Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[whitecoast]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

After

I have now been on the changed diet for around 3 weeks (restricted protein, high fat, eccentric resistance training and IF) and have been able to drop my weight to 71 kg. The last time I had this weight was when I was 16. All other efforts (and there were many!) always resulted in some weight loss, but I hit a brick wall around 73kg and eventually piled on weight again and then some!

So this has really been a breakthrough for me! I'll keep on doing what I do now until I have reached my target weight (which is around 68 kg) and then I'll reduce IF and up the fat intake some more ... What a journey!

And BTW ... I feel mostly great and energetic (intermingled with some days with heavy legs and tiredness ...)

Congratulations for breaking your own barriers, nicklebleu!

I got a crock pot and a ton of bacon, steak, and bones a couple of weeks ago. I got on the keto train for about a week back in August, but that got stamped out when I went on vacation with some friends for a couple of days (it takes getting used to saying no to fruit in the summer) . Strategic enclosure re: diet has been pretty difficult whenever I try to be social without being near my home/refuge for extended periods of time. On the plus side, I learned a couple of days ago that three (3) of my friends were converting to the paleolithic diet. So it probably won't be as difficult to commit to staying away from vegetables as before. Currently I'm into my fourth day practising keto while exercising and doing IF.

During the adjustment phase of my first attempt, I've had bouts of waking up at 3am, then waking up at 6:30-7am. This occurred during my second day of my new lease as well. Aside from those rare occurrences, I've been waking up quite well-rested on just over 7 hours of sleep. Back when I was a carbovore I needed at least 8 to feel completely regenerated. I've felt low energy levels in my initial attempt (before the vacation fall), which I've attributed to having an improper fat:protein ratio. I'd often eat a whole steak for lunch - which is twice the limit recommended to avoid stimulating mTOR. Nowadays I split it up over several hours, which is hopefully enough to avoid suppressing ketosis. I also found restarting ketosis after the vacation was much less taxing than my initial foray into it.

I also report having difficulty getting my bone broth to gel sometime. One of my new paleo friends suggested I incorporate tendon into the broth. I'm set to acquire some tomorrow, so I'll let you all know how it goes. For what it's worth, I found laying off the salt in the initial cooking of the bone broth seemed to help it gel in the fridge. If my chemistry is correct, that may be due to the ions adding additional entropy to the organization of the biomolecules, which prevents neater, more solid latices forming. Take that with a grain of salt though. I often add salt to taste once I actually take the broth out of the fridge to eat, so I get more potassium.

My dehydrator arrived yesterday as well, and I had my first homemade jerky. :P I'd love to try and make some pemmican eventually, once I learn to orchestrate the food processing instruments effectively and perfect the macronutrient ratios.

Also, re: exercise. Would it be more beneficial to exercise on a full-meal day or a fast day? What would the effects on ketosis and muscle mass be?

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have now been on the changed diet for around 3 weeks (restricted protein, high fat, eccentric resistance training and IF) and have been able to drop my weight to 71 kg. The last time I had this weight was when I was 16. All other efforts (and there were many!) always resulted in some weight loss, but I hit a brick wall around 73kg and eventually piled on weight again and then some!

So this has really been a breakthrough for me! I'll keep on doing what I do now until I have reached my target weight (which is around 68 kg) and then I'll reduce IF and up the fat intake some more ... What a journey!

And BTW ... I feel mostly great and energetic (intermingled with some days with heavy legs and tiredness ...)

I'm seeing similar results. I've had several people this week tell me that I've lost weight and that they can see it in my face. I can actually see it in my gut - I've actually got a hint of abs under there somewhere ;) This recent diet change seems to have got me past my previous plateau. The scale tells me I've dropped 4 pounds (2k g or so) and I'm now at 171 lbs (77 kg).

Exercise is going well for me too, but I'm not quite doing the recommended routines yet. I went to see a personal trainer; a work friend who gave me a pretty great deal. He assessed my balance and posture in different positions, finding where my weaknesses were in my body and recommended several exercises to help restore some balance and loosen up where I'm tight (I'm also going through the rolfing series right now, which is truly miraculous and I think works synergistically with this workout routine). Because of the nature of the goals I'm working on, the exercises don't involve a lot of weight, although I do work these certain muscle groups to exhaustion in some instances. I'm sure I'm building some muscle, but probably not to the same extent as others who are doing more traditional heavy lifts. But I'll get there eventually - the trainer told me that in six weeks we'll get to the "fun stuff" :)

 

[sebbe]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have been down near zero carbs for nearly a week now and the dreaded GI problems have not materialized this time. I am feeling more fatigued than usual as I readapt, but it is not all that bad and doesn't interfere with my work...

It is good news to hear.

There is noticeably less fermentation now. I have been somewhere in the 30-50 g/d range for the past year, so this is not a huge adjustment for me.
There is some extra gas still in the morning when I wake up, and something in my lower abdomen is a little sore, especially when the cats stomp on it. It seems to be my colon. Nothing severe, though. I have noticed that on and off all along, in my battles with troublesome gut bacterial.

Perhaps you could try enema, it can be very helpful for colon.

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Exercise is going well for me too, but I'm not quite doing the recommended routines yet. I went to see a personal trainer; a work friend who gave me a pretty great deal. He assessed my balance and posture in different positions, finding where my weaknesses were in my body and recommended several exercises to help restore some balance and loosen up where I'm tight (I'm also going through the rolfing series right now, which is truly miraculous and I think works synergistically with this workout routine). Because of the nature of the goals I'm working on, the exercises don't involve a lot of weight, although I do work these certain muscle groups to exhaustion in some instances. I'm sure I'm building some muscle, but probably not to the same extent as others who are doing more traditional heavy lifts. But I'll get there eventually - the trainer told me that in six weeks we'll get to the "fun stuff" :)

I think you're right on in the bold above. I went through the whole rolfing series about 20 years ago and my feeling now is that it should be very complimentary with the KD regimen, autophagy, etc.

 

[Nienna]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I also report having difficulty getting my bone broth to gel sometime. One of my new paleo friends suggested I incorporate tendon into the broth.

Just in case some of you are not aware, I wanted to repost something that Laura said in this this thread.

Well, even non-jelly bone broth must do some good. I picked up a nasty headcold on Monday, drug myself into work yesterday cause I had to for month-end closing (I'm playing hooky today) and I felt like crap when I woke up this morning. Filled a thermos mug full of my what-passes-for-bone-broth and sipped on it, and this afternoon I feel so much better!! Usually takes me about 5 days to get over a cold.

Even the non-jellyfying bone broth is excellent. It only jellies if there is enough gristle on a joint or something like that. Plenty of batches we make don't gel.

Just because it doesn't gel doesn't mean that it's not good. So don't be throwing it out just because it doesn't gel.

 

[Gawan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I also report having difficulty getting my bone broth to gel sometime. One of my new paleo friends suggested I incorporate tendon into the broth.

Just in case some of you are not aware, I wanted to repost something that Laura said in this this thread.

Well, even non-jelly bone broth must do some good. I picked up a nasty headcold on Monday, drug myself into work yesterday cause I had to for month-end closing (I'm playing hooky today) and I felt like crap when I woke up this morning. Filled a thermos mug full of my what-passes-for-bone-broth and sipped on it, and this afternoon I feel so much better!! Usually takes me about 5 days to get over a cold.

Even the non-jellyfying bone broth is excellent. It only jellies if there is enough gristle on a joint or something like that. Plenty of batches we make don't gel.

Just because it doesn't gel doesn't mean that it's not good. So don't be throwing it out just because it doesn't gel.

The amount of water you add to the bones plays also a role how the consistence is.

 

[Alana]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have been down near zero carbs for nearly a week now and the dreaded GI problems have not materialized this time. I am feeling more fatigued than usual as I readapt, but it is not all that bad and doesn't interfere with my work. There is noticeably less fermentation now. I have been somewhere in the 30-50 g/d range for the past year, so this is not a huge adjustment for me.

That's very good to hear, Megan! :)

There is some extra gas still in the morning when I wake up, and something in my lower abdomen is a little sore, especially when the cats stomp on it. It seems to be my colon. Nothing severe, though. I have noticed that on and off all along, in my battles with troublesome gut bacterial.

For a few days last week I had felt some cramps from my intestines, with the soreness and a little gas, as you describe. I even felt the cramps when using the toilet. It lasted about 3-4 days, but then went away just like that. I think that it might very well be the dying of whatever bacteria where left in there, and /or the "pipes" getting used to the new totally-no-carbs lifestyle.

 

[mkrnhr]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I also noticed a tendency to be sleepy. One possibility is that it is due to re-adaptation taking place, like when we are sick and the body needs rest (and sleep) in order to rebuild itself. Just a FWIW.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have been down near zero carbs for nearly a week now and the dreaded GI problems have not materialized this time. I am feeling more fatigued than usual as I readapt, but it is not all that bad and doesn't interfere with my work. There is noticeably less fermentation now. I have been somewhere in the 30-50 g/d range for the past year, so this is not a huge adjustment for me.

That's very good to hear, Megan! :)

There is some extra gas still in the morning when I wake up, and something in my lower abdomen is a little sore, especially when the cats stomp on it. It seems to be my colon. Nothing severe, though. I have noticed that on and off all along, in my battles with troublesome gut bacterial.

For a few days last week I had felt some cramps from my intestines, with the soreness and a little gas, as you describe. I even felt the cramps when using the toilet. It lasted about 3-4 days, but then went away just like that. I think that it might very well be the dying of whatever bacteria where left in there, and /or the "pipes" getting used to the new totally-no-carbs lifestyle.

I had this too. Think I reported it earlier in the thread. The sharp pain before evacuation only happened a few times, though, and after that, it was like my intestines had a new lease on life.

I had a slightly rough day last two days. I felt very good yesterday morning so I went outside to do some painting and gardening and just plain was on my feet way too long in the sun. I went to bed very early, woke up very early, and have been working on book notes most of the day and moving the sprinkler around every hour or so. That's about all I'm able to do with some joint pains that have reactivated. I've stuck to broth and very low protein today to see if I can't sort it out by tomorrow.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This morning had me worried, but it turned out all right. There was a lot of gas and pain when I woke up, and later while I was fixing breakfast I had a hot flash and lightheadedness. It's scary when you don't know what it is or what might happen next. It turned out to be something nasty inside that wanted out, and once I passed it and rested for a while, I was OK and was able to eat. So I guess it was more of those uncooperative gut bacteria causing trouble.

I wish I could figure out what triggered this, but it has happened before and I usually don't find any definite cause. I have been continuing to lose weight (I'm down to 190 lb./86 kg) and I sometimes have back problems as my weight shifts during weight loss. I had lumbar muscle spasms yesterday and I spent the day working lying down. I don't see how that would cause what happened this morning, but I don't see anything else to point to. My back is better today.

I have been hearing more lately about gut bacteria issues. It's something that has been largely ignored by standard medical practice, at least until a crisis occurs. That's not too surprising because one of the major causes of the problem would seem to be widespread and indiscriminate use of antibiotics.

I am currently reading The Kalish Method by Daniel Kalish. He is a "functional medicine" MD, of the same lineage as Dr. Hyman. I'm not wild about his book, but he has things to say about gut bacteria and hormone imbalances (my two favorite subjects) and it may contain useful information (I am still reading it). I heard him talk recently on an Underground Wellness podcast.

The functional medicine approach is a little too tidy for me: run tests, see what's wrong, and correct nutritionally with supplements and foods. It's not really that simple, starting with the problem of limitations and reading errors in the available tests. But it's a better approach than standard medicine for non-acute situations, and the test results certainly could be helpful. There are a handful of FM practitioners near where I live. None are preferred providers with my health insurance, and two recommend a vegetarian diet on their website! Still, if you are having these kinds of gut/hormone issues, it could be worthwhile to try to find a competent FM practitioner that you can work with.

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The recent conversation reminded me of this:

Sometimes one may feel a sharp pain in the anal area which may last for a couple of seconds or up to ten seconds. This is an indication that stool is moving in the colon or rectum and that it is dislodging or grinding against mucoid plaque that lines the lines of these passages. Whilst unpleasant, this is a good indication that something positive is happening (in terms of mucoid plaque removal) but also an indication that mucoid plaque and congestion is present.

Also, I find if I press into my left gut beside the pelvic bone I can feel that corner of my colon... It helps me assess how tough my stools are before they pass and I will take some magnesium or vitamin C if it feels like a rock or is sore.

Megan, is it also possible that along with the pain might be intestinal bleeding and the blood might feed a growth of pathogens which the body then fights with fever-like symptoms? I wonder if mucoid plaque is removed, can the uncovered tissue bleed and is it leaky?

I also thought, in many of the books suggested on this forum the doctors will talk about several patients going through a healing process, compare and contrast their symptoms and provide insight and explanations, and what they did improve the conditions and symptoms. I was thinking we could gather together people's posts and experiences according to date and put them all beside each other. This would be a great way of discussing what causes certain symptoms, what worked to alleviate them, what mistakes were made and what the consequences were, and how the process may be different for different people depending on preexisting conditions, overweight or underweight, sluggish liver or low stomach acid, etc. and also what experiences are normal during ketoadaption. Most of this ground seems to have been covered already in the reading material and will be known by anyone who has read what they need to, but if the forum were to publish it's own diet guide it could be a very efficient writing device to collect and organize the information.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Megan, is it also possible that along with the pain might be intestinal bleeding and the blood might feed a growth of pathogens which the body then fights with fever-like symptoms? I wonder if mucoid plaque is removed, can the uncovered tissue bleed and is it leaky? ...

I don't think that is happening. I check for signs of blood regularly, and I am not seeing any. I can't say that I am a believer in "mucoid plaque." There are a few references to it in the forum, half of them yours, but has anyone researched it? Is it a real phenomenon?


Changing the subject completely, I checked the sugar content of the bacon I have been buying at Whole Foods, and it is zero. The person I talked to did not remember correctly. Clearly, he believed that bacon would not taste right without added sugar, and clearly he was wrong about that too!

That puts me, hopefully, at under 5 g/day carbs. The uncertainty comes from the supplements I take, most of which do not state the carb content. The one that does says 1 g of carbs per serving. I also still include a little sea vegetable (east coast, not west coast!) for iodine, which adds half a gram or so net, and a couple of servings of liver per week, which averages to another ~1 g/day.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Megan, is it also possible that along with the pain might be intestinal bleeding and the blood might feed a growth of pathogens which the body then fights with fever-like symptoms? I wonder if mucoid plaque is removed, can the uncovered tissue bleed and is it leaky? ...

I don't think that is happening. I check for signs of blood regularly, and I am not seeing any. I can't say that I am a believer in "mucoid plaque." There are a few references to it in the forum, half of them yours, but has anyone researched it? Is it a real phenomenon?

I'm friends with a colon surgeon and he tells me that a lot of the stuff that comes out of the holistic world about the colon is complete nonsense (actually, he thinks everything that comes out of the holistic world is nonsense, and with what's been discovered on this forum, I don't disagree with him!). He says that in his entire career, which is likely hundreds and hundreds of colons operated on, he has never come across impacted feces or any other type of plaque, and he has seen some really nasty colons. That's not to say that there couldn't be microscopic debris in the cells that line the colon, and that perhaps some forms of colon cleansing could deal with that (although loading up with fibre is likely to be a recipe for disaster).

Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Z...]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Well! It ain't over until the fat lady sings, apparently

Being quite slim to begin with I hope you don't mind me asking how many kilos you lost since the beginning of ketosis, is your weight stable now?

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...I am currently reading The Kalish Method by Daniel Kalish. He is a "functional medicine" MD, of the same lineage as Dr. Hyman...

Oops, make that a functional medicine D.C. (chiropractor). The book, which I just finished, is somewhat interesting, but his approach requires working with a trained functional medicine practitioner. It's not do-it-yourself book. Really, I think he is working just a level below allopathic medicine, because while he talks about identifying causes, what he actually does is identify symptoms that manifest in lab results. He does talk about possible causes for those symtoms, but there is so much he seems to miss that we discuss here. Ketogenic diet for "brain issues" is never discussed. I think he needs to spend some time in the paleo/primal community, and maybe read Primal Body, Primal Mind. :)