Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Cosmos

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I found two pretty good factual video Presentations from scientists about saturated Fats, cholesterol and carbohydrates and the unbelievable corruption of science in this area:

Professor of surgery, cardiothoracic division Dr. Miller:

Enjoy Eating Saturated Fats: They're Good for You. Donald W. Miller, Jr., M.D.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRe9z32NZHY&feature=my_watch_later_videos&list=WL43E62C54DBAD1D9A

Dr. Miller is professor of surgery,cardiothoracic division , Univ. Washington, and writes frequently for http://www.Lewrockwell.com.

he believed the official established way of what is supposed to be healthy to eat for a human being and causes heart diseases and such and worked with his patients according to this Dogma and later discovered that he was completely wrong.

I think he makes this presentation infront of colleagues and is a bit nervous.

well worth watching
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Proffessor David M. Diamond, Ph.D. (Department of Psychology Cognitive, Neural and Social Division):

How Bad Science and Big Business Created the Obesity Epidemic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vr-c8GeT34&feature=my_watch_later_videos&list=WL43E62C54DBAD1D9A

David Diamond, Ph.D., of the University of South Florida College of Arts and Sciences shares his personal story about his battle with obesity. Diamond shows how he lost weight and reduced his triglycerides by eating red meat, eggs and butter.

unfortunately he throws the baby out with the bath water at the end of his actually pretty good researched presentation when he tries to make the point that one of the biggest contributors to the increase of heart disease is smoking, shifting much blame on it. he actually says "everybody knows that cigarettes cause lung cancer..." and such.

In short he really should have studied the smoking thing as deeply as he has researched saturaded fats, cholesterol and carbohydrates before making such statements.

because in the end everybody knows that saturaded fat and cholesterol is bad too, and it isn't!
so he could have made the obvious connection to look into that widely known smoking thing critically too...
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Ailén said:
Omitting the technical details, what it comes down to, I think, is that "skinny people" with a "high metabolism may ALSO have mitochondrial mutations. Instead of producing enough ATP (the body's "battery"), they burn whatever they eat very fast, as heat. So, by doing these adjustments in the diet, would we find that the mitochondria gets healed (more of the wild mitochondria being activated/healed), and therefore, skinny people would have more energy (ATP) and possibly gain a few pounds with the workout and the good use and storage of fat? I don't know, and this may be too simplistic, but I think there is a possibility there.

This makes sense to me. Others throughout my life have commented on how warm I am, even in the winter. My wife always cuddles up next to me when she is cold, citing how warm I am. So all these years the large amounts of food I ate were quickly being converted to heat energy, instead of adding body weight and mass.

Last week I bottomed out at 122 lbs., but now I am up to 125 lbs. with no changes in diet or volume of food eaten. I was wondering how this could happen, so it is possible Ailen is on to something here. I will be monitoring weight in comparison to intake volume to be sure it is not a volume increase effect. Maybe it is just my thought process, but I actually find it fun to experiment with all of this. I have always liked to run experiments, but I never would have thought I would one day be the subject of them.

My experience has been pretty typical of the other skinny member's experiences, although a couple of days that I did not intake enough salt it was very apparent. I'm not sure it is wise for me to try to IF yet being so new to this, so I am going to wait awhile longer for my body to adjust before attempting to do it.
 

nicklebleu

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

As an aside ... most ketone sticks only measure acetone and not beta-hydroxybutyrate.

The commonly used urine dipstick tests are based on the use of a nitroprusside reaction (Ketostix, Acetest) and give a semi-quantitative measure of acetoacetate, react weakly with acetone but do not register the presence of beta-hydroxybutyrate (β-OHB). Acetone is responsible for the characteristic ‘pear-drop’ smell present in DKA, but does not contribute to acidosis. In DKA, the ratio of β-OHB to acetoacetate increases from 1:1 to as much as 5:1 and thus β-OHB is the predominant ketone body contributing to the acidosis.2 When acidosis resolves with treatment, β-OHB is oxidized to acetoacetate. Under these circumstances, urine tests may give the misleading impression that ketosis is not improving, and from a practical point of view there can be a problem obtaining urine samples from severely dehydrated patients at the time of presentation. Blood ketones can now be measured directly with a hand-held sensor (Optium meter, Medisense/Abbott) which measures β-OHB in 30 s using blood from a fingerprick test.3 The meter has been shown to be reliable, with accuracy and precision that is well within acceptable clinical limits.3,,4 The use of blood ketone tests based on the measurement of β-OHB, rather than urine ketone tests, for diagnosis and monitoring of DKA, is now recommended by the American Diabetes Association.5

this is from:

Q J Med 2004; 97:773–780

Recent advances in the monitoring and management
of diabetic ketoacidosis

T.M. WALLACE and D.R. MATTHEWS

From the Oxford Centre for Diabetes, Endocrinology and Metabolism,
Churchill Hospital, Oxford, UK

This article talks about diagnosis of ketoacidosis in diabetics - which is not the same! But the measuring principles remain the same.

So a negative ketostix is not necessarily indicative for not being in ketosis. it would be better to use the blood test - unfortunately the ketone test sticks are very expensive (around 1 AUD per stick).

ADDED: The reason the stick might be negative while a person is still in ketosis is the fact that at the start of the diet acetone and beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) are produced in equal amounts, but this ratio shifts greatly towards BHB the longer one is in ketosis. Eventually acetone is not excreted in the urine in significant enough quantities to be measured with the stick.
 

nicklebleu

The Living Force
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Found another interesting article here...

Low-carb diets, fasting and euphoria: Is there a link between ketosis and gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB)?
Andrew J. Brown *
School of Biotechnology and Biomolecular Sciences, The University of New South Wales, Sydney 2052,
Australia

Medical Hypotheses (2007) 68, 268–271

Anecdotal evidence links the initial phase of fasting or a low-carbohydrate diet with feelings of well-being
and mild euphoria. These feelings have often been attributed to ketosis, the production of ketone bodies which can
replace glucose as an energy source for the brain. One of these ketone bodies, b-hydroxybutyrate (BHB), is an isomer of
the notorious drug of abuse, GHB (c-hydroxybutyrate). GHB is also of interest in relation to its potential as a treatment
for alcohol and opiate dependence and narcolepsy-associated cataplexy. Here I hypothesize that, the mild euphoria
often noted with fasting or low-carbohydrate diets may be due to shared actions of BHB and GHB on the brain.
Specifically, I propose that BHB, like GHB, induces mild euphoria by being a weak partial agonist for GABAB receptors.
I outline several approaches that would test the hypothesis, including receptor binding studies in cultured cells,
perception studies in trained rodents, and psychometric testing and functional magnetic resonance imaging in humans.
These and other studies investigating whether BHB and GHB share common effects on brain chemistry and mood are
timely and warranted, especially when considering their structural similarities and the popularity of ketogenic diets
and GHB as a drug of abuse.

It's only a hypothesis and has not been tested at all, but I found it interesting nevertheless.
 

Laura

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Update on progress: I had a good day yesterday, even felt like doing a little weed-whacking in the afternoon.

We have made a little mixture of liver pate and freshly rendered lard that is about 70% pure fat that we glop on a lettuce leaf, roll it up and call it a "Spring Roll". It's delicious, believe it or not! So, had a couple of those late in the afternoon. I came up to my desk to get some things done and by 9 pm I felt like I just could not keep my eyes open. So, I went to bed and to sleep. I woke up at 3:20 a.m. and just could NOT go back to sleep. I didn't really feel like getting up and doing anything in particular, but since my whole body was just restless, I got up and sat in the chair for awhile, in the dark, drinking a glass of water. After awhile, I decided to turn the computer on and check the weather and the forum. Did that. Went back to bed at almost 5 a.m. I was totally miserable. My legs hurt and I just could not get comfortable. Eventually, however, I did get back to sleep. I woke up at 9:30 with a headache. Got up and drank water, went back to bed. Woke up just after 10 a.m. Felt groggy as heck, slight headache still, so I got up and went down and had a small breakfast: 3 pieces of bacon and a small (3 in diameter) sausage patty.

I do feel like something is going on in my body and like two systems are sort of at war or it is hard to switch over. Today is my day in the gym so we'll see what happens after that.

I'm just trying to get things done, but I definitely am not the sharpest knife in the drawer right now nor do I feel really good. But I am persisting.
 

truth seeker

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've had the same sleep issue for at least a couple of months now it not longer. I'm thinking that it may be the recent dietary changes you're undergoing. I'm wondering if the body may not require as much sleep when on this diet. Perhaps because the body is becoming more fuel efficient?

I too have tried going back to sleep and have experienced the same or similar results upon waking up from a second 'nap'. Maybe the next time try a bit of bone broth or lard tea instead of water?

The next time I experience this (probably tonight), I'll test this out (the tea and staying awake), see where it takes me and report back.
 

Hesper

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan said:
The research article by the same name and from the same author is available at
_http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/7/1/7

Thank you! I'm just starting my daily scavenge into the literature so this is a great place to start.

Laura said:
I'm just trying to get things done, but I definitely am not the sharpest knife in the drawer right now nor do I feel really good. But I am persisting.

:flowers:
 

Oxajil

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

QuantumLogic said:
Ailén said:
Omitting the technical details, what it comes down to, I think, is that "skinny people" with a "high metabolism may ALSO have mitochondrial mutations. Instead of producing enough ATP (the body's "battery"), they burn whatever they eat very fast, as heat. So, by doing these adjustments in the diet, would we find that the mitochondria gets healed (more of the wild mitochondria being activated/healed), and therefore, skinny people would have more energy (ATP) and possibly gain a few pounds with the workout and the good use and storage of fat? I don't know, and this may be too simplistic, but I think there is a possibility there.

This makes sense to me. Others throughout my life have commented on how warm I am, even in the winter. My wife always cuddles up next to me when she is cold, citing how warm I am. So all these years the large amounts of food I ate were quickly being converted to heat energy, instead of adding body weight and mass.

Last week I bottomed out at 122 lbs., but now I am up to 125 lbs. with no changes in diet or volume of food eaten. I was wondering how this could happen, so it is possible Ailen is on to something here. I will be monitoring weight in comparison to intake volume to be sure it is not a volume increase effect. Maybe it is just my thought process, but I actually find it fun to experiment with all of this. I have always liked to run experiments, but I never would have thought I would one day be the subject of them.

Same here. I'm one of the skinny people and I had quite a fast metabolism prior to any dietary changes I've made. Whatever I ate or how much, I was never able to gain any weight. But I've been observing that throughout the years of healing my gut and allowing it to "change gears", my metabolism has changed a lot. It seems to be much slower and more efficient than before, as if I'm utilizing what I eat as best as my system can. Now I have to be careful with not overeating, because I will gain fat. Which is what happened when I ate too much protein at some point, making me gain 7 kilo's. The extra weight made me feel dense and it gave me headaches as well. So what I did then is reducing my protein amount according to Gedgaudas' guidelines, upping my fat intake, and moving around and about, and soon enough I lost those 7 kilo's again!

When I look back it looks a lot like intermittent fasting since I had very small meals with a lot of time in between each meal, so in a way I was doing it without knowing. Now hopefully with resistance training, IF and keeping my meals in check, I can gain some weight the right way. I'm also keeping a diet journal, which I find quite helpful.

truth seeker said:
The next time I experience this (probably tonight), I'll test this out (the tea and staying awake), see where it takes me and report back.

Interesting to see if that will work truth seeker! I also have been experiencing this ''waking up in the middle of the night'' thing, on and off for the last couple of months. Just last night I woke up in the middle of the night, my mind being crystal clear, energy being up, etc. but in an instant I realized that it's not the usual time to get up... so I tried to get back into a deep sleep, but it didn't work, so eventually I went outside and had a smoke and went back to sleep. That helped, a smoke usually helps me reminding my body that I need a few hours of sleep (which I really did need). I also woke up groggy (and one of my ears sometimes gets shut for a while or I get that buzzy sound), but did feel fully rested. Ate a small breakfast, took a (cold) shower and I was all good again. Sometimes getting back to sleep once I'm awaken works though. I think I usually get this when I go to sleep early, which is 9 or 10 PM, but I'm going to have to observe some more and keep a track of this to be sure. Hope you feel better soon Laura!
 

MK Scarlett

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Ailén said:
Below area the links to all the articles we've been reading, except from those already linked to by Laura. In chronological order:

The Nervous System and Metabolic Dysregulation: Emerging Evidence Converges on Ketogenic Diet Therapy
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312079/

Decline in Mitochondrial Bioenergetics and Shift to Ketogenic Profile in Brain During Reproductive Senescence
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3200365/?tool=pmcentrez

Resistance training in overweight women on a ketogenic diet conserved lean body mass while reducing body fat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2845587/?tool=pmcentrez

Nutrition, epigenetics, and developmental plasticity: implications for understanding human disease.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20415585

Reduced Pain and Inflammation in Juvenile and Adult Rats Fed a Ketogenic Diet
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2796387/?tool=pubmed

A very low carbohydrate ketogenic diet improves glucose tolerance in ob/ob mice independently of weight loss
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781352/

Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/?tool=pmcentrez

Ketogenic Ratio, Calories and Fluids: Do They Matter?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2656445/?tool=pmcentrez

Effects of a high-protein ketogenic diet on hunger, appetite, and weight loss in obese men feeding ad libitum.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175736

The ketogenic diet: from molecular mechanisms to clinical effects.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16523530

Neuroprotective and disease-modifying effects of the ketogenic diet
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/

Ketogenic diets and physical performance
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2/

Long-term effects of a ketogenic diet in obese patients
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/?tool=pmcentrez

It has been a fascinating read so far. I'd like to second Laura about the importance of reading all this with a grain of salt. You can see how biased and "unscientific" some of these papers are. (I left out two which were plain garbage.) But once in a while, they provide some data that could be a piece of the puzzle.

This NCBI website has about 400 papers on the Ketogenic diet, so you can all look for some more. I've got about 20 on my to-read list.

I always am reading them and found many fascinating datas inside. Thank you for these very important links in the understandable of KD and its interaction with cells. And as I am experimenting fasting in the same time, I will report for it during the week. But I already can say by needing to not lose weight, I feel "light". Let's see what is happening during the EE session... :flowers:
 

sebbe

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

truth seeker said:
I've had the same sleep issue for at least a couple of months now it not longer. I'm thinking that it may be the recent dietary changes you're undergoing. I'm wondering if the body may not require as much sleep when on this diet. Perhaps because the body is becoming more fuel efficient?

...

I think too this diet could require much sleep. More than before the diet, if i don't sleep enough ( env. 8 - 9 hours) i feel very bad, and i notice i must go in bed absolutly before 9h30 to have a good sleep. If not, i have no energy and i feel as if i'm not present in my body.
 

aragorn

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

sebbe said:
truth seeker said:
I've had the same sleep issue for at least a couple of months now it not longer. I'm thinking that it may be the recent dietary changes you're undergoing. I'm wondering if the body may not require as much sleep when on this diet. Perhaps because the body is becoming more fuel efficient?

...

I think too this diet could require much sleep. More than before the diet, if i don't sleep enough ( env. 8 - 9 hours) i feel very bad, and i notice i must go in bed absolutly before 9h30 to have a good sleep. If not, i have no energy and i feel as if i'm not present in my body.

I think that what truth seeker is suggesting, is that it may well be that we need less sleep while on the ketogenic diet. At least, that's what I've noticed. Ever since I started restricting my protein intake, a few months ago, I started waking up very early. Nowdays, I need like 5,5-6 hours of sleep. After that I just can't sleep anymore, I'm wide awake and "charged". But some days are better that others, and I still haven't completely solved the problem of fatigue in the afternoon.

The last couple of days I've done semi-fasting, skipping lunch and eating very little at dinner. What I've noticed is that my heart rate is quite high,and the body feels tired but the mind is sharper. Definitely a tug of war between two "something" going on. Since I've been on the LCHF diet over a year now, I feel confident to try a couple of days of total fasting and see if that changes anything. I hope I'll get to the "other side" soon... :)
 

Psalehesost

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Ailén said:
Omitting the technical details, what it comes down to, I think, is that "skinny people" with a "high metabolism may ALSO have mitochondrial mutations. Instead of producing enough ATP (the body's "battery"), they burn whatever they eat very fast, as heat. So, by doing these adjustments in the diet, would we find that the mitochondria gets healed (more of the wild mitochondria being activated/healed), and therefore, skinny people would have more energy (ATP) and possibly gain a few pounds with the workout and the good use and storage of fat? I don't know, and this may be too simplistic, but I think there is a possibility there.

Wonder how I fit in - while one of the skinnies (and have thus far been unable to gain any significant weight), rather than having high body heat it's the opposite - at any rate when it comes to the extremities.
 

sebbe

Jedi
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Aragorn said:
sebbe said:
truth seeker said:
I've had the same sleep issue for at least a couple of months now it not longer. I'm thinking that it may be the recent dietary changes you're undergoing. I'm wondering if the body may not require as much sleep when on this diet. Perhaps because the body is becoming more fuel efficient?

...

I think too this diet could require much sleep. More than before the diet, if i don't sleep enough ( env. 8 - 9 hours) i feel very bad, and i notice i must go in bed absolutly before 9h30 to have a good sleep. If not, i have no energy and i feel as if i'm not present in my body.

I think that what truth seeker is suggesting, is that it may well be that we need less sleep while on the ketogenic diet. At least, that's what I've noticed. Ever since I started restricting my protein intake, a few months ago, I started waking up very early. Nowdays, I need like 5,5-6 hours of sleep. After that I just can't sleep anymore, I'm wide awake and "charged". But some days are better that others, and I still haven't completely solved the problem of fatigue in the afternoon.

The last couple of days I've done semi-fasting, skipping lunch and eating very little at dinner. What I've noticed is that my heart rate is quite high,and the body feels tired but the mind is sharper. Definitely a tug of war between two "something" going on. Since I've been on the LCHF diet over a year now, I feel confident to try a couple of days of total fasting and see if that changes anything. I hope I'll get to the "other side" soon... :)

I am sorry, i completely misunderstood meaning of words.
 

monotonic

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Oxajil, can you explain what happens to your ears in more detail? What triggers your ear issues and what helps? I learned just after reading your post that my eustachian tubes must have been having difficulties for a long time. My ears crackle every time I swallow. When I was young, I learned to get around this by holding my nose and sucking in; this would pull air out of my middle ear. The negative pressure would hold the eustachian tube closed while swallowing, as long as I swallowed lightly. I got so good at this I can open my eustachian tubes intentionally at any time, without swallowing. After years of doing this my ears became less sensitive to the pressure allowing me to keep them in this state most of the time by using more pressure. My eardrums seem to have been stretched at this point so they pop in or out but not in between. I think my ears should heal from this because I know it is possible to heal from a perforated eardrum. But this sensation could also be a sticky eustachian tube maybe. I have stopped this strange habit along with cracking my neck (stopping habits is easier when on a lower-carb, gluten free diet I discovered), and after a while my ears seem to reset normally when swallowing. But the crackling is still present. I didn't realize this could be a sign of inflammation, sensitivity or allergies.

If less sleep is being had, I think it is important to determine what part of the sleep cycle it is being taken from.

I am another one of the skinny people and the idea about heat is rather interesting. On days I eat a lot of carbs (usually some form buckwheat, I'd say 300-400g), I will feel waves of heat through my body. It is as though it is in an excited state, unable to calm down. It makes me sweat under the covers. I have found it has helped to do pipe breathing and imagine feeling my body cooling. Once the heat was overwhelming and then quickly stopped while doing this. Since I live near the equator where is is very hot and our car has no air conditioner, I find I am able to stay cool enough to keep from sweating under my leather jacket if I do this.

In addition to this it might be interesting to know that I found a lot of my gastrointestinal inflammation symptoms went away when I practiced self-acceptance as a way of de-stressing as I believe was suggested several pages back. So at least for me, the psychosomatic dimension may factor largely in inflammation. I was very stressed at the time about how many carbs I was eating and so on, and the stress took the form of a tense gut.

We know that some people are able to go out in blizzards with no clothing and somehow stay warm so I wonder if this might be related to a natural way the body has of producing warmth directly from food?

Also, we made homemade lactofermented sauerkraut. That stuff really worked for me. After lowering stress, it is the second thing which has had a positive effect on my stools (to soften them). There was also an immediate improvement in being able to get to sleep. It seemed the sauerkraut jump started my body rhythm. For one, I fell asleep more immediately, and I also woke up sooner feeling more rested. I'd say about 2 or 3 hours sooner (so from about 11 hours to 8 hours or less). I also had the sensation of getting leery-eyed around bedtime which I have not had in ages. Sauerkraut also tastes great in burgers, meatloaf (we made burgers and Qinoa meatloaf from a huge grassfed beef heart, using a handcranked meatgrinder we got form an antique store).
 
H

Hildegarda

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psalehesost said:
Ailén said:
Omitting the technical details, what it comes down to, I think, is that "skinny people" with a "high metabolism [..] burn whatever they eat very fast, as heat.
Wonder how I fit in - while one of the skinnies (and have thus far been unable to gain any significant weight), rather than having high body heat it's the opposite - at any rate when it comes to the extremities.


IMO there's no contradiction. What is your resting body temperature? What do other people say about how hot or cool you feel when they are cuddling next to you? My temperature is always on a higher side, and I am known as "the furnace" in the family, yet my feet and hands also get cold easily, and I am skinny. It's consistent: I produce a lot of body heat and lose it quickly. FWIW.
 
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