"Life Without Bread"

[Breton]

Continuing the discussion about the size of meals, I have settled on a fatty breakfast that is not very large, 4-5 bacon and an egg.

Then I have a very light lunch of mainly lettuce and cucumbers. I buy that at the cafe at the workplace when someone else is having lunch, to be social and also I am accustomed to eating something in late morning or midday, although I am not particularly hungry. I seem to amuse the cashiers as they do not know anyone else who simply purchases a side salad for 1.50 euros!

Then 15-16:00 comes the natural feeling of hunger and I have a meal that is protein and fat based, which I bring to work and heat up.

I may or may not eat in the evening: I may like to snack on nuts occasionally (100g or less) maybe occasionally sardines, or cook 100-200g of peas or green beans with ghee.

I had been having too much protein in the beginning of the diet and I watched as my weight dropped then rose again, but now with the above routine, and protein no more than 60-80g per day, my weight dropped back to what it was last summer when I first went into ketosis.

Diarrhea has been prevalent, but I have now been trying enzymes and HCL or a few weeks to see if I have trouble digesting all the fat and have noticed recently that diarrhea happens much less.

 

[dugdeep]

I eat three meals a day and they're all roughly the same size, although the protein:fat ratio seems to change slightly. I do low protein, high fat for breakfast whereas lunch and dinner tend to be slightly higher in protein (although still high in fat). I've tried doing smaller lunches and dinners and just found it to be unsatisfying and found myself wanting a snack. My appetite has remained fairly consistent while I've been zero carb; I do get hungry for meals, even though waiting longer than normal between meals, or even skipping meals, isn't that big a deal (very different from when I was a sugar burner, when skipping a meal would bring stress).

FWIW :)

 

[Ollie]

I eat three meals a day and they're all roughly the same size, although the protein:fat ratio seems to change slightly. I do low protein, high fat for breakfast whereas lunch and dinner tend to be slightly higher in protein (although still high in fat). ...

FWIW :)

That is my programme too, breakfast sausage patties with added fat in them, and using the leftover fat in the pan from breakfast to steam-fry some green vegetables for lunch (as a consequence it tends to 'look' more). Tea-time, for me, is the lowest level of protein.

One of the reasons for sticking to three meals is the need to take supplements three times a day with meals. :)

 

[Laura]

The "King, Prince, Pauper" thing helped me to transition.

My problem had been that I never ate anything until after noon. I was up early, but couldn't eat. I only drank coffee with cream, no sugar. Well, obviously, that was a sign of adrenal fatigue - or contributed to it - so getting myself able to eat in the morning took awhile and a period of low dose hydrocortisone at those times of day when the adrenals would usually be "dumping" and making myself eat according to the "King, Prince, Pauper" rule. After awhile, I started sleeping better and waking up hungry.

But then, after another period, my body started feeling "nourished" and I was hungry less and less and cravings for stuff stopped entirely. I just knew when I needed fuel.

So, I eat well in the morning - after the night's "fast" and usually don't get hungry again until about 4 pm. I don't want to eat much later than that because it interferes with sleep, but occasionally, I will eat some little something after that if it is not too late. So, like many of you, I only eat twice a day, usually.

So, again, the "King, Prince, Pauper" thing is a good model for transitioning and especially for straightening out a messed up HPA axis. It's an easy way for newbies to remember it.

 

[mcb]

The problem with eating according to your appetite is the assumption that your appetite is reflecting your true needs...

That is something you can't assume. If your appetite is broken, you need to find a way to fix it. Fortunately there are a lot of things to try, and if low-carb approaches don't work then there are moderate-carb approaches that may work. If nothing seems to work, that is a major problem.

If your appetite is working, which for many people means a healthy diet, then you should be able to eat according to appetite and not gain or lose weight in the long term. Short-term variations of a few pounds are normal. Some people are able to do this without controlling their diets, but judging from the estimates in The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living, most are not.

If you are eating according to a particular pattern out of habit, then realizing that other patterns can also work well can help you to move toward something that better suits your body. Appetite isn't the only influence; your beliefs about what and when you should eat can play a major role.

 

[mcb]

I should mention that I tend to eat diminishing amounts of food myself through the day, with breakfast the largest meal, a sizable (for me) lunch, and a small (or no) dinner, especially if I am able to delay lunch until mid or late afternoon. This pattern reflects my energy needs, as someone who works at a desk and exercises early in the day, before work. It also reflects a belief I acquired somewhere back in the years of my life when I was involved in organized religion ("fringe," not "mainstream"), and I do have to be careful not to allow that belief to drive my actions.

If I am hungry in the evening, as a rule I eat unless I intentionally choose to fast until the next day. Not eating when hungry on a regular, scheduled basis can keep the body in an energy conservation mode that has its own set of issues.

I should also mention that the word "appetite" involve more than one mechanism. Food intake appears to be governed by both homeostatic regulation (nutrient balance mechanisms) and hedonic regulation (reward-driven), and appetite can represent both. Choosing (for you) non-inflammatory foods supports homeostatic regulation. Choosing (for you) non-addicting foods supports hedonic regulation. As usual, these are individualized responses. For me, eating grains appears to upset homeostatic regulation while I suspect that eating nuts upsets hedonic regulation.

I know from personal experience that appetite can be influenced by beliefs about food and eating schedules, and by long-term emotional state. An emotional shift enabled me to starve off 75 pounds in 9 months without too much difficulty, 9 years ago. Unfortunately, keeping it off proved impossible beyond a couple of years. I suspect that beliefs, emotions, and other factors may affect both homeostatic and hedonic regulation.

I am rushing a bit because we are heading out of town for a theater performance and overnight stay. I apologize if I am not being clear, or if I don't respond promptly.

 

[mcb]

I have to go now, but I also wanted to mention that I may have finally solved a puzzle that could be affecting others here. I have had problems with excess fermentation, gas, and gas pain for as long as I can remember and my paleo diet has not helped. The one thing that did make a difference was eliminating virtually all carbs, although the cure proved worse than the disease.

I will not be sure without further testing (that I will be starting very shortly), but the pattern appears to match the condition of FODMAP intolerance. I don't have time to go into details, but here is a good article on the subject (it explains what FODMAP stands for and points to a list of foods). To make a long story short, whenever I have tried altering my diet to control fermentation, I have unknowingly replaced one set of FODMAP carbs with another. Only when I eliminated FODMAP carbs altogether did the fermentation stop. See the article for more:

_http://chriskresser.com/fodmaps-could-common-foods-be-harming-your-digestive-health

 

[truth seeker]

I have to go now, but I also wanted to mention that I may have finally solved a puzzle that could be affecting others here. I have had problems with excess fermentation, gas, and gas pain for as long as I can remember and my paleo diet has not helped. The one thing that did make a difference was eliminating virtually all carbs, although the cure proved worse than the disease.

I will not be sure without further testing (that I will be starting very shortly), but the pattern appears to match the condition of FODMAP intolerance. I don't have time to go into details, but here is a good article on the subject (it explains what FODMAP stands for and points to a list of foods). To make a long story short, whenever I have tried altering my diet to control fermentation, I have unknowingly replaced one set of FODMAP carbs with another. Only when I eliminated FODMAP carbs altogether did the fermentation stop. See the article for more:

_http://chriskresser.com/fodmaps-could-common-foods-be-harming-your-digestive-health

Just came across that the other day and thought it was interesting. For the longest time I wasn't able to tolerate any carb. When I finally got rid of all of them, the lingering discomfort definitely improved. What has finally seemed to have completely knocked out any persistent inflammation was niacin.

 

[cholas]

so getting myself able to eat in the morning took awhile and a period of low dose hydrocortisone at those times of day when the adrenals would usually be "dumping" and making myself eat according to the "King, Prince, Pauper" rule. After awhile, I started sleeping better and waking up hungry.

I haven't looked much into hydrocortisone but both my wife and I have had a really, really hard time lately eating anything in the morning. We practically force-feed ourselves a high-fat breakfast(bacon, egg) but not until a couple of hours after waking and we usually don't feel very good afterwards.

This is fairly new, coinciding with the change of weather(winter to summer heat) which we thought might be the issue. But perhaps it is adrenal fatigue? Our daughter maintains about the same amount of food in the morn as before and actually wakes up hungry whereas we do not.

We both have stopped drinking coffee within the last 8 months. Maybe there's a relationship/adjustment period?

Our biggest meal of the day is now late afternoon, when we are actually hungry.

 

[Oxajil]

I got my pressure cooker last week and tried it out for the first time today. I made a grassfed beef soup and had it on for about 50 min., it was really delicious and energizing! I could've put it on much longer, which I will next time, as the meat didn't break apart as much as it should. But it's a good first experience. :D Soon I will also be able to make a bone broth, which I've been wanting to have for some time now. For those wondering, I got the Kuhn Rikon Duromatic Inox pressure cooker, which is known to be one of the best around. For the Dutchies on the forum, this is where I got it from: _https://www.brinkmanskookwinkel.nl/snelkookpan-duromatic-kuhn-rikon

I think what helps me with keeping my energy levels high is to eat more diverse food. As long as I have different kinds of foods, during atleast a month's time; beef, pork, offal, veal, fish, I feel pretty good. But if I stick on one particular food, I feel like I'm not getting enough of something. So now that I finally have this pressure cooker, I can hopefully experiment more and see how it goes further with my energy levels. I'm also going to cut onions and garlic out of my diet for a while, reintroduce them, and see what happens. Fwiw.

 

[ScottD]

I try to stick to the King, Prince, Pauper method for eating and try not to think of my meals as breakfast lunch and dinner as that seems to define how or what I ate. I am a very skinny person and highly active with strength training and I can eat a tremendous amount of food and not fluctuate weight at all (in fact I lose more often than gain). I often wonder if I am just not replenishing my fat stores enough when I see others that are bigger than me and can eat much less.

It was easy for me to gradually increase my morning intake and I try to eat within 30 minutes of waking by putting together my meals on Sundays. It really helped for me to be able to eat bigger in the mornings before work. I also try to stick with a schedule in eating so my body knows when more fuel is coming in. However even with a massive uptake of fats per meal I still get hungry an hour or two after my evening meal. This may just be conditioning on my behalf when I would always eat ice cream for desert but that's been nearly a year since I've done that.

 

[aragorn]

In case someone has not noticed, Gedgaudas has her own "radio show" in the form of podcasts. In the episodes (48 of them!) she covers many topics from the PBPM book, with occasional guest experts. I really enjoy listening to these, it's good repetition of the information from the book - and there's some "new" information, too. Oh, and it's totally free.

I guess she's stopped producing new episodes, since the latest show is from 2011.

Here's the link (you'll need iTunes for listening): _http://itunes.apple.com/podcast/primal-body-primal-mind-radio/id385416862

 

[mcb]

In case someone has not noticed, Gedgaudas has her own "radio show" in the form of podcasts. In the episodes (48 of them!) she covers many topics from the PBPM book, with occasional guest experts. I really enjoy listening to these, it's good repetition of the information from the book - and there's some "new" information, too. Oh, and it's totally free...

Yes. Lots of interesting material, and you can learn about neurofeedback, which is where her clinical experience comes from. I have heard many but still have more to go.

 

[beetlemaniac]

I have to go now, but I also wanted to mention that I may have finally solved a puzzle that could be affecting others here. I have had problems with excess fermentation, gas, and gas pain for as long as I can remember and my paleo diet has not helped. The one thing that did make a difference was eliminating virtually all carbs, although the cure proved worse than the disease.

I will not be sure without further testing (that I will be starting very shortly), but the pattern appears to match the condition of FODMAP intolerance. I don't have time to go into details, but here is a good article on the subject (it explains what FODMAP stands for and points to a list of foods). To make a long story short, whenever I have tried altering my diet to control fermentation, I have unknowingly replaced one set of FODMAP carbs with another. Only when I eliminated FODMAP carbs altogether did the fermentation stop. See the article for more:

_http://chriskresser.com/fodmaps-could-common-foods-be-harming-your-digestive-health

Just came across that the other day and thought it was interesting. For the longest time I wasn't able to tolerate any carb. When I finally got rid of all of them, the lingering discomfort definitely improved. What has finally seemed to have completely knocked out any persistent inflammation was niacin.

The idea of FODMAPs is interesting, but from my experience, the foods listed in the PDF file linked in the article don't really help one who is suffering from bloating and related problems. I think any type of carb in excess (depends on each person) can cause intestinal fermentation.

 

[dugdeep]

Last night I listened to Chris Kresser's Real Food Summit presentation and it was well worth it. The subject was fish consumption and he dropped a few mind blowing truth bombs that I think have wide repercussions for the diet. His major premise is that the benefits of eating fish far outweigh the dangers. I have been avoiding fish for the last couple of years because of the widely publicized dangers, so this talk was a real eye-opener for me.

The major revelation for me was his point that scientists have done the public at large a huge disservice by focusing only on the mercury content of fish. He says that, since fish are high in selenium, and selenium binds preferentially to mercury, and when mercury and selenium are bound they are not absorbed through the digestive tract, mercury isn't nearly the problem in fish that it's made out to be. He said there's something called the "selenium health benefit ratio" that looks at the amount of selenium in a given fish and whether it's a potential source of unbound mercury.

He claims the only time mercury is an issue is when the selenium content is less than the potential mercury content. This situation plays out in tarpon, marlin, swordfish and shark, and not much else. These are fish that aren't commonly eaten anyway. Other fish like salmon, mackeral, herring have selenium that exceeds mercury content and are therefore safe. Fish he didn't mention, but that were implied to be safe even though they have always been thought to be quite dangerous are line-caught tuna and halibut.

I'm going to look more into this selenium health benefit ratio before I go crazy on the fish, but overall I think this is really good news :)

BTW, it appears the talk is still available here - http://realfoodsummit.com/
It also appears Zoe Harcombe's talk is still available, which is also well worth listening to. It's mostly info we know, but she's really good at digging, analyzing studies and dismantling propaganda. She's a good speaker, too, so worth a listen.

EDIT: If you'd rather read than listen, it appears Chris summarized all his points in an article prior to the summit. You can find it here - http://chriskresser.com/is-eating-fish-safe-a-lot-safer-than-not-eating-fish