Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[A Jay]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just another article on sugar's addictive qualities - i don't think it's on sott and i'm not sure this study has been cited, i did check:

That's a good one for the database!

At first glance I thought, 'Oh wow. Well, we already knew this, but at least it's getting some press!"

But upon closer reading, I noticed these two lines:

Professor Selena Bartlett, a neuroscientist from the university's Institute of Health and Biomedical Innovation, says the research indicates that drugs used to treat nicotine addiction could be used to treat addiction to sugar.

"Our study found that Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved drugs like varenicline, a prescription medication trading as Champix which treats nicotine addiction, can work the same way when it comes to sugar cravings."

By selling nicotine addiction pills to the obese, pharmaceutical companies don't have to come up with any new formulas, and it opens up an entirely untapped market for what was likely a decreasingly profitable product (considering how the number of smokers goes down every year).

The study can be found here:

Excess sugar consumption has been shown to contribute directly to weight gain, thus contributing to the growing worldwide obesity epidemic. Interestingly, increased sugar consumption has been shown to repeatedly elevate dopamine levels in the nucleus accumbens (NAc), in the mesolimbic reward pathway of the brain similar to many drugs of abuse. We report that varenicline, an FDA-approved nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR) partial agonist that modulates dopamine in the mesolimbic reward pathway of the brain, significantly reduces sucrose consumption, especially in a long-term consumption paradigm. Similar results were observed with other nAChR drugs, namely mecamylamine and cytisine. Furthermore, we show that long-term sucrose consumption increases α4β2 * and decreases α6β2* nAChRs in the nucleus accumbens, a key brain region associated with reward. Taken together, our results suggest that nAChR drugs such as varenicline may represent a novel treatment strategy for reducing sugar consumption.

These vultures will never let a good 'epidemic' go to waste.

 

[T.C.]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

By selling nicotine addiction pills to the obese, pharmaceutical companies don't have to come up with any new formulas, and it opens up an entirely untapped market for what was likely a decreasingly profitable product (considering how the number of smokers goes down every year).

They go down even faster on Champix, since it's been linked to suicidal ideation

 

[Chad]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

By selling nicotine addiction pills to the obese, pharmaceutical companies don't have to come up with any new formulas, and it opens up an entirely untapped market for what was likely a decreasingly profitable product (considering how the number of smokers goes down every year).

They go down even faster on Champix, since it's been linked to suicidal ideation

A friend of mine took it - she continued to smoke, though from 10 to ~5, and is certainly in the group susceptible to the above. She said it made her 'feel funny'... That was 3-4 years ago and i'd read back then of it's side effects and told her so. Thankfully she just gave up on Chantix/Champix! (different brand names - one makes you a champion, the other is like chanting - what marketeers think up these names.. it'd be hilarious if it wasn't deadly).

 

[Astrocyte]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

We are experimenting with ketogenic diet since at least two years.

My spouse have MS, she were taking lots of medications but for the most, it only provided lots of secondary effects and little benefit. She was afflicted with constant chronic pain, mostly peripheral neuropathy, originating in the feets and hands and propagating upward toward brain.

Also afflicted by a chronic UTI firmly installed into both kidney, characterized by a diverse ecosystem of antibiotics resistant bacteria. Recuring lithiasis was present in one kidney. Urine was usually very basic, at the full end of the alkaline pH, lithiasis were mostly based on struvite (infection stone). This is common in advanced MS due to neurogenic bladder. Neurological damage is suspected coming from longterm use of Flagyl and Cypro antibiotics. Had lots of problem with C. difficile caused by antibiotics. So basically had a lot of problems and nothing seemed to improve...

Then, some time after removal of kidney stones, we began experimenting with ketogenic diet. To our great surprise, UTI disapeared completely after 10 days. It was not the first time kidney stone were removed. This time UTI was gone and hospital confirmed it (I was thinking our urine dipstick were past date). As soon that she eat carbs and loose ketogenic status, her urine start again to smell bad and urine dipstick show infection. So it seem bacteria are still there but completely numbed by presence of ketone bodies in urine. No return of lithiasis since two years. Urine pH is now mostly all the time at 6.5.

One immediate effect of ketogenic diet was complete disapearence of chronic pain, no more pain medication are taken. When slightiest amount of carbs are taken, pain start in the extremities and start to raise toward brain. We also discovered that even under ketogenic diet, there are a lot of food additive that seem to trigger peripheral neuropathy.

Also no more infection by C. albicans, this little bugger have caused great harm due to antibiotics, but now inexistent under keto diet.

It is hard to say if MS progress have slowed due to keto diet, but at least the mirriad of problems associated with MS are under control.

Also one thing to note, since doing keto diet, we grow more and more sensitive (intolerant) to the slightest qty of carb and food additive ingested. We begin to wonder if one day we will be able to only eat meat and fat...

We control ketone level both in blood and urine.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Astrocyte. That's quite impressive improvements your wife had. Just wondering what kind of fat you consume most on the ketogenic diet. Because someone can go into ketosis by just lowering carbs (below 40 to 50 grams net per day) and eat not so healthy fats. It's best to eat about 75% of daily calories from natural fed (e.g. grass-fed and finished beef) saturated animal fat - that's the healthiest.

 

[herondancer]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

One immediate effect of ketogenic diet was complete disapearence of chronic pain, no more pain medication are taken. When slightiest amount of carbs are taken, pain start in the extremities and start to raise toward brain. We also discovered that even under ketogenic diet, there are a lot of food additive that seem to trigger peripheral neuropathy.

Also no more infection by C. albicans, this little bugger have caused great harm due to antibiotics, but now inexistent under keto diet.

It is hard to say if MS progress have slowed due to keto diet, but at least the mirriad of problems associated with MS are under control.

That's remarkable Astrocyte! I'm sure yur wife is happy to be off all those medications. You've already figured out that a lot of food additives can cause problems. You may want to got another step and look for possible food sensitivities, such as eggs, milk and milk products or nuts. It's possible to do an elimination diet, or, there are blood tests that will give more precise results.

Continued success to your wife in managing her condition!

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hello Astrocyte,

Have you and your wife tried D-mannose?

_http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/04/28/d-mannose-uti-prevention.aspx

 

[Astrocyte]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just wondering what kind of fat you consume most on the ketogenic diet. Because someone can go into ketosis by just lowering carbs (below 40 to 50 grams net per day) and eat not so healthy fats. It's best to eat about 75% of daily calories from natural fed (e.g. grass-fed and finished beef) saturated animal fat - that's the healthiest.

Around 30g coconut fat, the rest 70g coming from vegetal source like avocado and animal source. We don't have the ressource to get grass feed animal meat.

You may want to got another step and look for possible food sensitivities, such as eggs, milk and milk products or nuts. It's possible to do an elimination diet, or, there are blood tests that will give more precise results.

We already try to id food sensitivities. FYI blood test for sensitivities have been banned in Quebec thanks to 'Collège des médecins du Québec' for obsure reasons. Our next step will probably be to try genotyping service like 23andme.

Have you and your wife tried D-mannose?

Yes, we tried it extensively before going ketogenic. Our conclusion is that it is useless, and may event agravate situation by feeding bacteria; D-mannose is a carb and can be metabolized by bacteria. We tried mostly every "conventional" nonconventional remedies for UTI like cranberry juice and many other things, nothing ever worked.

 

[DougEE]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

There is an interesting article on Dr Mercola's site that highlights Dr Ron Rosedale's views on a ketogenic diet:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/05/07/too-much-protein-triggers-aging-cancer.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20160507Z1&et_cid=DM104653&et_rid=1475640602

Here is his conlusion:

Beware: Ketogenic Diets Can Be High-Protein or High-Fat, But Only the Latter Is of True Benefit

Now, here’s where things might get confusing, because research3 has also shown that ketone body utilization drives tumor growth and metastasis. (Ketones are acids made by your body when it burns fat rather than carbohydrates as its primary fuel.) This finding appears to be completely contradictory to so many other studies that show a ketogenic diet effectively “starves” cancer. But there is an answer to this apparent contradiction, which Rosedale explains in his lecture.

“It isn’t ketogenesis, really, that we’re after,” he says. “It’s fat burning. They’re not the same. You can have a ketogenic diet by eating protein. It isn’t the ketones, necessarily, that give you the benefit, it’s the fact that you’re burning fat, and the ketones are a byproduct. So you have to specify if you’re going to [promote a] ketogenic diet that it’s a high fat ketogenic diet.

It’s really the burning of fat that’s of benefit. As a result, you’ll get ketones that your brain needs. They do good things too ... So a ketogenic diet is a good diet, but not because it’s ketogenic. It’s [good] because it’s an indication that you’re burning fat.”

The Ideal Diet? Think Low-Carb, Moderate-Protein, High-Fat

I believe it's absolutely crucial, no matter what type of cancer you're trying to address, to incorporate a high-fat ketogenic diet, meaning a diet high in healthy fats like avocado, coconut oil, butter, olive oil and macadamia nuts, low in net carbs (total carbs minus fiber), and moderate amounts of high quality protein, ideally no more than about 1 gram per kilo of lean body mass.

Such a diet, along with Peak Fasting can be easily integrated into whatever cancer treatment plan you decide to follow. More importantly, this kind of diet may be key for preventing cancer and other chronic diseases in the first place. It also appears to be key for longevity, and will help optimize your weight as well, since eating this way will help you convert from burning sugar to burning fat as your primary fuel.

My wife and I followed the Rosedale diet a few years ago and it really helped us to get off of gluten and sugar. He wasn't highlighting high-fat then but I do like his ideas.

 

[T.C.]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/05/07/too-much-protein-triggers-aging-cancer.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20160507Z1&et_cid=DM104653&et_rid=1475640602

Here is his conlusion:

It isn’t the ketones, necessarily, that give you the benefit...

[snip]

As a result, you’ll get ketones that your brain needs. They do good things too ...

Sounds like Dr Rosedale needs to make his mind up.

Have you read the thread, DougEE? Everything you quoted is covered quite extensively.

 

[DougEE]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So sorry for the noise.

 

[Astrocyte]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Beware: Ketogenic Diets Can Be High-Protein or High-Fat, But Only the Latter Is of True Benefit

It will be hard to produce ketone bodies with a diet high in protein, and such diet will produce tons of nitrogen compounds in blood and be hard on kidney. Also, diet high in protein increase the risk of rabbit starvation, also called protein poisoning.

Best is 80:20 (fat:protein) in energy ratio and regulate and adapt depending on frequent ketone controls.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/05/07/too-much-protein-triggers-aging-cancer.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20160507Z1&et_cid=DM104653&et_rid=1475640602

Here is his conlusion:

It isn’t the ketones, necessarily, that give you the benefit...

[snip]

As a result, you’ll get ketones that your brain needs. They do good things too ...

Sounds like Dr Rosedale needs to make his mind up.

I don't think there's a contradiction there. I took it that he's saying the primary benefit of a low carb diet is coming from being in a fat burning state, but that the brain needs ketones if it's not getting a steady intake of glucose from the diet.

Have you read the thread, DougEE? Everything you quoted is covered quite extensively.

So sorry for the noise.

I don't think it was noise, DougEE. I think it's good to have a reminder every once in awhile that a true ketogenic diet requires a moderate protein intake, especially considering how easy it is to drift into higher protein consumption when cutting carbs. And it is relatively new information that Rosedale is proposing it's not the ketones, per se, that are providing the benefit, but being in fat burning mode. Considering in issues like Alzheimer's and other neural system disorders, it seems the actual ketones are what is deriving the benefit (with people benefiting from any extra ketone production, even when not on a low carb diet), the fact that this isn't the case with cancer is quite interesting, IMO.

Beware: Ketogenic Diets Can Be High-Protein or High-Fat, But Only the Latter Is of True Benefit

It will be hard to produce ketone bodies with a diet high in protein, and such diet will produce tons of nitrogen compounds in blood and be hard on kidney. Also, diet high in protein increase the risk of rabbit starvation, also called protein poisoning.

Best is 80:20 (fat:protein) in energy ratio and regulate and adapt depending on frequent ketone controls.

While it's true that a diet that depends on protein as its main source of calories is harmful, from research here on the forum, the idea that the kidneys can't handle protein consumption above a certain level is largely a myth. It's based on studies that looked at people with compromised kidney function. There's no evidence that people with normal kidney function need to be concerned about protein consumption, AFAIK.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I agree with dugdeep, as he summarized the main points quite well. We've been stating that the best ketogenic diet is high fat, moderate protein, and low carb all along for all the reasons the research and personal experience/testimonials in this thread have covered. While there's no one size fits all or silver bullet ideal diet, the best one for humans has been shown to be a high fat (with only healthy fats), moderate protein, and low net carbs (below 40 to 50 grams max per day). As we've mentioned over and over again, it's also best to get the highest quality pastured/natural fed animal based food as much as possible (and whatever plant-based foods that are consumed should also be the highest quality)....

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I agree with dugdeep, as he summarized the main points quite well. We've been stating that the best ketogenic diet is high fat, moderate protein, and low carb all along for all the reasons the research and personal experience/testimonials in this thread have covered.

The article is an excellent review. We all have highlighted Dr. Rosedale research since the beginning. Here is the SOTT version with highlights, clarifications and further links:

Restricting your protein intake will help you live longer and improve your overall health
https://www.sott.net/article/317857-Restricting-your-protein-intake-will-help-you-live-longer-and-improve-your-overall-health

The article is really a must read :)