Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Isn't there radiation even from a bonfire/campfire ? Isn't heat itself the expression of radiation?
...
I think you cannot eliminate radiation if you want to cook.

That's the point. :)

The confusion, usually, is with "ionizing radiation," which is not produced by a microwave oven. Microwaves use longer wavelengths (lower frequencies), not shorter, compared to other cooking methods.

EMF exposure from microwave ovens is a whole other issue.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Isn't there radiation even from a bonfire/campfire ? Isn't heat itself the expression of radiation?
...
I think you cannot eliminate radiation if you want to cook.

That's the point. :)

The confusion, usually, is with "ionizing radiation," which is not produced by a microwave oven. Microwaves use longer wavelengths (lower frequencies), not shorter, compared to other cooking methods.

EMF exposure from microwave ovens is a whole other issue.

Thank the network that keeps me from being abysmally ignorant. I was confusing radiation with EMF. One of those, doh! moments.

I'm not sure if what bothers me are my personal associations between microwave and junk food, for which the microwave is obviously not to blame. Supermarkets nowadays have almost more pre packaged meals to be "cooked" in the microwave than real food. On the other hand, seeing my food explode in the microwave, particularly organ meat, makes me uneasy about what exactly is going on with that heating process.

I also prefer the taste of food when done in the oven and, so far, my meals don't seem to take any longer to re heat that way.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...On the other hand, seeing my food explode in the microwave, particularly organ meat, makes me uneasy about what exactly is going on with that heating process.

I also prefer the taste of food when done in the oven and, so far, my meals don't seem to take any longer to re heat that way.

What is going on is a lot of energy is being absorbed by the food, and fat is a particularly good microwave "receiver." Imagine what would happen if you placed some food in a container and heated it on a regular stove at the highest possible temperature for a few minutes -- but that's what people often do with their microwaves.

The microwave oven's magnetron is either on or off. When it is on, it delivers full power to the food. Most microwave ovens will let you set a duty cycle of between 10 and 100%, but by default they give you 100%, which means the magnetron power is on continuously for the duration of the cooking time. I'm not sure most people are even aware that they can adjust it for a more reasonable rate. They always heat on "high."

I usually heat my lunch, when I am at work and there is no option other than microwave oven, at 60% duty cycle for a minute or so. It warms the meat and broth enough so that the loose fat eventually melts after removing the dish from the oven, when I stir it into the broth (these are "all in one convenience meals"). Of course I use a glass dish. Heating at 60% largely avoids "hot spots" in the food. Other ovens may require a different setting.

 

[theos]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm still chugging along on this keto diet. I stopped weighing myself after about a ten lb loss but my clothes slowly seem to be getting more baggy. Finding the right amounts of protein to stay in ketosis and fat to stay satisfied yet keep from having diarrhea continues to be a work in progress.

Other things I've noticed are very strong fingernails and healthier hair. Good skin and an increased feeling of mellowness. My sleep is great as well. I've also noticed that my body is not producing much odor. I feel mentally quicker osit.

Dr Jack Kruse on his latest blog (jackkruse.com/jacks-blog/), Brain Gut 12, stresses the importance of brain specific nutrients. That shellfish and seafood is critical with a ketogenic diet - especially in the dark half of the year, as is iodine critical - its absence being a problem in low-carb/high protein diets (ketogenic).

Iodine is a major antioxidant in human cells and humans are (paleo ancestors were) designed to eat a marine diet (eg, shellfish loaded with iodine) to lower the oxidative state in our cells to support the metabolic rate of our nervous system. Especially in winter a diet high in iodine is required to assist the working of the brain, heart and nervous system. Meat and offal do not provide this iodine source. It appears that nutrient density for mammals with complex nervous systems (humans, dolphins, whales) require high levels of DHA and iodine (as in seafood template).

DHA is an essential fatty acid critical to cell membrane signalling and structure, and iodine is a good protector of all lipids in all cells.

He goes on to write about the effectiveness of saturated solution of potassium (iodine) in treating infections, cysts, hemorrhoids, and thyroid problems, and thyroid hormone are critical for brain development and functioning.

Research doctors he mentions are: Renko Kuiper, Stephen Cunnane (Survival of the Fattest), Crawfors and Tobias, so far, in books anyway, I've only found Cunnane.

This may help, or not.

I read this too. My diet consists of broth, pate and the best sources of seafood I can get my mits on. I haven't been able to go through all of the citations yet. My desktop broke and I'm forced to use a tablet. It took me nearly a century to write this post.

 

[Psalehesost]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I finally got bones for broth a number of days ago, cooked up 1 kg. Having salted plenty (but not too much) and boiled away some water when preparing it, after putting it in the refrigerator it became fully solid, with a thick layer of fat on top.

Having some slices - it is very satiating - each meal, not bothering heating it, I still have a little of it left, and it is definitely the new favorite food.


In general, since beginning the protein restriction and - on some days - exercising, limbs have been somewhat sore on and off. I feel better, find myself less hungry and needing less food, and the brain is working better than ever, in general.

In short, I'm yet another case of the basic idea working.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I finally got bones for broth a number of days ago, cooked up 1 kg. Having salted plenty (but not too much) and boiled away some water when preparing it, after putting it in the refrigerator it became fully solid, with a thick layer of fat on top.

I'm proud to say I finally achieved gel! Got some bones from WholeFoods on Saturday and they must have been full of marrow. Geeze, they can get away with charging a pretty penny for a couple pounds of bones they could ordinarily throw away.

 

[1984]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I finally got bones for broth a number of days ago, cooked up 1 kg. Having salted plenty (but not too much) and boiled away some water when preparing it, after putting it in the refrigerator it became fully solid, with a thick layer of fat on top.

Salt is not recommended during the cooking of the bones as it prohibits the release of minerals, etc. from the bone. You can always salt afterwards. :)

 

[Psalehesost]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Salt is not recommended during the cooking of the bones as it prohibits the release of minerals, etc. from the bone. You can always salt afterwards. :)

Will keep in mind next time. :)

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

What is going on is a lot of energy is being absorbed by the food, and fat is a particularly good microwave "receiver." Imagine what would happen if you placed some food in a container and heated it on a regular stove at the highest possible temperature for a few minutes -- but that's what people often do with their microwaves.

The microwave oven's magnetron is either on or off. When it is on, it delivers full power to the food. Most microwave ovens will let you set a duty cycle of between 10 and 100%, but by default they give you 100%, which means the magnetron power is on continuously for the duration of the cooking time. I'm not sure most people are even aware that they can adjust it for a more reasonable rate. They always heat on "high."

I usually heat my lunch, when I am at work and there is no option other than microwave oven, at 60% duty cycle for a minute or so. It warms the meat and broth enough so that the loose fat eventually melts after removing the dish from the oven, when I stir it into the broth (these are "all in one convenience meals"). Of course I use a glass dish. Heating at 60% largely avoids "hot spots" in the food. Other ovens may require a different setting.

Thanks Megan!

 

[Sinapi]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Another problem is that I am not hungry enough to even meet the RDA (50g) of protein. I can drink some fatty broth with meat, liver, or sardines mixed in for breakfast and them not feel hungry all day. In this fasting state, I feel like I can think a bit clearer as well. When I decide to have some dinner for the sake of getting more nutrition, I feel tired and get "brain fog" from the extra food. I do not think I'm going over the 25g/meal limit, and try to add 2-3 tablespoons of grassfed tallow to the fat from the marrow broth (can't get pastured lard currently). My body just seems better with less food, but I don't know if this is healthy to keep up or not.

FWIW, I experienced the same as you for about a week. I just couldn't eat more. I lost a bit more weight. Every time I tried to force myself to eat a bit more protein, I got extremely tired. But a week later, that went away. My guess is that lots of things are happening, and literally every day is different. So we need to still take it as an experiment, adapt according to what our bodies tell us, and see what happens.

Thanks, Ailen. :) It kept happening a while after I made that post, but now it seems like my body is readjusting, so now I can feel hungry at breakfast and dinner.

One weird thing I've observed is that if I drink bottled water, my body releases this really foul odor. It doesn't smell like ketones; I have no idea what it is! I can smell it for a few seconds after drinking, and then it dissipates. I hope people around me don't notice it. I've gotten to the point where I don't need four bottles of water to stay hydrated at school all day, so I'm going to switch to a stainless steel thermos and see if it happens again. Does anyone else get this?

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Try Ozarka water - stay away from everything else unless you bottle it at home. Bottled water usually comes from your local tap anyways or worse the local city tap. Look for the tests done on bottled water purity.

 

[obyvatel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm proud to say I finally achieved gel! Got some bones from WholeFoods on Saturday and they must have been full of marrow. Geeze, they can get away with charging a pretty penny for a couple pounds of bones they could ordinarily throw away.

Some Whole Foods have an "aged" version of the bones. It costs a little more than the regular version but for the same amount of cooking time, the broth is richer with the aged bones. I only used the "aged" version once and liked the broth.

An observation about ketostix. When I started the ketogenic diet, the strips showed trace amount of ketones. After a week or so it started to show large amounts. After that the strips went back to show trace amounts again. I was reasonably sure I was in ketosis based on the diet and how hunger had gone down significantly. When I tested blood ketones with a home testing meter, it read 7.1 while the ketostix showed only trace amounts. I am not sure at this point if the meter is calibrated properly though. Fasting blood glucose levels tested at 77. The reading was consistent in two tests at a short interval.

If the meter is accurate, then it would seem like what Thomas Seyfried wrote in

[quote author= Cancer as a Metabolic Disease ]
Ketones are retained in the body when glucose levels are low. Ketones serve as an energy substitute for glucose. If glucose is not reduced as in the KC-UR (unrestricted keto cal)groups, then most ketones will be excreted in the urine. This is why it is better to measure blood ketone levels than to measure urine ketones as an indicator of ketosis.
[/quote]
was verified in this case.

 

[Z...]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Fasting blood glucose levels tested at 77. The reading was consistent in two tests at a short interval

Did you mean 7.7? as 77 would be very high, or perhaps your meter is not in mmol/l.
Even 7.7 would be very high for someone in ketosis.

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Concerning salt. Rendering tallow (beef for us) can be a tricky thing it seems. Our first time we ended up with grainy, smelly brown stuff that didn't completely solidify. Then we put some tallow in the bone broth; it wasn't very white and it was a bit smelly but it tasted fine. Then we tried boiling it. The result solidified but still wasn't very white and didn't taste very good. I noticed that as the tallow renders it loses it's "warm" smell and begins to take on a less appetizing acid-like smell. Then we tried wet rendering at low simmer in the crock pot. I went by smell and stopped it when the "cooked" smell began to dominate. Still not a very satisfying tallow; not warm nor cooked flavor, something bland in between with conflicting, unappetizing flavors. All this time I've been reading about ways to render tallow but, like seasoning cast-iron pans, there is a lot of conflicting and ambiguous information. This time I rendered it on the "warm" setting of our Proctor-Silex crock pot, as I'd heard that is the best temperature (and also read that 130-140F is considered the best for rendering). I also stood up a needle thermometer inside the crock pot to have some repeatable and referenceable information. The stuff never boiled, and never lost the warm smell! The temperature went up to 160 degrees and it still appeared fine. Since the cracklings were no longer shrinking and were beginning to turn transparent (most were still opaque) I decided I would strain it out then. I put the cracklings in their on bowl. I fried some eggs with them later and they were great, warm tasting without that "fried" taste, and very palatable. I have simply been chopping the tallow repeatedly with a broad knife until it crumbles finely and there are few chunks. Finely chopped fat is supposed to render better but I wonder if this is mainly because it renders sooner and therefore does not overcook.

In short these are my thoughts:

1: The more agitated the tallow is when it's cooking, the more grainy and cloudy it will be, and the stronger it's flavor, whatever that may be.
2: Do not render tallow to temperatures at or above which you would consider meat done. Otherwise your tallow will have a hard-overfried acidy meat taste and smell.
3: The tallow will partly take on the taste of what it is rendered with, be that bone broth, stew or whatnot - along with the taste of the tallow, which will also mix with your stew, bone broth or whatnot, for better or worse.

Since beef tallow has a smoke point of 400F, overcooking should not be a problem. So the reason rendering is so difficult must be because of the tissues mixed with the fat. In soapmaking, baking soda is added to the water during rendering to make the tallow white and take away the smell (.4% to tallow in weight, which is about 1tsp per 5lb). I read that that produces soap-like chemicals during rendering so I stayed away from it. I later thought, people use baking soda and oil together all the time so it can't be too bad, right? Later I read to add a teaspoon of salt to the water, which is supposed to react with the proteins and allow them to separate/settle out of the fat resulting in a more pure tallow. But what surprised me is that none of the articles on rendering fat for cooking never said anything about this. I also read a sprig of rosemary (I think, but maybe cilantro? I know cilantro can have a soapy taste) was supposed to help purify it too.

I think a better rendered tallow, in addition to tasting better, will have a higher smoke point (due to less suspended proteins), and will be more shelf stable. The less impurities, the better it will respond to canning and future processing, and will be less likely to overcook and produce carcinogens and unpalatable flavors. It seems that grassfed beef tallow will always be a bit yellow based on my reading. I wonder whether rendering with baking soda or salt would change this; if so maybe it is a bad thing. The most prized lard is snow white and tasteless - does the same hold true for grassfed beef tallow?

In order to make lard or tallow shelf-stable for years, it needs to be boiled to drive any remaining water out (a thermometer is very helpful). This must be done after the final render or any tissue remaining in the oil will scald. Some people have mason jars in the over preheated to 250F which they then pour the tallow into and put the lid on. This is supposed to seal the jars for keeping indefinitely.

In searching for a way to keep from overcooking the tallow, I suspected a double boiler would be just the thing, you just turn the burner on high and the boiler never gets over 212F; this is supposed to help when dry rendering, but the possibility of overcooking the cracklings is still present so I consider it my second option as far as the first render goes.

The very best method, I have heard, comes from Modern Cuisine. I was not able to find the specific info online but what I've gathered is this: Blend up the fat with water to make a "fat shake" type thing. Then add baking soda and render in the pressure cooker. This is supposed to make the most neutral, white tallow. I actually tried this, but the fat stuck to the sides of the mason jar I was blending it in. Maybe hot water is needed, and the baking soda could be added to it as well?

My crock pot:

_http://www.proctorsilex.com/products/slow-cookers-15-quart-round-slow-cooker-model-33015y.php

Rendering with salt:

_http://swingleydev.com/misc/soap.php

Sprig of rosemary:

_http://www.spain-in-iowa.com/2011/02/how-render-lard-the-right-way-snow-white/#comment-5857

Pressure rendering with baking soda:

_http://www.kayahara.ca/2012/06/high-on-the-hog-pressure-rendered-lard/

If this is too off-topic here how about having a dedicated tallow rendering thread? It has been difficult for me but maybe I'm just dense?

 

[obyvatel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Fasting blood glucose levels tested at 77. The reading was consistent in two tests at a short interval

Did you mean 7.7? as 77 would be very high, or perhaps your meter is not in mmol/l.
Even 7.7 would be very high for someone in ketosis.

Glucose was 77 mg/dL. Ketone was 7.1mmol/L. I am not too sure of the accuracy of the ketone reading. It took quite a few attempts using multiple strips to get a value out of it. 7 is in the higher range of ketosis though based on what I could gather from different sources like
_http://www.drmyattswellnessclub.com/DietaryKetosisOverweightMetabolicSyndrome.htm

In dietary ketosis, the conversion of stored fats to useable energy allows blood ketones to typically reach levels of 2 to 7 mM, an evolutionary adaptation necessary to prevent conversion of vital muscle mass to glucose in times of famine.