"Life Without Bread"

[RedFox]

Thanks for sharing that Atreides, you have no idea how useful that was!

More to the point, the binding element of my mind was eroded from years of whatever it is I was doing to erode it, so I decided that I needed to church up a bit. It suddenly dawned on me that the way I looked at life, and food, and everything was completely retarded, and that I had never been able to change it because I was like a man trying to push a boulder out of the way without anything fixed to prop my feet against. But from my years of thinking I had come to the conclusion that things like the truth and facts were about as useful as balls on a priest when it comes to fighting erroneus thought patterns. What I needed was a powerful and convenient lie. Well, not a lie per se, but I needed an unverifiable and unquestionable belief in a higher power that could tell me to do what I already knew I should be doing.
[..]
Needless to say I was at a point where it was either just go and die, or do something about it, and what really cinched it was a basic desire to do something good and worthwhile. I looked back on my life and saw and felt that I was in every sense I could find a complete and utter failure at everything I had ever tried, at least that is how I felt, I wanted to at least do something right, and I felt that that something shouldn't just benefit me. Suddenly solving the problem of being obese and all self-hatey was more about finding a way out to help other people and not so much about helping myself.

That pretty much sums my life up, with the exception that for me instead of being fat I am underweight/tend to loose muscle mass/am weak and get fatigued just by being awake. No matter what I ate or how much of it (especially this last year or two) I've lost weight. Even if I gain it again it goes away... so last week I adopted the list (not The List, as you hadn't explained it yet - I was still missing the full set of data/schematics/framework)...now I'll be adopting The List.

Being able to problem solve just meant I hated myself even more because I could never see how I could solve the problems without 'my body' getting in the way....but that was 'faulty' problem solving....not factoring in that I couldn't see clearly enough/didn't have all the data needed to solve the problem.

Now I get it! Its that one bit of the jigsaw you know has to go in the middle but doesn't fit....you try forcing it or putting it in every way possible, get excited when it nearly fits...but half the stuff round it then doesn't.
Turns out no one told you, that there are two jigsaw puzzles and you have to separate them first! Holding onto the wrong pieces of the puzzle just messes up solving it.
Or to use the boulder analogy, using belief correctly (belief based on truth, even if you have to fake it or it feels like a 'lie' to start with) as a fulcrum can only work if it is based on truth....if the puzzle piece comes from the correct jigsaw set.

So I'm really please you pointed out which piece it is! Remind me to buy you a years supply of pork chops!

Now I've got a fulcrum, all the other parts of this level are actually starting to work. The boulders in my life are starting to move (finally!).

 

[stellar]

stellar, keep at it and you'll eventually kick the coffee habit. I was a huge coffee drinker (4 or 5 huge mugs a day) and I kicked it completely around five years ago and haven't looked back. If I can do it, anyone can.

Thank you for the encouraging words SeekinTruth :) I am drinking almost twice that much and even thoug it is weak as dishwater, I still find it worrying that it is the only drink I find refreshing next to water. I will keep at it though. ;)

 

[RedFox]

stellar, keep at it and you'll eventually kick the coffee habit. I was a huge coffee drinker (4 or 5 huge mugs a day) and I kicked it completely around five years ago and haven't looked back. If I can do it, anyone can.

Thank you for the encouraging words SeekinTruth :) I am drinking almost twice that much and even thoug it is weak as dishwater, I still find it worrying that it is the only drink I find refreshing next to water. I will keep at it though. ;)

Try water with a pinch or two of sea salt in, or pepermint tea. Both of these are really refreshing.

 

[Nienna]

If you don't have a problem with ghee or other high quality animal fat, you might occasionally be able to eat chicken and beef -- as long as they're organic, grass fed and finished -- and add fat on the side.

I don't have problem with fat at all but my grass fed beef is so lean except for part like cheek and breast (brisket). I still have a lot of beef in the freezer but I will process it with the pressure caner and keep as reserve.

Just in case there are any people, who like me, cannot eat pork, or lamb at this time because it causes inflammation, and can only eat beef - which will change eventually to being able to eat pork and lamb once my digestive tract is healed - I just wanted to tell you what I am doing.

I, also, am allergic to dairy and cannot even eat ghee. So I buy tallow from here. We made room in the fridge and keep the pail in there and the tallow has help up quite well. I cook with it, pour the drippings over the meat and eat some tallow "on the side", or on top of the meat. I make bone broth from beef marrow bones and put extra tallow in it.

I AM getting a lot of fat in my diet and have gone into ketosis. I eat very little meat and a lot of fat at each meal. I am not able to eat any veggies at this time, they all cause inflammation in me, and yet I am quite satisfied and full and have no cravings for anything - although I still do occasionally think of chocolate. :)

 

[stellar]

stellar, keep at it and you'll eventually kick the coffee habit. I was a huge coffee drinker (4 or 5 huge mugs a day) and I kicked it completely around five years ago and haven't looked back. If I can do it, anyone can.

Thank you for the encouraging words SeekinTruth :) I am drinking almost twice that much and even thoug it is weak as dishwater, I still find it worrying that it is the only drink I find refreshing next to water. I will keep at it though. ;)

Try water with a pinch or two of sea salt in, or pepermint tea. Both of these are really refreshing.

Peppermint tea gives me wind but I will certainly try the water with pinch of salt.

 

[Gertrudes]

It's about making your life not have anything to do with your food. About separating your emotions from your food, that's not their purpose, animals aren't here to die so you can feel better about yourself. You should feel better about yourself because you do better things, doing things is what will actually help you feel better about yourself, food is a cheap way of getting your emo-yayas off.
(...)
Saying you are bored with your food is also not on The List. Boredom isn't permitted because you can only be bored with your food if you are still thinking about food in the wrong way.

As he pointed out: food should not really be about pleasure - what is pleasurable in taking the life of another being? - but about spare functionality. The way you eat, what you eat or don't eat, will not make you pure or holy; but there is a rational, objective reason for optimal diet practice, and that is service to others. To be able to be of service with the minimum of suffering imposed on the planet and its living system in the process.

Very well put, thank you for that Atreides and Laura.

We really have to put food into a new perspective. And I would also put sex into the same bag.
Just by looking around one thing becomes blatantly obvious, food and sex are some of the, if not THE two most profitable industries. How do you make something profitable? You make the consumer believe that he needs it, or rather, that he needs a highly distorted and addictive version of it that is lucrative for the industry. You also work to make a population dumber in all senses, so that they can actually buy into what they are being sold because they lack cognitive health. And so we come to believe that food and sex are this huge part of life over which we should spend an enormous energy and a great amount of our days, over which an incredible number of books, songs, tv shows, and my imagination can't even begin to reach the amount of things over which money and energy is spend just in food and sex.

At this moment, I do believe that we need to spend a great amount of energy in food (and sex), not in the usual sense, but rather in dissecting and deprogramming ourselves from all the lies, all the vicious self destructive behaviors that have been imbedded in us by these two industries. It takes as much time, if not longer, to fix the damage that has been done both to our minds and bodies, as it took to damage them.

They managed to grab these two life sustaining needs, eat and reproduce, and distort them beyond belief. If our most basic needs have been twisted into such an aberration, it is only normal that everything else, all our thoughts and behaviors follow the same course. The core foundation determining what happens on the surface. At least this is how I see it.

Thank god there isn't an addictive component to breathing (that I' aware of, at least)! Otherwise, can you imagine, more time, more money, more numbing and dumbing down through breathing...

I was fat for a long time, I tried everything to not be fat. Being fat is hard. Wanted to die, almost died, didn't die.
(...)
At this point I was pretty much back where I had always been in regards to my body, feeling essentially weak and worthless, unloved and unliked, and more importantly not deserving of love and like.

Ironically, I have always felt that way for being small and skinny :) I felt like less of a person. Sometimes I still do.
Sadly, in this society we have an abundance of support for finding reasons to feel worthless due to our bodies. Or I should rather say, it is almost becoming abnormal not to have some sort of problem considering how brainwashed we are.

 

[SethianSeth]

Thank you so much, Atreides, for this challenge. I remember scribbling some thoughts down in a notebook earlier this year that were aiming in your direction, but what you have just written is so direct and profound. What you have written is actionable, and it lays all the illusions on the table. What is so amazing to me is the way our programs adapt and take new form as we change. Those damned fast growing weeds! Sure, making more informed food decisions based on good information and an increase in knowledge is the road, but really we could be eating in just about ANY way and still fall victim to patterns that keep us enslaved to self-gratification and narcissism if we don't see the map, see the true function of food in our lives, and how it might be used to serve others.

I started Political Ponerology today, and was really moved by his description of the naturalist who was attacked by a blood sucking creature, and without anger or revulsion, removed the creature and took to studying it carefully. This is what you have done here with the topic of food.

As you said, we need to really come from left field if we are going to throw ourselves off balance enough to see anything at all.

I will be reading this again! My deepest gratitude for taking the time to say these things...

 

[3DStudent]

Thank you Atreides for writing about the list. Very spiritual and humorous. It seems like a way of life really. I'm a little far from the list as my food is beef, lamb, tallow, olive oil, sardines, and green beans. Also been trying to rid of some seasonings ever so slowly.

On another note, does anyone find it difficult to measure out meat when it has a lot of fat and/or bones on it? I want to get the benefits of mTOR and not go over 25 grams of protein. The beef I have is said to be 95% lean, and sometimes I get some lamb shoulder pieces with a lot of fat and bone. I guess it's best to err on the side of caution and just eat more fat if you're hungry.

 

[Nicholas]

Thank you very much Atreides for those very thought provoking words! It helped me to better understand you and me.

It has been quite a struggle adapting to the new diet as we learn what is good and proper for our bodies. The deep rooted emotional attachments you mentioned are very revelatory for me.

I was fat for a long time, I tried everything to not be fat. Being fat is hard. Wanted to die, almost died, didn't die.
(...)
At this point I was pretty much back where I had always been in regards to my body, feeling essentially weak and worthless, unloved and unliked, and more importantly not deserving of love and like.

Ironically, I have always felt that way for being small and skinny :) I felt like less of a person. Sometimes I still do.
Sadly, in this society we have an abundance of support for finding reasons to feel worthless due to our bodies. Or I should rather say, it is almost becoming abnormal not to have some sort of problem considering how brainwashed we are.

Although I am of the skinny variety as well, the emotional struggle we are all facing is thankfully being rooted out due to this wonderful forum!

 

[Nicholas]

On another note, does anyone find it difficult to measure out meat when it has a lot of fat and/or bones on it? I want to get the benefits of mTOR and not go over 25 grams of protein. The beef I have is said to be 95% lean, and sometimes I get some lamb shoulder pieces with a lot of fat and bone. I guess it's best to err on the side of caution and just eat more fat if you're hungry.

If you go to the USDA Nutrient Data Laboratory online database, you will find that 100g of raw ground beef 95% lean has 21g of protein and only 5g of fat. Whereas 75% lean raw ground beef has 15.7g of protein and 25g of fat.

Hope that helps you.

 

[mamadrama]

Thanks for acquiescing to the feminine forces, Atreides and revealing your manifesto to the larger community. It is a welcome and humorous glimpse into the healing work of the shamanistic journey that will surely bring what you desire, helping others through your own struggles. Tom Cowan & Terrence McKenna say it well I think:

Beneath the ego and its mask of order and reason lies an untamed, wilder, lawless self as genuine as the masks of respectability we present to society. By embarrassing us, the Trickster teaches us deeper truths about ourselves. Not only does the Trickster confront us with the multiple nature of the universe, he shows us the multiple nature of ourselves, a truth the shaman learns through the tricks and deceptions of his initiating spirits. Indeed, trickery is part of the shaman’s craft, for he or she understands that often the mind has to be tricked for the body to heal. Some shamans relied so heavily on trickery and sleight-of-hand that Western observers misunderstood their motives and dismissed them as mere charlatans. They failed to appreciate the purpose of trickery and illusion as a means of “performing” in ordinary reality the transformations that were occurring on the psychic or spiritual plane.

The creative act is a letting down of the net of human imagination into the ocean of chaos on which we are suspended, and the attempt to bring out of it ideas.

It is the night sea journey, the lone fisherman on a tropical sea with his nets, and you let these nets down - sometimes, something tears through them that leaves them in shreds and you just row for shore, and put your head under your bed and pray.

At other times what slips through are the minutiae, the minnows of this ichthyological metaphor of idea chasing.
But, sometimes, you can actually bring home something that is food, food for the human community that we can sustain ourselves on and go forward

Of course this metaphor is not perfect, missing the important note that you don't catch pigs in the ocean, but it makes a good point overall osit.

 

[liffy]

Atriedes, that was a rather moving depiction of your way to your current way of eating, and how to move away from the emotional bond that most people have to this necessary activity.

Just one question though; does the body get sufficient omega-3 from eating only pork-fat? (I realize that this is grass-fed pork which improves the ratios, but still).

 

[Angchop]

Atriedes what you wrote is simply amazing. You put into words what I have been starting to feel yet I have had a hard time expressing it. For the first time in my life I do not feel obsessed with food. I have always yo-yo'd with my weight, always starting one fad diet after another only to be disappointed in the end. When I started the elimination diet, I sure felt better then, but I still constantly thought about and obsessed over food. Now that I am doing the low to no carb diet, I finally feel free of food. I have so much more energy to do everything else without the constant nagging voice, "what are you going to have for dinner? What if you get hungry today at work, do you have enough snacks? what about tomorrow, blah blah blah." It has truly been amazing by changing how I eat it has silenced the food addict in my head.

Thank you so much for writing this. I had an AHA moment after reading it! My family is supportive of my new way of eating, but I don't think they really understand it. It is so nice to have everyone here to share these feelings with.

 

[Lilou]

Thanks for sharing your story, Atreides. My own food list has progressively become shorter, and while it is not as short as your own, I find such a “List” makes life much easier. On the few occasions I have eaten things not on my list, my gut reminds me in short order, WHY it is NOT on the list!

I am not a “skinny type” either. I’ve always joked that inside me is a very fat person, just waiting to break out. Keeping my weight within a reasonable range has always been a struggle. My two most favorite foods when I was a chubby 10 year old were mashed potatoes & ice cream.

I endured the constant abuse of my older siblings, names such as “Thunder Thighs” were hurled at me and I am surprised I was able to develop any self-esteem and sense of worth. I started my own” battle of will” with food at the age of 11. When reaching for the ice cream, I’d stop, ask myself, “is it worth it, do you want to be fat?” NO! , so NO ice cream for you! My own personal battle started right there, and continues, but it is much easier with a List. I used to spend hours in the gym doing aerobics, more hours at home exercising, and even carried a handy dandy calorie counter in my purse, just to keep the “fat-man” in check.

Now I have to say, this high fat, basic meat diet is amazing. Without effort, my extra weight is dropping off. I even wondered if I’d get to a point of being too skinny and looking for ways to maintain weight. That would be a totally new experience! At any rate, I am willing to take that chance.

In addition to losing fat without effort, I am building back some muscle mass. If I spend just a few short minutes weight lifting with small dumb-bells, the results are rather amazing. But being the lazy creature that I am, this doesn’t happen often.

You’ve been to the edge and back, Atriedes and returned stronger and wiser. You’ve also shared insights that perhaps cannot be realized, unless you’ve been to the edge of death . What you’ve written gives a very unique perspective. Thank you, your words are very inspiring.

[quote author=Laura]
Even though Atriedes has made the above tongue-in-cheek remarks about The List, those of you who read his essay carefully - and more than once - may notice the extraordinary rationality of this attitude toward food.

As he pointed out: food should not really be about pleasure - what is pleasurable in taking the life of another being? - but about spare functionality. The way you eat, what you eat or don't eat, will not make you pure or holy; but there is a rational, objective reason for optimal diet practice, and that is service to others. To be able to be of service with the minimum of suffering imposed on the planet and its living system in the process. [/quote]

And this is the crux of the matter - an optimal diet which causes the least amount of suffering. This totally changes the intent – instead of optimal weight and health – the intention is to be as close to STO as we can be, in a STS world. And with that, optimal weight and health comes naturally, as a fringe benefit.

Onwards and upwards!

 

[Voyageur]

What you wrote Atreides was really great, which helps me immensely with all the picking and choosing and the why's of this, the battles within, old programs, ignorance et al when trying to make sense of myself in relationship to the food table of life.

The trials and errors are getting a little more streamlined, not so much deviation and much less mechanical/chemical wanting, more accepting and sated with the choices made, however, the work continues.