"Life Without Bread"

[MK Scarlett]

I can see a very notable reduction of back pain (especially the one at the low back, and cervical also.). They last from several years.

This is very interesting, because it is something I could experiment it too these last weeks (I also started the Paleo diet two months ago...). How lighter I feel! I do not know if there is a significant match but I remember the Lierre Keith's story in her book, "The Vegetarian Myth:

I developed a degenerative disease of the articulations which I shall drag till the end of my life.

I do not know why I cannot stand far these two occurrences: no meat=bones problems. But as bones problems do not come from meat only (I guess gluten and sugar have their words to say here), it is a thought, maybe more, or not.

Extracts from The Vegetarian Myth, translated on French Sott, hereafter if you do not know them.

http://fr.sott.net/articles/show/4387-Le-mythe-vegetarien-Nourriture-justice-et-developpement-durable

http://fr.sott.net/articles/show/4466-Le-mythe-vegetarien-Nourriture-justice-et-developpement-durable-2e-partie-

http://fr.sott.net/articles/show/4596-Le-mythe-vegetarien-Nourriture-justice-et-developpement-durable-3e-partie-

 

[Muxel]

I wonder if we could assemble a short, but impactful, list of compelling scientific papers on the topic that people could print out and give to their doctors? Doctors don't always research beyond their medical school training because they simply don't have the time. So maybe this would be a good way to start spreading info and waking up some doctors?

Probably wishful thinking, but might be worth a try. If 9 of them reject the ideas, but 1 of them changes his views, that's a start!

I don't agree with this. Firstly, the whole profession is a farce and needs to go. Secondly, doctors actually healing people (amazing!) through dietary advice would make their profession obsolete, which they clearly wouldn't want, the STS bastards. Thirdly, having to educate your doctors defeats the purpose of having them around in the first place. [Shamans, witches and the like, were the original "doctors" and should be so today. Leave the stethoscope-flaunting drug pushers to rot in their "sterile" offices.] Fourthly, I think converting doctors is a bad idea. People need to realize that the medical profession is malevolent, and one way is for them to react badly to drugs, but heal themselves through info from "alternative/underground" sources. You cannot expect doctors to reconcile a healing diet with poisonous drugs! Which is more profitable?

The most difficult issue for me was diarrhea alternating with constipation. This lasted for 2 months and just stopped recently. Betaine HCl and ox bile helped, as did suitable forms of fat intake. I found out after some experimentation that the most suitable form of fat that I can eat large amount is unrendered pork fat (natural fat that has not been rendered into lard), followed by butter. I could not eat lard, both warm and cold, in large amount and only used it for cooking vegetables.

(Bold emphases mine) Hi Bobo08 and thank you so much for sharing this! I have the exact same problem (sans constipation).

I literally force-feed myself lard, and I find it absolutely disgusting. It makes my entire mouth extremely oily/greasy, in a tasteless veggie-oil/plasticky-fat way. And I end up with diarrhea. But when I wash the lard off my cooked bacon with copious amounts of water before consuming, I can actually enjoy the bacon and I don't get diarrhea.

I think it's because lard is ~60% unsaturated fat, and what we're supposed to be having is more saturated fats. (Lard is so overrated on this forum IMO.) Perhaps we both have a natural aversion/intolerance to unsaturated fats. (BTW before I went Paleo, I would eat HUGE chunks of butter off my spoon, so it must've been the cream "impurity" that masked the unsaturated-fat-ness and allowed me to enjoy it. Plus, butter is only ~40% unsaturated fat.)

I wonder why the rendering process affects the digestibility for us...

 

[mcb]

...I literally force-feed myself lard, and I find it absolutely disgusting...

You just could discover that the disgust you feel is a message you are ignoring. I don't know what you are doing, but I think you should stop before you make yourself sick or worse.

 

[Muxel]

...I literally force-feed myself lard, and I find it absolutely disgusting...

You just could discover that the disgust you feel is a message you are ignoring. I don't know what you are doing, but I think you should stop before you make yourself sick or worse.

So can I just throw the lard away when making bacon, rather than force myself to eat it because it's healthy? (I did mention in an earlier post that I was having to dilute my lardy bacon with water.)

 

[Color]

The most difficult issue for me was diarrhea alternating with constipation. This lasted for 2 months and just stopped recently. Betaine HCl and ox bile helped, as did suitable forms of fat intake. I found out after some experimentation that the most suitable form of fat that I can eat large amount is unrendered pork fat (natural fat that has not been rendered into lard), followed by butter. I could not eat lard, both warm and cold, in large amount and only used it for cooking vegetables.

(Bold emphases mine) Hi Bobo08 and thank you so much for sharing this! I have the exact same problem (sans constipation).

I literally force-feed myself lard, and I find it absolutely disgusting. It makes my entire mouth extremely oily/greasy, in a tasteless veggie-oil/plasticky-fat way. And I end up with diarrhea. But when I wash the lard off my cooked bacon with copious amounts of water before consuming, I can actually enjoy the bacon and I don't get diarrhea.

I think it's because lard is ~60% unsaturated fat, and what we're supposed to be having is more saturated fats. (Lard is so overrated on this forum IMO.) Perhaps we both have a natural aversion/intolerance to unsaturated fats. (BTW before I went Paleo, I would eat HUGE chunks of butter off my spoon, so it must've been the cream "impurity" that masked the unsaturated-fat-ness and allowed me to enjoy it. Plus, butter is only ~40% unsaturated fat.)

I wonder why the rendering process affects the digestibility for us...

Hello Muxel,

the reason behind this could be connected to your liver or maybe just years of programming how fat is bad and missing the same from your diet. The reason why I'm bringing this up is cause something similar happened to me and my daughter when we first started this diet. My kid was even disgusted with a look of a fat pork chop on her plate and carefully ate only the meat and left all the fat on the plate. It went against all the 'healthy eating' preaching coming from her grandmother while growing up, plus she was not used to eating fat that way.

My problem was I felt a bit sick in my stomach after eating my fat pork chops the first day, it felt like I drank a cup of oil, anything but pleasant. But it got me thinking... I remembered I used to eat fatty pork while growing up, cause it was a primary energy source in the diet for my grandparents. Everything was also cooked on the lard. And I never had any problems with it while growing up. It was only after mom and I moved away that she got me on the 'healthy diet' and removed the lard completely from our menu. After that, I started to dislike it and were even feel a bit sick after eating it over at grandmother's house.

Also, for a long period of time, ever since my teenage years, I had terrible migraines and was taking a LOT of painkillers, which did a huge damage to my stomach. After I've only deepened the issue with over drinking coffee and alcohol. That also affected my liver. I believe those two were the main reasons behind my problems with consuming fat, physically speaking. So, I went again through this whole thread and focused on possible similar issues others might had and found out how taking a Milk Thistle helped some of them. So I went and got me a bottle of it from Natrol and happy to say - the very next meal I had no problems after eating the whole fatty pork chop. But on that very day, I also got us a probiotic premium, so maybe the combination of those two did the trick?

About the mental aspect of it, the programming... I put my daughter on Milk Thistle also and didn't pressure her to eat fat, I just told her to eat whatever she wants from the pork chop and just leave the rest. I was worried if she'll get over her issue with it, but I kept quiet. In just 3 days she completely switched! There was suddenly just a bone left on her plate after the meal ;) And on the first day she complained all the way through my cooking how the fat smells bad and makes her throw up! The same was with coconut oil, she made yucky faces while seeing me eating it with a spoon and now, when she sees me doing it she grabs a spoon for herself ;)

There was a good article on SOTT http://www.sott.net/articles/show/229352-Tips-Tricks-for-Starting-or-Restarting-Low-Carb-Pt-I explaining in simple terms why fat IS important, and you can find a second part of it here: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/saturated-fat/tips-tricks-for-starting-or-restarting-low-carb-pt-ii/ , with more valuable info on supplements one might need.

I hope this helps a bit.

Alice

 

[Gonzo]

I wonder if we could assemble a short, but impactful, list of compelling scientific papers on the topic that people could print out and give to their doctors? Doctors don't always research beyond their medical school training because they simply don't have the time. So maybe this would be a good way to start spreading info and waking up some doctors?

Probably wishful thinking, but might be worth a try. If 9 of them reject the ideas, but 1 of them changes his views, that's a start!

I don't agree with this. Firstly, the whole profession is a farce and needs to go. Secondly, doctors actually healing people (amazing!) through dietary advice would make their profession obsolete, which they clearly wouldn't want, the STS bastards. Thirdly, having to educate your doctors defeats the purpose of having them around in the first place. [Shamans, witches and the like, were the original "doctors" and should be so today. Leave the stethoscope-flaunting drug pushers to rot in their "sterile" offices.] Fourthly, I think converting doctors is a bad idea. People need to realize that the medical profession is malevolent, and one way is for them to react badly to drugs, but heal themselves through info from "alternative/underground" sources. You cannot expect doctors to reconcile a healing diet with poisonous drugs! Which is more profitable?

Hi Muxel,
I find it odd that you don't see any benefit in providing doctors more current and balanced knowledge. With all of their flaws, doctors have also provided many on this forum services they couldn't otherwise get. For example, once a person's system is too damaged from toxic foods and environment to heal itself and the person is at death's door, and the only solution is a course of antibiotics, one would be hard pressed to find a shaman to write the prescription. It's hard enough finding a shaman, let alone one trained in pharmacology.

Just because a system is broken doesn't necessarily mean it has no value or cannot be improved. To think otherwise would be as much an illusion than to blindly trust that system, OSIT. Doctors have a role to play in our society and perhaps we have a role to play in insuring they play theirs effectively.

It sounds to me like you are throwing the baby out with the bath water and aren't giving this enough careful consideration.

Gonzo

 

[MK Scarlett]

I wonder if we could assemble a short, but impactful, list of compelling scientific papers on the topic that people could print out and give to their doctors? Doctors don't always research beyond their medical school training because they simply don't have the time. So maybe this would be a good way to start spreading info and waking up some doctors?

Probably wishful thinking, but might be worth a try. If 9 of them reject the ideas, but 1 of them changes his views, that's a start!

I don't agree with this. Firstly, the whole profession is a farce and needs to go. Secondly, doctors actually healing people (amazing!) through dietary advice would make their profession obsolete, which they clearly wouldn't want, the STS bastards. Thirdly, having to educate your doctors defeats the purpose of having them around in the first place. [Shamans, witches and the like, were the original "doctors" and should be so today. Leave the stethoscope-flaunting drug pushers to rot in their "sterile" offices.] Fourthly, I think converting doctors is a bad idea. People need to realize that the medical profession is malevolent, and one way is for them to react badly to drugs, but heal themselves through info from "alternative/underground" sources. You cannot expect doctors to reconcile a healing diet with poisonous drugs! Which is more profitable?

Muxuel, I think you maybe forgot this sentence:

If 9 of them reject the ideas, but 1 of them changes his views, that's a start!

One for all, all for one...

Doctors have a role to play in our society and perhaps we have a role to play in insuring they play theirs effectively.

This is it!

 

[l_autre_d]

I agree with nicklebleu. All the meta-analysis, etc. for the last couple of decades has shown that cholesterol has a very important all around health protective effect. Consistently, these studies showed that those with the highest cholesterol levels had the lowest all-cause mortality rates and those with the lowest cholesterol had the highest all-cause mortality rates. So, it seems if you want to live longer, it's better to have high cholesterol. The only problem connected with cholesterol is if it becomes oxidized, and this is actually eliminated with this diet.

Triglycerides, as mentioned by nicklebleu are much more important to keep low and with this diet they tend to be quite low (and tend to improve with this diet compared to before the diet).

nicklebleu, SeekinTruth,

I agree that keeping triglycerides under control is important, but by itself is probably not enough. Specifically, I have not seen that triglycerides were influenced by a low carb diet. These are lab results from the past few years:

triglycerides (desired range <150 mg/dL)
65 december 2011
63 december 2010
75 december 2009


I worked on low carb during 2011. In 2010, I was trying detox per Rogers' 'Detoxify or Die' and that seems to have made a slight difference (or might be coincidence). Also possible is that the numbers are low enough already and a low carb diet would not show much change.

One thing I've taken from the different books is that the care and feeding of the human machine is not simple, ie - no magic pill or silver bullet for health. Not only are there multiple ways to approach nutrition, there are also synergistic relationships and individual differences to account for. I think it's an iterative process with step-wise refinement. As the machine wraps up a cleaning cycle, the next iteration may require different things to continue improving.

Laura's suggestion about scientific studies is worth trying and I'll start looking.

 

[mcb]

...I literally force-feed myself lard, and I find it absolutely disgusting...

You just could discover that the disgust you feel is a message you are ignoring. I don't know what you are doing, but I think you should stop before you make yourself sick or worse.

So can I just throw the lard away when making bacon, rather than force myself to eat it because it's healthy? (I did mention in an earlier post that I was having to dilute my lardy bacon with water.)

Every body is different, so I don't know exactly what to tell you, but I personally have not gone against my feelings in choosing what to eat. I walk a line somewhere what I believe would be most healthy and what I am willing to eat right now (and what is available). As I do that, I continue to learn and make adjustments. I make the best of things with what I know, while I seek to learn more. And my feelings about different foods change in the process.

I have noticed that other mammals seem to know what to eat from a combination of built-in senses (especially taste and smell), instinct, and what they are taught, and I think we work much the same way, although our senses may not be as acute (though that is an individual thing too). Bad teaching can interfere, but we at least have the ability to examine what we have been taught objectively, to root out deception, and to make changes.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

So can I just throw the lard away when making bacon, rather than force myself to eat it because it's healthy? (I did mention in an earlier post that I was having to dilute my lardy bacon with water.)

Do you mean eating the grease/lard that's generated by cooking the bacon right then and there? I take my bacon out of the skillet and put it on a paper towel to drain for a bit before I eat it. Then I save the grease from the skillet in a cup and use it for future cooking. Sometimes I use ghee instead, all depends.

 

[RedFox]

Like several of you, I have to eat a few carbs a day. Either half a sweet potato or a handful of greenbeans or, my new favorite snack that seems to be fine for me: cashews. Can't eat any other nuts, but cashews work well. If I stick to this, I have no problems eliminating every morning on schedule. It also helps to put plenty of butter on my morning pork pattie.

Yesterday I made pumpkin pie and mixed berry pie (mostly blackberries) with just gelatin and xylitol (used spices in the pumpkin). We poured it on a bed of ground cashews and butter like a graham cracker crust, refrigerated for a few hours, and it was PERFECT.

Just sat down to a bowl of mixed berry pie based on your description. Turned out really nice! What I like the most is that the base is full of fat, and a bowl of the pie is about 10g of carbs.
I fried the ground nuts in ghee for a while before letting the nuts/ghee set in the dish for added flavour in the base.

I had a go at making chocolate icecream last week with some success. 1 tin (400ml) of full fat coconut milk, two heaped table spoons of cocoa powder, and one heaped tablespoon of ghee. Bring ingredients to a simmer in a pan, stir well, and then let cool stirring occasionally (can be used as chocolate sauce). Once cool enough place in a container and freeze. Thaw for one hour before serving.
I had the icecream on merang, or on its own with xylitol sprinkled on it.

 

[Chrissy]

I had a go at making chocolate icecream last week with some success. 1 tin (400ml) of full fat coconut milk, two heaped table spoons of cocoa powder, and one heaped tablespoon of ghee. Bring ingredients to a simmer in a pan, stir well, and then let cool stirring occasionally (can be used as chocolate sauce). Once cool enough place in a container and freeze. Thaw for one hour before serving.
I had the icecream on merang, or on its own with xylitol sprinkled on it.

I received an icecream attachment for my mixer this holiday and I've been experimenting as well. I was following a recipe using coconut milk, coconut oil, an egg yolk, xylitol and 2 oz of 85% chocolate bar. I was reluctant to use the chocolate bar, which added sugar. I'm going to try the cocoa powder. Also, sprinkling the xylitol after would allow my family to adjust the sweetness level. (They tell me everything I make isn't sweet.)
Thanks for the tips RedFox!

 

[cassandra]

Thanks for all the tips. My challenge for this year is to try the diet on the whole family. My husband works full-time, so I do the cooking. He says he wants to eat healthily, but that all things should be done in moderation. He doesn't get that gluten is harmful in the smallest amounts, and says he would rather eat tasty rather than healthy food, so I'm thinking I'd better deliver. And no, he doesn't want to read any of the articles. And he always adds butter and cream to my sauces.
The trouble is, that a lot of the meals posted here seem a bit repetitive, so I don't hold out much hope that my family will follow suit.
They've been pretty disgusted a few times, if I'm being honest.
Also, if I'm following the diet, but also catering for dairy, carbs, bread, etc, it will cost a fortune (though I plan on working a bit more) and put a lot of strain on my relationship. I'm not going to force the issue with my family, but do my best, and hope that I will radiate such good health and cheer, that all will be astonished. But it could well end in tears. I'm frankly terrified.

 

[paralleloscope]

And he always adds butter and cream to my sauces.

That shouldn't be too big of a problem if you can tolerate it and it's quality stuff (as far as I'm aware). Casein and lactose is apperantly reduced the more fatty the butter/cream product is. But for your sake you should perhaps get off it for a while to test your actual tolerance.

The trouble is, that a lot of the meals posted here seem a bit repetitive, so I don't hold out much hope that my family will follow suit.
They've been pretty disgusted a few times, if I'm being honest.

Well perhaps the range of ingredients cannot match the volumes of toxic stuff on supermarket display but IMO this and 'What's for dinner' thread shows quite a bit of meat variety examples, potentially delicious too. I think you may have to experiment or perhaps ask some question about your cooking. Perhaps get a Paleo cookbook.

Best of luck to your efforts.

 

[rrraven]

Do you mean eating the grease/lard that's generated by cooking the bacon right then and there? I take my bacon out of the skillet and put it on a paper towel to drain for a bit before I eat it. Then I save the grease from the skillet in a cup and use it for future cooking. Sometimes I use ghee instead, all depends.

I used to do the paper towel thing too...now I use a plate for my bacon and lick it clean after and for the lard left in the pan I use one or two finely sliced mushrooms ,if I have some, to soak up as much as possible

those of you who don't ''like''the taste of lard...is your bacon free range or is it factory-farmed and grain fed?
you can really taste the difference ,trust me
:)