"Life Without Bread"

[Gaby]

I was going to start another thread for this, but I have question related to the diet. I received some concerning news that I'm showing signs of kidney disease most likely related to taking medications, specifically Lithium and the amount of water I drink due to the dry mouth from the medication. The indicator that shows I'm having problems is the GFR (Glomerular Filtration Rate) that has been read twice recently at 56 where 60 and above is normal. Blood pressure was normal. Blood sugar level was good at around 85 and I had no protein in my urine. I've been taken off lithium and was given a packet of reading about the condition and what to do in terms of eating. The information says to limit sodium and potassium and to eat a smaller amount of protein than normal.

I've been on the diet for three weeks and have been supplementing both sodium and potassium, so now I'm not sure what to in terms of supplementation and the diet. I was kind in a shocked state when I was told about the issue and didn't ask about the diet I'm on. The only mention of the kidneys I remember in the reading was in reference to the only time that the Atkins/high meat diet has shown to cause problems with the kidneys is when someone has a pre-existing kidney condition. The reference was in 'Life witout Bread' or 'The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate living', but I loaned them out and not sure which one it is in.

I'm going to start digging and searching the internet for information on what I can do for the condition and hopefully find something in relation to the diet and kidney problems. If anyone knows a good place to start or can point anything out that is useful to read, it is greatly appreciated.

It is particularly the glycated protein that is problematic and damaging for the glomerular filtration, that is, the caramelized proteins. So restricting sugar is still a way to go, but with a compromised kidney function, you'll have to be very careful with your protein intake. It is not only mainstream news, but this issue is brought pretty much in all the low carb books so far. Jonny Bowden from Living Low Carb says the low carb diet is contraindicated in cases of compromised kidney function.

You'll have to moderate your protein intake and network with your doctor to find the recommended amount of protein per day. Then, you can adjust the diet around that, getting more fats from butter snacks, coconut oil, etc. I find it possible to restrict protein and carbs and get most of the energy intake from fats. You can eat green veggies or mushrooms as a means to eat more fat.

There are many centers in the US working with patients and offering ketosis as a line of treatment. Perhaps you can contact one and explain your situation?

If you have reduced glomerular filtration, stop taking potassium and sodium supplementation ASAP. It is dangerous. If the potassium doesn't get filtrated normally, it will accumulate to the point where your heart can stop. You'll have to monitor this closely with blood tests. Depending on how much your glomerular filtration is compromised, potassium can accumulate fast. Be careful with all the minerals.

 

[Gaby]

I want to give update. I reintroduced the carbs with carrots with same effect of constipation. This time I took probiotics. That helped to feel little better but this dropped my ketosis levels ( at least on the stick ), after reading that one should take foundation vegetables to avoid constipation, I ate salad, that seemed to reduced my constipation. Also found My ketosis is back. But I still didn't felt good when I ate carbs and felt much better with meat or egg. I was taking occasional probiotics and other gut healing vitamins. Increased the proteins more than my weight. Feel LOT better with increased meat.

Remember that the sticks to measure ketosis are pretty much useless, especially the longer you are on this diet. Read the previous posts earlier in this thread for more information and The Art of Living Low Carb as well.

You don't have to go for a 0 carb goal in this diet. Even in the "Fiber Menace" the author recommends getting some 10 grams of soluble fiber from your diet to feed the good bacteria in your gut.

 

[Gaby]

That "pulled" cramped muscle pain has gotten worse and popped up in my low back right where I've had bad probs in the past. The pain is more like a throb and is interfering with sleep since I can't find a comfortable position. All pains are on the left side. Been cutting the protein lower. Some cramping upon stretching in the morn is also happening. I may up the carbs a bit due to the sleep loss.

Had you tried taking 2 tablets of potassium 99mg with each meal for a few days? This usually helps and it is a generous dose that most people don't dare to take. But for a few days, it can make a lot of a difference and when you feel better you can go back to following label instructions or your previous dose.

 

[Gertrudes]

If anyone knows a good place to start or can point anything out that is useful to read, it is greatly appreciated.

Bear, on the link posted by dugdeep of the Ancestral Health Symposium there is a video by Lynda Frassetto here: _http://vimeo.com/27797665
I started seeing it and apparently she is a kidney doctor. I didn't have time to to see it until the end, so I can't really vouch for what she has to say, but overall I think that she talks about the relationship between a ketogenic diet an kidney problems.

 

[forge]

That faked duck fat from august was really evil! Bought a little bucket from a different manufacturer it had a proper duck-smell. Also bought 'Valdor' goose fat. There was no stomach-sickness reaction at all from this new duck fat for breakfast and pig fat for dinner. Dumping fake duck fat shipment tomorrow..(wow)

 

[herondancer]

Glad you found an alternative source. Make sure to let the first supplier know that you aren't purchasing their product any more, and why. They might shape up!

 

[LQB]

That "pulled" cramped muscle pain has gotten worse and popped up in my low back right where I've had bad probs in the past. The pain is more like a throb and is interfering with sleep since I can't find a comfortable position. All pains are on the left side. Been cutting the protein lower. Some cramping upon stretching in the morn is also happening. I may up the carbs a bit due to the sleep loss.

It may be more of a stop-gap measure, but have you tried massaging magnesium oil into the cramped muscles? This helped me when I was going through calf cramps when trying to sleep. I rubbed as much as the skin would absorb before going to bed, and even added some DSMO when things felt really twitchy. It didn't always stop them, but it took the intensity way down. As the keto-adaptation took hold, they went away completely, so hang in there. I'm sure it will improve.

I sure hope so - sleep has been poor for the last 5 nights or so due to the constant throb from the low back and shoulder blade area. Its more like a throb and not cramp or spasm. Some throbbing also began in the left front adjacent to the belly button. Last night my calfs threatened cramps. I've been adding more salt, carnitine, Mg (to the point of the runs), and potassium (citrus pectins, and others) - but no relief. Thanks for the tip, Herondancer, on the Mg oil - I have some and I'll try it tonight - like right now!

 

[anart]

I sure hope so - sleep has been poor for the last 5 nights or so due to the constant throb from the low back and shoulder blade area. Its more like a throb and not cramp or spasm. Some throbbing also began in the left front adjacent to the belly button. Last night my calfs threatened cramps. I've been adding more salt, carnitine, Mg (to the point of the runs), and potassium (citrus pectins, and others) - but no relief. Thanks for the tip, Herondancer, on the Mg oil - I have some and I'll try it tonight - like right now!

Are you sure you're not eating something that's inflaming you? Something hidden maybe, anything new? It sure sounds like inflammation.

 

[LQB]

That "pulled" cramped muscle pain has gotten worse and popped up in my low back right where I've had bad probs in the past. The pain is more like a throb and is interfering with sleep since I can't find a comfortable position. All pains are on the left side. Been cutting the protein lower. Some cramping upon stretching in the morn is also happening. I may up the carbs a bit due to the sleep loss.

Had you tried taking 2 tablets of potassium 99mg with each meal for a few days? This usually helps and it is a generous dose that most people don't dare to take. But for a few days, it can make a lot of a difference and when you feel better you can go back to following label instructions or your previous dose.

Yes, I've tried the potassium tabs, more Mg, carnitine, and much salt but no relief in days. I'll try some Mg oil tonight (as herondancer suggested). And strangely, I've only just started cramping in the legs the past two nights. Been very low carb (less than 20) for months now, so maybe I'm one of those very slow transitions.

 

[seek10]

I want to give update. I reintroduced the carbs with carrots with same effect of constipation. This time I took probiotics. That helped to feel little better but this dropped my ketosis levels ( at least on the stick ), after reading that one should take foundation vegetables to avoid constipation, I ate salad, that seemed to reduced my constipation. Also found My ketosis is back. But I still didn't felt good when I ate carbs and felt much better with meat or egg. I was taking occasional probiotics and other gut healing vitamins. Increased the proteins more than my weight. Feel LOT better with increased meat.

Remember that the sticks to measure ketosis are pretty much useless, especially the longer you are on this diet. Read the previous posts earlier in this thread for more information and The Art of Living Low Carb as well.

You don't have to go for a 0 carb goal in this diet. Even in the "Fiber Menace" the author recommends getting some 10 grams of soluble fiber from your diet to feed the good bacteria in your gut.

thank you psyche. I started with 0 carb, felt good with out carb. so stayed there for a while. but now I am taking around 15 to 20 grams.

 

[LQB]

I sure hope so - sleep has been poor for the last 5 nights or so due to the constant throb from the low back and shoulder blade area. Its more like a throb and not cramp or spasm. Some throbbing also began in the left front adjacent to the belly button. Last night my calfs threatened cramps. I've been adding more salt, carnitine, Mg (to the point of the runs), and potassium (citrus pectins, and others) - but no relief. Thanks for the tip, Herondancer, on the Mg oil - I have some and I'll try it tonight - like right now!

Are you sure you're not eating something that's inflaming you? Something hidden maybe, anything new? It sure sounds like inflammation.

Nothing new that I can think of. I have been sweating a lot outdoors due to the extreme heat here lately in Tenn. So I've been pounding down the salt as measured by the taste of my sweat. But the recent start of the leg cramps in bed suggest that I'm missing something here. I have been eating a little more almond butter, but nothing else has really changed.

 

[go2]

I sure hope so - sleep has been poor for the last 5 nights or so due to the constant throb from the low back and shoulder blade area. Its more like a throb and not cramp or spasm. Some throbbing also began in the left front adjacent to the belly button. Last night my calfs threatened cramps. I've been adding more salt, carnitine, Mg (to the point of the runs), and potassium (citrus pectins, and others) - but no relief. Thanks for the tip, Herondancer, on the Mg oil - I have some and I'll try it tonight - like right now!

Are you sure you're not eating something that's inflaming you? Something hidden maybe, anything new? It sure sounds like inflammation.

Nothing new that I can think of. I have been sweating a lot outdoors due to the extreme heat here lately in Tenn. So I've been pounding down the salt as measured by the taste of my sweat. But the recent start of the leg cramps in bed suggest that I'm missing something here. I have been eating a little more almond butter, but nothing else has really changed.

LQB--I just recalled having a few difficult days about a month ago when I was cutting some tree roots with an axe. It was heavy work with plenty of sweating and I craved salt. I ate so much salt I began to throb in the core of the body. I cut back on the salt and drank a lot more water and stabilized in a few days. I thought the problems might be due to excess salt intake. Could one of our more knowledgeable members address the question of how we adjust salt intake to compensate the loss from sweating? Does my experience sound as if it was related to the increase of salt intake? What happens if we eat too much salt?

I am implementing the High Percentage Fat diet over a period of months. It seems important that genetic profiles, age, food history, medical history etc. are considered in the rate at which we move toward keto-adaptation. There appears to be a wide range of individual accommodation
to the transition from glucose metabolism to ketone metabolism. Does someone know whether we can utilize both metabolic pathways simultaneously? Is the metabolic switch analog or digital?

 

[LQB]

I sure hope so - sleep has been poor for the last 5 nights or so due to the constant throb from the low back and shoulder blade area. Its more like a throb and not cramp or spasm. Some throbbing also began in the left front adjacent to the belly button. Last night my calfs threatened cramps. I've been adding more salt, carnitine, Mg (to the point of the runs), and potassium (citrus pectins, and others) - but no relief. Thanks for the tip, Herondancer, on the Mg oil - I have some and I'll try it tonight - like right now!

Are you sure you're not eating something that's inflaming you? Something hidden maybe, anything new? It sure sounds like inflammation.

Nothing new that I can think of. I have been sweating a lot outdoors due to the extreme heat here lately in Tenn. So I've been pounding down the salt as measured by the taste of my sweat. But the recent start of the leg cramps in bed suggest that I'm missing something here. I have been eating a little more almond butter, but nothing else has really changed.

LQB--I just recalled having a few difficult days about a month ago when I was cutting some tree roots with an axe. It was heavy work with plenty of sweating and I craved salt. I ate so much salt I began to throb in the core of the body. I cut back on the salt and drank a lot more water and stabilized in a few days. I thought the problems might be due to excess salt intake. Could one of our more knowledgeable members address the question of how we adjust salt intake to compensate the loss from sweating? Does my experience sound as if it was related to the increase of salt intake? What happens if we eat too much salt?

I am implementing the High Percentage Fat diet over a period of months. It seems important that genetic profiles, age, food history, medical history etc. are considered in the rate at which we move toward keto-adaptation. There appears to be a wide range of individual accommodation
to the transition from glucose metabolism to ketone metabolism. Does someone know whether we can utilize both metabolic pathways simultaneously? Is the metabolic switch analog or digital?

That could be go2 - I've never before had this combination of throbbing pains in my body - strangely only on the left side. I have been downing much of the Him pink salt based on the saltiness of my sweat, but no more than 2 tsp/day and usually 1 tsp/day. I think you are right about factors affecting keto-adaptation - very individual. After months, things seemed to be going fine - than all of a sudden these strange pains and legs ready to cramp this morn. So, unless some food is to blame, the prob seems to be mineral related.

Its just before bedtime here and just finished a Mg oil treatment with a splash of dmso ;)

 

[Rabelais]

Is it possible to fake duck fat? Mix it with deadly plastic fats that remain reasonably solid in the refrigerator? I guess i have to throw out the whole shipment and look for - sample first - something edible. :(

Duck fat can go rancid, if not properly canned or packaged, and should be refrigerated when not in use. You may have bought a bad batch that slipped past the company's quality control. If that is the case, it doesn't bode well for that source.

 

[Nienna]

That could be go2 - I've never before had this combination of throbbing pains in my body - strangely only on the left side. I have been downing much of the Him pink salt based on the saltiness of my sweat, but no more than 2 tsp/day and usually 1 tsp/day. I think you are right about factors affecting keto-adaptation - very individual. After months, things seemed to be going fine - than all of a sudden these strange pains and legs ready to cramp this morn. So, unless some food is to blame, the prob seems to be mineral related.

Its just before bedtime here and just finished a Mg oil treatment with a splash of dmso ;)

You probably are, but make sure that you are taking in enough water, too. Not drinking enough water really makes a difference in cramping. I have experienced a start of a cramp, drank more water and it went away, and this was in the gut, not the extremities. Could just be coincidence, don't know. So just thought I'd pass this a long.