Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Some sources say that consuming coconut oil can have this effect, depending upon the amount and the person. It may affect metabolic rate.

Whitecoast, apart from what others have said, I personally try to think about this experiment in terms of what our ancestors might have eaten. It is obvious that if they lived most of our evolution in cold weather, coconuts couldn't have been available. A lot of people can't tolerate it, which to me says a lot about a specific food, even when I don't perceive any big effect. Bad idea al around, IMO. Even if you hadn't eaten "poison", starting to eat many carbs (or any carbs at all except for tiny portions of lettuce or something with almost 0 carbs on it might also signal to your body that it's suddenly Summer. It's a total confusion for your metabolism and against the purpose of the experiment.

I suggest you read all the papers we've been sharing before experimenting. This has been said over and over, and it's not a joke. The way you broke the fast shows that you don't really understand the very basic concept (4:1 or 3:1 ratio of fat and protein).

 

[Joe]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

For those of you guys having noticeably increased heartbeats, are you still taking coconut oil?

I don't use it, right now all I'm using with cooking is bacon grease or butter.

I've noticed the increased or "pounding" heartbeat sometimes when I smoke.

 

[Joe]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have a question though- maybe I've missed it but is the idea to do this IF thing on a continual basis or is it something to be done over the long term for one or two days a week or is it just a once off thing for a couple of weeks ?

The fast is mainly to get you in to full ketosis, a 'running start' if you like, but it may not be necessary for everyone. I didn't need to fast, just reduced my protein way down and tried eating more fat, that was a bad idea because since I wasn't burning fat as energy, it was kind of pointless to eat it, and it just made me feel sick. So you can try just reducing your intake for a day and then check with the ketone sticks.

Having said that, you might find once you get into burning fats as your primary source of energy, you feel like not eating for a day or only eating one meal or something. Who knows.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Just report to my heart beat faster these three last days and I also have this sensation of my brain which is "bigger" and "hot". And I am very hot in my body too. But we have a very hot weather here, so I guess it could be the reason. A good time to use the cold bath as I do each day... ;)...

Some sources say that consuming coconut oil can have this effect, depending upon the amount and the person. It may affect metabolic rate. I came across an article about it just this last week that addressed the metabolic aspect, but I haven't been able to locate it again.

You can find quite a few comments about coconut oil, metabolism, and feeling warm/hot by Googling. How trustworthy most of these sources are is not clear to me, but I have experienced the "warming" effect myself. Also I have been consuming more coconut oil myself lately, and my perceived body temperature (which tends to run low) seems to have improved, and I seem to have a bit more energy. I am interpreting that as a good thing--I actually feel better. I haven't recently done any sort of elimination test, however, to see if it is really coconut oil that is causing it. I have been making/consuming bone broth for a number of months now, so I don't think that is what is doing it.

For reference, I am also continuing on my ketogenic diet, limiting my food intake to an 8-hour window but not doing anything beyond that in the way of IF or exercise (and still having skin problems, especially if the carbs drop well below ~40 g/d). I want to have some tests done before I try anything more, and it is going to be at least a few more weeks while I change insurance plans and establish with a new doctor.

Thank you Megan for your answer and the advise about Googling. I can only add that I do not eat more coconut oil than usual, but maybe it affects me differently now that I reduced my consumption of proteins and still increased that of fat for approximately 1 month. So I will maybe not change the consumption of coconut oil until have seen how my body works when the weather will less warm. And I shall inform at this moment if necessary to lower the quantity or not.

Some sources say that consuming coconut oil can have this effect, depending upon the amount and the person. It may affect metabolic rate.

Whitecoast, apart from what others have said, I personally try to think about this experiment in terms of what our ancestors might have eaten. It is obvious that if they lived most of our evolution in cold weather, coconuts couldn't have been available. A lot of people can't tolerate it, which to me says a lot about a specific food, even when I don't perceive any big effect. Bad idea al around, IMO. Even if you hadn't eaten "poison", starting to eat many carbs (or any carbs at all except for tiny portions of lettuce or something with almost 0 carbs on it might also signal to your body that it's suddenly Summer. It's a total confusion for your metabolism and against the purpose of the experiment.

I suggest you read all the papers we've been sharing before experimenting. This has been said over and over, and it's not a joke. The way you broke the fast shows that you don't really understand the very basic concept (4:1 or 3:1 ratio of fat and protein).

Thank you Ailén, I will reconsider my consumption of coconut oil, because it makes sense than coconuts couldn't have been available for our ancestors. Stay closer as we can than "paleo-diet", with animals fat. I get it.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I, too, have noted a bit of "fluttery speed" to the heart at odd moments. Nothing like the palpitations I used to have, but yeah, it's there. I suspect it is because the heart is used to having such bad fuel and now it gets its preferred fuel and it's have to have a carburator adjustment or something.

 

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've noticed the increased or "pounding" heartbeat sometimes when I smoke.

This, Don Genaro's and Data's remark about needing to smoke less reminded me of something on The Polyvagal Theory. I can't find the exact quote right now, but maybe someone else can find it. FWIW, as I understand it, the smart vagus is insulated and coated by a myelin sheath, which is composed mainly of fat. I wonder if, with the KD, myelin becomes more efficient somehow (healthier fat in bigger quantities, free of toxins -which normally get accumulated in the fat-), and therefore allows for the vagus nerve to do a better job. If so, could it be that the body naturally starts producing more acetylcholine? This might be waaay oversimplified of off, but I thought I'd just trow it out there.

The higher (right) branch of the vagus nerve also regulates our heartbeat. I noticed the same as Laura, and not being related to smoking in particularly.

I, too, have noted a bit of "fluttery speed" to the heart at odd moments. Nothing like the palpitations I used to have, but yeah, it's there. I suspect it is because the heart is used to having such bad fuel and now it gets its preferred fuel and it's have to have a carburator adjustment or something.

And this is what is a bit puzzling and might contradict completely my idea above. Because acetylcholine is usually known to LOWER the heartbeat, not raise it. So maybe it has nothing to do with acetylcholine at all, and it's different for everybody depending on how our hearts have this "carburator adjustment". I don't know. Any ideas? I can't explain why some people would have the "pounding heartbeat" when smoking...

 

[Beau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've noticed the increased or "pounding" heartbeat sometimes when I smoke.

I'm a non-smoker.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've noticed the increased or "pounding" heartbeat sometimes when I smoke.

This, Don Genaro's and Data's remark about needing to smoke less reminded me of something on The Polyvagal Theory. I can't find the exact quote right now, but maybe someone else can find it. FWIW, as I understand it, the smart vagus is insulated and coated by a myelin sheath, which is composed mainly of fat. I wonder if, with the KD, myelin becomes more efficient somehow (healthier fat in bigger quantities, free of toxins -which normally get accumulated in the fat-), and therefore allows for the vagus nerve to do a better job. If so, could it be that the body naturally starts producing more acetylcholine? This might be waaay oversimplified of off, but I thought I'd just trow it out there.

The higher (right) branch of the vagus nerve also regulates our heartbeat. I noticed the same as Laura, and not being related to smoking in particularly.

I, too, have noted a bit of "fluttery speed" to the heart at odd moments. Nothing like the palpitations I used to have, but yeah, it's there. I suspect it is because the heart is used to having such bad fuel and now it gets its preferred fuel and it's have to have a carburator adjustment or something.

And this is what is a bit puzzling and might contradict completely my idea above. Because acetylcholine is usually known to LOWER the heartbeat, not raise it. So maybe it has nothing to do with acetylcholine at all, and it's different for everybody depending on how our hearts have this "carburator adjustment". I don't know. Any ideas? I can't explain why some people would have the "pounding heartbeat" when smoking...

I smoke each day, and I did not noticed my heart beated stronger at the specific moment I was smoking. FWIW...
And I do used to have palpitations too, before, but not anymore. It is not the same thing at all.

 

[Cyre2067]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

FWIW I quit smoking when I restricted my carbs down to less than 20g's/day. The smoking made me nauseous and gave me headaches. It also seems as if my body is becoming more and more sensitive. Backing away from orgasm altogether has become my new thing because I became much more aware of the neurochemical roller-coaster associated with orgasm.

I'm still eating a lot of protein however, probably 50/50 fat-protein, my main foods are a lot of nuts and fatty-deli meats. So I'm gonna get some grass-fed bones for broth and try that for dinz. I have been eating much less as well.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Quick question: Are people doing any bone broth or fat while on the fast? I was eating a tablespoon or two of coconut oil here and there on my last fast just to take the edge off and on my first fast I had a bowl of bone broth. My thinking was that it would help to encourage ketosis. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking, though. Any thoughts?

Also, just wanted to give a big thanks for all the digging and researching Laura and Ailen are doing. I'm not fully caught up on all the posted studies yet, but this reading is incredibly revealing :)

 

[Alcarohtare]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

From today i decided to go deeper with ketosis, so i skipped the protein and ate only cold bone broth and beef cracklings. It seems to go very smooth, without any problem. I'll see if i could do it for a week or so and then put in meals just a bit of meat/fish since i'm aware i ate way too much protein.
It is more inspiring to go with absolute discipline when so many of you are experimenting with it right now.
As for smoking, i've done with it after a month of exaggeration with the, i guess, one of strongest tobacco. Just wanted to try its influence on brain chemistry, metabolism and body overall. I can just say it definetly isn't good for my system...

I'm lucky my dentist got rid me from tar deposits from my teeth. :P

 

[loreta]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Quick question: Are people doing any bone broth or fat while on the fast? I was eating a tablespoon or two of coconut oil here and there on my last fast just to take the edge off and on my first fast I had a bowl of bone broth. My thinking was that it would help to encourage ketosis. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking, though. Any thoughts?

Also, just wanted to give a big thanks for all the digging and researching Laura and Ailen are doing. I'm not fully caught up on all the posted studies yet, but this reading is incredibly revealing :)

I agree... I started to read this thread that goes so fast! I am always very far away, I have to many things to read. But all this information is magnificent. And I love to learn!

I have palpitations me too, sometimes, and not when smoking and I am a heavy smoker.... I like the idea that our heart is changing gears with this new diet (i did not start fasting but I eat not much, i eat like my mother used to say "like a bird".) When I will be much informed I will start fasting. Thanks for everything!

 

[Psalehesost]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Quick question: Are people doing any bone broth or fat while on the fast? I was eating a tablespoon or two of coconut oil here and there on my last fast just to take the edge off and on my first fast I had a bowl of bone broth. My thinking was that it would help to encourage ketosis. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking, though. Any thoughts?

Also, just wanted to give a big thanks for all the digging and researching Laura and Ailen are doing. I'm not fully caught up on all the posted studies yet, but this reading is incredibly revealing :)

A bunch of people (including me) are having fat as-needed; that is, if hungry and/or lacking in energy.

Not as much, in my case, as on regular days, but however much is felt to be enough. What really matters seems indeed, according to what's reported thus far, to be zero carbs and near-zero protein on "fasting" days. (I also have - literally - a tiny bite of meat, thinking the tiny bit of protein might help the body get going digesting and using the fat. I read once in, I think, the Life Without Bread thread the idea that protein has such a role. Not completely sure about this, but doesn't seem to have a negative impact. Don't currently have bones for broth, where I think bone broth would likewise contain a tiny bit of protein, and likewise not enough to count glucose-wise.).

 

[paralleloscope]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Obviously, the first is "knowledge protects." This can be looked at in a number of ways. Firstly, learning that you can establish neuroprotection via diet is actually HUGE if you think about it. Considering all the theories about mind control waves being beamed, micro-waves, other EM frequencies, etc., just imagine if you diet gave you a good percentage of protection from all that nonsense?

According to EMF advices from the local EHS/ES community connected doctor; it is prescribed to eat healthy fats for the protection of cell membranes (haven't been able to reach her to get the papers she bases this on, nor have I found anything on it otherwise). In line with Ailen's speculation, the replacement of right fats and wild-DNA might be the factor that makes a cell resistant to contractions and free radical buildup from EMF exposure(see this for cell reactions).

I'm starting out to read the papers and have reduced protein, but won't do the right fat:protein ratio and longer IF stretches before ready. I've got into cold showers again (much easier when it's hot or after pushing weights). Also kicked a coffee relapse. Will probably join the experiment within the week.

Regarding food knowledge and recipes I'm rather dense, and need to have things cut out. I was at the butcher today, and he recommended to cook soup bones (not back bones as they have too much waste material?) for an hour, add more water, then an hour more cooking, then add herbs/garlic and only add the marrow bone just before serving because if the marrow got too much cooking it would produce a bad form and effect of the fat in it (he used an expression I can't remember, but described it as uncomfortable, sticky on the pallate). Is there anyone willing to write a bone-broth recipe for a kitchen dummy? I see Kniall has one here but am still a bit confused as it's lamb, there was supposedly also a recipe in DCM#15, but can't buy it because of some bug in the forgotten PW process (will write you).

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Quick question: Are people doing any bone broth or fat while on the fast? I was eating a tablespoon or two of coconut oil here and there on my last fast just to take the edge off and on my first fast I had a bowl of bone broth. My thinking was that it would help to encourage ketosis. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking, though. Any thoughts?

A bunch of people (including me) are having fat as-needed; that is, if hungry and/or lacking in energy.

Not as much, in my case, as on regular days, but however much is felt to be enough. What really matters seems indeed, according to what's reported thus far, to be zero carbs and near-zero protein on "fasting" days. (I also have - literally - a tiny bite of meat, thinking the tiny bit of protein might help the body get going digesting and using the fat. I read once in, I think, the Life Without Bread thread the idea that protein has such a role. Not completely sure about this, but doesn't seem to have a negative impact. Don't currently have bones for broth, where I think bone broth would likewise contain a tiny bit of protein, and likewise not enough to count glucose-wise.).

Thanks Psalehesost. I guess I should have thought about it before I posted because I remember now that some people aren't fasting completely and are only lowering food consumption considerably. That would imply that small amounts of fat and broth are permissable. Sorry for the noise (itchy post finger).

Just wanted to mention that I've been without any supplements for the last couple of days and am suffering no consequences. I would have thought that dropping magnesium would lead to leg cramps, as it has in the past, but I haven't even had a hint of one. I don't know if this will keep up or not. I think I might need some vitamin C periodically, but so far I don't seem to. I wish I could return some of these products, though - I'm sitting on hundreds of dollars in supplements here!