"Life Without Bread"

[Mrs. Peel]

Thanks Laurentien! I think I'm going to give this a go. I bought some chicken liver some time ago, but it's been sitting in my freezer since I didn't know what to do with it. I'm going to make a few alterations to your recipe (I'll leave out the buckwheat flour and maybe use water instead of almond/hemp milk).

I'm defrosting the chicken livers now...
:D

Hi,

I have some chicken livers in my freezer too. I just fry them up in bacon grease with a little salt and pepper. Used to coat them w/buckwheat flour first.

 

[RyanX]

The keto diet results in a steady supply of energy during athletic exercise. Don't expect to do super-powered super-speed feats. Rather i realized becoming a cart-pulling mule, who could almost go all day on fat and meat. That's why, it seems, those men - eating exclusively deer meat and high fat diet - after 2-3 weeks period were able to walk so long distances. I suppose it was with rucksack.

I was talking about this with Perceval today and hearing him describe the changes in himself (after being a carb addict for years and running a marathon on pasta...) I began to wonder if the low-carb approach actually slows down aging, too, since it slows down the whole energy/burning system. ???

Well, Perceval and I have something in common there! (being carb-addict runners) I never ran a marathon (10k was my limit), but I remember we were always told to "carb up" before the races like we were some sort of animals... I remember many spaghetti feeds and pizza gatherings. Looking back at all that junk I ate... wow!

I actually cleared out a bunch of old books from up in my attic and found my old running books from high school. Just for kicks I read what they said about diet. Gawd! I wish I would have copied some of that text just to show how bad it was. The advise they gave basically ran (no pun intended) diametrically opposite to the advise stated in this thread. The main point in one book was: eat all the carbs and sugar that you want and stay away from the fatty foods. No wonder marathon runners have such a high prevalence of heart disease.

Actually, since I've converted to ketosis I've still been trying to run periodically. It was quite an experience at first and I certainly didn't push myself. I could barely run a couple miles. Now I'm back to where I was before the conversion, but I also don't feel the need to run as much either. Twice a week seems to work best now.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

The keto diet results in a steady supply of energy during athletic exercise. Don't expect to do super-powered super-speed feats. Rather i realized becoming a cart-pulling mule, who could almost go all day on fat and meat. That's why, it seems, those men - eating exclusively deer meat and high fat diet - after 2-3 weeks period were able to walk so long distances. I suppose it was with rucksack.

I was talking about this with Perceval today and hearing him describe the changes in himself (after being a carb addict for years and running a marathon on pasta...) I began to wonder if the low-carb approach actually slows down aging, too, since it slows down the whole energy/burning system. ???

Funny you should say that, I was just reading this link:
_http://paleohacks.com/questions/6982/your-best-answer-to-the-caveman-died-young-argument#axzz1WVEyOzur

and this comment caught my eye:

I don't believe paleo people died routinely of infections. Infections that are unable to be fought by the body are a result of poor diet. People were not crowded together so sanitation was not an issue.

There are researchers doing work now indicating that low/no carbohydrate intake coupled with fasting or less frequent eating leads to increase in lifespan. And the animals being studied age slower. So that an animal living twice as long that is actually 6 weeks old looks like it is 3 weeks old. Given that, how would you actually know the age of paleo skeletons? We're using our point of reference.

Extrapolate this to the bible. I'm not one to use religion to explain science, but I do view the bible as a history book. In the early part, very early in agricultural times, people were living to 900 years. Later the lifespans decreased until they approached what we are more familiar with. I believe that the recording of age was accurate and that prehistoric man actually lived hundreds of years.

For more Paleo hacks: http://paleohacks.com/questions/6982/your-best-answer-to-the-caveman-died-young-argument#ixzz1WVF69I7Y

The poster's beliefs aside, he makes an interesting point. How do we know how old the bodies were of paleo people if we are using ourselves as a reference? If we know what our skeleton looks like at age 30, wouldn't the skeleton of someone who ages half as fast look this way when they are, in fact, 60? And wouldn't we then incorrectly assume that they must've been 30?

 

[sebbe]

I don't believe paleo people died routinely of infections. Infections that are unable to be fought by the body are a result of poor diet. People were not crowded together so sanitation was not an issue.

There are researchers doing work now indicating that low/no carbohydrate intake coupled with fasting or less frequent eating leads to increase in lifespan. And the animals being studied age slower. So that an animal living twice as long that is actually 6 weeks old looks like it is 3 weeks old. Given that, how would you actually know the age of paleo skeletons? We're using our point of reference.

I was thinking about this, too.

I wonder if fasting only with fat (not really fasting we could be say) one day or two by week could accelerate the transition. For example, taking one soupspoon of ghee or another fat every hour, all the day, and nothing else. And alternate for example 3 days-1 days like this.
I think i will try it.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Interesting article about low carbs and aging:
_http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1323758/Can-cutting-Carbohydrates-diet-make-live-longer.html

For centuries man has dreamed of being immortal, fixated on tales of magic fountains that restore youth, the rejuvenating power of a vampire’s bite or asses’ milk.

More recently came claims that injections of monkey glands or hormone supplements would make us live longer.

But so far, what’s actually worked are ­medical advances such as vaccines and better living conditions. Over the past century these have boosted average life expectancy by far more than 50 per cent, from 50 to 88.

The problem is that this longevity does not mean a healthier life. Indeed, thanks to chronic diseases such as diabetes and arthritis, we’re becoming like the Struldbruggs — the miserable characters in Gulliver’s Travels who were immortal, but still suffered from all the ­diseases of old age.

Gradually they lost their teeth, their hair, their sense of smell and taste. All their diseases got worse and their memory faded, so they had no idea who their friends and relations were. At funerals they wept because they couldn’t die.

But now a U.S. geneticist is thought to have discovered the secret to a long life, full of health and energy. And the answer might be as simple as cutting down on carbohydrates.

Professor Cynthia Kenyon, whom many experts believe should win the Nobel Prize for her research into ageing, has discovered that the carbohydrates we eat — from bananas and potatoes to bread, pasta, biscuits and cakes — directly affect two key genes that govern youthfulness and longevity.

She made her remarkable breakthrough after studying roundworms, specifically the C.elegans, a worm just a millimetre in size that lives in soil in temperate climates all over the world.

By tweaking some of their genes she has been able to help these worms live up to six times longer than normal. ‘Not only that, but we also know how to make them stay healthy all that time as well,’ she told an audience at the Wellcome Collection in London earlier this month.

So, what do worms have to do with us?

A great deal, it seems. Professor Kenyon’s work has been successfully repeated in labs around the world — the genes she found controlling ageing in worms do the same thing in rats and mice, probably monkeys, and there are signs they are active in humans, too.

This work has revolutionised our understanding of ageing, explains Jeff Holly, professor of clinical sciences at Bristol University.

‘Ten years ago we thought ageing was probably the result of a slow decay, a sort of rusting,’ he says. ‘But Professor Kenyon has shown that it’s not about wear and tear, but instead it is controlled by genes. That opens the possibility of slowing it down with drugs.’

So how does a worm hold the key to human ageing?

At 18 days old the average roundworm is flabby, ­sluggish and wrinkled. Two days later it will probably be dead.

However, Professor Kenyon, based at the University of California, San Francisco, found that damping down the activity of just one of their genes had a dramatic effect.

‘Instead of dying at about 20 days, our first set of mutant worms carried on living to more than 40 days,’ she says.

‘And they weren’t sluggish and worn out — they behaved like youngsters. It was a real shock. In human terms it was the equivalent of talking to someone you thought was about 30 and finding they were actually 60.’

With more sophisticated genetic manipulation, she now has some worms that have lived for an astonishing 144 days. An increase of that proportion would allow humans to live to 450.

Scientists already knew how to make laboratory animals live longer and healthier lives — you just cut back their calories to about three-quarters of their normal amount.

It’s not a practical solution for humans, because you feel cold and hungry all the time.

But what Professor Kenyon found out was why ­drastically reducing calories has such a remarkable effect.

She discovered that it changed the way two crucial genes behaved. It turned down the gene that controls insulin, which in turn switched on another gene, which acted like an elixir of life.

‘We jokingly called the first gene the Grim Reaper because when it’s switched on, the lifespan is fairly short,’ she explains.

The ­second ‘elixir’ gene seems to bring all the anti-ageing benefits — its proper name is DAF 16, but it was quickly nicknamed ‘Sweet Sixteen’ because it turned the worms into teenagers.

‘It sends out instructions to a whole range of repair and renovation genes,’ says Professor Kenyon.

‘Your supply of natural anti­oxidants goes up, damping down damaging free radicals.’

These are the ­compounds produced by our body and the environment, which are linked to a host of diseases from ­cancer to Alzheimer’s.

The Sweet Sixteen gene also ‘boosts compounds that make sure the skin and muscle-building ­proteins are working properly, the immune system becomes more active to fight infection and genes that are active in cancer get turned off,’ she adds.

Kenyon had stumbled on the genetic equivalent of Shangri-La, the fictional valley where people could live for years without really ageing.

Discovering the Grim Reaper gene has prompted the professor to ­dramatically alter her own diet, ­cutting right back on carbohydrates. That’s because carbs make your body produce more insulin (to mop up the extra blood sugar carbs ­produce); and more insulin means a more active Grim Reaper.

So the vital second gene, the ‘elixir’ one, won’t get turned on. To test this, last year she added a tiny amount of ­sugary glucose to the normal diet of some of her worms that had had their genes engineered so they were living much longer, healthier lives.

‘The effect was remarkable,’ she says. ‘The sugary glucose blocked the “youthful” genes and they lost most of the health gains.’

But was this just a special feature of the roundworm or did we all have it?

Following Kenyon’s lead, other researchers started looking for the Grim Reaper/ Sweet Sixteen combination in other animals — and of course in humans. They found it.

One clue came from a small remote community of dwarves living in northern Ecuador who are cancer-free. They are missing the part of the Grim Reaper gene that controls a hormone called insulin-like growth factor. The downside is they only grow to 4ft tall because the hormone is needed for growth.

But this missing bit of the Grim Reaper gene also means they don’t develop cancer and are less likely to suffer from heart disease or obesity.

Professor Jeff Holly, who specialises in insulin-like growth factor, confirms that it is linked to cancer of the prostate, breast and colon.

In fact raised insulin levels, triggered by high carbohydrate ­consumption, could be what ­connects many of our big killers.

Research is at its early stage, but raised insulin triggers an increase in cholesterol production in the liver, makes the walls of blood vessels ­contract so blood pressure goes up and stimulates the release of fats called triglycerides (linked to heart disease).

Professor Kenyon’s work is ­creating a wave of excitement among drug companies who’ve been researching molecules that will damp down the Grim Reaper and boost Sweet ­Sixteen, giving us the benefits of very low-calorie diets without the ­penalties. So far, none is very near being approved.

One way to reduce insulin levels is to exercise, which makes you more sensitive to it, which in turn means you need less of it. It also gives another health benefit in a surprising way. Exercise actually increases the level of damaging free radicals which stimulates the body to produce more protective anti-oxidants.

So should we all be trying to cut back on carbs to reduce our insulin levels?

It is a suggestion that flies in the face of 30 years of health advice to have a lower fat intake and eat plenty of long-lasting complex carbo­hydrates to keep the body supplied with energy.

There is no denying the extra­ordinary breakthrough Kenyon’s work represents and she ‘deserves the Nobel Prize for her findings about ageing’, says David Gems, deputy director of the Institute for Healthy Ageing at University ­College, London.

However he isn’t convinced we know enough for us all to start eating a low-carb diet.

‘The exact role of insulin in health and ageing is a promising and fascinating area,’ he says. ‘But I’m not sure the evidence for the benefit of cutting carbohydrates and keeping insulin levels down is strong enough yet.’

But Professor Kenyon herself doesn’t need convincing.

‘Carbo­hydrates, and especially refined ones like sugar, make you produce lots of extra insulin. I’ve been keeping my intake really low ever since I discovered this.

‘I’ve cut out all starch such as potatoes, noodles, rice, bread and pasta. Instead I have salads, but no sweet dressing, lots of olive oil and nuts, tons of green vegetables along with cheese, chicken and eggs.

‘I’ll have a hamburger without a bun and fish without batter or chips. I eat some fruit every day, but not too much and almost no processed food. I stay away from sweets, except 80 per cent chocolate.’

She is adamant it will be well worthwhile. ‘You could have two completely different careers if you could stay healthy to 90,’ she says. ‘How fascinating that would be.’

She realizes that carbs/insulin=bad but apparently doesn't yet realize that lots of good fats = very good. I know the C's said that in 4th density we will live for 400+ years, but it would be funny if that's not because of 4th density necessarily but because of a proper diet in 3rd density. Even living to 90 and being full of health and energy would be a drastic improvement over what old age brings with it today.

 

[mcb]

She realizes that carbs/insulin=bad but apparently doesn't yet realize that lots of good fats = very good. I know the C's said that in 4th density we will live for 400+ years, but it would be funny if that's not because of 4th density necessarily but because of a proper diet in 3rd density. Even living to 90 and being full of health and energy would be a drastic improvement over what old age brings with it today.

If Deep Nutrition is to be believed, and I suspect that a lot of the material in it is, you can manipulate your own genes (via epigenetic control) by improving nutrition. Not just gross factors such as fat, protein, and carbs, but the myriad of nutrients that are so lacking in western diet.

 

[Gawan]

To give an update.

On the one hand I'm doing better and on the other I still have some problems.

Especially the dizzy spells/lightheadedness is still there also the salt intake doesn't help much (about 5grs of himalayan salt). The dizzyness starts in the morning and sometimes goes over the whole day, till after I take a nap it disappears slowly and in the evening I'm fit with a clear head and the possibility to fully concentrate myself. So far I don't know why this feeling is getting lifted in the evening.

This night I also had a cramp again, so I went one more time for L-Carnitin and ordered finally also potassium, alas it contains stearates, where I then read in PBPM that it is not recommended, so I will send it back and order something different, where for example calcium-citrate is included.

What I find interesting is the influence on the blood-sugar and the time when I eat dinner, when I eat before 7p.m. the BG is in normal range in the morning and eating after 7 it is high. It is also a recommendation by Dr. Bernstein to eat 5hrs before going to bed, nonetheless I hope that I don't have delayed stomach emptying (also something Dr. Bernstein mentions), so I like to do some tests.

Another test I'm doing at the moment is taking butter out of my diet for two weeks and eating ghee instead and with that trying also to get more qualified food, good butter (after the two weeks) and meat if possible. It would also be possible to get game meat (grass fed deer), but then I must take minimum half of an animal, which I couldn't store anywhere and in November beef would be possible to buy, since relatives are living in the countryside.


All in all PMPM was a really good read, also when I must admit that the author sometimes tends to repeat herself, well nobody is perfect. ;). The next book I'm ordering is The Vegetarian Myth.

 

[Miss.K]

If you search the Diet and Health board for "foundation vegetables", it will bring up the veggies recommended to eat as you transition to low carb/high fat.

I tried to search for "foundation vegetables" and didn't find anything.(I don't know if it is selective blindness on my part, I tried several times)
I know that I'll figure it out reading the diet threads, but as I will take a couple of weeks (at least) to read 3 threads on diet, to know enough to know about vegetables, I wondered if there is a "foundation vegetables" thread, or list somewhere, of good vegetables, so I can shop for the right ones until I'm finished reading.

If such exist, I would greatly appreciate to get pointed in the direction, :)

Thanks

 

[Jacques]

If you search the Diet and Health board for "foundation vegetables", it will bring up the veggies recommended to eat as you transition to low carb/high fat.

I tried to search for "foundation vegetables" and didn't find anything.(I don't know if it is selective blindness on my part, I tried several times)
I know that I'll figure it out reading the diet threads, but as I will take a couple of weeks (at least) to read 3 threads on diet, to know enough to know about vegetables, I wondered if there is a "foundation vegetables" thread, or list somewhere, of good vegetables, so I can shop for the right ones until I'm finished reading.

If such exist, I would greatly appreciate to get pointed in the direction, :)

Thanks

Have a look at those links :

http://www.atkins.com/Program/Phase1/HowtoDoInductionRight/FoundationVegetables.aspx

http://www.atkins.com/Program/Phase1/WhatYouCanEatinthisPhase/foundation_vegetables.aspx

 

[Miss.K]

Have a look at those links :

http://www.atkins.com/Program/Phase1/HowtoDoInductionRight/FoundationVegetables.aspx

http://www.atkins.com/Program/Phase1/WhatYouCanEatinthisPhase/foundation_vegetables.aspx

Thank you Gandalf

 

[Rabelais]

A question for Psyche...

I was wondering about something to quell sugar cravings and started thinking about meringue, for those who can tolerate eggs. It is essentially egg whites (protein) and sugar. Substitute the sugar with xylitol and...?

I searched a recipe and found one for Pecan Meringue Cookies. Substitute macadamia or walnuts and we stay within the diet nut parameters. Here are the ingredient needs for this:

Ingredients

* 1 cup whole pecans (preferably lightly roasted - 8-10 min at 250°F) {pre-soaked and dried macadamia or walnut}
* 3 egg whites
* Pinch salt {Himalayan}
* 1 cup sugar {xylitol}
* 1 teaspoon vinegar {organic apple cider vinegar}

Maybe add a bit of organic unsweetened cacao powder and voila! Chocolate nut meringue!

OK, Psyche... what would be the downside to something like this? Bad idea?

Here is the full recipe _http://simplyrecipes.com/recipes/pecan_meringue_cookies/

I have now begun to lose the sweet tooth that bothered me for the first couple of weeks on the diet, but still the desert desire occasionally arises after a meal. One of these would nip it in the bud.

I was amazed that quitting coffee on this diet would be so easy. No problems at all with that. I was afraid that there would be a rather uncomfortable withdrawal, but no. Three weeks completely coffee free now. Only an occasional afternoon tea.

 

[Rabelais]

This night I also had a cramp again, so I went one more time for L-Carnitin and ordered finally also potassium, alas it contains stearates, where I then read in PBPM that it is not recommended, so I will send it back and order something different, where for example calcium-citrate is included.

I went through this when I was ordering L Carnitine and reviewing the ingredients. I finally ordered it in one pound powder form. That way none of the bad stuff is in it that is required for tableting or capsule preparations.

_http://www.vitacost.com/Vitacost-L-Glutamine-Powder-4-500-mg-per-serving-1-1-lbs

I also ordered a potassium ascorbate. The mineral ascorbates are highly bioavailable. This comes as powder ascorbic acid with potassium carbonate. When put in a glass with water, the ascorbic acid reacts with the carbonate, fizzes and creates potassium ascorbate, which you then drink. It is much less acidic in this form.

_http://www.nutri.com/index.cfm/product/16/potassium-ascorbate.cfm

The eight mineral ascorbates, which make up the final state of ingested vitamin C, are reacted in the liver when one consumes ascorbic acid. They are then distributed throughout the body to fulfill the required needs. Taken as ascorbates, they are already in their bioavailable form and ready to go to work. From the Linus Pauling Institute website:

_http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/ss01/bioavailability.html

 

[Gaby]

A question for Psyche...

I was wondering about something to quell sugar cravings and started thinking about meringue, for those who can tolerate eggs. It is essentially egg whites (protein) and sugar. Substitute the sugar with xylitol and...?

To calm down carb cravings, you can try sublingual L-glutamine. The cravings will subside as you get adapted to the new diet. L-glutamine at a dose of 5000mg twice per day also helps to calm down carb cravings and it will heal your gut which is crucial in any autoimmune problem.

If you tolerate eggs, you can have this dessert occasionally, but the egg whites are not ideal when you are trying to calm down an autoimmune problem. From what I've seen and in my experience, the sweetness of sugar free desserts have the drawback that it can make you crave even more carbs. BTW, xylitol counts as carbs.

 

[mcb]

If you search the Diet and Health board for "foundation vegetables", it will bring up the veggies recommended to eat as you transition to low carb/high fat.

I tried to search for "foundation vegetables" and didn't find anything.(I don't know if it is selective blindness on my part, I tried several times)
I know that I'll figure it out reading the diet threads, but as I will take a couple of weeks (at least) to read 3 threads on diet, to know enough to know about vegetables, I wondered if there is a "foundation vegetables" thread, or list somewhere, of good vegetables, so I can shop for the right ones until I'm finished reading.

If such exist, I would greatly appreciate to get pointed in the direction, :)

Thanks

It's all in how you search. If you search the forum using the built-in search it may very well not take you right to what you are looking for. If you a Google search of this form

site:cassiopaea.org/forum "foundation vegetables"

it will take you right there. Note the quote marks around the phrase -- a request to search for that particular sequence of words.

 

[Rabelais]

A question for Psyche...

I was wondering about something to quell sugar cravings and started thinking about meringue, for those who can tolerate eggs. It is essentially egg whites (protein) and sugar. Substitute the sugar with xylitol and...?

To calm down carb cravings, you can try sublingual L-glutamine. The cravings will subside as you get adapted to the new diet. L-glutamine at a dose of 5000mg twice per day also helps to calm down carb cravings and it will heal your gut which is crucial in any autoimmune problem.

If you tolerate eggs, you can have this dessert occasionally, but the egg whites are not ideal when you are trying to calm down an autoimmune problem. From what I've seen and in my experience, the sweetness of sugar free desserts have the drawback that it can make you crave even more carbs. BTW, xylitol counts as carbs.

Thanks Psyche. I was pretty sure there were going to be qualifiers for that recipe. I am mostly past the after meal sugar cravings now, but today one snuck up on me I started just having a couple of raw egg yolks in the morning, along with my varied pork entrees. The whites were piling up in the fridge. I guess they go to the dogs now.

What is the carb content of xylitol, say, per teaspoon? The only time I take any is with tea (1 tsp), which I don't drink daily. Kicking caffeine altogether. I don't recall ever seeing any carb info on xylitol, except on the NOW brand label (4g per tsp - a lot), but it is derived from corn husks. Bad ju ju. I don't know if the birch sourced xylitol that we use is different. Probably couldn't be too much, though.