"Life Without Bread"

[Lilou]

Tentatively diagnosed as Horton's Disease...

I'm sorry to hear about this Rabelais. Did you experience tender blood vessels on the temporal side of your head and headache?? I freaked out a few months ago, as I had an inflammed blood vessel in my temple area. I was so concerned, I phoned an opthalmologist friend of mine. He told me I was too young for Temporal Arteritis and suggested it was perhaps viral. I never found out for sure, but I did apply 50% DMSO to the inflammed area several times and it resolved in a couple of days. But that doesn't mean something auto-immune is not still lurking.

After that episode, I became VERY serious about my diet. No more cheating. I always said the last thing to go would be my beloved coffee. Well, I am to that point, it's all there is left to eliminate. I have started to decrease the number of cups/day...and when I'm down to just the morning cup...I will switch to tea. Congrats Rabelais on your recent coffee elimination!! This will be the most difficult for me.

Take good care. I'll keep you in my thoughts for a full recovery! (and some weight gain!)

 

[Gaby]

I wonder if fasting only with fat (not really fasting we could be say) one day or two by week could accelerate the transition. For example, taking one soupspoon of ghee or another fat every hour, all the day, and nothing else. And alternate for example 3 days-1 days like this.
I think i will try it.

To start with this "fasting" is actually a bad idea. It will put your body in starvation mode and you'll loose a lot of muscle mass before you can use fat as a fuel. There is no need to strain your body unnecessarily, there are already enough metabolic changes the body has to go through in order to adapt to this diet. It is best if it is done by cutting out carbs and increasing fatty meats and saturated fat in general. In order to accelerate ketosis, you have to cut out carbs down to 20 grams or less per day. Your body needs proteins that can only be acquired through the diet.

There is a lot of research about intermittent fasting, but you have to read about it first before you can see what are the potential applications and when and how is best to do it. I think it is best to start with Primal Body, Primal Mind by Nora Gedgaudas. You'll find it very interesting and it also addresses the longevity research.

 

[Keit]

There is this article on SOTT that talks about a research on bacteria of the human gut and how its composition or type changes within the first 24 hours of the switch in diet, but also remains stable for the next 10 days. They talk about either high fat/protein diet or high fiber diet, but I think what we can take from this, that it emphasizes the importance of sticking with the routine for at least 10 days for the bacterial flora to change from Prevotella bacteria (carbohydrates) to Bacteroides (protein and animal fat).

Study linking gut microbe type with diet has implications for fighting GI disorders

An interdisciplinary group of investigators from the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania have found an association between long-term dietary patterns and the bacteria of the human gut.[...]

A subsequent controlled-feeding study of 10 subjects showed that gut microbiome composition changed detectably within 24 hours of initiating a high fat/low fiber or low fat/high fiber diet, but that the enterotype identity of the microbe group remained stable during the 10-day study, emphasizing the short-term stability of the enterotypes.[...]

"We found that diet is linked to the types of microbes in the gut, which provides a potential mechanism connecting diet with health."[...]

The enterotypes were strongly associated with diet, particularly protein and animal fat (Bacteroides genus) versus carbohydrates (Prevotella genus). [...]

10 healthy volunteers were enrolled in a controlled feeding experiment in which their diets were fixed for a 10-day period. All ten subjects in the controlled-feeding experiment were in the Bacteroides group at the start, during, and at the end of the experiment. Their gut microbiomes changed within one day but stayed within the same broad Bacteroides group, even if they ate a diet high in carbohydrates over the 10-day period, emphasizing the short-term stability of the enterotypes.

 

[Keit]

Also, just a note that, as others mentioned, since I started to monitor my protein intake and reduced it to up to 50g (I weight 52kg), I feel constantly hungry. Make sure to eat enough fat and also butter snacks, but still don't feel satiated. When before, with the same amount of food (though more meat) could go on long hours without feeling any need for another meal. Don't know what's up with that, and maybe it's a combination of several things. Also maybe just need to wait it out.

 

[Ollie]

Also, just a note that, as others mentioned, since I started to monitor my protein intake and reduced it to up to 50g (I weight 52kg), I feel constantly hungry. Make sure to eat enough fat and also butter snacks, but still don't feel satiated. When before, with the same amount of food (though more meat) could go on long hours without feeling any need for another meal. Don't know what's up with that, and maybe it's a combination of several things. Also maybe just need to wait it out.

This phase passes as you progress through to getting closer to ketosis. I'm currently in the 8th week of reducing carbs to 20g and below and half way through week 4 of getting protein grams down to my weight allowance (63.5g - previously too high). I would estimate that my energy levels are at between 90-95%, after an afternoon walk, getting back to normal - energy tends to drop soon after the walk, and then rise back up after eating food at teatime. Today, without a significant walk, energy has remained high.

Not sure if it's due to the diet, or EE, but I'm re-experience problems with my prostate at night.

 

[sebbe]

To start with this "fasting" is actually a bad idea. It will put your body in starvation mode and you'll loose a lot of muscle mass before you can use fat as a fuel. There is no need to strain your body unnecessarily, there are already enough metabolic changes the body has to go through in order to adapt to this diet. It is best if it is done by cutting out carbs and increasing fatty meats and saturated fat in general. In order to accelerate ketosis, you have to cut out carbs down to 20 grams or less per day. Your body needs proteins that can only be acquired through the diet.

There is a lot of research about intermittent fasting, but you have to read about it first before you can see what are the potential applications and when and how is best to do it. I think it is best to start with Primal Body, Primal Mind by Nora Gedgaudas. You'll find it very interesting and it also addresses the longevity research.

Thank you, Psyche, i've made note.

For Primal Body, Primal Mind, i took the kindle on amazon.
I started to read it ...slowly.

 

[Angchop]

I think that I am on week four of the low carb diet. I have lost around 8 pounds and I feel amazing. I have such an inner calm and satisfied feeling all day. I am never overly hungry and I finally feel like I can think about other things than food. I swear I used to obsess about what I was going to eat all the time. I actually always had a feeling that I would not get enough food throughout the day. I always felt panicky. Not anymore. I love the Paleo low carb diet. I have a constant steady energy all day, no more crashing around 3pm. I am almost done with "Primal body, Primal mind," I just received "The Vegetarian Myth", and I also bought "Deep Nutrition." I love reading about exactly what is going on in our bodies. Thank you all so much for this forum and sharing all this knowledge.

Angela

 

[Alana]

Also, just a note that, as others mentioned, since I started to monitor my protein intake and reduced it to up to 50g (I weight 52kg), I feel constantly hungry. Make sure to eat enough fat and also butter snacks, but still don't feel satiated. When before, with the same amount of food (though more meat) could go on long hours without feeling any need for another meal. Don't know what's up with that, and maybe it's a combination of several things. Also maybe just need to wait it out.

From what I understand, especially for us skinny types, it is better to continue eating as much meat/protein as it makes you feel not-hungry, and slowly slowly, you will begin to see that you don't need to eat as much protein any longer, and you won't feel hungry. That was at least my experience.

After I reduced my carbs below 20 g, I was eating a lot of meat, and was trying to add a little more fat than protein in my diet. Recently, when most of my days are zero carbs (and I don't miss anything, I am happy with bacon, eggs, sausages and pork/beef/lamb chops or stews) I feel like having smaller portions of meat dishes/protein with lots of fats. I can't even finish my steak! :O ;D

And though at the beginning I lost a couple of kilos, now it's all back (am about 2 months into the low carb diet)!

 

[Gaby]

From what I understand, especially for us skinny types, it is better to continue eating as much meat/protein as it makes you feel not-hungry, and slowly slowly, you will begin to see that you don't need to eat as much protein any longer, and you won't feel hungry. That was at least my experience.

Some people recommend more protein intake at the beginning to counteract the potential muscle loss during keto-adaptation. Once the body can derive fuel from fat, protein intake can be decreased and fat intake increased in order to not loose more weight. But regardless of this recommendation, my experience has been the same as yours. At the beginning I was eating a lot of protein and at some point, it made me uncomfortable. Like yikes, it is really enough. I started moderating protein according to my weight and felt a ton better. At the same time, I started craving fat a lot. Like my body was asking me for fat to get fully satisfied. I'm also experimenting with eating organs.

 

[Laura]

From what I understand, especially for us skinny types, it is better to continue eating as much meat/protein as it makes you feel not-hungry, and slowly slowly, you will begin to see that you don't need to eat as much protein any longer, and you won't feel hungry. That was at least my experience.

This is VERY IMPORTANT! Keep in mind that most of us suffer from lack of nutrition for years and years and years, not to mention that our bodies are geared to burn carbs. So making the switch is the first thing, and then one has to spend months - maybe a year or two - eating plenty of good food - mainly meats - to get re-nourished. After that, then you begin to naturally reduce the amount of proteins you eat.

Though, of course, you do not want to eat too much protein either! Get good fats in there and most important of all: balance the saturated fats from meats with omega-3s from fish oil type supplements and eat fish!

 

[Keit]

From what I understand, especially for us skinny types, it is better to continue eating as much meat/protein as it makes you feel not-hungry, and slowly slowly, you will begin to see that you don't need to eat as much protein any longer, and you won't feel hungry. That was at least my experience.

Yes, that what also happened to me when was eating primarily meat. At the beginning ate a lot of it but then felt that don't need that much or couldn't eat that much, and the amount went gradually down to the point where it felt balanced with the fat. My weight also stabilized at 54kg but then went down to 52kg after the recent infection. I think that maybe reducing protein to 50g is not enough for my body, at least right now. I am pretty active physically at the moment and probably spend a lot of energy.

And as a side note, it probably will be a good idea for me to remember to listen to my body more intently and not ignore it or try to force chances on it in a black and white manner and expect it to adapt. That's just silly, to put it mildly. :) So thanks for the feedback, Alana!

After I reduced my carbs below 20 g, I was eating a lot of meat, and was trying to add a little more fat than protein in my diet. Recently, when most of my days are zero carbs (and I don't miss anything, I am happy with bacon, eggs, sausages and pork/beef/lamb chops or stews) I feel like having smaller portions of meat dishes/protein with lots of fats. I can't even finish my steak! :O ;D

Oh yeah, don't think I could finish entire steak myself these days! My favorite snack these days is salted salo. But not sure about eggs. Last time I tried eggs after not having them for awhile, felt that had some sort of allergic reaction to them. But maybe will try again for the sake of the experiment.

I also make sure to eat sardines or canned cod liver with slices of butter. And take fish oils.

Oh, and I wanted to ask about L-carnitine. I took it for a month and felt ok with it, but then stopped after losing weight, just in case it could contribute since various sites mention that it can be used for weight loss. It could definitely be unrelated, but still thought of asking in case it's best not to take it regularly when one has a skinny disposition and still in the process of keto-adaptation.

 

[vinny]

From what I understand, especially for us skinny types, it is better to continue eating as much meat/protein as it makes you feel not-hungry, and slowly slowly, you will begin to see that you don't need to eat as much protein any longer, and you won't feel hungry. That was at least my experience.

Yes, that what also happened to me when was eating primarily meat. At the beginning ate a lot of it but then felt that don't need that much or couldn't eat that much, and the amount went gradually down to the point where it felt balanced with the fat. My weight also stabilized at 54kg but then went down to 52kg after the recent infection. I think that maybe reducing protein to 50g is not enough for my body, at least right now. I am pretty active physically at the moment and probably spend a lot of energy.

And as a side note, it probably will be a good idea for me to remember to listen to my body more intently and not ignore it or try to force chances on it in a black and white manner and expect it to adapt. That's just silly, to put it mildly. :) So thanks for the feedback, Alana!

yup, agree with Alana, same here regarding how much meat I eat. It's really important to keep listening to your body, whilst applying what we've learned about how the adaption process goes from burning carbs to burning fat, and acknowledging that this adjustment takes some time to feel 'natural'.

 

[liffy]

In the period where protein intake has to be higher than what's recommended by Gedgaudas; would it be better to stick to the 24 grams per meal, and have a higher meal frequency in order to get enough, or simply increase the protein amount in each meal?

 

[Voyageur]

[quote author=Nomad]
yup, agree with Alana, same here regarding how much meat I eat. It's really important to keep listening to your body, whilst applying what we've learned about how the adaption process goes from burning carbs to burning fat, and acknowledging that this adjustment takes some time to feel 'natural'.
[/quote]

Something for me to keep in mind as well. One thing that i've been shy on is fish, except if good wild pacific salmon can be found and other than Omega - 3 supplements, need to revisit this in my diet, maybe starting with sardines more often or similar.

 

[herondancer]

In the period where protein intake has to be higher than what's recommended by Gedgaudas; would it be better to stick to the 24 grams per meal, and have a higher meal frequency in order to get enough, or simply increase the protein amount in each meal?

Apparently it isn't good to go above 25gm of protein per meal as there is a limit to how much can be converted directly to fuel at any one time. If you go above that number then the body will start to convert the protein to glucose, which can throw you out of ketosis. There's more information on this in the Life Without Bread book. Look for the parts about the mTOR pathways.

Fwiw, I've gone the higher meal (snack actually) route. We'll make enough bacon/sausage in the morning to cover breakfast and noshing throughout the day. That way you still get enough protein, but without tripping that 25gm limit. I've also found that the amount of protein I need is going down too. I used to be able to put away two eggs, two sausages and about five big pieces of bacon every morning. I'm still eating the eggs, but down to half of the meats, while still feeling satisfied. It's great for the budget! :)