Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm not sure, but I think scrambled eggs (although not ideal) would not be as bad if eaten right away. The longer the yoke is broken and exposed to air, the more oxidation occurs (sort of like apples theat get darker the longer after cutting/peeling), if I remember correctly.

On another note, grass fed beef tallow would be somewhat less available as grass fed beef tends to be very lean. That's the problem here where all animals are free roaming and wild fed (on wild grasses mainly). The beef is extremely lean and only the tougher and cheaper cuts for stews and such have any fat on them at all. So when I occasionally have beef, I add lots of other animal fat to it. Pork on the other hand, is very fatty here. FWIW.

Finally, I'm still thriving on the KD. I didn't do much except cut down the protein a bit and increased the fat to compensate. I've been pretty much at near zero carbs and average 80% of calories as fat since early spring of 2011. Just feel even better/more consistent high energy since cutting down the protein a bit.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm not sure, but I think scrambled eggs (although not ideal) would not be as bad if eaten right away. The longer the yoke is broken and exposed to air, the more oxidation occurs (sort of like apples theat get darker the longer after cutting/peeling), if I remember correctly...

I have been having omelets for breakfast for a very long time, but I have changed things based upon what I read here in the forum. First of all, I recently did a 30-day elimination/challenge test (the 2nd test I have done) to make sure I didn't have any sensitivity to eggs.

I only use pastured eggs now, and I wait to break and scramble the eggs until I am ready to pour them into the pan. I then cook with as little heat as possible, although I am still working on getting that right. The trick is to cook it on the first side just long enough to be able to turn it over, and then to remove the heat and add the meat, transferring it to the plate soon thereafter. My coordination is not good, and I have not even bothered to try to learn to "flip" it properly. I just use a spatula.

When it works, the egg is very soft and quite delicious. When it is thoroughly cooked, it doesn't even taste good, now. If I can't get this to work consistently, I will have to switch to a different style. There really isn't much to put in the omelets any more, anyway.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I finally got bones for broth a number of days ago, cooked up 1 kg. Having salted plenty (but not too much) and boiled away some water when preparing it, after putting it in the refrigerator it became fully solid, with a thick layer of fat on top.

Salt is not recommended during the cooking of the bones as it prohibits the release of minerals, etc. from the bone. You can always salt afterwards. :)

Sorry for the slight diversion from the current topic here, but this has been posted a while back and it has been on my mind ever since. So, does this mean that no salt should be added until the bone broth is fully cooked?

I did a search on this thread and board and couldn't find any other references further explaining this though, nor have I been lucky with google. Does anyone know if a more comprehensive explanation has been posted elsewhere?

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I finally got bones for broth a number of days ago, cooked up 1 kg. Having salted plenty (but not too much) and boiled away some water when preparing it, after putting it in the refrigerator it became fully solid, with a thick layer of fat on top.

Salt is not recommended during the cooking of the bones as it prohibits the release of minerals, etc. from the bone. You can always salt afterwards. :)

Sorry for the slight diversion from the current topic here, but this has been posted a while back and it has been on my mind ever since. So, does this mean that no salt should be added until the bone broth is fully cooked?

I did a search on this thread and board and couldn't find any other references further explaining this though, nor have I been lucky with google. Does anyone know if a more comprehensive explanation has been posted elsewhere?

If I remember right, salt can leach nickel from stainless steel cookware, but it could also prevent uptake of other bone minerals from the bones in the stock - no need for that. :)

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I eat scrambled eggs once in awhile when I allow myself egg because I LIKE them and I figure that once in awhile won't hurt.

I found one of the best things for digestion is to actually feel good about what you're eating. It seems when I am apprehensive about my food so is my digestion.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If I remember right, salt can leach nickel from stainless steel cookware, but it could also prevent uptake of other bone minerals from the bones in the stock - no need for that. :)

Thanks LQB, I had no idea. So the best thing to do is to use vinegar, which should do the opposite by helping to "pull out" the bone minerals, and only add salt on your plate.
I haven't seen this mention on bone broth discussions I have so far come across over the web, so it was a surprise.

I found one of the best things for digestion is to actually feel good about what you're eating. It seems when I am apprehensive about my food so is my digestion.

Same here. Baring in mind that our brains are tightly connected to our guts, I think that it isn't surprising. There are many nerve branches connecting both, which might explain the common expression "gut feeling".

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Actually, wouldn't salt HELP to pull the minerals out of the bones into the broth?

 

[Julius]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

In spite of efforts it is not always possible for me to get bones for broth, I have to rely on pure lard and butter which is not that bad at all.

Something was missing for me in this diet, focusing at all on animal fat, I would get very thirst at night, waking up thirsty several times until I read something about potassium and tried to up the dosage.

So I bought some 250g of potassium bicarbonate and now take a teaspoon a day (about 10g), and after researching a bit, everywhere I read it seems the paleolythic folks (the ones from millenia ago!) ingested from 11 to 15g of potassium per day.. someone has info/sources contradicting or backing this?

Well this 10g of bicarbonate potassium a day make a huge difference to me, in mood, energy and even hunger (I get to eat more at once :D ).

http://www.life-enhancement.com/article.aspx?id=2089

Much Higher Potassium Content in Paleolithic Diet

According to one study,1 “the Stone Age human potassium intake averaged 400 ± 125 mEq/d [about 15 grams per day!], which exceeds the NHANES III [Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1988-1994] age-grouped averages (~60-85 mEq/d) [2.3–3.3 grams/d] by factors greater than 4.” This amount also “exceeds the 120 mEq/d set for adequate intake by the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine in 2004 and 2006 and the same value, 120 mEq/d recommended by the U.S. Department of Agriculture in 2005 [4.7 grams per day].”1 Note that the potassium content of the average American adult diet is only 50% to 70% of the amount recommended. This means that most American diets are officially deficient in potassium. Worse yet, we believe that the official RDA is too low.

 

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Actually, wouldn't salt HELP to pull the minerals out of the bones into the broth?

That was exactly my thought too. In fact, I noticed that when I cook the broth with salt in it, it becomes a bit darker, tastier, and the bones almost desintegrate after 24hs on low heat in the pressure cooker. With no (or less salt), the broth is very light colored, the bones a bit tougher still, and I don't feel like I've had a good share of minerals. That might be a subjective impression, of course.

 

[Julius]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Forgot to say in my previous post... no more thirst at night time!

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Potassium is one of the main ingredients in saliva so that makes sense.

EDIT: when you wrote "thirst" I thought "dry mouth" so I guess this is not applicable.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Actually, wouldn't salt HELP to pull the minerals out of the bones into the broth?

That was exactly my thought too. In fact, I noticed that when I cook the broth with salt in it, it becomes a bit darker, tastier, and the bones almost desintegrate after 24hs on low heat in the pressure cooker. With no (or less salt), the broth is very light colored, the bones a bit tougher still, and I don't feel like I've had a good share of minerals. That might be a subjective impression, of course.

If one looked at it from a "physical" perspective, then no salt would make more sense, as the concentration gradient would be higher between the broth and the bone, so more minerals are leached out of the bone. If there is already salt in the water surrounding the bones, then less of it would follow the concentration gradient into the broth. However this theory falls a bit short for all the other minerals, as the only thing you would be putting in it is sea salt, which consists mainly of sodium chloride, a bit of potassioum and some trace elements. So not sure if this explanation is really worth a lot ...

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

On another note ... I did a small experiment.

I recently bought a glucometer which is able to measure ketones (beta-hydroxybutyrate) in the blood. I did a few measurements while eating the reduced protein amount, followed by intermittent fasting and then eating a huge protein load. Here are the results:

23.9.12 at 2130: 4.1 mmol/l (reduced protein amount = approx. 1g/kg)
24.9.12 at 2300: 5.8 mmol/l (IF)
25.9.12 at 2300: 4.7 mmol/l (after eating scallops and a 400g steak)
26.9.12 at 2100: 4.9 mmol/l (IF)
27.9.12 at 2000: 4.3 mmol/l (reduced protein amount)

So even though I had a huge amount of protein in one meal, this didn't put me out of ketosis. The interesting thing however was that once I was home (after having eaten the scallops and steak at the restaurant) I was hungry and needed to have some more fat (bone broth). I also slept poorly that night, frequently waking up. The ketones in the blood are slightly higher while in IF, but only marginally so (probably not significantly).

Although this is only a N=1 experiment, it is kind of reassuring to know, that even if I occasionally have a bigger than expected amount of protein, this doesn't seem to throw me out of ketosis. And it also kind of counters the argument that the most satiating part of food is protein. Maybe this is true in the context of carbohydrates, but is certainly not true in my experience while being in ketosis full-time. Or maybe once you have been in ketosis for a prolonged period of time it just takes more than one meal to get you out of ketosis.

I might repeat that experiment next week and see if things change ... I don't feel that I would want to push my luck and try this out a few days in a row though.

 

[Julius]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If one looked at it from a "physical" perspective, then no salt would make more sense, as the concentration gradient would be higher between the broth and the bone, so more minerals are leached out of the bone. If there is already salt in the water surrounding the bones, then less of it would follow the concentration gradient into the broth. However this theory falls a bit short for all the other minerals, as the only thing you would be putting in it is sea salt, which consists mainly of sodium chloride, a bit of potassioum and some trace elements. So not sure if this explanation is really worth a lot ...

Salt probably reacts chemically to elements in the bone causing the effect.

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Actually, wouldn't salt HELP to pull the minerals out of the bones into the broth?

That was exactly my thought too. In fact, I noticed that when I cook the broth with salt in it, it becomes a bit darker, tastier, and the bones almost desintegrate after 24hs on low heat in the pressure cooker. With no (or less salt), the broth is very light colored, the bones a bit tougher still, and I don't feel like I've had a good share of minerals. That might be a subjective impression, of course.

If one looked at it from a "physical" perspective, then no salt would make more sense, as the concentration gradient would be higher between the broth and the bone, so more minerals are leached out of the bone. If there is already salt in the water surrounding the bones, then less of it would follow the concentration gradient into the broth. However this theory falls a bit short for all the other minerals, as the only thing you would be putting in it is sea salt, which consists mainly of sodium chloride, a bit of potassioum and some trace elements. So not sure if this explanation is really worth a lot ...

I think the reasoning was like you say - adding salt before hand would make other mineral salts less likely to dissolve. If I remember right, this was a Sally Fallon/WAPF suggestion. I think it was another WAPF author that suggested the leaching of nickel over long periods of cooking a salty brew in stainless steel.

Added: An example might be an epsom salt bath. If you has a strong epsom solution, would you expect it to dissolve an equal amount of NaCl? It might but only if it precipitated the Mg salt out of solution.