"Life Without Bread"

[Tina]

If bile is not being produced, or if the bile ducts are blocked, you can have gray or pale stools. This can also happen when the digestive system is not absorbing fats very well. There's other health conditions that can cause this, so you may want to do a search on the subject. Psyche may have more input on the issue.

 

[Gaby]

Anyone experience something like this: Feeling of something flowing in liver/gallbladder area. I can feel liver or gallbladder growling little bit, as if there is some fluid/air(?) is being pumped/drained along with slight ticklish sensation. Other observation that sometimes stool is very light grayish color if it matters. It's not normal, isn't it ? I am practically on 0 carbs now. I take Vit C & milk thistle and alpha-lipoic acid and enzymes (w/ ox bile)

When you suddenly go on a high-fat diet, the gallbladder now has work to do. It contracts in response to the fat. If there was stasis of bile from a low fat diet, some stones might had formed that are now being dislodged in response to the contractions. But this is usually painful.

The supplements you are taking will help you your liver and gallbladder adjust until your stools become normalized. You can also take phosphatidylcholine and taurine for good bile formation. If the ox bile is included in the enzymes, check out the dose. You might want to get it separately in order to be able to get a higher dose.

I would increase the amount of carbs to help get into this diet more moderately. You can get some 10 g of fiber from soluble fiber by eating green veggies like green beans (some 20 or 40grams of carbs per day). Even the author of the Fiber Menace recommends this (10 grams of soluble fiber per day in order to feed the good bacteria. If I remember correctly, more than 15 grams is trouble in the long-term). When your stools normalize, you can cut out carbs down to see how it goes. But know that 20 grams of carbs per day from veggies you can tolerate is perfectly reasonable.

 

[Alana]

I think that compared to those people, you were the lucky one. Your body was able to tell you that something was wrong...

Exactly. I consider now my body as a friend who tells me what is wrong for me/him. I begin not to be in conflict with myself, with what i see in a mirror., with the pain.

That's a great way to put it, and thank you for sharing your journey to health with us, sebbe. For a long time, like you, I was convinced by various misguiding sources that appealed to my mind that I could control my body through it. Then came the "no meat, whole grains, fruits and veggies" expert advices. I am so grateful for all the research done here, because for once my body feels better than ever, and so is my mind and my moods too.

I would have an advice : in the thread, there are many books cited . From them i'm going to buy one , to begin. I see pdf version on amazon, and it's good for me because i can translate it more easily in my computer with goods dictionnaries.
But which one the best to begin?

Is it possible for you to get any of the books in French, so that it is easier to read? I know that the Vegetarian Myth will be translated in French in the near future, but I wouldn't know how to search for the other books in your language. But to answer your question, and I am still trying to catch up with the reading list of diet books too, I would start with Life without bread, or the Vegetarian Myth. Others might have a different advice.

 

[Infiniteness]

Finished reading "Life without bread", great book. Started reading "The Vegetarian Myth'. I hate how big pharma and big medicine are reaping massive amounts of profits from all these suffering. Blows my mind away.

 

[Ellipse]

I can't seem to sleep the night through either. I quit taking melatonin and 5htp cause they didn't do anything and I don't notice any difference without them. Mostly I seem to be waking to use the toilet from drinking a lot of water to wash down all those supplements. In addition to the regular after meal supplements, I take magnesium, glutamine, and colostrum in the morning and night before bedtime (for the empty stomach effect) so I need to wash them down well. Plus, if I do a sauna when I get home from work, I usually drink two bottles of water. What goes in must come out, I guess.

There is something else I've noticed. Often, whenever I doze off and wake up, I start to have a "hot flash." It's like when my brain kicks back into full consciousness after being in La-La land, something flips the "overheat" button. This happens when I wake up in the middle of the night, or if I doze off in a chair, or at my desk on a slow day.

Here's Cayce reading about someone who had "hot flash" :

EC: Yes, we have the body here, [601]; this we have had before.
While there are disturbing conditions that arise at times, from the general natural causes or changes that are arising in the body at this time, these - as we find - will require - owing to the general nerve reactions - precautions to be taken by the body.
No undue excitement. No overtaxation by too great a wearying of the body in physical exercises, especially a great deal of cleaning or working with the hands or things that require the use of the body in the strength or in lifting or things of the nature. These tend to produce localization of disturbing factors.
Well that the body use a tonic that would be compounded in this way and manner:
To 1 ounce of Strained Honey add 2 ounces of Distilled Water, as a carrier. Let this come to a boil, or almost. Then while warm, not hot, add - in the order named:

Tincture of Valerian.................2 ounces,
Elixir of Calisaya...............1 1/2 ounces,
10% solution Iodide of Potassium....20 minims,
10% solution Bromide of Potassium...30 minims,
Tincture of Capsici..................5 minims.

Shake this together when the dose is taken, which would be a teaspoonful - either plain or in a little water - only when there are those tendencies for nervousness or of a strain in any nature through excitement or when the body is tired. Well that this be taken never closer than three hours apart but take rather once or twice a day WHEN necessary, than taking continually. Usually for the body to rest is this to be taken, and to quiet the nerves. These ingredients compounded in this manner are rather bitter, but will come to mean so much that they may be taken easily.
It would be well for the massages to be taken once a week, oftener if the body is tired.
Sitz baths - hot foot baths - are well, too, when the body is tired.
These should be distributed - all of these applications - in periods, and not just continue to be taken, see? For, as indicated or as known by the body, it requires some three to nine months and longer, if precautions are not taken, for the body to ADJUST itself to these changes that are arising.
Also the tonic would be well when there are headaches by strain, overreading.
Have the regular rest periods, and we will find conditions will come along in a nominal way and manner.
Ready for questions.
(Q) Should the tonic be taken for relief of the flashes?
(A) The flashes or hot and cold sensations or smothery spells that come, you see, are from overexercise or over- excitement or anxieties. And these are natural conditions that arise. And the tonic may be taken at such periods. Not to PREVENT them, but to make for coordination in the system when they exist.
(Q) Should this be taken for restlessness and sleeplessness at night?
(A) This may be taken then also, for it tends to make for resting.
But the use of the Radio-Active Appliance at such times will create a BETTER effect than these properties, for sleeplessness or restlessness.
[...]

Seem something is correlated with your case as sleep was involved too.

Another reading talking about "hot flash": 950-1:

(Q) What causes the hot flashes which cause such weak spells, and what can be done to alleviate this condition?
(A) The disturbance in the circulation is the cause. Do as indicated.

 

[Laurentien2]

One thing I've noticed about dropping the protein is that the meals are much less satiating. I've gone from being fine on 2 meals per day to needing 3, sometimes 4 small meals. I seem to spend more of my day hungry than previously, too.

I'm also quite dismayed at how small meals are now. I got myself a food scale to start measuring things instead of just guessing all the time. I was extremely frustrated last night when I measured out the meat from a cooked chicken wing I had leftover in the fridge and realize I couldn't eat a second one without overshooting the 25g protein limit by about 9 grams. I ate it anyway. (I'm using nutritiondata.com, and figured out the amount of protein in the meat I pulled from an admittedly large chicken wing was 17g).

I've been doing my best to try to compensate by loading up on as much fat as I can. In fact, I don't really see how I could eat more fat unless I was literally just eating lard with a spoon. My food is swimming in fat and I'm licking my plate clean of it. I also often eat two spoonfuls of coconut oil for "dessert". The fat helps in the short term, but the low protein meals just don't seem to have the same staying power.

This means I'm getting hungry before bed. If I eat dinner at 5 or 6, I'm hungry again by 9 and needing a snack. I haven't eaten snacks in a long time and I'm not really set up for them. What are people doing for snacks these days? Today I ate two fried eggs as a midafternoon snack . I just finished a salad with olive and coconut oil and a squeeze of lemon and a handful of nuts.

All in all, I'm having a difficult time imagining our paleo ancestors eating this way. It seems highly restrictive, which I can't see anyone doing without being prompted to do so. Is anyone else struggling with this?

dugdeep, I eat pate de fois, made with equal weight of lard (0 protein) and chicken liver (24gr / per 100 gr). This is what keep me away from carb during the day and if you eat some before a meal, it take away a good part of your appetite. I cook kilo of this paté at a time http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,21014.msg217269.html#msg217269 and eat it with every meal and if I feel hungry during the day, a spoonful take away the craving.

 

[Psalehesost]

Summary of my experiences thus far:

Having lost all "need" for the carbier food I used to eat, I live almost exclusively on sausage, bacon and eggs, as well as additional fat. No noticeable digestive issues. Physical strength and/or endurance has increased a bit, judging by performance when occasionally running - but then, a lessening of mental clutter/distraction makes for a large part of the difference - and this is likely also connected with other recent efforts.

None of the nasty problems others have reported. Do take additional potassium in the form of using up - for my meals - some old "mineral salt" with 70% potassium chloride and 30% sodium chloride - no clear difference associated with this.

I never get tired of bacon, eggs and sausage. I see no reason at all for me to experiment with veggies - things seem to work, and I doubt veggies would improve anything.

On the carbier side, on and off I sometimes eat a small amount of leverpastej (paste made of pig liver and lard), which unfortunately has a small amount of sugar added in addition to its potato flour - I don't notice any impact, but then I only add a limited amount to some of my meals, keeping in mind the carb content - it adds at most 2-3g total to a meal.

Hard, otherwise, to find organ meat products here - at least organic. For now, I live on supermarket food - organic, yet hardly optimal, I think.

A small amount of carbs at some meals - mainly, the sausage also contains a bit of potato flour, making 4g of carbs per 100g - makes for greater energy. Still very little per day.

I've noticed - after a couple of years of remaining the same height - that I've grown a little, and my legs are a little bit sore still. This is interesting in light of the hormone balance issue written of in Life Without Bread, where the body can compensate for higher insulin by cutting down on hormones in the same general category, including growth hormones. Perhaps balancing this up with the diet (same reason underweight people - like me - are supposed to gain a healthy weight. this may come, I guess. to be seen in coming months) has made my body resume the last part of its growth, given that I'm still in my early twenties?

Since, no further change of this kind noted. Also, weight has yet to change - now the same as it was back when I ate plenty of carbs, ie. ~51kg or so.

Another change to note - my sleeping patterns have become less erratic lately. They used to change such that, if I didn't have the need for an alarm clock at the time, "day" and "night" for me would more or less randomly rotate, stand still, and rotate in reverse. Never was a problem actually sleeping when tired, though - I also got the needed amount of sleep, just often at unusual times.

 

[Miss.K]

I haven't finished reading this thread yet (slow reader, especially when it comes to supplements ect.-technical language- as English is not native language)

But I wanted to share my experience related to diet, and will wait asking questions till I have finished reading. (so much reading and so little time)
Sorry that it is a bit long, and hope I'm not wasting anybodies time.

A little background: Last year I ate a lot of frozen pizzas due to low income and being too stressed by other circumstances to make real food for myself, and had gotten what I called pizza poisoning=very low energy, and possibly adrenal fatigue, as my stress limit seems lower than ever, sometimes to the point of freaking out just because having to wash my dishes becomes "aaaaggggrrr I can't stand any more pressure"
So this year in the springtime I started to switch bread with meat, and I was for a time eating garden elder (free food when one is living with a garden) with the meat, as income was/is still minimum. I think there might be something good about garden elder, as when I started eating fatty pork meat with garden elder it seemed that my candida disappeared in 3 days (at least my stomach got kind of flat) And this haven't happened by eating only pork meat with parsley.
I stopped with the garden elder after about 1 or 2 months as it really tastes best in the springtime when the plant is young. (and though delicious in the start, it cries for variation after a while)
I then thought I better check diet threads here in the forum, to find out if I was on the right track, and started reading the Detox or die thread, and got to the recipes that were almost vegetarian. Air headed and stressed, (and possibly in a new Idiot category=Intensely stupid Idiot) I didn't finish reading, but thought, OK I better buy some brown rice. Now I never was too crazy about rice, but I really wanted to get more energy,
...but after starting the rice eating stomach got bloated again, and my conclusion was that the evil white rice inside the brown rice wasn't good for me.

I have to add that I have a few times during this whole period been eating wheat, cheese, berries with cream and sugar, and chocolate ice cream, but so few times that I have been able to feel the druggy effect of it, which I didn't feel before when I was used to eating it (last time I ate some bread and cheese was about 3 weeks ago) I haven't had strong cravings (except for chocolate ice cream when having my period) Also I am still a coffee junkie (I know I have to quit it, but have to take baby steps due to the stress that shoots evil chemicals into my body- that are possibly more dangerous than caffeine, -when I put too much pressure on myself)

I had to eat the rice I had with a little meat (still the lack of money that means having to eat what I have) but got a little money last week and bought lots of meat and some coconut fat (very expensive), as I thought I would try to get the fat% up. (before I used olive oil) So Thursday I cooked some pork with coconut fat, and licked the plate, but either my liver couldn't take that much fat or I might not be a coconut person, because I felt a little sick after eating, had a little cramps in my feet before sleeping, and woke up yesterday feeling like I had had way too much cheep white wine. -Really bad headache, threw up twice after trying to drink some salt water, had to skip work, and slept till 4 pm. Still had head ache all evening, drank some mint tea, that didn't seem to help much, managed to eat some berries, and a little calf liver in the evening, still have traces of a head ache today, and wish it was possible to live without eating, as I don't really feel like ever eating anything again.

I am not in a position to be able to buy supplements at the moment, I do have omega 3 pills, and some (bad quality) c-vitamins, and some mint in the garden.

I will wait a while before I try the coconut fat again, and just continue with the meat, and maybe try the garden elder again, also get some bones to make bone soup. And finish reading the thread, as it seems to me that other people have had similar problems, so might find solution.

Thank you all for all the valuable info there is in this forum, (and thank you Laura for the video about kitchen equipment, I knew Teflon was dangerous, but I didn't know it was so dangerous, I threw out my Teflon pan right after seeing the video)

 

[Miss.K]

Correction, it is not called garden elder, but Ground elder, sorry

 

[herondancer]

Hi MissK.

It will really be worth your time to read the whole thread, as well as the Vegetarian Myth thread. You will see how the concepts have developed as more research and experiences were posted. It looks like you dove into eating too much fat before your liver and gall bladder were ready for it. Try cutting the dairy and gluten (including rice as you found out), but leaving some carb. It's cool you can eat stuff from your garden. If you search the Diet and Health board for "foundation vegetables", it will bring up the veggies recommended to eat as you transition to low carb/high fat. They will be better for you than sugar-rich berries. You can also use oxbile and milk thistle to give your liver some support, when you are able to get more supplements. It takes some time to heal the damage from 'pizza poisoning' (love that!) Bone broth is terrific, and a great snack whenever you feel hungry.

Have you looked into the Eiriu Eolas program yet? It will help stabilise you physically, mentally and emotionally. Find it here. You might want to check out the Ultra Simple Diet thread too, as it will help you figure out if you have any particular food sensitivities. The link is to the latest version which is posted on the Eiriu Eolas forum.

Let us know how it goes for you. :)

edit: fixed bad link

 

[sebbe]

Is it possible for you to get any of the books in French, so that it is easier to read? I know that the Vegetarian Myth will be translated in French in the near future, but I wouldn't know how to search for the other books in your language. But to answer your question, and I am still trying to catch up with the reading list of diet books too, I would start with Life without bread, or the Vegetarian Myth. Others might have a different advice.

Thank you Alana.

 

[Laura]

Is it possible for you to get any of the books in French, so that it is easier to read? I know that the Vegetarian Myth will be translated in French in the near future, but I wouldn't know how to search for the other books in your language. But to answer your question, and I am still trying to catch up with the reading list of diet books too, I would start with Life without bread, or the Vegetarian Myth. Others might have a different advice.

Thank you Alana.

I think the best one so far - and we keep going further and further down the rabbit hole of the lies we've been told about diet and healthe - is "Primal Body, Primal Mind". There are a couple things that are contradictory in there, but overall, it covers the most material in line with what we have gleaned from so many other sources, with the least glaring omissions, and the most new research.

 

[sebbe]

Thank you Laura.
I took from amazon with Kindle for Pc. Only 13 dollars!
The format is restrictive but it will do the trick.

 

[Nienna]

Thanks for the reminder NE - I do sometimes slack on this. Just lately I've been bumping it up to the point of having to get up to pee 3X per night. The Mg treatment last night didn't help but during the day today, seems a little better. I'll try the treatment again tonight. That deep "core" pain (like go2 describes it) is very strange and a real sleep robber for me.

With the water thing. It's not good to overdo it either. Having to get up 3 times during the night to use the bathroom is not good.

I usually drink the bulk of my water by the afternoon. Since I have my biggest meal in the morning, that's when I drink the most water. I reduce it during the day, going mainly by thirst. I find that using a lot of salt, helps me to want to drink the water. But there is such a thing as water toxicity, too. So don't overdue it.

 

[Miss.K]

Hi MissK.

It will really be worth your time to read the whole thread, as well as the Vegetarian Myth thread. You will see how the concepts have developed as more research and experiences were posted. It looks like you dove into eating too much fat before your liver and gall bladder were ready for it. Try cutting the dairy and gluten (including rice as you found out), but leaving some carb.
It's cool you can eat stuff from your garden. If you search the Diet and Health board for "foundation vegetables", it will bring up the veggies recommended to eat as you transition to low carb/high fat. They will be better for you than sugar-rich berries. You can also use oxbile and milk thistle to give your liver some support, when you are able to get more supplements. It takes some time to heal the damage from 'pizza poisoning' (love that!) Bone broth is terrific, and a great snack whenever you feel hungry.

Have you looked into the Eiriu Eolas program yet? It will help stabilise you physically, mentally and emotionally. Find it here. You might want to check out the Ultra Simple Diet thread too, as it will help you figure out if you have any particular food sensitivities. The link is to the latest version which is posted on the Eiriu Eolas forum.

Let us know how it goes for you. :)

Hi herondancer

Thank you for your reply, it is greatly appreciated, and really saved my evening, as I both got practical help, but also felt protected and cared for emotionally, which I think I needed :)

I will look at the "foundation vegetables" and make a shopping list, as soon as I have finished cleaning my messy house, as it seems everything took the chance to jump out of it's proper place, and get dirty, while I was sick, so now I have to put it where it belongs

And yes I definitely have put reading the diet threads on top of my list, I just have to remind myself that I cant read them in one day, and take them in bits.

I haven't started the Eiriu Eolas program yet, though I have seen all videos, and have done a few breaths when I remembered, in the last year or so, (and even a single breath has a slight positive effect) the reason I haven't followed the videos yet, has partly to do with lack of money again (for the astrologically minded, recovering from the mechanical process of progressed Venus square natal Pluto 2 years ago, combined with other such astrological tensions) leading to having a very slow internet connection and not being able to see the videos without breaks.(tried once and got a bad back from getting stressed by interruptions due to the slow connection God I'm tired of hearing myself pleading poverty) And partly due to fear of having all the buried traumas surfacing=more mess to clear up, I know this is not too rational, just being honest.

Luckily I have now gotten the audio from a friend (thank you friend in case your lurking ;) ) So have decided to start tonight, encouraged by your kind encouragement.

I was just talking to a friend who has been sick for 3 years and have just finally gotten diagnosed with Polyneuropati which she said is a nerve infection. She has been mostly vegetarian for all her life, not for moral reasons, but just because she doesn't like meat much. (she eats fish and a little chicken) She said herself that she had thought that it probably wasn't too healthy to be a vegetarian.
I told her about Nora Gedgaudas as I don't discuss this work with her, and I don't know enough about diet to make suggestions myself.

Seems to me that the more I study the more I see how many (perhaps all) is affected by physical and/or psychological/mental problems from bad diet (and from all the lies that are poisoning society as well)

This forum is a treasure!

I will let you know how it goes, after following suggestions, Thank you again