"Life Without Bread"

Oxajil said:
I find this quite interesting! (bolded by me):

Primal Body Primal Mind said:
The Second Brain?

Although serotonin is a neurotransmitter widely associated with the brain and mood functioning, including the prevention of depression, anxiety, and insomnia, few people are aware that 95% percent of all serotonin production in the body lies not in the brain, but in the gut.

The gut, in fact, has even more neurons than the brain!
The next time you find yourself struggling with mood issues, consider first the quality of your gastointestinal health and digestion. The brain and gut are inextricably linked.

Here is a Scientific American article that provides an introduction to the idea of the "Second Brain." Wouldn't you know, the vagus nerve is deeply involved. :) (But readers of The Polyvagal Theory already know that.)
 
Oxajil said:
I find this quite interesting! (bolded by me):

Primal Body Primal Mind said:
The Second Brain?

Although serotonin is a neurotransmitter widely associated with the brain and mood functioning, including the prevention of depression, anxiety, and insomnia, few people are aware that 95% percent of all serotonin production in the body lies not in the brain, but in the gut.

The gut, in fact, has even more neurons than the brain!
The next time you find yourself struggling with mood issues, consider first the quality of your gastointestinal health and digestion. The brain and gut are inextricably linked.

I agree! Peter Levine also mentions this in his marvelous book, "In An Unspoken Voice."
 
Aloha, All!

I wanted to share with you some links from "The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D." (co-author of *Protein Power* et al). I found this blog to be very helpful when I was going low-carb last year. I don't completely agree with his approach since I tend toward a "raw Paleo"-type diet while he supports a cooked-food low-carb diet and he supports consuming things like alcohol and coffee which doesn't appeal to me. But I value his blog because he does a fine job of putting scientific processes and whatnot into accessible layman's terms within a low-carb context, and he is also quite skilled at picking apart various studies and research to get at the truth behind them. Also, he is very active in responding to the numerous comments that his posts generate. Here are just a few posts that apply to things we've been talking about here, and you'll find much more there if you start looking around...

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/metabolism-and-ketosis/

(which was also posted at http://www.sott.net/articles/show/229730-Metabolism-and-ketosis)

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/ketosis-cleans-our-cells/

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/tips-tricks-for-starting-or-restarting-low-carb-pt-i/

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/saturated-fat/tips-tricks-for-starting-or-restarting-low-carb-pt-ii/


Also (not sure if this has been mentioned already) I thought the following was interesting in that it explains inconsistencies in measuring ketones, esp why they might not register after being in ketosis for a while:

From Phinney and Volek's book *The Art and Science of Low-Carbohydrate Living*:
Within a few days of starting on carbohydrate restriction, most people begin excreting ketones in their urine. This occurs before serum [blood] ketones have risen to their stable adapted level because un-adapted renal tubules actively secrete beta-hyroxybutyrate and acetoacetate [two forms of ketones] into the urine. This is the same pathway that clears other organic acids like uric acid, vitamin C, and penicillin from the serum.

Meanwhile the body is undergoing a complex set of adaptations in ketone metabolism. Beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate are made in the liver in about equal proportions, and both are initially promptly oxidized by muscle. But over a matter of weeks, the muscles stop using these ketones for fuel. Instead, muscle cells take up acetoacetate, reduce it to beta-hydroxybutyrate, and return it back into the circulation. Thus after a few weeks, the major form in the circulation is beta-hydroxybutryate, which also happens to be the ketone preferred by the brain cells (as an aside, the strips that test for ketones in the urine detect the presence of acetoacetate, not beta-hydroxybutyrate).

[...]

These temporal changes in how the kidneys handle ketones make urine ketone testing a rather uncertain if not undependable way of monitoring dietary response/adherance. Testing serum for beta-hydroxybutyrate is much more accurate, but requires drawing blood, and it is expensive because it is not a routine test that doctors normally order.

A non-invasive alternative is to measure breath acetone concentration. [...] A number of businesses have developed prototype handheld devices to measure breath acetone, but at the time of this writing, nothing practical is on the market.


In health :)
Renee
 
A quick thought: people who eat mainly meat: Mongolians.

The nomads of Mongolia sustain their lives directly from the products of domesticated animals such as cattle, horses, camels, yaks, sheep, and goats, and sometimes game. Meat is either cooked, used as an ingredient for soups or dumplings (buuz/khuushuur/bansh), or dried for winter (borts). The Mongolian diet includes a large proportion of animal fat which is necessary for the Mongols to withstand the cold winters and their hard work. Winter temperatures as low as −40 °C/°F and outdoor work require sufficient energy reserves. Milk and cream are used to make a variety of beverages, as well as cheese and similar products.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_cuisine


Perhaps we can we get some teaching from this if we look at their health.
 
Thanks Ellipse
And yes, it brings back again to the issue of the dairies. Should we or not have some or at least for certain genetic types.Although we are on low-carb,my daughter and I tolerate rather well some ewe cheese occasionally (we are both group B) while my wife doesn't (she's O)
 
Don Diego said:
Thanks Ellipse
And yes, it brings back again to the issue of the dairies. Should we or not have some or at least for certain genetic types.Although we are on low-carb,my daughter and I tolerate rather well some ewe cheese occasionally (we are both group B) while my wife doesn't (she's O)

Have you tried eliminating it entirely for a few weeks and then eating a lot on one day, waiting three days to see any reaction?
 
yep, we've stopted last fall and had very occasionally since 2/3 months,maybe twice a month,my wife have had really bad signs and will never eat again
 
Clearly there are a lot of issues with milk. Apart from the problems that many people have digesting it, I have known for over 40 years that pasteurized, homogenized milk is an industrial product to be viewed with suspicion at best, and recent reading in Deep Nutrition has served to underscore the point by detailing the physical and chemical changes that occur during processing. I am not surprised that so many people have so much trouble with it.

I know very little, however, about raw milk. Are people as sensitive to it? Does the research on food sensitivities that has been performed on processed milk even apply to raw milk? I don't know. Casein and other components of raw milk are radically transformed by processing.

...Using the powerful electron microscope, we can magnify milk 10,000,000 times. Now we can see casein micelles, which are amazingly complex. Imagine a mound of spaghetti and meatballs formed into a big round ball. The strands of spaghetti are made of protein (casein), and the meatballs are made of the most digestible form of calcium phosphate, called colloidal calcium phosphate, which holds the spaghetti strands together in a clump with its tiny magnetic charge. This clumping prevents sugar from reacting with and destroying milk’s essential amino acids.

Each tiny globe of fat in the milk is enclosed inside a phospholipid membrane very similar to the membrane surrounding every cell in your body. The mammary gland cell that produced the fat droplet donated some of its membrane when the droplet exited the cell. This coating performs several tasks, starting in the milk duct where it prevents fat droplets from coalescing and clogging up mom’s mammary passageways.

The milk fat globule’s lipid bilayer is studded with a variety of specialized proteins, just like the living cells in your body. Some proteins protect the globule from bacterial infection while others are tagged with short chains of sugars that may function as a signal to the intestinal cell that the contents are to be accepted without immune inspection, streamlining digestion. Still others may act as intestinal cell growth factors, encouraging and directing intestinal cells growth and function. As long as the coating surrounds the milk fat globule, the fat is easily digested, the gallbladder doesn’t have to squeeze out any bile for the fat to be absorbed, the fatty acids inside the blob are isolated from the calcium in the casein micelles, and everything goes smoothly. But if calcium and fats come into contact with one another, as we’ll see in a moment, milk loses much of its capacity to deliver nutrients into your body.

Let’s go back to the light microscope to take a look at pasteurized, homogenized milk and identify what distinguishes it from raw. One striking difference will be the homogeneity of fat globule sizes and the absence of living bacteria. But the real damage is hiding behind all this homogeneity and is only revealed under the electron microscope. Now, we see that these fat blobs lack the sophisticated bilayer wrapping and are instead caked with minerals and tangled remnants of casein micelles. Why does it look like this? The heat of pasteurization forces the sugar to react with amino acids, denaturing the proteins and knocking the fragile colloidal calcium phosphate out of the spaghetti-and-meatballs matrix, while the denatured spaghetti strands tangle into a tight, hard knot.

Homogenization squeezes the milk through tiny holes under intense pressure, destroying the architecture of the fat globules. Once the two processing steps have destroyed the natural architecture of milk, valuable nutrients react with each other with health-damaging consequences. Processing can render milk highly irritating to the intestinal tract, and such a wide variety of chemical changes may occur that processed milk can lead to diarrhea or constipation. During processing, the nice, soft meatball of colloidal calcium phosphate fuses with the fatty acids to form a kind of milkfat soap. This reaction, called saponification, irritates many people’s GI tracts and makes the calcium and phosphate much less bioavailable and more difficult to absorb.189

How difficult? Food conglomerates have a lot of influence on the direction of research funding. And the dairy industry is big business. Little wonder that no studies have been funded to compare the nutritional value raw, whole cow’s milk to pasteurized head-to-head. But studies have been done on skim milk and human breast milk comparing fresh versus pasteurized, and the difference is dramatic: Processed milks contained anywhere from one half to one sixth the bioavailable minerals of the fresh products.190,191 When fresh, the milk fat globule carries signal molecules on the surface, which help your body recognize milk as a helpful substance as opposed to, say, an invasive bacteria. Processing demolishes those handy signals and so, instead of getting a free pass into the intestinal cell, the curiously distorted signals slow the process of digestion down so much that it can lead to constipation.192 Heat destroys amino acids, especially the fragile essential amino acids, and so pasteurized milk contains less protein than fresh.193 But the damaged amino acids don’t just disappear; they have been glycated, oxidized and transformed into stuff like N-carboxymethyl-lysine, malonaldehyde, and 4-hydroxynonanal—potentential allergens and proinflammatory irritants.194

And there’s more. Many of the active enzymes in fresh milk designed to help streamline the digestive process have also been destroyed. Other enzymes, such as xanthine oxidase, which ordinarily protect the milk (but cause damage inside our arteries) can play stowaway within the artificially formed fat blobs and be absorbed. Normally our digestive system would chop up this enzyme and digest it. But hidden inside fat, it can be ingested whole, and may retain some of its original activity. Once in the body, xanthine oxidase can generate free radicals and lead to atherosclerosis and asthma. One more thing that makes raw milk special is the surface molecules on milk fat globule membranes, called gangliosides. Gangliosides inhibit harmful bacteria in the intestine. Once digested, they’ve been shown to stimulate neural development.195 Homogenization strips these benefits away...

Shanahan MD, Catherine (2011-04-22). Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food (Kindle Locations 2520-2561). Big Box Books. Kindle Edition.

The author goes on to state that yogurt made from organic pasturized milk is one option because the fermentation process "rejeuvenates" the milk to some degree. But when I consider how much damage has already done to the natural structure of the casein, I am not convinced.

I realize now that a lot of what I learned about milk came from vegans with vested interest in convincing me to consume neither meat nor milk, and while I am not rushing out to find sources of raw milk (I don't even care for it in liquid form), I would like to update the misinformation that I have picked up over the years, and to investigate a potential source of natural dietary fat for maintenance after losing weight (which for me may be quite some time in the future).

Someone at the local Whole Foods Market had a suggestion. He said that it isn't difficult to make yogurt from fresh raw milk. We would have to buy the milk at a specialty health food store. Fortunately, it hasn't been outlawed here and there are a still a few stores in this area (Sacramento, California, US) that carry it. For me it could be something to try in the future, depending on what else I am able to find out.

Does anyone else have experience with raw milk, positive or negative? Laura -- was the cream you tried (if I remember correctly) that didn't go down well raw or processed?

I realize that there will always be foods that some people will be sensitive to. Raw and processed milk and milk protein, however, are so different chemically that I suspect they really should be treated as different foods and evaluated independently of each other.
 
The problem I have with dairy - not just personal here, but accepting that it can be good for anyone - is twofold: First, the fact that casein acts in the intestines very similar to gluten. Obviously, a lot of people eat gluten and don't feel anything, all the while the gut is being turned into a sieve and all kinds of conditions pop up later. I've read that dairy proteins are one of the chief causes of arterial and heart problems. Second: reading "The Enzyme Factor" by the Japanese doctor who invented the colonoscope was pretty revealing about the damage that milk does to the body and in ways that are often not connected to the dairy product being consumed. His wife, for example, died of Lupus and he was convinced that it was due to milk consumption.

So, like I've said before, people who are really sensitive are like canaries in the mine... while there are some things that some people can tolerate and others can't, there seem to be many other things that this "toleration" is not so much toleration as it just doesn't register in a noticeable way in some people.
 
What I am trying to figure out in my spare time (of which I don't really have any to speak of -- I have to take time out of other activities as it is in order to post here), is whether the issues with casein, enzymes, and so forth in milk is due to their intrinsic properties or due to the destruction that occurs in milk when it is processed.

There are many other foods, potentially, that become bad to eat when they are processed. Some of them are inedible in raw form, which perhaps should tell us something, while others may become denatured and toxic when cooked, crushed, pressed, etc.

Also, the fact that raw milk has been restricted or outright banned in so many places in the US seems to me like yet another flag. If there were lots of other sources of high-quality natural fat still available then I might just ignore the issue, and for some people there are. But where I live fat is treated as evil, even when it comes from natural sources, and I am concerned about how that affects our household (two humans and two cats) and I am trying to figure out what to do.

I wish I had a photo of the butcher at Whole Foods Market when he asked me if I wanted a leaner cut of bacon and I told him "the more fat the better."
 
Megan said:
What I am trying to figure out in my spare time (of which I don't really have any to speak of -- I have to take time out of other activities as it is in order to post here), is whether the issues with casein, enzymes, and so forth in milk is due to their intrinsic properties or due to the destruction that occurs in milk when it is processed.

In the case of casein, it is pretty much its intrinsic properties. A derivative of casein is being used as a drug in veterinary medicine. It is like the equivalent of gluten.
 
Psyche said:
In the case of casein, it is pretty much its intrinsic properties. A derivative of casein is being used as a drug in veterinary medicine. It is like the equivalent of gluten.

The casein research I have been reviewing recently seems to focus solely on derivatives. I have to ask myself, if casein in its natural micellular form is so potentially toxic, why would we expose babies to it? Perhaps they do have some defense that is lost later in life, but I would like to see evidence rather than just speculate. But it is not a priority for me at the moment. I will try to keep an eye on the research. Thanks.
 
Megan said:
The casein research I have been reviewing recently seems to focus solely on derivatives. I have to ask myself, if casein in its natural micellular form is so potentially toxic, why would we expose babies to it?

There are studies that give a potential link between beta casomorphin and apnea and infant death syndrome. It seems that analogs of beta casomorphin obtained from cow's milk are particularly powerful. But in general, the studies that I've seen approach the opioid activity in babies as a positive thing to reduce pain, make them sleepy and calm and so forth. Perhaps it is the combination of nutrients, enzymes and other elements in maternal milk that makes it more physiological? Just speculating.
 
reborn said:
I wanted to share with you some links from "The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D." (co-author of *Protein Power* et al). I found this blog to be very helpful when I was going low-carb last year. I don't completely agree with his approach since I tend toward a "raw Paleo"-type diet while he supports a cooked-food low-carb diet and he supports consuming things like alcohol and coffee which doesn't appeal to me. But I value his blog because he does a fine job of putting scientific processes and whatnot into accessible layman's terms within a low-carb context, and he is also quite skilled at picking apart various studies and research to get at the truth behind them. Also, he is very active in responding to the numerous comments that his posts generate. Here are just a few posts that apply to things we've been talking about here, and you'll find much more there if you start looking around...


[…]

Lierre Keith quotes him also a lot in her book The Vegetarian Myth, in the 4th chapter.


Megan said:
Oxajil said:
I find this quite interesting! (bolded by me):

Primal Body Primal Mind said:
The Second Brain?

Although serotonin is a neurotransmitter widely associated with the brain and mood functioning, including the prevention of depression, anxiety, and insomnia, few people are aware that 95% percent of all serotonin production in the body lies not in the brain, but in the gut.

The gut, in fact, has even more neurons than the brain!
The next time you find yourself struggling with mood issues, consider first the quality of your gastointestinal health and digestion. The brain and gut are inextricably linked.

Here is a Scientific American article that provides an introduction to the idea of the "Second Brain." Wouldn't you know, the vagus nerve is deeply involved. :) (But readers of The Polyvagal Theory already know that.)

Absolutely, it is the old James-Cannon debate: body or mind and Porges speaks about it too (at least about Walter Cannon). Gedgaudas (she cites there Jeffrey S. Bland on page 221) mentioned also that there are more bacterias in our gut, than we have cells.

Through the diet change, there is imo also the brain functioning improving, or gut ;), I can memorize much more things and more clearly, most often what I need is to get a picture of things.

Nonetheless I sometimes still have brain fog over the day, which is lifted then most often in the evening. Somehow I suspect also eggs, that they still are not good for me, also when I eat organic eggs and make things sometimes more difficult. But I test out now some different things again, it may also be black tea in the morning which could give a difficult start for the day. What is good that there are not too many things left to test out, so it makes it easier what it might be. ;)
 
Interesting this discussion about dairy as I have recently had a related experience. I have been on holidays for the past 2 weeks and expected to find some sort of saturated fat where I was. Well, I didn't, so I tried butter. I knew I have had problems with dairy all my life, but I decided to give it a go. After about 2, 3 days my gut just completely shut off and said a clear NO, it was bad enough to keep me from having any fat for almost a week, and barely any meat. I would just bloat like a balloon and throw up. So no dairy in any form for me at the moment. I'm afraid that this episode might have threw me out of ketosis, although I stuck to lettuce and cucumber so as to be on the very low carb side. My Ketostix is not accusing ketones but, as we know, these are not reliable and as reborn quoted above, the type of ketones produced stop appearing in the ketostix.
Luckily, from week two we traveled to another city and found a very nice butcher where we got (for free!) some pork skin with plenty of fat attached, and made a good pot of lard.

On a different note, I recently had my cholesterol levels checked out, and although I know that the recommended levels are extremely low, my cholesterol levels came out as high as twice the highest recommended levels:
I was considered to be fasting since it was 14h30 and I had not eaten since 8h30am. Here is what I got:
FASTING TRIGLYCERIDES 0.5 mmol/L < 2.3
FASTING CHOLESTEROL *10.9 mmol/L Optimum <5.0
HDL CHOLESTEROL *3.3 mmol/L 1.2 - 1.7
HDL % of total 30 % 20 and over
LDL CHOLESTEROL *7.4 mmol/L Up to 3.0

The numbers on the left are my results, and the numbers on the right are the (low, statins friendyl) recommended levels. I posted this on this thread rather then the "Saturated Fats and Cholesterol" one because I think it is also related to our research here. I don't know how my cholesterol was looking like before the diet, so I have no means of comparison, but I find it puzzling that several members have noticed a decrease in their cholesterol levels since having started on the diet, and mine is so high.
Any thoughts anyone?

Edit: corrected sentence
 
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