Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

In these two forums:

_http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/main-lowcarb-lobby/723352-heart-pounding-ketosis.html
_http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4504003

some people reported having their heart rate accelerated while on ketosis. Most of the comments are just stupid though, so I don't think it's worth the read. However, one poster mentioned the possibility of a lack in magnesium and/or potassium during the transition period. This was mentioned in one of the papers we linked to earlier. I'll see if I can find the quote. The only "supplements" they gave to people were potassium and sodium (just eat more salt for that!).

There is also this: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=90

Any events that draw excessive fluid out of the body—including excessive sweating, diarrhea, overuse of diuretics (including caffeine-containing beverages), poor water intake, or adherence to a ketogenic diet—can increase the need for potassium.

Since potassium functions in close cooperation with sodium, imbalanced intake of salt (sodium chloride) can also increase a person's need for potassium. Higher amounts of potassium are also needed by persons with high blood pressure.

In this article they mention potassium and calcium again: http://www.livestrong.com/article/554837-sodium-potassium-and-the-ketogenic-diet/#ixzz247AzC1U8

Sodium and Potassium Supplements

If your ketogenic diet does not supply adequate sodium and potassium levels, supplements can provide what your body is missing. A portioned serving of bouillon can work as a sodium supplement, taken apart from general meals. However, maintaining levels of sodium is not as difficult in the ketogenic diet as maintaining potassium intake. While sources of potassium include meats and fish, the cooking process eliminates much of the potassium content. Potassium bicarbonate supplements, taken daily, amend lack of potassium.

 

[truth seeker]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Is there anyone willing to write a bone-broth recipe for a kitchen dummy? I see Kniall has one here but am still a bit confused as it's lamb, there was supposedly also a recipe in DCM#15, but can't buy it because of some bug in the forgotten PW process (will write you).

Try here.

My recipe is bones (any kind but ones with connective tissue are preferred as they add more nutrients and produce a more gelatinous broth), water to cover and boil - I don't use vinegar as I found I was reacting to it.

If you're cooking on a stovetop with fresh ingredients 3 hours is good. If frozen 4 hours. All cooking is done on very low heat (as low as I can get it without the fire going out). For the stovetop version, if you find that your water is getting low, add more. Make sure to keep an eye on this every so often (20 minutes)

When it's done, skim off any scum (the frothy stuff that can float at the top). You may also want to pass the broth through a sieve to get rid of the bones and any excess stuff.

Add salt to taste after cooking.

Kinds of meat and bones I use are lamb shanks, pork hocks work great, pigs feet should be really good as well, and beef marrow bones. I find that pork makes a richer broth in general as well as lamb so I use those way more than beef bones. I may actually try a mixture of beef and pork or lamb some time soon.

You can also add in some extra fat at that point if you want or leave it for individual servings. A really good broth looks like gelatin when it's cold. Sometimes I get a looser gelatin which means it wasn't cooked long enough or there wasn't enough connective tissue. As you become more proficient in making it, you'll begin to get a good feel as to what it should look like when it's hot. The best ones I've made have a nice creamy sort of texture to it - sort o a stew consistency as opposed to a thinner broth. Hope that helps.

 

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This was mentioned in one of the papers we linked to earlier. I'll see if I can find the quote.

Here it is (from Ketogenic diets and physical performance. It is a very interesting paper, by the way. You have to ignore some of the comments and the conclusions, because in some cases the diet consisted on turkey and lean meats, but overall, it gives a pretty good overview of the results, talks about the flaws in studies that claim that a low-carb diet is bad for physical performance, and gives interesting details about the Inuit diet. It's worth it and very easy to read IMO.

Anyway, about potassium, calcium and adaptation:

Resolving the performance paradox

There are three factors that can help us explain the paradox presented by studies showing superior performance with high carbohydrate diets versus the present author's two studies noted above.

Adaptation

The most obvious of these is the time allotted (or not) for keto-adaptation. In this context, the prescient observation of Schwatka (that adaptation to "a diet of reindeer meat" takes 2–3 weeks) says it all. None of the comparative low-carbohydrate versus high-carbohydrate studies done in support of the carbohydrate loading hypothesis sustained the low carbohydrate diet for more than 2 weeks [5], and most (including the classic report of Christensen and Hansen [2]) maintained their low-carbohydrate diets for 7 days or less.

There are to date no studies that carefully examine the optimum length of this keto-adapataion period, but it is clearly longer than one week and likely well advanced within 3–4 weeks. The process does not appear to happen any faster in highly trained athletes than in overweight or untrained individuals. This adaptation process also appears to require consistent adherence to carbohydrate restriction, as people who intermittently consume carbohydrates while attempting a ketogenic diet report subjectively reduced exercise tolerance.

Sodium and potassium

The second factor differentiating the author's studies from many others is optimized mineral nutriture, which has benefits for both cardiovascular reserve in the short term and preservation of lean body mass and function over longer time periods. The Inuit people lived much of the year on coastal ice (which is partially desalinated sea water), and much of their food consisted of soup made with meat in a broth from this brackish source of water. When they went inland to hunt, they traditionally added caribou blood (also a rich source of sodium) to their soup. With these empirically derived techniques, the Inuit culture had adapted the available resources to optimize their intakes of both sodium and potassium.

When meat is baked, roasted, or broiled; or when it is boiled but the broth discarded, potassium initially present in the meat is lost, making it more difficult to maintain potassium balance in the absence of fruits and vegetables. Because our research subjects were accustomed to eating meat, fish, and poultry prepared as something other than soup, we chose to give them most of their sodium separately as bouillon and a modest additional supplement of potassium as potassium bicarbonate. With these supplements maintaining daily intakes for sodium at 3–5 g/d and total potassium at 2–3 g/d, our adult subjects were able to effectively maintain their circulatory reserve (ie, allowing vasodilatation during submaximal exercise) and effective nitrogen balance with functional tissue preservation.

[...]

Normally, nitrogen and potassium gains or losses are closely correlated, as they both are contained in lean tissue. Interestingly, the authors noted that the protein only diet subjects were losing nitrogen but gaining potassium. As noted in a rebuttal letter published soon after this report [19], this anomaly occurred because the authors assumed the potassium intake of their subjects based upon handbook values for raw turkey, not recognizing that half of this potassium was being discarded in the unconsumed broth. Deprived of this potassium (and also limited in their salt intake), these subjects were unable to benefit from the dietary protein provided and lost lean tissue. Also worthy of note, although this study was effectively refuted by a well-designed metabolic ward study published 3 years later [20], this "Turkey Study" continues to be quoted as an example of the limitations of low carbohydrate weight loss diets.

That's all I could find so far. Perhaps some people need a bit of potassium as a supplement at the beginning, during the transition period? Not sure. But one thing that seems to be essential is the bone broth!! :P

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have noticed that when I have an increased heart rate (like in the morning/during exercise etc), I can sense my heart beat stronger and faster compared to before the diet. For what it's worth, here is some general info: _http://www.nsbri.org/humanphysspace/focus2/bpflo.html

Flow through a blood vessel is determined by two factors: (1 ) the force that pushes the blood through the vessel, and (2) the resistance of the vessel to the blood flow. Ordinarily, the rate of blood flow is measured in milliliters or liters per minute (ml/min or l/min). The blood flow in the entire human circulation is about 5000 ml/min at rest in an average sized adult, but may be 5-6 times as great during heavy exercise when the body needs more oxygen to fuel that exercise. The amount of blood pumped by the heart in one minute is called the cardiac output.

It is important to note that the flow of blood in the body is directly influenced by gravity. When a person is standing, gravity helps pull the blood downward to the lower extremities. Without gravity, blood tends to remain closer to the heart. The force of gravity also makes it more difficult for the blood to flow upward to return to the heart and lungs for more oxygen. Our bodies have evolved to deal with the ever-present downward force of gravity; our leg muscles function as secondary pumps to help in the process of venous return which is blood flow back to the heart, also referred to as cardiac input). During walking or other leg movements, the muscles contract, forcing blood up through the veins of the calf toward the heart. The valves in the veins are arranged so that blood flows only in one direction (Figure 10). This mechanism effectively counteracts the force of gravity.

Maybe once the organs, limbs, etc. get used to a more powerful fuel, the regulation of blood flow throughout the body may become better, enabling a person to move around and do her/his activities "against gravity" with less effort.

And interestingly, here we can read _http://www.coconutketones.com/pdfs/Veech%202004_therapeutic_implications.pdf:

Secondly, when perfused with glucose alone, there was consistent glycogen breakdown, whereas with addition of ketones, insulin or the combination, glycogen synthesis occurred. Addition of either ketones or insulin, increased intracellular [glucose] and the glycolytic intermediates in the first half of the glycolytic pathway from 2 to 8 fold. Thirdly, addition of either ketones or insulin leads to an increase in the measurable
hydraulic work of the heart, but a net decrease in the rate of glycolysis. Associated with the increase in hydraulic work and decrease in glycolytic rate addition of ketones or insulin increased the free cytosolic [ATP]/[ADP] [Pi] ratio three to five fold and a similar change in the phosphocreatine]/[creatine] ratio showing that both ketones or insulin increased the energy of the phosphorylation state of heart significantly compared to perfusion with glucose alone. These data clearly show that addition of either ketone bodies or insulin, markedly improved the energy status of working perfused heart. How ketone bodies could increase the hydraulic efficiency of heart by 28% could not be explained by the changes in the glycolytic pathway alone, but rather by the changes that were induced in mitochondrial ATP production by ketone body metabolism.

So a ketogenic diet can lead to a more efficient-working heart. Nothing new perhaps, but maybe it's worth mentioning.

---

By the way, in the beginning I also noticed some muscle-aches in my legs and arms during transition. Potassium helped with that, but I'm also thinking that a bone broth would probably be better!

 

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

My recipe is bones (any kind but ones with connective tissue are preferred as they add more nutrients and produce a more gelatinous broth), water to cover and boil - I don't use vinegar as I found I was reacting to it.

If you're cooking on a stovetop with fresh ingredients 3 hours is good. If frozen 4 hours. All cooking is done on very low heat (as low as I can get it without the fire going out). For the stovetop version, if you find that your water is getting low, add more. Make sure to keep an eye on this every so often (20 minutes)

When it's done, skim off any scum (the frothy stuff that can float at the top). You may also want to pass the broth through a sieve to get rid of the bones and any excess stuff.

Add salt to taste after cooking.

We use a pressure coocker here. It takes about 1 hour and a half. We drop the bones in the pot and a piece of fat stew meat (optional), cover with water (leaving about an inch of water on top of the bones), add salt and pepper, close the lid, et voilà. Some of us add extra lard on the hot broth. We don't skim anything off. We just remove the bones. An option for those who don't like the "scum" is to use a blender once it cools down a bit, and it turns into a creamy broth.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Some sources say that consuming coconut oil can have this effect, depending upon the amount and the person. It may affect metabolic rate.

Whitecoast, apart from what others have said, I personally try to think about this experiment in terms of what our ancestors might have eaten. It is obvious that if they lived most of our evolution in cold weather, coconuts couldn't have been available. A lot of people can't tolerate it, which to me says a lot about a specific food, even when I don't perceive any big effect. Bad idea al around, IMO. Even if you hadn't eaten "poison", starting to eat many carbs (or any carbs at all except for tiny portions of lettuce or something with almost 0 carbs on it might also signal to your body that it's suddenly Summer. It's a total confusion for your metabolism and against the purpose of the experiment.

I suggest you read all the papers we've been sharing before experimenting. This has been said over and over, and it's not a joke. The way you broke the fast shows that you don't really understand the very basic concept (4:1 or 3:1 ratio of fat and protein).

I'm not quite sure who is saying what to whom here -- :) -- but that is a good point. Whether or not paleolithic humans consumed coconut (in regions where it was available), coconut oil is a processed food that I doubt was available, and for experimental purposes it might be better to stick with unprocessed foods that are similar to what was available. In any case, "warm feelings" from consuming coconut oil may confuse the results.

There seem to be a disproportionate number of people here in the forum that are intolerant of coconut oil compared to what I have been finding when I search elsewhere. It might be that people here are just more observant; I don't know. MCTs do metabolize more easily than LCTs, and from what I have seen from searching, a lot of people may feel a difference. Here is an article that talks about MCTs: _http://www.nutritionreview.org/library/mcts.php . I have not checked this article against its references, but it appears consistent with the research papers I have read. Of note is that MCTs enter the inner mitochondrial area more readily than LCTs. I believe the other article (that I have lost track of in the flood of links that roll by every day) also talked about effects on the heart.

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Is there anyone willing to write a bone-broth recipe for a kitchen dummy? I see Kniall has one here but am still a bit confused as it's lamb, there was supposedly also a recipe in DCM#15, but can't buy it because of some bug in the forgotten PW process (will write you).

Try here.



Kinds of meat and bones I use are lamb shanks, pork hocks work great, pigs feet should be really good as well, and beef marrow bones. I find that pork makes a richer broth in general as well as lamb so I use those way more than beef bones. I may actually try a mixture of beef and pork or lamb some time soon.

You can also add in some extra fat at that point if you want or leave it for individual servings. A really good broth looks like gelatin when it's cold. Sometimes I get a looser gelatin which means it wasn't cooked long enough or there wasn't enough connective tissue. As you become more proficient in making it, you'll begin to get a good feel as to what it should look like when it's hot. The best ones I've made have a nice creamy sort of texture to it - sort o a stew consistency as opposed to a thinner broth. Hope that helps.

Totally, pigs feet are the one. Veryy cheap too. Last night I put 2 of them in the slow cooker and left cooking overnight. They made an absolutely fantastic broth!
After cooling down in the fridge, it is just a big pan of jelly, very thick and solid. I just scoop some out into a glass, microwave for ~40 seconds, add salt and I'm good to go. It truly is a miracle food.

Another little report on my experiences too. Things have been much better today. Woke up at 6, breakfast at 6:30 consisting of 2 sausages, fried green beans and half a glass of bone broth.

I worked on the volunteer construction site from 9am-4pm with only a light lunch of 2 scrambled eggs (I only even ate half of it - think eggs are out for me too as I had a mild stomach ache). I was working all day under the hot sun lifting heavy bricks, pushing wheel barrows, laying concrete for the foundation of the houses etc. Despite this, I felt great afterwards and went straight to the gym after finishing.

Did heavy bench presses, very heavy deadlifts and a couple of other minor exercises in the gym, then went straight into their cold shower room (it's great! blasts you from all angles with freezing cold water) for about 5 minutes. I then had a couple mile uphill bike ride home up some very steep hills. Despite all this, I felt fantastic when I got in with energy still pumping through me :D . I felt so energetic and good that I had to work to try and sober myself up and come on the forum.

Broke my 'fast' at 7 (a little late I know, but I was very hungry) with a big glass bone broth, a little salami, lettuce, and quite a huge amount of beef cracklings from freshly rendered tallow. These things are just too delicious and I still have a rock in my stomach now from eating too much.

Still I feel the experiment is coming along nicely, and I am very excited. It's actually quite hard to handle this mental state, I feel like a child on christmas eve after 2 cups of coffee! I could certainly get used to it though

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

We use a pressure coocker here. It takes about 1 hour and a half. We drop the bones in the pot and a piece of fat stew meat (optional), cover with water (leaving about an inch of water on top of the bones), add salt and pepper, close the lid, et voilà. Some of us add extra lard on the hot broth. We don't skim anything off. We just remove the bones.

Same here! My bone broth actually turned into pudding in the fridge! I guess it must be the gelatin.

But, what I did differently is adding salt after the cooking was done, since I read in the DCM magazine that adding salt during the cooking process could prevent nutrients from being released?

 

[paralleloscope]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

My recipe is bones (any kind but ones with connective tissue are preferred as they add more nutrients and produce a more gelatinous broth), water to cover and boil - I don't use vinegar as I found I was reacting to it.

If you're cooking on a stovetop with fresh ingredients 3 hours is good. If frozen 4 hours. All cooking is done on very low heat (as low as I can get it without the fire going out). For the stovetop version, if you find that your water is getting low, add more. Make sure to keep an eye on this every so often (20 minutes)

When it's done, skim off any scum (the frothy stuff that can float at the top). You may also want to pass the broth through a sieve to get rid of the bones and any excess stuff.

Add salt to taste after cooking.

We use a pressure coocker here. It takes about 1 hour and a half. We drop the bones in the pot and a piece of fat stew meat (optional), cover with water (leaving about an inch of water on top of the bones), add salt and pepper, close the lid, et voilà. Some of us add extra lard on the hot broth. We don't skim anything off. We just remove the bones. An option for those who don't like the "scum" is to use a blender once it cools down a bit, and it turns into a creamy broth.

So marrow bones are in for the full ride? thanks for the write up.

 

[truth seeker]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

We use a pressure coocker here. It takes about 1 hour and a half. We drop the bones in the pot and a piece of fat stew meat (optional), cover with water (leaving about an inch of water on top of the bones), add salt and pepper, close the lid, et voilà. Some of us add extra lard on the hot broth. We don't skim anything off. We just remove the bones. An option for those who don't like the "scum" is to use a blender once it cools down a bit, and it turns into a creamy broth.

Yeah, I leave the scum as well but figured it might freak some out. The blender idea is good!

I also used to use a pressure cooker but it broke so I'm back to the old fashioned way - in fact I'm making a lamb shank one now. When it's done, perhaps I'll post a pic if it looks good. :P

Regarding the palpitations, I've noticed them over the past 6(?) months or so but hadn't linked them to smoking - then again, I'm a chain smoker :). They're very subtle and over quickly. I'll try and see if I can narrow it down. So far I've been thinking that it's the heart getting used to changes.

What's been happening since I've increased the fat is that my brain sometimes feels... tired? I'm not sure how to describe this sensation. While my body isn't tired at all and my thinking is clear, yesterday I had to take 2 naps. It's almost as if my brain needs to recharge or something so I'm thinking that it may be getting used to the increase in fuel. Today it was much milder and passed quickly so we'll see what happens.

Added: Can't keep up with this thread!

Totally, pigs feet are the one. Veryy cheap too. Last night I put 2 of them in the slow cooker and left cooking overnight. They made an absolutely fantastic broth!
After cooling down in the fridge, it is just a big pan of jelly, very thick and solid. I just scoop some out into a glass, microwave for ~40 seconds, add salt and I'm good to go. It truly is a miracle food.

Yep! I scored some pigs feet 2 weeks ago and haven't tried them out yet, but I think that will make an excellent broth. They are super cheap as well.

 

[truth seeker]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So marrow bones are in for the full ride? thanks for the write up.

Yeps, all/any bones are - you want all the nutrients from the bones in the broth. You can have meat in there as well, that way, you don't have to worry about cooking anything separately. A one pot meal!

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...My recipe is bones (any kind but ones with connective tissue are preferred as they add more nutrients and produce a more gelatinous broth), water to cover and boil - I don't use vinegar as I found I was reacting to it.

If you're cooking on a stovetop with fresh ingredients 3 hours is good. If frozen 4 hours. All cooking is done on very low heat (as low as I can get it without the fire going out). For the stovetop version, if you find that your water is getting low, add more. Make sure to keep an eye on this every so often (20 minutes)

When it's done, skim off any scum (the frothy stuff that can float at the top). You may also want to pass the broth through a sieve to get rid of the bones and any excess stuff.

Add salt to taste after cooking...

That is similar to how I have been making it for the last 6 months or so -- cover with water, simmer, and strain. Any salt goes in afterward. I use a crock pot, though, and simmer for around 18-24 hours. I have experimented with shorter cooking times, but it didn't turn out as well. The longer cooking time seems to produce a richer taste, which could signal greater nutrient content. Even longer times start to evaporate off the liquid (but is what's left ever rich!) The time can, however, depend on the particular bones you use. I tried try adding some apple cider vinegar the last time I made it, and it seemed to produce an even richer broth. I didn't have any reaction to it, fortunately.

The only bones I have are from grass-fed lamb shank and beef ribs. That is a problem we are going to have to work on.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...We use a pressure coocker here. It takes about 1 hour and a half. We drop the bones in the pot and a piece of fat stew meat (optional), cover with water (leaving about an inch of water on top of the bones), add salt and pepper, close the lid, et voilà. Some of us add extra lard on the hot broth. We don't skim anything off. We just remove the bones. An option for those who don't like the "scum" is to use a blender once it cools down a bit, and it turns into a creamy broth.

I have been tempted to try a pressure cooker, but doesn't it work by raising the boiling point? If the cooking temperature is higher the broth might lose some of its nutrients, or so I have been told. I guess it would depend on how much it raises it.

 

[hesperides]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I never ate much veggies nor fruits in my life, and when I reluctantly did it was mostly for good health maintenance purposes.... Since one year I´ve been eating mostly green beans, beets, celery, artichoke and fennel, all of them in few quantity, all kind of green salads nearly every night and, don´t hit me, tomatoes, peppers and onions. Now and then I also indulge in a little piece of fresh organic homemade goat cheese and lastly even some occasional red wine or coffee, after 2,5 years staying free from it. Yes I know, I know... I sometimes wish my body could send me an alert making me aware what feels right or not to my health. The fact that doesn´t help much either is as I made the food reintroduction after two months, as described in the Ultra mind solution, I wasn´t able to detect any discomfort. Also, I never suffered constipation, congestion but some gas when starting the diet that immediately subsided and don´t have to lose weight either. So either I´m the typical silent yeast sufferer or something else is going on. So I guess I´ll start all over again staying at least six months away from any body stressor food.

Why should I hit you when your body is doing it for me? Don't complain or seek solutions from the network here unless you really ARE CLEAN and not hiding stuff like this. Why should we spend our time and energy trying to help you when you obviously aren't getting it and are contributing to your own suffering?

In my post I forgot mentioning I´m beating myself up with the tobacco issue I have and wonder why nobody in this thread seems to cope with the same issue, which is also why I´m beating myself up :) , lacking feedback, and somehow I believe it to be at least one of the main culprit of my arthrosis issue. I´m aware of the "Is smoking good to your health" thread, but as far as I read, tobacco issues that are discussed there seems having more to do with its price, quality, availability, brands, taste, etc. than its related effect on the health. What happens to me since on KD is I steadily increased my cigarettes consumption as it felt so good and went from 20 up to 28 cig/day and still haven´t found the will to lower it. Why I´m worried about it is due to the throat aching when waking up in the morning together with ears itching that I sense are related, which already started 12 years ago. Hence, I guess my immune system must be overloaded at this stage.

The reason nobody is having the same problem is for the same reason you are still in a mess eating and drinking the crap you have listed. The main culprits in your "arthrosis issue" are things you are still eating and drinking and you are clearly NOT on the KD program as we are defining/discussing it. Did you read Gimpy's MS complication thread where it was pointed out that coffee has the same effect as gluten? Are you aware that casein has a similar effect as gluten? That tomatoes and peppers are the chief triggers of arthritic conditions? Do you keep up with the articles we publish in the health and wellness section on SOTT?

As has been said before, if you don't understand something, don't even do it. Knowledge does protect, but a little knowledge, wrongly or ineptly applied is worse than no knowledge at all.

Ok, I´m sincerely sorry for the noise I´ve been spreading here through a somewhat covered assumption I´d know better than others what feels right or not to my body. I´ve been participating very few here and evidence shows me that one of my pending lesson is to trust and share before things are getting distorted and returning to me like an unwelcoming boomerang.

Yes I do read many articles and books and will now read Gimpsy´s MS complication thread.

I see that for once I write here, I´ve got the right feedback -just in time-, thank you Laura, and will follow this time your advices given above instead of some of those "know-it-all" tango dancers in my head . Your statement "you obviously aren't getting it and are contributing to your own suffering" is sinking slowly in my mind and I will think with a hammer about it and put it in action.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So, for the heart thing, sounds like it's bone broth regularly for potassium with maybe a small bit supplemented, and possibly a tad of magnesium. Okay, I can do that. Just took one. I'll continue for a few days and report back.