Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[whitecoast]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just because it doesn't gel doesn't mean that it's not good. So don't be throwing it out just because it doesn't gel.

Heavens, I wouldn't dream of it, Nienna Eluch! I actually prefer the gel largely for palatability reasons. It's kind of sloppy when I carry it around as lunch all day (especially with the fat in it) so the gel makes it easier to eat. And thanks for your tip Gawan - I usually slightly heat the broth if I have excessive water, to evaporate some of it off.

 

[Cyre2067]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just gonna toss my experiences into the proverbial hat. I've been doing the KD with IF for about 10 days... the transition was seamless; I was already on the paleo diet a la Primal Body Primal Mind. The only modifications I've made has been the introduction of more fat and less on the veges/nuts/fruits. I basically skip lunch every 4th day or so, which hasn't been taxing at all. I have a large dinner when I get home and then I'm set till morning.

The big thing I'm noticing is that my sleep patterns are fluxing... what I mean by that is that I have odd bursts, 6 hours sat night, 8 hours sun, 12 monday, 6 tues, etc. Sometimes I'll crash out in the afternoon and nap. Sometimes Ill pass out around 830 and wake up at 6... I never really know and I just go with it. I think I'm also have some moderate redistribution of body fat/muscle mass. I haven't lost any weight, but my meatsuit does seem a bit tighter. I also have a lot more clear headedness and emotional sharpness. Basically it's easier for me to think and my emotions are more tuned in.

It's odd because I'm finding it hard to be around people, especially crowds, as I can 'read' folks rather easily and I don't like being in other people's heads. I've become a bit more socially withdrawn.

I've had some dry skin issues, cracking lips, patchy elbows... nothing major, but it's worthy of mentioning since the timing is on point with the diet. My apartment itself has been pretty dry lately and it's been seriously humid outside here in the city, so I'm not sure if its me or the weather or some combination. I've been dousing myself with jojoba oil and using coconut oil on my lips. Seems to help. The most annoying bit has been a bout of angular cheilitis, pretty sure its going away, but I still feel like a leper.

I'm also exercising ~2ce a week. Light stuff, weights, martial arts... for like 20-30 minutes a go.

I also had to quit smoking, but I think I mentioned that somewhere already... nausea/dry throat/headaches = not fun.

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for the info dugdeep. I did some searches and the more I read the more incredulous I was. Perhaps something like this can happen to the villi in the small intestine but it seems that is not what they mean.

We got some neck bones, quite meaty, it was the only bony offering at the butcher this time. We added some raw beef tallow to it, which is cooking down and has covered the top, and squeezed in 2 lemons. We figure we will cook it until the meat falls off the bones and then use the meat for a meal, and keep cooking the bones until we have a rich broth.

We rendered beef tallow before in the crock pot, but it turned out grainy and smelled strange. Next time we will try it with water. I read about a trick where you put a tsp of salt in the bottom of your tallow jar which will dissolve into any extra water and make it last a lot longer.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This morning had me worried, but it turned out all right. There was a lot of gas and pain when I woke up, and later while I was fixing breakfast I had a hot flash and lightheadedness. It's scary when you don't know what it is or what might happen next. It turned out to be something nasty inside that wanted out, and once I passed it and rested for a while, I was OK and was able to eat. So I guess it was more of those uncooperative gut bacteria causing trouble.

I've had a couple days like that and a few spells of lightheadedness, mainly in the first two weeks of ketosis. Doesn't happen now. I think that the last of the carb fermenting bacteria were dying off or something. Then, probably, a bunch of apoptosis of cells in the intestines that were damaged and needed replacing. It really is an interesting process to observe/experience, and definitely best if you have some clue what may be going on. Otherwise, it could be a little scary!

I wish I could figure out what triggered this, but it has happened before and I usually don't find any definite cause. I have been continuing to lose weight (I'm down to 190 lb./86 kg) and I sometimes have back problems as my weight shifts during weight loss. I had lumbar muscle spasms yesterday and I spent the day working lying down. I don't see how that would cause what happened this morning, but I don't see anything else to point to. My back is better today.

The muscular and/or bone aches and pains have come and gone and they seem to move around a bit, though mostly in the hips and legs. I did have the low back version for the past couple of days, but that seems to be cleared up this morning.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Elimination of intracellular viruses and bacteria through apoptosis creates a lot of symptoms.

In Life Without Bread, Allan and Lutz reports how a low dose prednisone therapy has helped their patients going on a low carb diet and who have trouble getting over “autophagy” symptoms. That is, they report people feeling like they have cold, only that no real infection is taking place and they don’t feel necessarily ill. It involves prednisone at very low doses which doesn’t have the side effects that a therapeutic prednisone dose has. It is also for a very short period of time, so it would not interfere with your low sugar levels at the long-term. And while the dose is low enough, it still has helped their patients with autoimmune diseases to get over the transition period. They found that a simple treatment with 10 to 12 mg of prednisone for four to five days was enough to eliminate minor problems. The dose is low enough and an open minded doctor can prescribe it.

But I think we are going to have symptoms here and there as long as there is autophagy and reconstruction of tissues/cells and its mitochondria, and as long as there is die-off of intracellular organisms.

The last few days have been pretty rough for me as well. I went over my limit in protein like a week ago, when I ate more pork rinds than I should have. I ate each one with butter to make sure I still ate more fat. But nevertheless, it was too much food and after that I didn't felt well. So I'm sticking to my numbers and my broth since then. I've had a few splitting headaches that only go away with vitamin C and magnesium, plus a short nap.

 

[Foxx]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just want to post a status update. I've been eating bone broth twice a day for about 6 days (had to wait for the farmers market to be able to get bones) and the biggest change I'm seeing is that it looks like the facial eczema that I've had for years (even being paleo for over a year and protein restricted since about January) is clearing up! Dandruff that I've had for decades also appears to be clearing up (I imagine that dandruff is basically just scalp eczema, but I could be wrong), though still a ways to go.

I had been having some acid reflux sporadically for a while, even being zero carb and eating just pork at times, that I just couldn't nail down regarding a cause or a fix so I think my digestive tract wasn't healed in some way or I had contracted some pathogen (maybe H. Pylori) at some point that was causing issues. I've had virtually no reflux since focusing my diet on bone broth (except when I added butter to a bowl I was eating--that wasn't fun!). Because the bones I've been using have had some meat on them, I've basically only been eating broth and am pretty sure that I'm getting enough protein and fat.

I have been having some diarrhea on and off--mainly its been once or twice a day, but yesterday it was 3 or 4 times. I don't think it's too much fat, so right now my hypothesis is that its my digestive tract still cleaning itself out, healing, and whatever else it might need to do to reset, but I'll be watching it over the coming week or more (well, probably all the time, realistically).

My energy has been improving a bit, but is still low. I haven't started workouts yet, but will likely do so this coming week. My heart rate has also improved a bit, but is still higher than I would like.

I also made some homemade jello out of this gelatin:

_http://www.amazon.com/Great-Lakes-Unflavored-Gelatin-16-Ounce/dp/B001ELLBJS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347195547&sr=8-1

The Kosher kind says it comes from grass fed beef from Argentina and Brazil. The non-kosher kind comes from pigs and sounded potentially questionable to me. Here's their FAQ page:

_http://www.greatlakesgelatin.com/consumer/FAQs.php

I also just added a bit of the gelatin to the latest batch of bone broth currently being made for extra springiness. Some of the amazon reviews talk about people reducing joint cracking after taking this gelatin for a month or so (though presumably any high-gelatin bone broth would be at least as effective, I imagine) and I've had a lot of joint cracking forever, so I'm hoping that's one of the results.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This morning had me worried, but it turned out all right. There was a lot of gas and pain when I woke up, and later while I was fixing breakfast I had a hot flash and lightheadedness. It's scary when you don't know what it is or what might happen next. It turned out to be something nasty inside that wanted out, and once I passed it and rested for a while, I was OK and was able to eat. So I guess it was more of those uncooperative gut bacteria causing trouble.

I've had a couple days like that and a few spells of lightheadedness, mainly in the first two weeks of ketosis. Doesn't happen now. I think that the last of the carb fermenting bacteria were dying off or something. Then, probably, a bunch of apoptosis of cells in the intestines that were damaged and needed replacing. It really is an interesting process to observe/experience, and definitely best if you have some clue what may be going on. Otherwise, it could be a little scary! ...

This morning I tried being a little smarter, and I spent more time in the bathroom right after I got out of bed. There was more nasty stuff that wanted out, but it came out easily in time. The key seems to be patience! I wonder if some of those microbes don't manage to induce a little constipation so that they can hang around longer.

I did some Googling this morning and found that high-MCT ketogenic diets can cause abdominal pain. I am going to cut out the coconut oil for a while to see if that is part of the problem. I wasn't consuming a huge amount, and I wanted it for the potential therapeutic effects (which is why high-MCT ketogenic diets are used), but maybe I should try this without it for a while.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, I had nothing but problems with coconut oil/products.

Two things I have to hit myself in the forehead to remember at all times:

1) Drink a glass of salted water first thing in the morning. Like a 12 oz glass with half a teaspoon of salt.

2) Do NOT exceed the necessary amount of protein in a day and especially, spread it out over the day, not all in one meal. Going in and out of ketosis is NOT pleasant. The minute you go over your protein amount, it starts converting to glucose, the system has to switch and cravings start. As long as I am AT or UNDER my restricted protein amount, I DO NOT GET HUNGRY and don't have stomach problems of any kind.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Elimination of intracellular viruses and bacteria through apoptosis creates a lot of symptoms.

In Life Without Bread, Allan and Lutz reports how a low dose prednisone therapy has helped their patients going on a low carb diet and who have trouble getting over “autophagy” symptoms. That is, they report people feeling like they have cold, only that no real infection is taking place and they don’t feel necessarily ill. [...]

But I think we are going to have symptoms here and there as long as there is autophagy and reconstruction of tissues/cells and its mitochondria, and as long as there is die-off of intracellular organisms.

[...] I've had a few splitting headaches that only go away with vitamin C and magnesium, plus a short nap.

Thank you Psyche for these informations.

I just thought share some updates. Without being under prednisone therapy, I had this feeling of cold on the beginning of this week, during two days, without anormal temperature but I had to cover myself with pull-over during I had change nothing in my fat amount with a very low amount of proteines as I do from three weeks now. This feeling gone away when the hot weather came back four days ago.
Something else happened these two last days especially today. After my glass of cold water with salt at first on the morning, I use to drink my bone broth and eat 3 slices of lard for breakfast. Because it was so hot here, I was not hungry enough to drink another bone broth for lunch. So I took it around 5/6 pm with another piece of lard. Just to clarify in which mode I was on yesterday and the same for today.

I had headaches on yesterday evening around 6/7 pm, so after have took my Vit.C just after dinner and magnesium/potassium two hours later (as I usually do), I went to sleep enough early.
This morning, nothing special, headaches were gone. By thinking maybe the sun I took yesterday and the day before by reading was one cause of these headaches, I decided to stay in the shade this morning. But headaches came back in the middle of the afternoon, obliging me to put a pocket of ice on my forehead because I felt the pains at the level of my prefrontal cortex. In the same time I wanted warm a little bone broth, but because I was not enough hungry I decided to wait and take a rest with the pocket of glass. At 6pm, my brain seemed to wrinkle and my head was very warm. I checked my temperature, and nothing was wrong.
So I warmed my bone broth, drunk it and rather supernaturally, in one minute, pain gone away and my head came back to a normal temperature.

My thoughts are than my brain was on "overheating" and was asking me literally some fat. And to say the least, it is that the message seems to me rather clear. Even without be hungry, my brain had need more fat.

I am/was not worry about this by understanding how autophagy and reconstruction of tissues/cells and its mitochondria work. But I wanted to share this "miraculous" fact.

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've noticed that on days when I'm feeling fatigued and foggy, a cup of extra strong green tea will give me strong focus and energy to do things like work out and study, and actually makes me enjoy my job working in fast food. I also am a lot more talkative and optimistic, which can be a good or bad thing depending on the situation. Doing some shadow boxing while hyped up like this, I feel like Bruce Lee, I can move almost twice as fast as usual.

I don't use this tactic often as it feels like using a crutch and I don't want to become dependent on it, but it really seems to help. Plus it is great for thermogenesis in my cold baths.

I'd just like to hear some other views on this. Of course I know coffee is evil and avoid it, but could I be sabotaging myself by having a double dose of green tea to increase my performance in certain tasks?

Maybe after following ketosis for a long time I could have these kind of energy levels consistently.

Edit; something I forgot to mention:

I have clearly become more sensitive to caffeine on the KD. Since caffeine works by blocking adenosine receptors, and only works to the extent that you have the natural excitatory neurotransmitters, it could be that the kd has increased these neurotransmitters? Sorry if there is an obvious answer to this question, as I have not finished reading all the studies posted yet.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I had been having some acid reflux sporadically for a while, even being zero carb and eating just pork at times, that I just couldn't nail down regarding a cause or a fix so I think my digestive tract wasn't healed in some way or I had contracted some pathogen (maybe H. Pylori) at some point that was causing issues. I've had virtually no reflux since focusing my diet on bone broth (except when I added butter to a bowl I was eating--that wasn't fun!). Because the bones I've been using have had some meat on them, I've basically only been eating broth and am pretty sure that I'm getting enough protein and fat.

Foxx,

In regards to your reflux, maybe you are having too much protein. If not, I would suggest you try some Betaine HCl ....

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I am rather surprised at how much my weight loss was affected by dropping to near-zero carbs on about September 1 (see the chart, below). This is good news for now, because I still have about 12 lb. to lose, but I sure hope it tapers. I am eating normally now (2 meals/day, no hunger), and would not really want to eat much more to maintain weight! I believe that a lot of it is water weight, however, that was accumulating in my legs and I do expect it to taper off soon.

I am doing "light" exercise along with the keto diet -- the kind that has always worked for me, walking. I may try something more, but I am being cautious for now because I have had such bad experiences with any kind of exercise as far back as I can remember. One encouraging sign is that I am not crashing after my walks, the way I used to.

Within the last few days I have dropped right through the "plateau" that I had reached earlier this year (192 lb.). The reason the chart starts at 200 lb. is that I "binged" on nuts earlier in the year (one of my experiments gone badly wrong) and gained quite a lot of weight within a few weeks, somewhere around May.

 

[Foxx]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Foxx,

In regards to your reflux, maybe you are having too much protein. If not, I would suggest you try some Betaine HCl ....

Thanks for the suggestion, nicklebleu. The reflux basically ended once I started taking the bone broth twice a day and I was eating a very small amount of protein before, so I don't think that was it. I also could never work out the proper dosage with HCl, even after following the protocol to find the dosage.

Whatever the cause is/was, the bone broth seems to be fixing the reflux. Though hopefully my bowels will stop being so loose soon.

 

[Don Genaro]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, I had nothing but problems with coconut oil/products.

Two things I have to hit myself in the forehead to remember at all times:

1) Drink a glass of salted water first thing in the morning. Like a 12 oz glass with half a teaspoon of salt.

2) Do NOT exceed the necessary amount of protein in a day and especially, spread it out over the day, not all in one meal. Going in and out of ketosis is NOT pleasant. The minute you go over your protein amount, it starts converting to glucose, the system has to switch and cravings start. As long as I am AT or UNDER my restricted protein amount, I DO NOT GET HUNGRY and don't have stomach problems of any kind.

Is there a limit to protein intake in one sitting? I weigh just under 60k so I'm aiming for about 60gms of protein but since some days I only eat 2 meals, I was wondering if 30gms in one meal might be too much- I remember this from the carbs and was wondering if it would apply here?

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Is there a limit to protein intake in one sitting? I weigh just under 60k so I'm aiming for about 60gms of protein but since some days I only eat 2 meals, I was wondering if 30gms in one meal might be too much- I remember this from the carbs and was wondering if it would apply here?

Well, according to Rosedale, the paleo longevity researcher whose work Gedgaudas is based on, the limit for one meal should be around 25 grams roughly. So 30 grams is not that far away.

If you are ideal body weight is 60Kg, then it is okay to aim for 60 grams.