Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

... and it seems like my nail bed health in my toes is starting to get better (both big toe nails in the last year or so have started growing inward -- ouch)

Your nail problem has a lot to do with proper nail hygiene (or improper .... :))

First off, always cut your nails straight and don't curve inwards towards the nailbed at the edges. This is the main reason for ingrown toe nails ...

Another thing you can do to relieve ingrown toe nails (apart from having it excised by a surgeon under local anaesthesia) is to use a nail file to file the top of your nail so that the top is much thinner than the borders. This relieves the downward pressure on the edges and helps your ingrown nail to heal too. Takes a lot of filing as the top needs to be so thin as to be soft to pressure with a pointed instrument, but might be worth it. Had an ingrown toe nail once a week before a big hike ... was very scared I'd suffer a lot, but with this method everything went very well.

Hope this helps!

Thanks. However, the issue is not ingrown nails. The arch of the toenails, particularly at the edges, has been becoming more pronounced, curving down and into the nail bed. An extreme version of what is happening would cause the letter 'O' from the front....make sense??

Kris

We're on the same page, Kris.

Cutting the nail too close to the edges tends to make the nail grow more downwards as it looses support from the nailbed ...

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

As long as this heavy cream is virtually all fat, it should be OK too; I just have to find some somewhere. Since I seem to be living in The Land of Low Fat, any additional animal fat source I can add is welcome!

Hey Megan, I have found Organic Valley Heavy Whipping Cream at all the Whole Foods in my area. They are in a yellow milk container in pints and half pints.

That might work, if I can avoid the "ultra pasteurized" variety. I overlooked it because of the confusing name. It's just heavy cream, with no sugar added. 0 carbs; 0 protein. Thanks!

They only carry the ultra pasteurized variety of that brand (worst quality, best profit margin), but there is another local brand (Strauss) that has the same kind of product with low-temperature pasteurization, which is the best you can do in most stores around here. I have a couple of other stores to try that are not on my regular route, but this is a good start.

I don't think this type of cream is the same thick consistency as what Laura was writing about, but it is essentially protein free (0 on a nutritional label means less than 0.5), like butter, and should be OK to try.

The "cream" experiment is not working out for me. It would appear that the milk fat is what I have problems with. I doubt that I am allergic to the fat, but I suspected during my earlier elimination testing that it might have something to do with gut microorganisms feeding on it in some unhealthy way. Whatever is going on seems to be in my small intestine rather than my colon.

I could try again with the double-centrifuged cream, if I ever find any, but the cream I was using was already pretty much pure fat and it doesn't seem like making it thicker would help. Now I need to test butter and ghee again, eliminating them for perhaps a couple of months this time. It could explain some of the lingering problems.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The "cream" experiment is not working out for me. It would appear that the milk fat is what I have problems with. I doubt that I am allergic to the fat, but I suspected during my earlier elimination testing that it might have something to do with gut microorganisms feeding on it in some unhealthy way. Whatever is going on seems to be in my small intestine rather than my colon.

I could try again with the double-centrifuged cream, if I ever find any, but the cream I was using was already pretty much pure fat and it doesn't seem like making it thicker would help. Now I need to test butter and ghee again, eliminating them for perhaps a couple of months this time. It could explain some of the lingering problems.

I have doubts as to whether casein is fully removed from cream, even the thick non liquid one. I haven't read on it thoroughly yet though, but if that is the case maybe that's what's setting you off?
Personally I've had problems with butter which should be roughly within the same level of cream as far as casein is concerned (please correct me if I'm wrong), and have had none with ghee where casein is removed.

I was going to try cream, but after yesterday's bad experience with milk, and considering that cream may still hold a small percentage of casein, I won't try it any time soon. I've had abdominal pain since yesterday after trying sips, literally sips (1/4 glass roughly), of milk. My digestion is all over the place and the cramps don't seem to be diminishing.
I will not touch milk in any way shape or form again, that stuff is evil!

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The "cream" experiment is not working out for me. It would appear that the milk fat is what I have problems with. I doubt that I am allergic to the fat, but I suspected during my earlier elimination testing that it might have something to do with gut microorganisms feeding on it in some unhealthy way. Whatever is going on seems to be in my small intestine rather than my colon.

I could try again with the double-centrifuged cream, if I ever find any, but the cream I was using was already pretty much pure fat and it doesn't seem like making it thicker would help. Now I need to test butter and ghee again, eliminating them for perhaps a couple of months this time. It could explain some of the lingering problems.

I have doubts as to whether casein is fully removed from cream, even the thick non liquid one. I haven't read on it thoroughly yet though, but if that is the case maybe that's what's setting you off?
Personally I've had problems with butter which should be roughly within the same level of cream as far as casein is concerned (please correct me if I'm wrong), and have had none with ghee where casein is removed.

I was going to try cream, but after yesterday's bad experience with milk, and considering that cream may still hold a small percentage of casein, I won't try it any time soon. I've had abdominal pain since yesterday after trying sips, literally sips (1/4 glass roughly), of milk. My digestion is all over the place and the cramps don't seem to be diminishing.
I will not touch milk in any way shape or form again, that stuff is evil!

Same here ... although my "double cream" was only 48%. But I also had abdominal cramps after that, so I am throwing the cream out and have reverted back to butter. I also want to try ghee to see if there is any difference.

I combine coffee and butter and put the mix though a blender, which then looks exactly like a latte and is utterly delicious ... the only "side effect" I have noted are slightly lower BOHB levels in the blood (down to around 3.7 mmol/l) which is still comfortably in ketosis. Not sure if that is of any "clinical" significance.

At the end of this week I will stop my coffee experiment (for lack of coffee making equipment) for probably 3-4 weeks and maybe restart it after that - so I'll see if there is any change.

I have been feelng a bit tired lately and my muscles are aching, but I have attributed that to my excentric resistance training, which I have been pushing lately - not sure whether this is the dreaded (but welcome) adaptation to native mtDNA or something other. Time will tell ...

Psyche,

The same happened to my black tea experiment: slightly lower BOHB levels, but not sure if this is significant or not - levels still comfortably in ketosis (lower 4s ...). With the limited dataset I have (N=1) the effect on ketosis seems to be coffee > black tea > green tea ...

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

We know that coffee, like smoking stimulates the brain. We also know the gut is also a sort of brain. The coffee arrives in the gut first anyways, so it would make sense that a mental stimulant would also stimulate digestion?

I also had a potentially useful idea. Early ketoadaptions symptoms are often the result of electrolyte deficiency. We know that the inside of the mouth is very permeable which is why oil pulling works. Is it possible one could test electrolyte deficiencies by holding a given electrolyte such as potassium, sodium or whatnot in their mouth and observing how the taste changes over time as the needed nutrients are absorbed?

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm currently trying out the coffee experiment and am surprised that except for a very slight abdominal ache (that went away quickly) about 1/2 way to 3/4 through, it's gone down well. I decided to try it out with iced black coffee so that the ice would water it down as I drank it. Because I couldn't find the appropriate cream, I had a good deal of fat beforehand as well as bone broth to see if that would make up the difference.

What's very interesting is that coffee always made me 'go' within 1/2 hour of drinking it but I haven't experienced that at all.

If anyone does decide to try this experiment, I agree with others that a really good quality coffee should be used. As someone who really missed coffee, so far, I'm really liking this experiment!

I gave the coffee experiment a go this weekend, and it seems to be going well, so far. At first, I tried a decaf americano from the cafe near my work (it's an organic swiss water defaf, no caustic chemicals) and I used 35% cream in it since that's the highest cream you can get in Canada unless you find something imported. It seemed to go OK. Slight abdominal pain, as some others mentioned, but it was transient.

Then I went out of town to stay at my parent's place for the weekend for Thanksgiving festivities and was able to do some other experimenting. I had read some of the stuff posted here about "bulletproof coffee", the idea of blending grass-fed butter and MCT oil into coffee. I skipped the MCT oil and just used organic butter (grass-fed butter is also hard to come by in Canada). My first experiment was at my aunt's place for Thanksgiving dinner, where I didn't have access to a blender. I just plunked a tablespoon of butter into my post dinner decaf. It was OK. It didn't mix very well and just kind of floated on top of the coffee. I kept having to stir it to drink it. Also, I'm pretty sure it was salted butter, which made it kind of odd tasting.

The next day I took an imersion blender at my parents house and blended in some organic unsalted butter to the morning coffee. Holy cow, that was delicious! This would be a fantastic way to get extra fat into the diet - it's really tasty!

As for resolving the "not going" issue, it worked like a charm. The first day nothing much happened except for the abdominal pain (which may have been things stirring down below). The next day there was more abdominal pain and things actually started moving. It had been a week since my last movement, so things were hard and there was pushing required. By the end of the weekend, though, things seemed to have normalized.

Anyway, somewhat predictably, I went overboard on coffee yesterday and was feeling pretty buzzy still around bedtime when I was back from the weekend. This is obviously something I need to be careful with, so I skipped the coffee today. I'll probably resume later in the week.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Anyway, somewhat predictably, I went overboard on coffee yesterday and was feeling pretty buzzy still around bedtime when I was back from the weekend. This is obviously something I need to be careful with, so I skipped the coffee today. I'll probably resume later in the week.

I also get quite a buzz from the coffee, so I'll keep my dose to one double-shot long black (which I think is the equivalent of a americano) in the morning.

Another thing I noticed on another front ...

This last month I lived in a fairly cold climate (southern Australia) with temperatures between 6-10 deg C. I drank lots of broth and it felt quite good. This week I have returned to northern Australia in the tropics, where tempratures range from 24-38 deg C and my broth consumption has dropped considerably. I just doesn't taste the same.

Somehow it seems that climate has a great impact on the way we eat. Aboriginals traditionally used to eat lots of fat (fish, turtles, goannas etc.) but also had carbs (roots, fruit, water spinach etc). Wonder if one needs to adapt his or her diet according to the climate this person lives in.

Thankfully I'll return to much colder climes very soon ... :)

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have doubts as to whether casein is fully removed from cream, even the thick non liquid one. I haven't read on it thoroughly yet though, but if that is the case maybe that's what's setting you off?
Personally I've had problems with butter which should be roughly within the same level of cream as far as casein is concerned (please correct me if I'm wrong), and have had none with ghee where casein is removed...

It's possible that casein is causing the reaction, since ghee really doesn't seem to be a problem at all (I am going to test it again anyway). It wasn't a strong reaction, but the cream definitely gave me a bad feeling in my gut, on two different days. It's similar to the problems I had with raw milk cheese earlier when I tested that.

If I had several other good sources of fat then I would just avoid all forms of dairy, but I don't. I was getting quite a bit of fat from olives and avocados, but I am not eating those now either. That leaves coconut oil, bacon fat, and the considerable fat in the grass-fed beef and lamb that I buy, and in salami and sausage (which I don't eat much of).

I am hoping that butter tests OK, not only because it is a good source of fat but because I have a cache of pasture butter in my freezer for the fall (it's seasonal) and I don't want it to go to waste!

 

[PullingPins]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm so glad to finally have internet again, after so long not being able to get on the forum! I've been having huge problems with energy (as in, taking two-three hr naps every single day after work, or I can't function, and still sleeping all night long), even having done the whole paleo shebang for a year; though honestly, I've not been that strict here lately. So, I was very excited to see this new thread emerge.

I did jump in to KD immediately after reading the thread, even though I'm sure my system was not as clean as it could've been, because I am getting extremely depressed with my lack of energy and all that entails. I just am ready to break.

I've been doing the diet, close to 0 carbs, with IF, for about a week now, and I'm happy to say it seems to be making a difference so far. Today especially, even though I did take a nap, I feel absolutely great! I am hopeful, and that's really carrying me along. It's a little tough to be in the kitchen sometimes, since my family is eating the SAD, but overall the transition hasn't been bad (Well, there was that one dream about icecream?? ;D)

I bought some beef soup bones from the only butcher here. They were expensive, but I bought them anyway, since I've only had chicken broth thus far. My broth came out very watery, and I realize that's because of not enough bones and too much water. I really, really, really dislike the taste though. I know I'm not supposed to be using poultry, but until I can handle the beef, that's what I've been having. There's a lot of deer hunting here, and a friend of mine is supposed to be hooking me up with free deer bones in the next couple of days, so we'll see how that goes. I know that another poster had mentioned deer, but has anyone else tried that? Do you think it would be an acceptable substitute?

Also, I wanted to ask about the resistance exercises. I do jiu jitsu three or four days a week; is that and resistance training too much? I know you're supposed to give your body a break, but jiu jitsu is very important to me as well, and I'm not sure how to fit it all in.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've been doing the diet, close to 0 carbs, with IF, for about a week now, and I'm happy to say it seems to be making a difference so far. Today especially, even though I did take a nap, I feel absolutely great! I am hopeful, and that's really carrying me along. It's a little tough to be in the kitchen sometimes, since my family is eating the SAD, but overall the transition hasn't been bad (Well, there was that one dream about icecream?? ;D)

Good to hear PullingPins, it takes a little persisting but once you cross that threshold it is well worth the effort.

I know I'm not supposed to be using poultry, but until I can handle the beef, that's what I've been having. There's a lot of deer hunting here, and a friend of mine is supposed to be hooking me up with free deer bones in the next couple of days, so we'll see how that goes. I know that another poster had mentioned deer, but has anyone else tried that? Do you think it would be an acceptable substitute?

Personally I have been using poultry and any bones I can get my hands on. I use all of the leftover bones from my meals for bone broths. I do, however, buy from farms I trust. In UK it's hard to find chicken that's not exclusively grain fed, but it is still possible to do so, and all of my meat is ordered online, I can't find it properly raised and fed very easily otherwise.

Also, I wanted to ask about the resistance exercises. I do jiu jitsu three or four days a week; is that and resistance training too much? I know you're supposed to give your body a break, but jiu jitsu is very important to me as well, and I'm not sure how to fit it all in.

I think that it highly depends on your physical condition as well as what you're body is used to. Personally, I exercise many hours a week, sometimes up to 6 hrs a day, occasionally 7, because that's my job. I've been doing it for years and my body is simply used to that. The form of exercise I do is light, so I feel energized rather then drained afterwards, and I do get two days off without exercising.
Obviously for someone completely unprepared doing this amount of hours would be unthinkable. My take is that if you have been doing jiu jitsu regularly adding some resistance training won't be a bad idea. You may feel a bit more tired initially since you are pushing your body beyond what is currently used to, but you'll quickly tend to get used to a new routine, as long as you don't go too fast, too soon, and get some good rest in between. This has been my personal experience as well as from working with others.

 

[Gawan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I tried to get double creme, but without any succes and could only get cremé fraiche with 30% fat. So I ate something in the evening and I felt light headed and a bit dizzy overall. At first I thought it was cause I did cycle a lot that day too, so I left something for next morning to give it another test. So I did that and it seems I don't tolerate it and have kind of a dizzy feeling/light muscles for several hours, but no stomach problems. And in any way it doesn't taste that good with black tea, so butter is the way to go :).

I bought some beef soup bones from the only butcher here. They were expensive, but I bought them anyway, since I've only had chicken broth thus far. My broth came out very watery, and I realize that's because of not enough bones and too much water. I really, really, really dislike the taste though.

Have you tried pig-bones? Personally I also don't like beef-(marrow)bones.

Another thing I noticed on another front ...

This last month I lived in a fairly cold climate (southern Australia) with temperatures between 6-10 deg C. I drank lots of broth and it felt quite good. This week I have returned to northern Australia in the tropics, where tempratures range from 24-38 deg C and my broth consumption has dropped considerably. I just doesn't taste the same.

Somehow it seems that climate has a great impact on the way we eat. Aboriginals traditionally used to eat lots of fat (fish, turtles, goannas etc.) but also had carbs (roots, fruit, water spinach etc). Wonder if one needs to adapt his or her diet according to the climate this person lives in.

Thankfully I'll return to much colder climes very soon ... :)

That's interesting to know and comes to an individual basis, where one lives, how much fat to eat etc. But it should get a bit warmer soon in SA too ;).

And thanks again for the study.

To give a minor conclusion of Aguirre Castaneda et al. (_dx.doi.org/10.1542/peds.2011-0741) and Dressler et al. (_dx.doi.org/10.1111/j.1528-1167.2010.02543.x). So far there have been no big studies been done as already said. Two studies are about one case each of very young children (2 and about 3 years), so there is no chance of direct feedback from the test people and most often the parents did stop the experiment at one point (entirely or continued it again). The concept of a ketogenic diet is also varying, one child still got about 30 grs of carbs. But the conclusions seemed to be promising (much better glycemic control), as far as it can be said with just two cases.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

But it should get a bit warmer soon in SA too ;).

By then I'll be even further south!

 

[penelope75]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

hi all. brand new here. this is one of the things i have been looking for, but wasn't when i found it. i believe i have an unhealthy relationship with grains. i would like to modify this. i'm currently in the position to fast quite nicely but would please like some guidance. i eat all the time. and nearly always theres some form of grain. how do you get past the cravings? how do you "kickstart" the process? thanks!

 

[Gawan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

hi all. brand new here. this is one of the things i have been looking for, but wasn't when i found it. i believe i have an unhealthy relationship with grains. i would like to modify this. i'm currently in the position to fast quite nicely but would please like some guidance. i eat all the time. and nearly always theres some form of grain. how do you get past the cravings? how do you "kickstart" the process? thanks!

Welcome penelope75, the only advice that I could give is, read at first as much information as possible before doing any experiments, so that you do yourself no harm.

I.e. the huge topic of "Life without bread" topic ist the best starter and with it's suggested books: Life without bread, Primal Body, Primal Mind, Vegetarian myth and others. Primal body, Primal mind gives for example suggestions against these cravings if I remember it correctly.

Fwiw.

 

[PullingPins]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Personally I have been using poultry and any bones I can get my hands on. I use all of the leftover bones from my meals for bone broths. I do, however, buy from farms I trust. In UK it's hard to find chicken that's not exclusively grain fed, but it is still possible to do so, and all of my meat is ordered online, I can't find it properly raised and fed very easily otherwise.

Yes, that's a big part of my poultry problem, too. I live in a very small place, coincidentally with a lot of farming; you'd think it'd be easier to find a proper chicken! Even through the only butcher here, I'm not positive any of their meat is raised right. That's another benefit of the deer, I guess, since they're eating their natural diets.

Have you tried pig-bones? Personally I also don't like beef-(marrow)bones.

I have not yet tried pig bones. I tossed a couple small ones from a meal into my chicken broth, but it didn't make much of a taste difference. I will definitely try it, though. Are the feet the best bones to use?