Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
- Thread starter sHiZo963
- Start date
theos
The Living Force
I thought perhaps -- and this may have been discussed if memory serves me -- his articles stopped appearing because he was becoming quite vitriolic. Just reading the first page of his blog showcases this...
and..
He has every right to be angered over the state of the world but he has some pretty hateful imaginings of revenge scenarios. His writings read like the rantings of a madman.
and..
He has every right to be angered over the state of the world but he has some pretty hateful imaginings of revenge scenarios. His writings read like the rantings of a madman.
Might that be because Les presented himself as something he wasn't, i.e. someone who knew something about martial arts?
Here, let me just relate a little story: Years ago when I was at uni and substantially more naive, there was a guy on my floor in the dorm who was pretty nice to me. He also had a girlfriend who was generally kind to me. Then one night she got drunk. It was then that I heard what she really thought of me. Of course, my friend - her boyfriend - excused her saying that, "people don't really mean what they say when they're drunk - it's the alcohol talking." Right... Then later, HE got drunk, and let me just say that he was downright CREEPY when he was drunk. He was gonna kill people, he was death incarnate... All sorts of nice, cheerful things.
I think you get the point. Suffice it to say that alcohol can either be abused, or used as a tool. Either way, it reveals something about the people that consume it. On the night in question, Les had more than enough to drink (along with some other substances apparently) that it seems his "real self" emerged.
It's true that everyone used to drink. That would be past tense, because we later discovered that alcohol is really something you don't ever want to put into your body. Alcohol + sugar is the absolute worst. There are plenty of other threads and posts on those topics around here! In any case, aside from negative dietary effects, there is NOT anything wrong with having a drink or two and singing some karaoke to unwind a bit every now and then. Nobody is superman, and no one was expecting Les to be superman either.
What we were NOT prepared for was the effects of the alcohol + whatever the heck else he had taken. He started dancing around and singing playing music, singing about penises and erections (using much more colorful language). Before this "activity" began, he left the room where he thought we all were. One person was returning from the kitchen, and spotted him finishing up some sort of "product". Shortly thereafter, the above-mentioned fireworks began.
Well, I dunno. We were drinking. He was drinking. He was also doing something else it seems. Is it all just relative? Are we just being harsh and judgmental?
The thing is, I would never go to someone else's house and allow myself to get drunk. I would also CERTAINLY never take my own substances with which to party, because I'm a guest in someone else's house... especially if this was the first time I was meeting them!
Maybe that's old-fashioned, but it's also logical, courteous, and safe. In the world we live in, it's common sense, for god's sake!
Well, he couldn't pass up the smoking jab, could he? If that doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what does.
Personally, I respect Les' choice to get loopy and sing about erections if that's what he likes to do, but I really don't want him doing it around me. As for Facebook, I'm only going to say this once, people:
FACEBOOK IS NOT REAL LIFE!!
There, I said it. I feel better. Besides that, why should we be forbidden from informing anyone about our interests? Les has a choice here as well: he can unfriend every single person that has anything to do with SOTT and Cassiopaea and FOTCM. But he doesn't. It's a 2-way street, folks.
It's called common sense.
If maturity = singing about erections amidst people I've just met, I think I'll pass.
It's not slander if one is accurately reporting what happened, and there were far more of "us" than of him. His problem is really that he has nothing to say about us. Nothing truthful, anyway. What he wants is to "keep our secrets" in exchange for keeping his. Problem is, he has nothing to keep secret. But it sure does make him look better in many peoples' eyes, eh? How can I trust someone like that to watch my back?
Um, see above.
I have lots of flaws. Childish? Sometimes! Condemnative? Sure! Grandiose? Entirely possible! Heck, I put Twitter's programmers to shame in my spare time!!
There's nothing wrong with having flaws. It's true that Les has written some really good stuff, IMO. I also think he's written some total crap. Well, can't win 'em all, right? That isn't really the question. The question is: What is our aim? And also: Does a certain person's participation in that aim add to or subtract from achieving that goal? In his case, I think there was simply too much instability. You can access truths the right way, and then you can force it on yourself in other ways, which DOES seem to work. It also destroys you (and possibly those around you) in the end, time and time again. And that doesn't do anybody any good.
If it wasn't chemical-induced, than SOMETHING was doing it, and it didn't look good.
Anyway, I don't have a negative opinion of Les the human being. He just isn't someone who I would want standing next to me when the poo hits the fan. That is most definitely a decision that I will make for myself. When everyone comes to the same conclusion, we part ways and that's that.
Personally, I will risk being wrong rather than being burdened with having been right and then having to deal with the repercussions.
Let me begin by setting the stage. Here is a small photo album of Les Visible's visit here. http://laura-knight-jadczyk.com/Les_Visible/index.html
His visit coincided with Perceval's birthday and we had other guests in the house as you can see in the above linked little album.
As you can also see, the date of the visit is June 2nd, 2008. Here is me on April 14, 2008, just six weeks earlier:
I had spent a number of hours in surgery having my shoulder rebuilt and, at the time Les visited, I was not only not recovered, I was still quite ill. It is after Les' visit that our research and work on detoxification began. You could even say it was partly because of his visit. Les is an advocate of the macrobiotic diet that has grains as the main staple. I tried it and it made me WAAAAAY worse and that prompted me to do research which led to discovering detoxification. But, before I got there, I was on the verge of death. That was in July of 2008. Keep in mind that the Pepin/HBI lawsuit was running in the background, and there were a lot of other things going on. So, Les' visit occurred in a certain context.
Anart wrote to me on June 1st that she had disturbing dreams about guests here at the house and I wrote back, on the 2nd, the day of Les' visit, the following:
On the 5th of June, my 19 year-old daughter came down with chicken pox; on the 6th, my son had two wisdom teeth removed, several group members were conducting an inquiry into an online psychopath that was having repercussions, AND we had a rather upsetting events at the house here so there were signs all over the place. We were, as the Cs said in a session that we finally had when I was able to sit at the table, "shell-shocked." That session included a few bits about Les Visible and I have just posted it here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=19608.0
His visit coincided with Perceval's birthday and we had other guests in the house as you can see in the above linked little album.
As you can also see, the date of the visit is June 2nd, 2008. Here is me on April 14, 2008, just six weeks earlier:
I had spent a number of hours in surgery having my shoulder rebuilt and, at the time Les visited, I was not only not recovered, I was still quite ill. It is after Les' visit that our research and work on detoxification began. You could even say it was partly because of his visit. Les is an advocate of the macrobiotic diet that has grains as the main staple. I tried it and it made me WAAAAAY worse and that prompted me to do research which led to discovering detoxification. But, before I got there, I was on the verge of death. That was in July of 2008. Keep in mind that the Pepin/HBI lawsuit was running in the background, and there were a lot of other things going on. So, Les' visit occurred in a certain context.
Anart wrote to me on June 1st that she had disturbing dreams about guests here at the house and I wrote back, on the 2nd, the day of Les' visit, the following:
On the 5th of June, my 19 year-old daughter came down with chicken pox; on the 6th, my son had two wisdom teeth removed, several group members were conducting an inquiry into an online psychopath that was having repercussions, AND we had a rather upsetting events at the house here so there were signs all over the place. We were, as the Cs said in a session that we finally had when I was able to sit at the table, "shell-shocked." That session included a few bits about Les Visible and I have just posted it here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=19608.0
I would like to mention that we have chosen to not disclose our extremely negative experience of Les in public because, as far as I have been able to see, Les has his flaws like everyone else - maybe a bit more obnoxious than some, but that could just be me; some people like that sort of personality - and he's certainly doing a decent job of calling 'em as he sees 'em.
However, according to what he has written above, it seems that Les does not grant to us the same rights to see things and call them as we see them. What he has written is actually not just one-sided, but some of it is outright lying.
I searched the forum to find what I had ever said about Les publicly and found the following:
That's it.
So, it seems the guilty flee when no man pursues.
However, according to what he has written above, it seems that Les does not grant to us the same rights to see things and call them as we see them. What he has written is actually not just one-sided, but some of it is outright lying.
I searched the forum to find what I had ever said about Les publicly and found the following:
Laura said:
That's it.
So, it seems the guilty flee when no man pursues.
I think there is a storm brewing in a tea-cup here. We liked Les' writings to begin with, but after a while he started writing things that simply didn't fit with Sott. When we had an opportunity to meet Les in person, he provided more evidence that we were really not on the same page as him. That's the long and the short of it. Everyone has the right of "non-association". Anything else Les has to say about the topic is irrelevant from our point of view.
Apologies for being off topic and I hope this is ok to say, I know it was 2008 but my heart goes out to you and your family in that photo Laura.
Why is it that all hell seems to break loose in general (and health wise) when you guys have a 'disruptive' guests about to arrive? It seems to be a reoccurring pattern from what I've read....nothing like being at the eye of the storm I guess.
Why is it that all hell seems to break loose in general (and health wise) when you guys have a 'disruptive' guests about to arrive? It seems to be a reoccurring pattern from what I've read....nothing like being at the eye of the storm I guess.
Mr. Premise
The Living Force
Well said, Scottie! We do see this time and time again.
Mr. Scott said:
RedFox said:
Thanks. It was my annus horribilis, to say the least, and the lawsuit, surgery, Les' totally inconsiderate behavior when I was still ill, the chicken pox, and so on, wasn't all there was. My mother had another stroke, my older daughter nearly died from using MMS, and the only good thing about the year was that we did win the lawsuit and everyone survived. But it was touch and go, for sure.
There were some good things, too. It was August 2nd of 2008 that I began the detox experiment with the infra-red sauna, supplements, and special diet. Within a month, I was much better, which is a good thing or I wouldn't have survived what was yet to come.
In January of 2009, all the rest of the household joined me on the diet and detox experiment and the rest is history. We made a lot of amazing discoveries and that led to a lot of other people learning what they could do to take control of their health. So, every dark cloud does have a silver lining.
RyanX
The Living Force
RedFox said:
Yes, that sounds like a terrible ordeal from what everybody has described above, you all have my sympathies as well. I'm sure glad you all made it through that year!
As far as health issues occurring when certain guests arrive, this got me thinking that this might not be that uncommon in other people as well. It's just that most people don't equate ill health with certain people - we're trained to believe it's all a virus or germ of some sort. I've had this feeling when visiting certain people. The next day I'll feel somewhat sick or sapped of energy without any discernible reason why. I've learned to stay away from certain people due to this feeling too, even though I really can't explain it and usually try to make up some reasonable excuse if that certain person asks to see me again.
StrangeCaptain
Jedi Council Member
Hello all,
I was at the soirée in question, and I guess I will share my impressions as just one other perspective amongst the many gathered here.
My impression of Les from moment one was of intense dislike on a rather visceral level. So visceral that I felt a strong sense of needing to protect myself from him... It is not an impression I have often, and I have always been embarassed of having it, but over time, every time I have had it, it has been correct. I mean, not the urge to protect myself necessarily, but the sense of repulsion itself, has been in the past rather accurate. Every time he was within 5 feet of Laura I had the urge to stand between her and him. There was one time in particular during his seemingly never-ending sort of spoken word/musical act during Joe's birthday party after-party :P in which he was just looming over Laura, trying to be impressive I suppose, but it was just too weird for me.
Thank the divine cosmic mind that Ark played Chopin on the piano that night. It was a rather sublime balance to the onslaught of Les' performance.
As for this quote: "Second, what has violence got to do with me. I was at their chateau in France and the only violence I saw was Laura's daughter saying she could kick my ass over and over while I was demonstrating some martial arts techniques in slow motion on someone."
This is a really distorted view of the whole context of the situation. IMO, he was presenting himself as a martial arts expert and even offered to do a full speed demonstration, but all I could see was him getting some weird injury when his partner in this proposed demonstration did not cooperate, and I figured the last thing the folks at the chateau needed is another law suit.
I was at the soirée in question, and I guess I will share my impressions as just one other perspective amongst the many gathered here.
My impression of Les from moment one was of intense dislike on a rather visceral level. So visceral that I felt a strong sense of needing to protect myself from him... It is not an impression I have often, and I have always been embarassed of having it, but over time, every time I have had it, it has been correct. I mean, not the urge to protect myself necessarily, but the sense of repulsion itself, has been in the past rather accurate. Every time he was within 5 feet of Laura I had the urge to stand between her and him. There was one time in particular during his seemingly never-ending sort of spoken word/musical act during Joe's birthday party after-party :P in which he was just looming over Laura, trying to be impressive I suppose, but it was just too weird for me.
Thank the divine cosmic mind that Ark played Chopin on the piano that night. It was a rather sublime balance to the onslaught of Les' performance.
As for this quote: "Second, what has violence got to do with me. I was at their chateau in France and the only violence I saw was Laura's daughter saying she could kick my ass over and over while I was demonstrating some martial arts techniques in slow motion on someone."
This is a really distorted view of the whole context of the situation. IMO, he was presenting himself as a martial arts expert and even offered to do a full speed demonstration, but all I could see was him getting some weird injury when his partner in this proposed demonstration did not cooperate, and I figured the last thing the folks at the chateau needed is another law suit.
I would like to think that I am still counted among Les' friends after this post, but there are some things which do not "bear out". I was in attendance at the chateau on the evening in question. Wine was consumed moderately during dinner, and if I am not mistaken only one bottle was opened for a table of around ten people. After dinner, I opened another bottle of the privately labeled Cassiopaean Bordeaux, of which a member had sent them a case. It was a very good red and only one or two other people indulged with me after dinner. Laura and Ark were not among them. To my knowledge, I was the only person who could be considered tipsy that evening, as I consumed the lion's share of the second... and maybe a third bottle.
Since that evening in question, over two years ago, the necessity of the detox diet has turned the entire chateau crew into teetotalers. In my nearly seven years close proximity to Laura, Ark and their extended family, I have never seen any of them "drunk".
Well, since we are being truthful, Les in fact had consumed, in my presence, an amount of a psychotropic substance before attending the dinner party in question.
Edit: I just reviewed the pictures taken when Les attended the dinner party. It appears there were two bottles of wine served with dinner, and a couple of people were having beer instead.
Edit #2: Les is in fact accomplished in the martial arts.
Patience said:
It is a VERY distorted view of the situation and context. I don't know what kind of background Les has, but in our family, it is not considered acceptable for an older man to come into the house and make direct, suggestive - and I mean OVERTLY suggestive - remarks to the daughters of the house. We are talking borderline filthy here. My daughters didn't like it and basically let him know that it would be a cold day in Hell before they would be interested in him sexually. He then switched to the "martial arts" theme in an aggressive way - rather like a guy with a hurt ego who's going to show everybody how tough he is - and it went downhill from there. The girls just couldn't resist pointing out how they could, literally, kick his behind if he tried his tricks on them.