Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors

gibson said:
Ketamine may explain some things:

Yeah, it certainly does. I've seen what this stuff does to people up close during the times when I would go to raves as a teenager. People claimed to love the experience, but from an outside observers perspective they just look like piles of unresponsive flesh, sitting on the floor in their own autistic reality. I believe the phrase was "stuck in a k-hole". Nothing spiritual about it, just a bunch of brain/soul killing fun.
 
gibson said:
Laura said:
A forum and sott reader who follows our work closely wrote recently describing his experiences with Les. I suppose it is because the guy lives in a fairly liberal country that the event he recounts even happened. He wrote:

I think June 2008 was the the month when Les asked me for my phone number out of the blue then called to ask if I could source large quantities of ketamine for him

Ketamine may explain some things:

quotes are from thegooddrugsguide.com _http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ketamine/effects.htm

At the height of the experience, you may experience dazzling insights, hallucinate and even feel yourself communicating with forces, entities and elements you were never conscious of before. The world you see in your mind may be very detailed and in some cases, you may feel that you are sharing your visions or thoughts with other people who are nearby.

and:

Many people feel energized after a Ketamine experience and have a strong urge to move around, dance or stretch.

Long term, some users can be so overcome by what they regard as the superior reality of Ketamine-land that they can retreat from the real world into the K-world. In a type of reality flip, the visions they see while under the drug's influence feel more real and meaningful than what they experience in the brick and mortar world.


Mod:Edit quotes




Am I the only person who just does not understand why this would be a good thing?? Why would you even WANT to do this? :huh:
 
Gimpy said:
Am I the only person who just does not understand why this would be a good thing?? Why would you even WANT to do this? :huh:

No, you aren't. I had several exchanges with Les about it, trying to explain to him gently that what he was "getting" and "seeing" might not be accurate or even from a positive source. This was private, but apparently, he felt so insulted that anyone would question the critters in his head that he decided to make it public by saying nasty and untrue things about us.
 
Gimpy said:
Am I the only person who just does not understand why this would be a good thing?? Why would you even WANT to do this?

My father called this taking the kingdom of heaven by storm. He told me I was stealing. One ’s self, centered in the abstract thinking center, attempts to access other realms without paying the price of a life for a life. This is how I understand my own experience, and narrow escape from the seduction of something for nothing.
 
go2 said:
My father called this taking the kingdom of heaven by storm. He told me I was stealing. One ’s self, centered in the abstract thinking center, attempts to access other realms without paying the price of a life for a life. This is how I understand my own experience, and narrow escape from the seduction of something for nothing.

That's pretty much the Cs view on the matter - that it is a form of violation of the self. I shared with Les what the Cs had said about this, the idea that these states should only come naturally (assuming that the natural state is anything like the chemically induced one), and so on. I wasn't being aggressive about it, just very concerned. He did not take it well at all.
 
Laura said:
go2 said:
My father called this taking the kingdom of heaven by storm. He told me I was stealing. One ’s self, centered in the abstract thinking center, attempts to access other realms without paying the price of a life for a life. This is how I understand my own experience, and narrow escape from the seduction of something for nothing.

That's pretty much the Cs view on the matter - that it is a form of violation of the self. I shared with Les what the Cs had said about this, the idea that these states should only come naturally (assuming that the natural state is anything like the chemically induced one), and so on. I wasn't being aggressive about it, just very concerned. He did not take it well at all.

It sounds like someone with a hardcore addiction who refuses to see that their addiction causes them more pain than good. Most addicts don't take criticism of their substance abuse well, and the concerned person turns from friend to foe once the addicted person discovers the concerned person doesn't approve of their way of life. Even if that person only means well and the best for the addict, osit.
 
It is really sad that Les Visible is stuck in his substance abuse as he wrote some really great pieces in the past carried on SOTT Best of the Web.

As far as his reaction to the concern shown for him by Laura being taken very badly, that's not an uncommon reaction for those who are "dedicated" to substance abuse, especially in the case of Les where he believes he is getting messages from "divine" sources. Not questioning the nature of the sources giving him messages is part and parcel of the subjectivity promoted by mind altering drugs and is also reflected in his behavior at the chateau.


I just saw your post, Deedlet, as I went to post this. Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's pretty much the case whether the addiction is purely psychological or physical as well.
 
go2 said:
Gimpy said:
Am I the only person who just does not understand why this would be a good thing?? Why would you even WANT to do this?

My father called this taking the kingdom of heaven by storm. He told me I was stealing. One ’s self, centered in the abstract thinking center, attempts to access other realms without paying the price of a life for a life. This is how I understand my own experience, and narrow escape from the seduction of something for nothing.

I think that is an excellent way to put it, go2. And it goes to the essence of the problem: having something for nothing, thinking that you deserve everything just because it is you. Which I think is exactly the attitude of the 'tramp', to use Gurdjieff's expression. And it makes you easy lunch. Sounds like your father knew what he was talking about! :cool:

At first I was annoyed, but at this point I only feel sorry for Les. :rolleyes:
 
Laura said:
go2 said:
My father called this taking the kingdom of heaven by storm. He told me I was stealing. One ’s self, centered in the abstract thinking center, attempts to access other realms without paying the price of a life for a life. This is how I understand my own experience, and narrow escape from the seduction of something for nothing.

That's pretty much the Cs view on the matter - that it is a form of violation of the self. I shared with Les what the Cs had said about this, the idea that these states should only come naturally (assuming that the natural state is anything like the chemically induced one), and so on. I wasn't being aggressive about it, just very concerned. He did not take it well at all.

From Paul Beekman Taylor's book on Gurdjieff and Orage:

When Munson met Orage for lunch one day in November to ask if he could join his group, he admitted that he had never had a "revelation." "You are lucky," Orage replied, "such experiences are pathological: Peeping-Tom glimpses of the universe through a smutted window. The first thing to do is clean the window pane."
 
I was quite shocked to read about Les' behaviour at your place. Not because I thought highly of him and was disappointed (I've only read one or two articles), but because it is so beyond me how anyone could behave so rudely at someone's place. That he takes drugs is his problem, but to think it's OK to go to someone's place with their own stash and actually do drugs over there is just incomprehensible. Same goes with getting really drunk at somebody's place. And I'm not even mentioning the 'flirting' (I'm using the term loosely). He has no idea (or worse, he does not care one bit) about what is socially acceptable or not. No respect whatsoever. It's like he feels entitled to behave as he wishes and others have to cope with it because he's special.

Myrddin Awyr said:
Wow, sounds like he's really happy with all those entities being on the bus, even welcomes them. That's scary in itself.

Yes, and who knows what he is in contact with while he is stoned? It made me think about this excerpt Laura had posted in the 'What are the Lizzies?" thread:

C's session 10/07/99 said:
Okay, this anthropologist, Michael Harner, was doing some field work, and it says here that Harner went to the Peruvian Amazon to study the culture of the Conibo Indians. After a year or so he had made little headway in understanding their religious system, when the Conibo told him 'if he really wanted to learn, he had to drink ahayahuasca. Harner accepted, not without fear because the people had warned him that the experience was terrifying. The following evening, under the strict supervision of his indigenous friends, he drank the equivalent of a third of a bottle. After several minutes he found himself flying into a world of true hallucinations. After arriving in a celestial cavern where a supernatural carnival of demons was in full swing, he saw two strange boats floating through the air that combined to form a huge dragon headed prow not unlike that of a Viking ship. On the deck he could make out large numbers of people with the heads of bluejays and the bodies of humans, not unlike the bird-headed gods of ancient Egyptian tomb paintings. After multiple episodes, which would be too long to describe here, Harner became convinced that he was dying. He tried calling out to his Conibo friends for an antidote without managing to pronounce a word. Then he saw that his visions emanated from giant reptilian creatures that resided at the lowest depths of his brain. These creatures began projecting scenes in front of his eyes while informing him that this information was reserved for the dying and the dead.

'First, they showed me the planet Earth as it was aeons ago before there was any life on it. I saw an ocean, barren land, and a bright blue sky. Then black specks dropped from the sky by the hundreds and landed in front of me on the barren landscape. I could see that the specks were actually large, shiny black creatures with stubby pterodactyl-like wings and huge whale-like bodies. They explained to me in a kind of thought language, that they were fleeing from something from out in space. They had come to the planet earth to escape their enemy. The creatures then showed me how they had created life on the planet in order to hide within the multitudinous forms, and thus disguise their presence. Before me, the magnificence of plant and animal creation and speciation and hundreds of millions of years of activity, took place on a scale and with a vividness impossible to describe. I learned that dragon-like creatures were thus inside all forms of life, including man.'

I think he has no idea what he is really dealing with. This type of drugs usually makes you feel all-powerful (maybe that's the reason why he was using at the chateau to begin with: he probably felt vulnerable or insecure and needed a 'pick me up'. Or maybe he can barely function without any drugs, I don't know) and he probably thinks he in control and knows what he is doing.
 
Mrs.Tigersoap said:
I was quite shocked to read about Les' behaviour at your place. Not because I thought highly of him and was disappointed (I've only read one or two articles), but because it is so beyond me how anyone could behave so rudely at someone's place. That he takes drugs is his problem, but to think it's OK to go to someone's place with their own stash and actually do drugs over there is just incomprehensible. Same goes with getting really drunk at somebody's place. And I'm not even mentioning the 'flirting' (I'm using the term loosely). He has no idea (or worse, he does not care one bit) about what is socially acceptable or not. No respect whatsoever. It's like he feels entitled to behave as he wishes and others have to cope with it because he's special.

This perfectly expresses my own reaction to hearing this story.

I stopped reading Les quite some time ago due to his open admission of seeking his inspiration from questionable sources. In an ironic twist, the only reason I didn't write him off completely was knowing he had been a visitor to the Chateau and no one had made any serious criticism of him. I am thankful that the necessity of circumstance has allowed that consideration to be re-adjusted and the truth to come out.
 
In many ways, not only did Les hurt himself, he also
hurt others.

I do not know French Law, but in the USA:

Drugs found on the premises, could result in loss of the
premises to the authorities (can call it a drug house).

Drunks leaving a party involved in an accident, can potentially
place liability on the host of the party.

USA newspapers occasionally report homes being forfeited as
drug homes, and drunk drivers leaving a party and involved in
an accident, places liability on the host.

FWIW,
Dan
 
Thank you all for this revealing thread on the hidden aspects of Les Visible's character. Hidden to all who did not witness them at the chateau that is. But is he "just lunch",the tramp of Gurdjieff, the attitude? I am saddened by the revelations;but also concerned. Given the influence that he appears to have blogwise, his magnetism and indubitable power with language, and protocol 12, what covert uses is he also furthering or does it just come down to substance abuse.
Perhaps revealing:"Just about the sum total of all life on Earth is a scam" he once wrote.
 
I've been wondering for some time now why there weren't any of Visible's articles appearing on Sott. This thread more than answers that.

Like most here I'm surprised with the revelations about his drug abuse as well as absolutely no manners per his behavior at the Chateau. Mrs. Tigersoap summed it up quite well.

I've been thinking about how pretty much everyone who shows some potential to do some good in the world is sooner or later sidetracked by one way or another. Dolan being
another case I had in mind. Again this goes to show the importance of a network.
 
dant said:
Drugs found on the premises, could result in loss of the
premises to the authorities (can call it a drug house).

Yeah, this has become a big deal in recent years. The US laws are overly draconian IMO, but if you're not aware of them, they can really bite you.

Any property owner can be convicted of running a "drug house" if somebody on their property is found with illegal substances. Even if the property owner isn't aware of the fact that somebody has drugs, they are still held liable.

Knowing this, if anybody showed up at my house with drugs, I would ask them to leave immediately. We can't take any chances in this these times.
 
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