Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Actually, wouldn't salt HELP to pull the minerals out of the bones into the broth?

That was exactly my thought too. In fact, I noticed that when I cook the broth with salt in it, it becomes a bit darker, tastier, and the bones almost desintegrate after 24hs on low heat in the pressure cooker. With no (or less salt), the broth is very light colored, the bones a bit tougher still, and I don't feel like I've had a good share of minerals. That might be a subjective impression, of course.

If one looked at it from a "physical" perspective, then no salt would make more sense, as the concentration gradient would be higher between the broth and the bone, so more minerals are leached out of the bone. If there is already salt in the water surrounding the bones, then less of it would follow the concentration gradient into the broth. However this theory falls a bit short for all the other minerals, as the only thing you would be putting in it is sea salt, which consists mainly of sodium chloride, a bit of potassioum and some trace elements. So not sure if this explanation is really worth a lot ...

I think the reasoning was like you say - adding salt before hand would make other mineral salts less likely to dissolve. If I remember right, this was a Sally Fallon/WAPF suggestion. I think it was another WAPF author that suggested the leaching of nickel over long periods of cooking a salty brew in stainless steel.

Added: An example might be an epsom salt bath. If you has a strong epsom solution, would you expect it to dissolve an equal amount of NaCl? It might but only if it precipitated the Mg salt out of solution.

Yeah, that's what I thought the mechanism would be. Also, we're adding acid (vinegar, fresh squeezed lemon) and soaking the bones for an hour before cooking it for a whole day or more. So, I also thought that adding a lot of salt in the beginning would neutralize the acidity (raising the pH) and thus pull out less minerals. Does this make sense? Anyway, I've read to add salt after the cooking is done on SOTT articles on bone broth, in the "Preparedness" thread, I think, and also the bone broth recipe in the last issue of Dot Connector Magazine.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, that's what I thought the mechanism would be. Also, we're adding acid (vinegar, fresh squeezed lemon) and soaking the bones for an hour before cooking it for a whole day or more. So, I also thought that adding a lot of salt in the beginning would neutralize the acidity (raising the pH) and thus pull out less minerals. Does this make sense? Anyway, I've read to add salt after the cooking is done on SOTT articles on bone broth, in the "Preparedness" thread, I think, and also the bone broth recipe in the last issue of Dot Connector Magazine.

In bold is a very important thing to do before cook bones, one hour or more (it can be two hours). It is the way I always used by making "pot-au-feu" for example. The other thing I could share in case of, is than the water must be cold. So, the cooking of bones broth should start by soaking bones in cold water for one or two hours (maybe it depends how much bones are inside).

About salt before or not, I always used to salt at the beginning, so I tried to not salt at all during the cooking for the last one I've made and added it at the last time. It looks that could be give a bone broth less digestible. At least it was the case for my husband even by adding some vinegar, but not for me. Then it could also be different (about digestibility) according to the persons and their state in KD diet. Just a thought.

 

[Foxx]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, that's what I thought the mechanism would be. Also, we're adding acid (vinegar, fresh squeezed lemon) and soaking the bones for an hour before cooking it for a whole day or more. So, I also thought that adding a lot of salt in the beginning would neutralize the acidity (raising the pH) and thus pull out less minerals. Does this make sense? Anyway, I've read to add salt after the cooking is done on SOTT articles on bone broth, in the "Preparedness" thread, I think, and also the bone broth recipe in the last issue of Dot Connector Magazine.

In bold is a very important thing to do before cook bones, one hour or more (it can be two hours). It is the way I always used by making "pot-au-feu" for example. The other thing I could share in case of, is than the water must be cold. So, the cooking of bones broth should start by soaking bones in cold water for one or two hours (maybe it depends how much bones are inside).

I've heard a few different things about soaking or pre-cooking the bones (the south korean co-farmer wife where I've been buying my beef bones says to bring the bones to just to a boil once, then discard that water, then cook three times--very adamant that this is the way it should be done as she tells me pretty much every time I buy bones, but I've just been crock-potting them), but no reasons as for why it's suggested--why soak the bones before hand? And do you then discard the soaking water?

About salt before or not, I always used to salt at the beginning, so I tried to not salt at all during the cooking for the last one I've made and added it at the last time. It looks that could be give a bone broth less digestible. At least it was the case for my husband even by adding some vinegar, but not for me. Then it could also be different (about digestibility) according to the persons and their state in KD diet. Just a thought.

So, just to help me clarify, your husband found it to be less digestible when adding the salt at the end? But you didn't experience that? Subjectively, was the bone broth better with salt added at the beginning or the end, in your opinion?

My initial idea when making bone broth quite some time ago was to salt the water first--my thinking then being that salt water is extremely corrosive/a highly effective solvent, if I'm understanding correctly, so it would extract minerals better. But this was just my guess. I've since been adding salt at the end from others' recommendations, but I think the next batch I do will be salted at the beginning to compare.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, that's what I thought the mechanism would be. Also, we're adding acid (vinegar, fresh squeezed lemon) and soaking the bones for an hour before cooking it for a whole day or more. So, I also thought that adding a lot of salt in the beginning would neutralize the acidity (raising the pH) and thus pull out less minerals. Does this make sense? Anyway, I've read to add salt after the cooking is done on SOTT articles on bone broth, in the "Preparedness" thread, I think, and also the bone broth recipe in the last issue of Dot Connector Magazine.

In bold is a very important thing to do before cook bones, one hour or more (it can be two hours). It is the way I always used by making "pot-au-feu" for example. The other thing I could share in case of, is than the water must be cold. So, the cooking of bones broth should start by soaking bones in cold water for one or two hours (maybe it depends how much bones are inside).

I've heard a few different things about soaking or pre-cooking the bones (the south korean co-farmer wife where I've been buying my beef bones says to bring the bones to just to a boil once, then discard that water, then cook three times--very adamant that this is the way it should be done as she tells me pretty much every time I buy bones, but I've just been crock-potting them), but no reasons as for why it's suggested--why soak the bones before hand? And do you then discard the soaking water?

Soak some meat or bones in the cold water serves to make take out the blood. But (and thank you for remind me this) there is no meat in the bone broth, and in the case of "pot-au-feu", once the water with boiling, it forms a kind of foam on the surface, skims that the we remove with one skimmer before throwing the "real" cooking. So for my bone broth I do not change the water or remove anything, there is no foam.

About salt before or not, I always used to salt at the beginning, so I tried to not salt at all during the cooking for the last one I've made and added it at the last time. It looks that could be give a bone broth less digestible. At least it was the case for my husband even by adding some vinegar, but not for me. Then it could also be different (about digestibility) according to the persons and their state in KD diet. Just a thought.

So, just to help me clarify, your husband found it to be less digestible when adding the salt at the end? But you didn't experience that? Subjectively, was the bone broth better with salt added at the beginning or the end, in your opinion?

My initial idea when making bone broth quite some time ago was to salt the water first--my thinking then being that salt water is extremely corrosive/a highly effective solvent, if I'm understanding correctly, so it would extract minerals better. But this was just my guess. I've since been adding salt at the end from others' recommendations, but I think the next batch I do will be salted at the beginning to compare.

Subjectively, I find the broth better when it is salty from the beginning of the cooking. I will try another time to salt at the end, just to see.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I recently bought a glucometer which is able to measure ketones (beta-hydroxybutyrate) in the blood. I did a few measurements while eating the reduced protein amount, followed by intermittent fasting and then eating a huge protein load. Here are the results:

23.9.12 at 2130: 4.1 mmol/l (reduced protein amount = approx. 1g/kg)
24.9.12 at 2300: 5.8 mmol/l (IF)
25.9.12 at 2300: 4.7 mmol/l (after eating scallops and a 400g steak)
26.9.12 at 2100: 4.9 mmol/l (IF)
27.9.12 at 2000: 4.3 mmol/l (reduced protein amount)

Interesting, when I was overdoing protein I had skin rashes which in all paleo forums I have come across is associated with going deeper into ketosis. My ketostix was certainly dark then. I haven't had skin rashes for a year now, so that might mean that I'm either better adapted, or it is the fact that I significantly reduced protein to favor fat that caused the change. Perhaps a combination of both. In any case, I feel much better with less protein.

I also wanted to ask, how long did you fast for nicklebleu?

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Interesting, when I was overdoing protein I had skin rashes which in all paleo forums I have come across is associated with going deeper into ketosis. My ketostix was certainly dark then. I haven't had skin rashes for a year now, so that might mean that I'm either better adapted, or it is the fact that I significantly reduced protein to favor fat that caused the change. Perhaps a combination of both. In any case, I feel much better with less protein.

I also had bad skin rashes, but this time around, things are going better. I think the fatty bone broth is a blessing in this sense.

 

[Foxx]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Soak some meat or bones in the cold water serves to make take out the blood. But (and thank you for remind me this) there is no meat in the bone broth, and in the case of "pot-au-feu", once the water with boiling, it forms a kind of foam on the surface, skims that the we remove with one skimmer before throwing the "real" cooking. So for my bone broth I do not change the water or remove anything, there is no foam.

<snip>

Subjectively, I find the broth better when it is salty from the beginning of the cooking. I will try another time to salt at the end, just to see.

Ok, that's some helpful information. Thanks MK Scarlett!

 

[RflctnOfU]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

First Update: I bought about 3.5 lbs of grass fed beef marrow bones yesterday afternoon, left them in the crockpot on low for 24 hours. I just started the cooling process. I can't BELIEVE how much fat is in these little goodies. At least half an inch on top. I grabbed a small cup to try. Very interesting flavor. It feels very nutrient rich. I strongly suspect that I will grow to love the taste relatively soon, and I will start having this at least twice a day. Thank you all so much for starting this experiment!!! I never would have thought to make this stuff otherwise.

Kris

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

First Update: I bought about 3.5 lbs of grass fed beef marrow bones yesterday afternoon, left them in the crockpot on low for 24 hours. I just started the cooling process. I can't BELIEVE how much fat is in these little goodies. At least half an inch on top. I grabbed a small cup to try. Very interesting flavor. It feels very nutrient rich. I strongly suspect that I will grow to love the taste relatively soon, and I will start having this at least twice a day. Thank you all so much for starting this experiment!!! I never would have thought to make this stuff otherwise.

Kris

A tiny bit of onion if tolerated, and definitely some salt and pepper and an added tablespoon of fat for an average sized bowl, and you are fueled up for HOURS.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I also wanted to ask, how long did you fast for nicklebleu?

Gertrudes,

When I am intermittently fasting I have breakfast and then nothing except one cup of bone broth until the next breakfast.

 

[Lilou]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Has anyone else noticed better tolerance to cold weather since starting KD/bone broth? Our weather took a sudden turn last week, with highs around 55F (13C) and down in the 30'sF (near 0C) at night. To my own surprise, I found myself quite comfortable in a short sleeved shirt, while everyone else was bundled up in jackets and sweatshirts. The benefits of this high fat diet are simply amazing!

 

[RflctnOfU]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

First Update: I bought about 3.5 lbs of grass fed beef marrow bones yesterday afternoon, left them in the crockpot on low for 24 hours. I just started the cooling process. I can't BELIEVE how much fat is in these little goodies. At least half an inch on top. I grabbed a small cup to try. Very interesting flavor. It feels very nutrient rich. I strongly suspect that I will grow to love the taste relatively soon, and I will start having this at least twice a day. Thank you all so much for starting this experiment!!! I never would have thought to make this stuff otherwise.

Kris

A tiny bit of onion if tolerated, and definitely some salt and pepper and an added tablespoon of fat for an average sized bowl, and you are fueled up for HOURS.

Onion is VERY tolerated. I actually had intended to inquire which, if any, 'veggies' are okay with this diet. I LOVE onion and garlic, and quite honestly would find food without those gems a little bit depressing. On the energy front, today all I had to eat was about 8 oz of this broth, in two small cups at around 3pm (I had a very late night and a late start to my day), and I am only now, at 11:52PM, starting to feel energy levels dropping. AMAZING!!! I felt kinda like the energizer bunny. I kept 'going, and going, and going...' ;D

Regarding added tbsn of fat, which blends best, in terms of flavor, with strictly beef bone broth (this time at least)?? I am just beginning the transition into this diet. I know coconut oil is out. I haven't started saving bacon grease yet (I only started cooking it myself a couple of weeks ago, but would always order it while eating out for breakfast -- I love the stuff!) I don't know if I've mentioned before that I had and aversion to touching raw meat - for years. I've only recently got over that. Thanks again for posting all of your experiences everyone :)

Kris

 

[obyvatel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Regarding added tbsn of fat, which blends best, in terms of flavor, with strictly beef bone broth (this time at least)?? I am just beginning the transition into this diet. I know coconut oil is out.

I use lard.

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Has anyone else noticed better tolerance to cold weather since starting KD/bone broth? Our weather took a sudden turn last week, with highs around 55F (13C) and down in the 30'sF (near 0C) at night. To my own surprise, I found myself quite comfortable in a short sleeved shirt, while everyone else was bundled up in jackets and sweatshirts. The benefits of this high fat diet are simply amazing!

I am also finding myself stood at the bus stop in shorts and t shirt, surrounded by people in heavy warm jackets. I still feel the cold, but it doesn't seem to bother me as much. We'd better get used to it anyway.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Regarding added tbsn of fat, which blends best, in terms of flavor, with strictly beef bone broth (this time at least)?? I am just beginning the transition into this diet. I know coconut oil is out.

I use lard.

The same here, and today, I will make my own lard from fat around kidneys brought from my butcher on yesterday:
http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/527400_261788207257236_207283578_n.jpg

Thank you Oxajil for the picture, and many thanks Adaryn for the link for making it by ourselves. ;)