Killary Clinton, The Donald, or Jill Stein: The US Election

[Alada]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

In the end any thinking person here should know it is a total farce, but it is a farce that may be positive for the world in the future. A Trump 'upset' seems more likely to accelerate that along than more of the same at this point, although it may not matter at all. And we should also be aware that it is a possibility that the Secret Government are still more cunning than we give them credit for: that they have slipped in Trump as their actual favoured candidate.

Yup, I’ve been thinking along similar lines. Voting for either candidate in the hope that things are going get better based on what they’re promising is totally misguided. Believing lies is very damaging to health!

As Carl mentioned, Trump does say some interesting things from the pov of it seemingly going against the established elite / control system. So that lends a little weight to wondering what might happen should he get in, but to my mind, more from the perspective that it will be safer (at least initially) for the rest of us out here in in the non-exceptional world.

A Clinton administration will waste no time in ramping up the death and destruction worldwide, with Trump I’m more inclined to think that he would usher in a period of internal domestic chaos initially. That in itself might trigger all kinds of in fighting and unpredictable events, and who knows what may get revealed globally if the US is withdrawn from its current positions. Trump has said he wants to massively increase military spending though.

Long term I don’t think it looks good either way, they will both leave chaos in their wake, with Clinton you know it’s pretty much just made of death and further empowering the establishment. With Trump who knows what’s gonna get thrown into the mix – may you live in interesting times!

I wouldn’t vote for either of them, to do so would be to vote for a reality that I do NOT wish to see coalesce, and do NOT wish to lose my free will to. To believe otherwise in the "hope" of a different outcome would be nothing more than wishful thinking. Or so I think.

 

[Nienna]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

Long term I don’t think it looks good either way, they will both leave chaos in their wake, with Clinton you know it’s pretty much just made of death and further empowering the establishment. With Trump who knows what’s gonna get thrown into the mix – may you live in interesting times!

I wouldn’t vote for either of them, to do so would be to vote for a reality that I do NOT wish to see coalesce, and do NOT wish to lose my free will to. To believe otherwise in the "hope" of a different outcome would be nothing more than wishful thinking. Or so I think.

I totally agree!

 

[Niall]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

Woodsman is correct that we've softened our stance on 'Trump-as-new-Hitler', in part because his jarringly racist statements have been toned down as he became a serious candidate, but it's also informed by our understanding that the US system is structurally 'locked-in' to an ideology (and a methodology) that has been so successful for about a century that its precepts have become tautology: the US is the 'exceptional' standard-bearer of 'liberty and freedom and democracy', thus the way it does business is always justified.

Whatever Trump says on his way to power, once in power the inertia of 'how things are done' would likely 'correct his course'. The 'US government' (in which I include major corporations and banks because it's impossible to tell where one ends and the others begin) is so vast and international at this point that it can swallow crusaders - even crusading US presidents - without suffering a major setback in its operations.

Regarding Trump vs Clinton, it's hard to see which way the wind is blowing on this. Just when it seemed like 'the whole establishment' had set it up for Killary, with Trump playing the 'pied pier' they would pitch her against, thus delivering her certain victory, they drop a bombshell on her lap just before the election. Was that always gonna happen? Or did they just decide that recently when they realized their initial plan backfired because Trump is more popular than 'their candidate'? Or has it nothing to do with what 'the people' want, and rather they just, on balance, dislike Clinton more?

Would Trump, once in power, 'go Nazi'? That's still a possibility, though less probable, I think, than we first thought. Would Trump, once in power, clean house and retake control of US foreign policy (and redirect it away from plundering and pillaging and back towards 19th century isolationism)? That's possible too, but what a monumental and courageous undertaking that would take. And what a miracle it would take for him to survive taking on Wall Street, the Pentagon, etc.

In the end, with either Trump or Clinton in power, that same inertia I mentioned above seems certain to continue playing out: expect more Syrias, more TTIPs, more police brutality, more riots, more unemployment, more homelessness, and more devolution of society.

 

[axj]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

Long term I don’t think it looks good either way, they will both leave chaos in their wake, with Clinton you know it’s pretty much just made of death and further empowering the establishment. With Trump who knows what’s gonna get thrown into the mix – may you live in interesting times!

I wouldn’t vote for either of them, to do so would be to vote for a reality that I do NOT wish to see coalesce, and do NOT wish to lose my free will to. To believe otherwise in the "hope" of a different outcome would be nothing more than wishful thinking. Or so I think.

I totally agree!

I think another way to look at it is that the US cannot avoid chaos of some sort at this point. With Clinton it looks more likely that this will result in foreign policy aggression as well, while Trump seems more reasonable in this important area. I think he is the better candidate due to his stance on Russia alone, even if he does not go through on "draining the swamp" of political corruption.

As to TTIP, he says that he would stop it and instead negotiate trade deals with each country individually.

Due to the fact that Trump offers a possibility (even if it isn't large) of some real positive change, he is definitely preferrable to Killary. So voting for that slight possibility is a good thing and has nothing to do with denying reality, in my opinion.

 

[Navigator]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

In the end, with either Trump or Clinton in power, that same inertia I mentioned above seems certain to continue playing out: expect more Syrias, more TTIPs, more police brutality, more riots, more unemployment, more homelessness, and more devolution of society.

That's how I see it currently too. Even if Trump is being a conduit for the anger and frustration of millions of Americans, he is still a narcissist that would say anything to get elected, and to appeal to a right leaning population with a nationalistic tone is one of those ways - just as Obama did the same for the left progressives and liberals in '08, and we know how that ended.

Does he has a chance against what JFK talked about in this speech?

For we are opposed, around the world, by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence; in infiltration instead of invasion; on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice; on guerillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific, and political operations. Its preparations are concealed not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined, its dissenters are silenced, not praised; no expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the cold war, in short, with a wartime discipline no democracy would ever hope to wish to match. ...

 

[Turgon]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

Long term I don’t think it looks good either way, they will both leave chaos in their wake, with Clinton you know it’s pretty much just made of death and further empowering the establishment. With Trump who knows what’s gonna get thrown into the mix – may you live in interesting times!

I wouldn’t vote for either of them, to do so would be to vote for a reality that I do NOT wish to see coalesce, and do NOT wish to lose my free will to. To believe otherwise in the "hope" of a different outcome would be nothing more than wishful thinking. Or so I think.

I totally agree!

I think another way to look at it is that the US cannot avoid chaos of some sort at this point. With Clinton it looks more likely that this will result in foreign policy aggression as well, while Trump seems more reasonable in this important area. I think he is the better candidate due to his stance on Russia alone, even if he does not go through on "draining the swamp" of political corruption.

As to TTIP, he says that he would stop it and instead negotiate trade deals with each country individually.

Due to the fact that Trump offers a possibility (even if it isn't large) of some real positive change, he is definitely preferrable to Killary. So voting for that slight possibility is a good thing and has nothing to do with denying reality, in my opinion.

It's not so much that he might offer the possibility of a positive change as much as his ego and inflated sense of himself might actually get in the way of speeding up certain plans that are already in motion, plans that Clinton would have probably gone into head first - like escalating conflict with Russia. Kind of like throwing a wrench in the US machine that might slow it down long enough for Russia or the East to capitalize on it in some way.

Furthermore, I really don't see how securing a border against illegal crossings is somehow taken as such a horrible thing.

Securing a border is one thing, but building a giant wall with Trump's name on it is even better! ;D

 

[axj]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

Due to the fact that Trump offers a possibility (even if it isn't large) of some real positive change, he is definitely preferrable to Killary. So voting for that slight possibility is a good thing and has nothing to do with denying reality, in my opinion.

It's not so much that he might offer the possibility of a positive change as much as his ego and inflated sense of himself might actually get in the way of speeding up certain plans that are already in motion, plans that Clinton would have probably gone into head first - like escalating conflict with Russia. Kind of like throwing a wrench in the US machine that might slow it down long enough for Russia or the East to capitalize on it in some way.

Maybe change is not the right word for it. I think a better way to put it is that Trump offers a higher probability of a positive outcome for the US and the world. "Getting in the way of speeding certain plans up", as you put it, is such a positive outcome - whether due to his narcissism or something else. Though I'm not sure actually that Trump would really slow down "certain plans", as the elites may decide to blame an economic crash on him, or something like that.

 

[luc]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

I found this CrossTalk rather good - the guy from the Duran in London especially made me laugh a couple of times. It's such a serious situation with this election farce, the wars etc., but it was good to laugh a little with the hosts about the grotesque ridiculousness that is Western discourse.

http://<iframe width="560" height="...98" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Alada]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

Maybe change is not the right word for it. I think a better way to put it is that Trump offers a higher probability of a positive outcome for the US and the world. "Getting in the way of speeding certain plans up", as you put it, is such a positive outcome - whether due to his narcissism or something else. Though I'm not sure actually that Trump would really slow down "certain plans", as the elites may decide to blame an economic crash on him, or something like that.

I think we have to be careful we don’t slip into wishful thinking, tempting as it may be. We live in a manipulated reality, that where politics is concerned is built on lies, manipulation and deception, as history shows time and time again. The decision to believe these lies by placing one candidate above the other and voting for them in false hopes, may be potentially be very important I think.

By allowing ourselves to be manipulated into taking part in the system, in the well intentioned but false hope that it will make a difference, on a deeper level by doing that I think we’re then "saying hello" to manifesting a certain kind of reality. That reality is one where it’s business as usual in terms of those that "create reality", because everyone’s still wishfully hooked into the system, giving their tacit approval to whatever unfolds next.

In effect wouldn’t we be contributing to exactly what we don’t want to happen? That by wishful-voting we’re abridging our own free will and all that that implies in terms of the reality we are "agreeing" to. Stakes are potentially very high in that regard.

At this point in time, best I can make of it all is to remember that according to the Cs it’s important for there to be objective observers as the process unfolds. In those terms, the vote which really matters would not be between Republican; Democrat or whoever, but between choosing to observe/experience reality objectively, or subjectively. That vote may be very significant in terms of what kind of reality we ultimately find ourselves living in. Or so I think.

 

[axj]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

Yes, I think it comes down to perception and our intent behind the choices we make. That decides what kind of reality we choose.

There is a difference between blindly believing in the system and seeing that one of the two may offer a higher chance of not starting a war, opening people's eyes, etc. That is actually one thing that shouldn't be discounted about Trump: whether or not he wins, he brought many important issues such as the extent of political corruption and media propaganda to the awareness of millions of people.

So there is clearly quite a big difference between the candidates this time, at least in this respect.

Is there something else that outweighs this, such as the possibility of him going fascist or being in cahoots with the establishment all this time? Maybe, but I don't think it is likely, even though he will probably find some sort of agreement with the establishment.

 

[Niall]

Clintonistas have been calling for the FBI to look into "Trump's Russian ties" after last week's shock announcement by Director Comey that new information from an "unrelated case" made him wish to "supplement the record" on his non-indictment of Clinton's abuse of position as Sec of State.

FBI sources in the NYT yesterday answered by saying that have been doing exactly that, and further that they have found no evidence of a Trump-Putin conspiracy:

"For much of the summer, the F.B.I. pursued a widening investigation into a Russian role in the American presidential campaign. Agents scrutinized advisers close to Donald J. Trump, looked for financial connections with Russian financial figures, searched for those involved in hacking the computers of Democrats, and even chased a lead — which they ultimately came to doubt — about a possible secret channel of email communication from the Trump Organization to a Russian bank.

Law enforcement officials say that none of the investigations so far have found any conclusive or direct link between Mr. Trump and the Russian government. And even the hacking into Democratic emails, F.B.I. and intelligence officials now believe, was aimed at disrupting the presidential election rather than electing Mr. Trump."

The Times and other outlets are spinning this by reminding voters that the FBI's 'investigations' into Trump's 'treason' aren't concluded. I seriously doubt that the FBI is going to make a case that Putin subverted the US election.

With no Putin involvement, it means the leaks are a domestic affair, which suggests to me that at least a faction within the Establishment - using the FBI - is hanging her out to dry. Game over for Clinton?

I wrote some more about this here: https://www.sott.net/article/332719-Is-Clinton-finished-FBI-doubles-down-says-no-evidence-of-Trump-Putin-collusion

 

[Alada]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

Yes, I think it comes down to perception and our intent behind the choices we make. That decides what kind of reality we choose.

There is a difference between blindly believing in the system and seeing that one of the two may offer a higher chance of not starting a war, opening people's eyes, etc. That is actually one thing that shouldn't be discounted about Trump: whether or not he wins, he brought many important issues such as the extent of political corruption and media propaganda to the awareness of millions of people.

It brings this session snippet to mind, about the importance of seeing things are they are. Not believing negatives to be a positives or of negligible effect.

Session 9 April 2011

Q: (L) Well, I guess we can try asking some questions. Let me see the list. Hold everything! Pause! {Stops to read over list of questions.} Ok, I have a series of questions that have been written out here. The first one is; why have we all been feeling so inflamed/low on energy/depressed/irritable for the last two weeks?

A: Cosmic changes in process. Each person experiences this differently according to genetics and environment. Recall previous sufferings preparatory to DNA boosts? All must keep vigilant about diet and psychic hygiene during this time as there are also external factors that seek to block the natural process.

Q: (L) Does this have anything to do with our super-moon dance?

A: Indeed. And recall that the universe is about balance. After each period of suffering there is always joy.

Q: (Burma Jones) What do they mean by “psychic hygiene”?

A: Being careful about what you allow into your ”field”.

Q: (L) In what sense?

A: All senses.

Q: (L) What do you mean “all senses”?

A: Seeing, hearing, speaking, and so on

Q: (Ark) So, uh, I will tell a story about this “using all your senses”. A few days ago, I went out and I almost had an accident. I was driving on the interior peripherique - on the lane that was closest to the middle. There are three lanes. There was a guy behind me who was very unhappy that I was driving only 90kmh. He was swaying from left to right, trying to get past me and I could see it in the rear-view mirror. I looked to the right and realized I cannot do anything, because there was a car. I could see it.

So, I stayed. After about two minutes, you know, the one behind me again starts to act impatient behind me. But then, I look in the mirror again and the car to the right is gone. So I figure he must have moved somewhere else. Then I started to do {Ark makes descriptive hand gestures showing his driving maneuver} – only the car was there exactly in the right angle [to be in the blind spot.] But, uh, he was a young guy and he was fast. He steps on the brakes – and nothing happened, you see? I usually do not do such things. I was thinking very fast and that he must be gone, but I was not 100% sure. So, I should have waited until I was 100% sure. So, of course nothing happened, he just got upset.

A: We have more in mind. Take care with interacting with negative energies.

Q: (L) Well that’s kinda like creating your own reality, isn’t it?

A: Not what we mean… Keep your guard up and do not allow negative energies to slip by… such as believing lies… listening to negative music while thinking it is positive…watching negative movies and thinking it is negligible. It is extremely important to not lie to the self. One can listen or watch many things as long as the truth of the orientation is known, acknowledged, and understood. Clear?

Q: (L) So, in other words: awareness. Calling a spade a spade and not allowing something negative to enter you and believing it is positive. You can see it, perceive it and acknowledge it but not allow it to influence you. Because obviously, you cannot shut off your perceptions of the world, but you can control how it affects you. So, don’t let it inside, thinking it’s something that it’s not.

(Belibaste) So, see it as it is. If it is negative, see it as negative.

(L) Yeah, and they’re saying to focus on truth in order for changes to manifest in you that are positive. That is, “positive” can mean acknowledging that something is negative because it is truth.

Q: (Galatea) Choose the seeds you wish to water.

(L) Is that basically what we’re talking about here?

A: Yes

 

[Neil]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

Well, after thinking the last few days about Laura's musing about Trump and the possible alien invasion scenario, it became clear to me how much Trump is being set up as a pied piper next to someone like Jill Stein. Trump's beneficial qualities is that he often tells the truth, even touching on some subjects like 9/11 truth, he has some understanding and appreciation for making deals instead of making demands when it comes to foreign and domestic issues, and he seems to have a willingness to prosecute war criminals. His negative traits are that he has no humility, he's a misogynist self-centered hothead, and he has an undeveloped superficial intellect. His motives for running are questionable. These are not the traits of a leader. Jill Stein has all of Trump's strengths with only a couple of minor weaknesses. She seems to believe in AGW, which is unsurprising given the Green Party's platform, and I'm not sure that she has the inner constitution to really stare down psychopathy. Trump may have an advantage here in that he is exposed to it and deals with it, even if he can't really wrap his brain around it. She is intelligent and appears to have good intentions; she has the qualities of a leader even if she's not ideal. She had a nice dinner with Putin, as I recall, and he seems to think she is a reasonable person. So Trump is sort of a caricature of a good leader, he has the outer forms, and some of his ideas and aspirations may be tangentially aligned with what is sane, but he has a rather glaring dark side that 3D/4DSTS are hoping you will ignore. On an energetic level, it looks like the system has to throw out the good leader in order to comply with some universal law of balance, and then since people are either ignorant or too STS to care, she is marginalized and a twisted version is placed next to her which is promoted widely. Trump is a poster child for American capitalism, which was kind of psychopathic to begin with. People who buy into Trump's image as a great hero who is going to fix Washington with his leadership abilities are feeding their energy into the STS qualities that Trump embodies and propagates to some degree. This serves as a blue pill which will go down easy and support the type of realm frequency that 4D STS needs to maintain control here.

Having said all of that, the Clintons and some of their clappers need to fall, and Trump looks like he is in a position to do that with the help of some the PTB. This would be an objectively good thing. I also believe the possibility exists that he can be "hijacked," which is intriguing, because very often the forces of darkness can be made to serve the aims of the light if you're clever. There also seems to be quite a bit of factional infighting, perhaps not at the very top, but further down in the PTB, which might be interesting to watch. So I'm rooting for Trump a little bit on that account, but I'm not expecting much from him after the PTB get their power struggle sorted out. I'm certainly not buying the "great leader and savior" narrative that 4D STS wants me to accept. Unless he really does get "hijacked" and do some pretty incredible things, he's not getting any more support from me beyond me laughing at the PTB using him as a tool to try and kill each other and perhaps shooting themselves in the foot in the process. Trump is tool being used do certain things, but the eye needs to be kept on the illusive operators.

 

[Renaissance]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

The US presidential election can probably be looked at in a similar light as Brexit, the failed Turkish coup and the US campaign against Syria, and the over-the-top anti-Russian propaganda. Things aren't working out as the elite have planned, and some of their henchmen are crumbing under the weight. If you guys haven't already seen it, check out James Carville's interview on MSNBC:

http://<iframe width="560" height="...EU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I don't know if it can get much better than that. The lies about Russia are being thoroughly being exposed, and it's reactions like Carville's above that are driving home just how insane the powers within the US are. That's pretty awesome. It doesn't come down to a matter of what Trump will do if elected (because as Niall stated things will continue for the U.S. pretty much as they did before), but it's seeing how the power brokers are essentially exposing themselves, miscalculating things, and going off the deep end as things unfold. The importance of these events doesn't really have to do with Trump being elected. 'Who is president' isn't an important issue in and of itself. Instead, it is more about what the unveiled propaganda and lies can reveal during the election campaigns. That's pretty unique for this election, but it's also a general trend for many events that we're seeing on the world stage.

 

[NormaRegula]

Re: Presidential election 2016: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

The Carvile mention that Trump is in cahoots with the KGB, which was disbanded in the early 1990s, is hilarious.

Hillary and her minions are regurgitating the Ruskies-are-Comin' fear monger and Trump is a serial groper, conveniently forgetting her own ties to Russian business people, plus her hubby's predilections that includes a very plausible rape of Juanita Broadderick. Killary's campaign doesn't have much to go on offense-wise. One would think they'd be more clever. I guess Trump's not disclosing his tax returns didn't resonate with the public. Or perhaps it brought too much attention to the Clinton Foundation investigation.

Overheard a Millennial-type - who claims to be voting for Gary Johnson - at a coffee place say to his companion that Hillary is stuck in the 50s to use the anti-Russia rhetoric. Thought that was interesting.