"Life Without Bread"

[beetlemaniac]

A question about cholesterol tests. Is it better to do the test on a fast (before breakfast) or after having a meal? I understand that dietary cholesterol has little effect on LDL levels so maybe the fasting before blood sampling is really not necessary.

As I mentioned on a swamp thread, my dad is worried about my high cholesterol, and I am going to take another test next week to see what I get. Here's the results of my first test:

Total: 15.9 mmol/L - 286.2 mg/dL
LDL: 13.1 - 235.8 mg/dL
HDL: 2.31 - 41.58 mg/dL
Trig: 1.12 - 20.16 mg/dL

The Total and LDL is pretty high... it seems the doctor was frantically trying to locate me because he's never seen levels this high.

So my test results came back:

Total: 11.9 mmol/L - 214.2 mg/dL
LDL: 8.9 - 160.2 mg/dL
HDL: 1.96 - 35.28 mg/dL
Trig: 2.2 - 39.6 mg/dL

Looks like LDL has gone down, although it still doesn't tell me much. I'll try to find out if those LDL particle tests are available around here.

By the way, I think I've been eating less than my body needs... I've been trying to save money by eating less, thinking that it would be enough. But I feel that I need to eat more, especially for breakfast, when my appetite is always best. After breakfast, my hunger signals are very weak to almost non-existent, so I sometimes unwittingly go to bed hungry.

Also, I had a strange thing happen to me last night, right after passing urine, where I suddenly felt really sick, my ears started ringing hard and my vision went really bright. It lasted for a few seconds and I was disoriented for a while after. It felt like I head was blasted by something. I don't really know how to explain it.

Anyway I had 2 extra pork patties and some eggs this morning and I'm feeling somewhat better. I think it may be undernutrition or something.

 

[beetlemaniac]

There should be some kind of test to measure LDL particle number in all countries, but know that your levels of triglycerides are an indirect indication of your levels of bad LDL as suggested by research. In your case, the triglycerides are ridiculously low.

I've found a lab which does these tests:

Apolipoprotein A 10 mL GEL (white / yellow)
Apolipoprotein B 10 mL GEL (white / yellow)
Lipoprotein Electrophoresis*
Alpha
Pre Beta
Beta 10 mL GEL (white / yellow)
Lp (a) (Lipoprotein a) 10 mL GEL (white / yellow).

I think I read somewhere there electrophoresis is OK. Which do you think would be the best option?

I don't know how old are you, but if your father is unable to understand the importance of the diet and cholesterol levels, and if it puts him to rest, you might have to do the coronary calcification test. But if you are very young, it doesn't make sense to do the test. Even if you are old enough, it is still more reasonable to see if the doctor advises it instead of doing it based on fear.

I'm 24. He doesn't seem to understand. He keeps looping back into the whole thing about how a cardiologist would go crazy if he saw my results. He's a doctor too, pediatric surgeon.

 

[Renaissance]

I heard on a podcast not too long ago that Celtic Sea salt is a bit of a scheme, much like the Himalayan salt. I tried doing some searching here and there today but didn't find anything of substance. I'll look a bit more and see if I can find the source. Basically what I remember being said was that Celtic Sea salt had pretty much turned into a marketing brand and that it doesn't necessarily have value. The type of salt that was recommended (and that I've been using too) is the brand Real Salt.

 

[Josi]

The type of salt that was recommended (and that I've been using too) is the brand Real Salt.

That is the brand we have been using too - taste great and is not very expensive.

 

[dugdeep]

I heard on a podcast not too long ago that Celtic Sea salt is a bit of a scheme, much like the Himalayan salt. I tried doing some searching here and there today but didn't find anything of substance. I'll look a bit more and see if I can find the source. Basically what I remember being said was that Celtic Sea salt had pretty much turned into a marketing brand and that it doesn't necessarily have value. The type of salt that was recommended (and that I've been using too) is the brand Real Salt.

I think there are actually a number of good salt brands out there. The important thing is that it's unrefined (still has all its mineral content) and doesn't contain contaminants. Celtic sea salt may not be the best one, but I think as long as you're getting a 'whole salt', that isn't contaminated with anything, you should be OK. I'm currently using a brand called La Palaudier (sp?). It's a sea salt that's grey in colour, indicating it hasn't been refined or bleached. AFAIK, it's a good one (of course, I thought that about the Himalayan stuff until someone sent me that article, so who knows?).

 

[RedFox]

Also, I had a strange thing happen to me last night, right after passing urine, where I suddenly felt really sick, my ears started ringing hard and my vision went really bright. It lasted for a few seconds and I was disoriented for a while after. It felt like I head was blasted by something. I don't really know how to explain it.

I've had this before, specifically after staying up all night to finish work for college. Most likely related to exhaustion (low adrenal levels)/stress, or perhaps lack of salt - all of these would cause low blood pressure.
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micturition_syncope

Micturition syncope or post-micturition syncope is the name given to the human phenomenon of fainting shortly after or during urination. It is a type of Vasovagal response

People often become pale, nauseated, sweaty and weak before they lose consciousness. Sometimes even defecating, coughing or severe vomiting may cause fainting in a similar way.

Epidemiology

Responsible for 2.4 to 8.4 percent of all cases of fainting in adults, it most commonly occurs in males. The events often occur at night or after awaking (this means that it occurs while standing immediately after being recumbent for some time).

Causes

When one strains to increase the flow of urine it stimulates the vagus nerve (usually more pronounced in elderly men with large prostates). The vagus nerve stimulus causes slowing down of the heart (bradycardia) and severe drop in blood pressure. The heart cannot perform as a pump effectively because insufficient blood comes to it. It is classically associated with a tumor known as a pheochromocytoma within the urinary bladder.

Anyway I had 2 extra pork patties and some eggs this morning and I'm feeling somewhat better. I think it may be undernutrition or something.

Did you read this article on SoTT? http://www.sott.net/articles/show/242308-What-s-With-The-Antagonism-About-Low-Carb-From-The-Paleo-Community-Lately-
The general conclusion (from the comments under the source article) is that the paleo diet goes wrong because of lack of fat....people just aren't eating enough! Secondary to that, there digestion isn't processing the fat (so its just like they aren't eating enough fat)....
I've also noticed personally that if I eat food that my body doesn't like, I might as well have eaten nothing at all because it seems that nothing gets absorbed when I do.
*edit to add* I also use to get the passing out/low blood pressure symptoms when I'd eaten something my body was reacting too...fwiw

*edit2* I hadn't noticed it until after writing this post, but I'm feeling the symptoms of the above this morning. Last night I ate a few spoon fulls of coconut milk. I woke up in the middle of the night feeling very 'off'/emotional and I've also lost weight (water mass?) this morning.
To add to the 'low blood pressure' thing...I don't think its just that. Smoking lowers my blood pressure quite considerably (I look at the veins on the back of my hands), but I don't feel 'off' or weak afterwards like I do with food allergies/immune responces.

 

[Gaby]

Anyway I had 2 extra pork patties and some eggs this morning and I'm feeling somewhat better. I think it may be undernutrition or something.

Did you read this article on SoTT? http://www.sott.net/articles/show/242308-What-s-With-The-Antagonism-About-Low-Carb-From-The-Paleo-Community-Lately-
The general conclusion (from the comments under the source article) is that the paleo diet goes wrong because of lack of fat....people just aren't eating enough! Secondary to that, there digestion isn't processing the fat (so its just like they aren't eating enough fat)....

I couldn't agree more, people are so afraid of fat that they are more than willing to let their health suffer by depriving themselves of it.

I eat bacon, eggs and 1/4 of a bar of butter for breakfast and never go hungry.

 

[truth seeker]

There have to be other ways to help others that don't affect you so detrimentally. To put yourself in harms way in order to prove a point or save someone, which in my opinion is essentially what it boils down to, says to me that you're doing yourself a disservice. Don't you think you're worth more than that? For what it's worth, I think you are.

Two things.

First: Thank you for thinking of me.

Second....How else do we grow as human beings, if not by living by example? Sure, sometimes it hurts, but it doesn't always.

Make sense?

...and, ultimately, it's Gimpy's choice. Free Will and all that. Be careful about walking that line between concern and 'determining the needs of another', truthseeker.

Yes, Gimpy, I do understand. :) And thanks for the reminder, Anart. :D

 

[Gaby]

I'm 24. He doesn't seem to understand. He keeps looping back into the whole thing about how a cardiologist would go crazy if he saw my results. He's a doctor too, pediatric surgeon.

And yet you have the lowest triglycerides that he probably saw in his whole life...

Considering the trouble you are having from your family, you'll have make sure you are understanding all the research that is available in order to be able to make decisions better for the sake of your health. In so doing, you will also be able to deal with the pressure from the mainstream people in a more proactive way. You can find a doctor who orders those kinds of tests and whom you can share cutting edge research.

 

[RandyBarnes]

Hello. This message is directed to the administrator, Laura. I would like to take you up on your offer regarding assistance obtaining the book, "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living." If you would be so kind as to reply via PM I'd be grateful.

Thank you,
Randy

 

[RandyBarnes]

In the last I indicated a preference to speak with an admin. in PM. Unfortunately, I am unclear at present as to how one sends and receives Private Messages in this forum. Could someone offer clarification on this issue for me?

Thank you,
Randy

 

[beetlemaniac]

Also, I had a strange thing happen to me last night, right after passing urine, where I suddenly felt really sick, my ears started ringing hard and my vision went really bright. It lasted for a few seconds and I was disoriented for a while after. It felt like I head was blasted by something. I don't really know how to explain it.

I've had this before, specifically after staying up all night to finish work for college. Most likely related to exhaustion (low adrenal levels)/stress, or perhaps lack of salt - all of these would cause low blood pressure.

Wow, you nailed it RedFox... I also get something similar which my father calls vertigo. It happens when I arise upon sitting in a squatting position for a while. I also have a hereditary low blood pressure.

Did you read this article on SoTT? http://www.sott.net/articles/show/242308-What-s-With-The-Antagonism-About-Low-Carb-From-The-Paleo-Community-Lately-
The general conclusion (from the comments under the source article) is that the paleo diet goes wrong because of lack of fat....people just aren't eating enough! Secondary to that, there digestion isn't processing the fat (so its just like they aren't eating enough fat)....

Yep I read the article. It's just that I've recently changed from eating bacon, eggs and beef to mostly pork. This is because the pork is of really good quality with nice white fat and reddish meat. The frustrating thing is... I can't eat it! The fat just makes me want to puke! Butter, eggs, bacon and beef I used to eat regularly are all perfectly fine. I ate a little bit of stewed pork for breakfast and I'm having some belching which relieves the nasty feelings in my tummy and intestines. Another thing, eating the minced belly meat instead of stewed whole pork doesn't have this effect. So I can still go for the minced meat instead of the whole meat, at least for now. Although I am not sure how much the fat content is for the minced meat, so I'll add butter to supplement. I've also ordered HCl and enzymes to help out with digestion.

I've also noticed personally that if I eat food that my body doesn't like, I might as well have eaten nothing at all because it seems that nothing gets absorbed when I do.
*edit to add* I also use to get the passing out/low blood pressure symptoms when I'd eaten something my body was reacting too...fwiw
*edit2* I hadn't noticed it until after writing this post, but I'm feeling the symptoms of the above this morning. Last night I ate a few spoon fulls of coconut milk. I woke up in the middle of the night feeling very 'off'/emotional and I've also lost weight (water mass?) this morning.
To add to the 'low blood pressure' thing...I don't think its just that. Smoking lowers my blood pressure quite considerably (I look at the veins on the back of my hands), but I don't feel 'off' or weak afterwards like I do with food allergies/immune responces.

Could it be that the pork is giving me this reaction? I don't really like that fact, since the pork is good quality meat. But I need to keep testing and see how it turns out. It might be that the difficulty in digesting has caused undernourishment, as you have also noted above. Maybe I just need to hold off on this for a while until the HCl comes. I did also have some coconut milk but my body usually handles that just fine.

Considering the trouble you are having from your family, you'll have make sure you are understanding all the research that is available in order to be able to make decisions better for the sake of your health. In so doing, you will also be able to deal with the pressure from the mainstream people in a more proactive way. You can find a doctor who orders those kinds of tests and whom you can share cutting edge research.

I have gone through a lot of the research and I am keeping up to date. But dealing with it and giving evidence about it is usually not enough when dealing with mainstream doctors. They brush it away and go back to their convictions about how the "absolute values" are so very high. At least that's the way I perceive it. Although I haven't dealt with any doctors other than my dad, and it'll be much harder to get other doctors convinced. They're all very authoritarian-minded I guess.

Another thing, could you please give me a hand with these tests, I am not sure which one I should choose. I'm not sure if I can consult a doctor as they may not understand what I need. Also, I get my tests done at a laboratory and not a hospital/health center. I need to choose one of these tests (or some) but I don't know which is best. You had mentioned apoprotein B tests earlier, as I understand it they measure the NUMBER of LDL particles in the blood (by measuring the ligand apoB that comes with each particle). I'm wondering if one of the tests below would give a better idea of what's going on.

1. Apolipoprotein A
2. Apolipoprotein B
3. Lipoprotein Electrophoresis
4. Lp (a) (Lipoprotein a)

edit: The main reason I have to do this is to calm my dad down. But through emotional contagion or something like that I get worked up at the same time... it's a little crazy-making really.

Hello. This message is directed to the administrator, Laura. I would like to take you up on your offer regarding assistance obtaining the book, "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living." If you would be so kind as to reply via PM I'd be grateful.

Hi there Randy, I think if you read through the whole thread you'll find a link that leads to the download. It's recommended to go through the thread before starting any diet changes too, you will really learn from other's experiences.

edit: I found this quote about LDL which I've never heard before from the About page on low-carb, it's an interestingly simple explanation for the high (heavy) LDLs in the blood:

The good news for those of us following a low-carb way of eating is that studies of diet and cholesterol particle size have consistently shown that low-carb diets produce larger-sized cholesterol particles. However, a larger-sized particle weighs more than a smaller one. When LDL does go up on a low-carb diet, it may be due to the larger particles, since weight is what's being measured. (A total cholesterol of 200, for example, means 200 mg per deciliter.)

On the other hand, high-carb diets seem to produce a greater percentage of smaller cholesterol particles in some people. So the total LDL goes down (particles are smaller, so the total is lighter.) While the reading may be low, it can be deceiving as risk goes up in those cases.

A good way to sort out risk? LDL particle size seems to be strongly correlated with triglyceride level (high triglycerides go with small particle size and vice versa). So if your triglycerides are low, your LDL particles are probably larger.

 

[SeekinTruth]

In the last I indicated a preference to speak with an admin. in PM. Unfortunately, I am unclear at present as to how one sends and receives Private Messages in this forum. Could someone offer clarification on this issue for me?

Thank you,
Randy

Hi, Randy. Welcome to the forum. It's customary to post an intro in the Newbies section telling us how you found the forum and how much of the material you've read, etc. You don't have to include personal info, and you can check to see how others have done it if you want.

About PM's, you need to have 50 posts, I think to be able to send, but I'm not sure about receiving. In any case an Admin / Mod can probably email you if not PM.

 

[RandyBarnes]

Hi, Beetlemaniac. You are right, there was indeed a link to the material in question. Unfortunately, it seems it is no longer active. Thanks for the reply.

Randy

SeekinTruth:

Hello. I will take that under advisement. Point of fact, it was in searching for the aforementioned book that I came upon the forum and relevant threads. Thank you for the info regarding PMs.

Randy

 

[Ollie]

...
Yep I read the article. It's just that I've recently changed from eating bacon, eggs and beef to mostly pork. This is because the pork is of really good quality with nice white fat and reddish meat. The frustrating thing is... I can't eat it! The fat just makes me want to puke! Butter, eggs, bacon and beef I used to eat regularly are all perfectly fine. I ate a little bit of stewed pork for breakfast and I'm having some belching which relieves the nasty feelings in my tummy and intestines. Another thing, eating the minced belly meat instead of stewed whole pork doesn't have this effect. So I can still go for the minced meat instead of the whole meat, at least for now. Although I am not sure how much the fat content is for the minced meat, so I'll add butter to supplement. I've also ordered HCl and enzymes to help out with digestion.
...
Could it be that the pork is giving me this reaction? I don't really like that fact, since the pork is good quality meat. But I need to keep testing and see how it turns out. It might be that the difficulty in digesting has caused undernourishment, as you have also noted above. Maybe I just need to hold off on this for a while until the HCl comes. I did also have some coconut milk but my body usually handles that just fine.
...

Although regularly taking Betain HCl, I experienced a similar reaction to pork to you, mince, ham, and bacon were OK, nothing else. I solved the problem by 'pickling' the pork overnight in a mixture of 910ml filtered water, 1/4C cider vinegar, and 1/3C of granulated Atlantic Sea Salt (unprocessed). You may also like to get some back or shoulder fat from your butcher (left over after making sausages), mince this and add to your minced pork, or alternatively use lard - I use 20% of fat by weight.

This may help, or not.