"Life Without Bread"

Mariama said:
This is what they eat: meat, fish and eggs, butter (he doesn't like lard at all), peas, cucumbers, apples and oranges and home-made chocolate. The chocolate is more fat than chocolate. It is the only way I can get him to eat him some fats (besides the sausages that he likes eating). The fats are: butter, cocoa butter and coconut butter, with a splash of cream and a bit of xylitol.

Mariama, this is what stood out for me the most. Since he has cut out carbs, he needs to replace glucose with another fuel, that being fats. From what you said he seems to be having trouble eating fats, when that should be one, if not his main food source, without is he can't really transition into fat burning mode and will keep craving glucose. Because he's not getting as much of it his body will, in a way, starve and feel tired.

Is he able to eat lard, of beef dripping, if food is cooked in it? My partner initially found it very distasteful to have lard instead of olive oil, which he had used all his life for cooking, but now adds it to everything, including his veggies.

If this is of any help, it took me well over two months to transition to fat burning mode, during which I felt exhausted and foggy. When reading my book I had to read the same paragraph over and over because I just couldn't retain what I read. For me the transition was really hard, and from what I gathered from this thread it was also for many others. But you do want to speed up that transition and make it the least uncomfortable you can for your son. I don't know if there are any underlying issues, but right now and with the given data what I wrote above seems to me to be a major factor.
 
my grandma likes brains, she asked me to buy one at the butcher and then he told me about the illegality.
I personally never ate brain because I find it kind of strange and I can't bring myself to do it.
who knows maybe I like it ? but if it tastes like liver or heart I sure won't like it.

I get grass-fed ground heart and it tastes very neutral to me, unlike liver or a the ground mix with ground kidney added that I also buy. Kidney does not taste good to me, but the heart is very mild, I like it. just thought I'd mention this to you.


Hi Mariama,

If he's under six-feet, I do not think that he is technically under-weight by the American Body Mass Index. The weight-loss could be normal or not, its hard to tell. normal in the sense that he is just shedding extra fat.

But the other idea is he is not getting enough calories because he is not eating enough or digestion/metabolism problems - although those supplements should help that out I thought.

I am assuming he has the genetic mutation(s) that makes fat digestion/metabolism harder. that makes me wonder if you went through any similar symptoms when adjusting and what supplements you take.

My best guess is that his body will adjust to the diet but there seems to be a lot of factors working against him. the apparent factors are the fat digestion and the stomach acidity... If he looses more weight or other illness signs then I suppose the solution he should get more carbohydrates.

I don't have any ideas about the fatigue.
 
Hi Mariama, fwiw, I've always been the skinny (slightly underweight) type, and I can tell you that the transition was quite difficult for me too. I had fatigue, loss of muscle strength, weight loss, dizziness, to name a few symptoms. The worst symptoms were gone after ca two months, but it has taken me a whole year to overcome the problems and reach my optimal weight (osit). So, for some of us it can be a very tough ride.

The three things that have helped me most during this have been regular anaerobic training (weight lifting, rowing machine, kettlebells!!!), being strict about not eating too much protein and (ice)cold showers. I noticed that aerobic exercising like running made me more fatigued, when weight lifting had the opposite effect - and now I have more muscle strength than ever in my life. This is something that Gedgaudas writes about in her book, too.

As Gertrudes pointed out, getting enough healthy fats are essential, and I don't either think chocolate is the best way to go. Maybe some weight lifting will improve his appetite for fats? I don't know how old your son is, but is he by any chance drinking coffee? I say this because for many "paleo people" this seems to be their Achilles heel that keeps them as sugar burners.

Good luck, keep us posted of how it goes. :)
 
Mariama said:
I have a question about my son's health (16) with regard to the diet. <snip>

This is what they eat: meat, fish and eggs, butter (he doesn't like lard at all), peas, cucumbers, apples and oranges and home-made chocolate. The chocolate is more fat than chocolate. It is the only way I can get him to eat him some fats (besides the sausages that he likes eating). The fats are: butter, cocoa butter and coconut butter, with a splash of cream and a bit of xylitol.
They have also made their own desserts, cake without wheat, so just the eggs, butter and xylitol. Tasted quite good actually!

Butter is out, or so I read in Mrs. Tigersoap's article on French SOTT?

They have started counting their carbohydrates themselves, asking me whether they can eat an extra apple, so that is good. They have been under 50 grammes a day, since end of April this year.

Is there anything I should or shouldn't do?

Umm... have you read this ENTIRE thread???? BEFORE starting to experiment on your kids???? Have you kept up with it daily?????

Under 50 grams a day may be way too low for kids. Chocolate mousse is a good way to get fats into them. Make it with xylitol.

How about getting this cookbook: http://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Comfort-Foods-Homestyle-Gluten-Free/dp/1936608936/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1342955058&sr=1-1&keywords=paleo+comfort+foods
 
Laura said:
Mariama said:
I have a question about my son's health (16) with regard to the diet. <snip>

This is what they eat: meat, fish and eggs, butter (he doesn't like lard at all), peas, cucumbers, apples and oranges and home-made chocolate. The chocolate is more fat than chocolate. It is the only way I can get him to eat him some fats (besides the sausages that he likes eating). The fats are: butter, cocoa butter and coconut butter, with a splash of cream and a bit of xylitol.
They have also made their own desserts, cake without wheat, so just the eggs, butter and xylitol. Tasted quite good actually!

Butter is out, or so I read in Mrs. Tigersoap's article on French SOTT?

They have started counting their carbohydrates themselves, asking me whether they can eat an extra apple, so that is good. They have been under 50 grammes a day, since end of April this year.

Is there anything I should or shouldn't do?

Umm... have you read this ENTIRE thread???? BEFORE starting to experiment on your kids???? Have you kept up with it daily?????

Under 50 grams a day may be way too low for kids. Chocolate mousse is a good way to get fats into them. Make it with xylitol.

How about getting this cookbook: http://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Comfort-Foods-Homestyle-Gluten-Free/dp/1936608936/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1342955058&sr=1-1&keywords=paleo+comfort+foods

Sorry, I was under the impression that your son was older - I now noticed that he is 16. Which means he is still growing, and this reminded me of this from the book PBPM:

Important note: Pregnant women, children, and teens, however, should not have their protein intake overly restricted. Carbohydrates (sugar and starch) are not at all required by people in these populations, but caloric restriction in general is not particularly advisable. [...] Simple rule of thumb: where reproduction and growth are needed or desired, extra protein is needed (Gedgaudas 2009, 198).
 
I think this article is quite handy to have around:

_http://www.marksdailyapple.com/high-fat-diet-healthy-safe
- Mark's Daily Apple - _http://www.marksdailyapple.com -

Top 7 Most Common Reactions to Your High-Fat Diet (and How to Respond)
Posted By Mark Sisson On June 6, 2012 @ 8:00 am In Diet,Fat,How To | 436 Comments

A couple weeks back, I wrote about the top 8 most common reactions you get when people hear you don’t eat grains [1], and I offered up some concise responses to those reactions. It was well received, so I thought I’d do the same thing for “your high-fat diet.” If you thought having to explain your grain-free diet was tough, explaining a high-fat diet – in particular, a high-animal fat [2] diet – may seem even harder. At least with a grain-free diet, you’re merely removing something that many hold near and dear to their hearts. It’s “healthy” and “delicious,” sure, but at least you’re not adding something that will actively kill you. Fat is that deadly thing, for many people. It’s “fat,” for crying out loud. It’s bad for you, practically a poison. Everyone knows it. I mean, have you seen what fat down the kitchen drain does to your plumbing?

Actually, like the grain-free diet, explaining the high-fat diet is not that hard. I’ll even promise you that there are ways to do it, explanations and answers that don’t make you seem like a crazy person who hates his heart (I make no such promises for those of you with a stick of butter [3] with bite marks and a tub of coconut oil [4] with a greasy spoon beside it on your office desk, however). Now let’s get right to their questions and responses you can use:

“Isn’t all that fat gonna glom onto your arteries?”

That isn’t how it works. Atherosclerosis is caused by oxidized LDL [5] particles penetrating the arterial wall, inciting inflammation [6], and damaging the arterial tissue. It is not caused by fat mechanistically attaching itself to the surface of the arteries like fat in a kitchen pipe. Also, it’s not like you eat some butter and that butter gets directed straight into your bloodstream. Your blood doesn’t have oil slicks running through it, or congealed droplets of grease gumming up the passageways. You are the product of millions upon millions of years of evolution, and I think our bodies can do better than trying to ape modern plumbing.

Response: “My arteries are not pipes. Fat is not solidifying in my blood like it can in the plumbing. Atherosclerosis is a complex process with dozens of factors beyond what’s in your diet, let alone the fat content.”

“Isn’t all that cholesterol gonna raise your cholesterol?”

If I were a rabbit, sure. When you feed cholesterol to an herbivorous animal, like a rabbit, whose only encounters with dietary cholesterol occur in a lab setting, their blood lipids will increase and they will usually develop atherosclerosis. For many years, the “cholesterol-fed rabbit” was a popular model for studying heart disease and gave rise to the now-popular idea that dietary cholesterol also elevates blood lipids in humans (thus immediately condemning them to a heart attack, naturally). Except it isn’t the case. Save for a select few who are “hyper-responders,” the vast majority of people can eat cholesterol [7] without it affecting their cholesterol levels. And even when dietary cholesterol affects blood lipids, it’s usually an improvement [8], increasing HDL and the HDL:TC ratio while leaving LDL mostly unchanged. As for where all that blood cholesterol comes from, we make pretty much all the cholesterol in our blood in-house, and dietary cholesterol tends to suppress endogenous cholesterol synthesis [9]. Boy, between “staying local” and “only making as much as we need,” our livers are downright green. I bet our HDL is GMO-free [10] and organic to boot (not so sure about those sneaky LDL particles, though).

Response: “Dietary cholesterol does not affect total blood cholesterol. In fact, when we do eat cholesterol, our bodies make less of it to keep our blood levels in balance.”

“Isn’t all that fat gonna make you fat?”

Fat doesn’t make you fat. While you can technically overeat enough fat calories to accumulate adipose tissue, thus getting fat, this is a difficult feat, for two primary reasons:

Fat is very satiating [11], especially when paired with low-carb [12] eating. Grass-fed pot roast, ribbed with yellow fat, connective tissue, and ample protein is far more filling than some crusty bread spread with butter. You’ll eat a decent slice of the former and be done, but you could easily polish off half a loaf of the latter with half a stick of butter and still be hungry. It’s difficult to overeat on a high-fat, low-carb diet.

Dietary fat in the presence of large amounts of dietary carbohydrates can make it difficult to access fat for energy, while dietary fat in the presence of low levels of dietary carbohydrates makes it easier to access fat for energy. Couple that with the fact that fat and carbs are easier to overeat together, and you have your explanation. In fact, studies have shown that low-carb, high-fat diets not only reduce weight, they also retain or even increase lean mass [13]. That means it’s fat that’s being lost (rather than the nebulous “weight”), which is what we’re ultimately after.

Response: “No. Eating a high-fat, low-carb diet is the easiest way to inadvertently eat less without sacrificing satiation or satisfaction. It also improves your ability to access stored body fat rather than lean mass, which is helpful for fat loss.”

“But Dean Ornish/my mom/Walter Willet/the AHA/my doctor said saturated fat will give you heart attacks.”

They all may say that, and sound pretty convincing as they say it, but the science says differently. I tend to listen to the science, rather than what I think the science is saying:

A 2011 study [14] found that “reducing the intake of CHO with high glycaemic index is more effective in the prevention of CVD than reducing SAFA intake per se.”
From a 2010 study [15] out of Japan, saturated fat intake “was inversely associated with mortality from total stroke.”
A 2010 meta-analysis [16] found “that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD.”
That looks pretty clear cut to me.

Response: “The most recent studies have concluded that saturated fat intake likely has no relation to heart disease, contrary to popular opinion.”

“Where do you get your energy?”

I get my energy from fat [17], both dietary and stored body fat. At 9 calories per gram, fat is the densest source of energy. I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but humans tend to store it on their bodies. That’s not just for show, you know. We actually store it in our bodies as energy for later, for leaner times, for when food isn’t available. Fat is the ideal energy source for life’s daily activities; walking, working, even going for a hike or a light jog all access the oxidative, or fat-based energy pathway. Carbs only really come into play when you’re doing repeated bouts of intense exercise, like sprint intervals or high-intensity endurance training. But for just about everything else? Fat is king.

Response: “Fat is the body’s preferred and most reliable form of energy, which is why we store excess energy as fat on our bodies. Unless you think we accumulate body fat just to make pants fit tighter.”

“But isn’t fat totally free of nutrients? How do you get your vitamins if you’re eating all that fat?”

The richest source of natural tocotrienols (vitamin E), potent antioxidants, is red palm oil [18] – a fat.

One of the richest sources of choline [19], a vital micronutrient for liver function, is egg yolk – a fat.

One of the better sources of vitamin K2 [20], an oft-ignored nutrient involved in cancer prevention, arterial health, and bone metabolism, is grass-fed butter – a fat.

The best dietary source of vitamin D [21], a nutrient most people are deficient in, is cod liver oil – a fat.

See what I mean? Also, even when you’re cooking with a fat that doesn’t contain many vitamins, that fat is still going to improve the bioavailability of the fat-soluble vitamins (like A, D, E, K, K2) in the food you’re cooking.

Response: “Certain fats, like egg yolks, palm oil, extra virgin olive oil [22], cod liver oil, and grass-fed butter, are some of the most nutritious foods in existence. And without fat in your meals, you often won’t absorb all the nutrients that are present in other foods like leafy greens [23], since many of them require fat for full absorption.”

“Doesn’t the brain run on carbs, not fat?”

Yes, the brain requires glucose. That is true. However, the brain is more of a gas/diesel hybrid. It can run on both fat and glucose. Ketones, derived from fatty acids, can satisfy the majority of the brain’s energy needs, sparing the need for so much glucose. You’ll still need some glucose, as the brain can’t run purely on ketone bodies, but you won’t need nearly as much. And, best of all, your brain will run more efficiently on a combination of ketones and glucose than on glucose alone.

That improved efficiency means you can actually function without food. Since you have ample brain energy stores on your body (even the lean among us have enough body fat to last for weeks), and a high-fat diet allows you to access that body fat for brain energy, you’ll no longer suffer brain fog just because your afternoon meeting went a little long and you missed lunch. Instead, you’ll enjoy steadier, more even energy in mind and body.

Additionally, your body, through a process know as gluconeogenesis, can make up to 150 grams of glucose a day – more than the brain even needs (roughly 120 grams/day).

Response: “While it’s true that the brain requires some glucose for energy, using fat-derived ketones as well can make the brain run more efficiently and reduce its glucose requirements. On top of that, your body can probably create more glucose than your brain even requires.”

Compared to last week’s grains post, there were fewer entries today, the simple reason being that while grains are hyped beyond belief, people have but a few scant – albeit robustly defended – justifications for fearing dietary fat. The backlash almost always revolves around the visceral fear of “fat.” It’s a scary word, after all, but it shouldn’t be. No one should fear something so vital to life, so crucial for nutrient absorption and hormonal function, and so delicious with roasted vegetables [24].

Hopefully, these responses will help curb some of that fear.

So, what’d I miss? What else have you heard, and how did you respond? Let me and everyone know in the comments!

Grab a Copy of The Primal Blueprint 21-Day Total Body Transformation [25] and Start Getting Primal Today!

Article printed from Mark's Daily Apple: http://www.marksdailyapple.com

URL to article: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/high-fat-diet-healthy-safe/

URLs in this post:

[1] top 8 most common reactions you get when people hear you don’t eat grains: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/top-8-most-common-reactions-to-your-grain-free-diet-and-how-to-respond/#axzz1wxULs0Vc
[2] animal fat: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/yet-another-primal-primer-animal-fats/
[3] butter: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/grass-fed-butter/
[4] coconut oil: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/coconut-oil-health-benefits/#axzz1wzApo7tI
[5] oxidized LDL: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-interpret-cholesterol-test-results/
[6] inflammation: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-might-inflammation-cause-heart-disease/
[7] cholesterol: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/cholesterol/
[8] usually an improvement: _http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18203890
[9] dietary cholesterol tends to suppress endogenous cholesterol synthesis: _http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8857917
[10] GMO-free: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/gmo-monsanto/
[11] very satiating: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/curb-your-appetite-high-fat-diet/#axzz1wyDEvS9o
[12] low-carb: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/low-carb-flu/
[13] retain or even increase lean mass: _http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732
[14] study: _http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21978979
[15] study: _http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/08/04/ajcn.2009.29146.abstract
[16] meta-analysis: _http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract
[17] I get my energy from fat: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/a-metabolic-paradigm-shift-fat-carbs-human-body-metabolism/
[18] red palm oil: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/palm-oil-nutrition/
[19] choline: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/2-more-common-nutrient-deficiencies-and-what-to-do-about-them/
[20] vitamin K2: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/vitamin-k2/
[21] vitamin D: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/deconstructing-vitamin-d/
[22] extra virgin olive oil: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-all-olive-oil-created-equal/
[23] leafy greens: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-you-should-eat-leafy-greens/
[24] so delicious with roasted vegetables: _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-eat-more-vegetables/
[25] The Primal Blueprint 21-Day Total Body Transformation: _http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0982207778/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=marsdaiapp07-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=0982207778
Click here to print.

Copyright © 2009 Mark's Daily Apple. All rights reserved.
 
Mariama said:
...Butter is out, or so I read in Mrs. Tigersoap's article on French SOTT?...

As someone once said, "READ THE THREAD" (topic).

It might be out for some people, but not for all. For me it is the only dairy product apart from ghee that I can still eat -- I react badly to most dairy now that I have not had it for a while -- and organic pasture(d) butter, in season, is a major source of nutrients.

Butter contains only small amounts of milk protein (although if you are acutely allergic to that then you may not be able to have it). Ideally it should be made from natural milk, something that the PTB here in the USA have ensured is nearly impossible to find unless you milk the cow and churn the butter yourself.

The suitability of dairy is a complex question that is under debate. The "dairy products" commonly sold in stores are industrial processed foods, often toxic and generally to be avoided. The studies that have been done with milk tend to have their own issues. They generally look at industrial milk, and there is a tendency to look at the effects of constituents (such as casein) in isolation, which can, for example, suggest that a substance may be carcinogenic when it is not when consumed as a whole food by someone who is able to digest it properly.

Some people find that they are not sensitive to natural dairy even though they react to processed store-bought dairy (I am not one of them). Some studies indicate that people that grow up and live on farms and consume unprocessed dairy from the farm tend not to develop dairy sensitivities and allergies. On the other hand, not being sensitive to something doesn't mean that it is "optimal food."

Here are some of Nora Gedgaudas' comments on this subject, from the book Primal Body, Primal Mind. Other paleo/primal authors and researchers have said similar things.

Primal Body said:
Some traditional societies that raised grass-fed sheep, goats, and cattle were shown to have thrived on raw, whole-fat, unpasteurized, organic, grass-fed, hormone-free, antibiotic-free and pesticide-free, unhomogenized milk, cream, cheese, and nutrient-rich butter. Such dairy products are commercially unavailable at this time in most public markets, with the exception of some imported raw-milk cheeses (delicious!), but there are some online quality raw-dairy sources (see _www.organicpastures.com). A list of states in which certified raw-milk products are legal can be found by contacting A Campaign for Real Milk (_www.RealMilk.com) or at _www.eatwild.com. (Nationwide sources of grass-fed meats can also be found on the latter website.)

Small amounts of raw, unprocessed dairy products can be healthful, if desired, but only if they are well tolerated. Butter and heavy cream can be used more liberally by all but those people who are casein sensitive. Butter oils and ghee are casein-free and therefore essentially safe for people otherwise sensitive to dairy products...

Gedgaudas, Nora T. (2011-06-22). Primal Body, Primal Mind: Beyond the Paleo Diet for Total Health and a Longer Life (p. 27). Healing Arts Press. Kindle Edition.

Do READ THE BOOK. I have not included all of the precautions that Nora provides.

Given the uncertainties, you might very well want to avoid dairy. What is happening in the larger paleo community, however, is that some non-dairy-sensitive people are including raw & fermented raw dairy (prepared at home) as a way to improve their nutrient intake naturally. I can't say that this is or is not a good idea, but I think that it is good to be aware of.
 
Important note: Pregnant women, children, and teens, however, should not have their protein intake overly restricted. Carbohydrates (sugar and starch) are not at all required by people in these populations, but caloric restriction in general is not particularly advisable. [...] Simple rule of thumb: where reproduction and growth are needed or desired, extra protein is needed (Gedgaudas 2009, 198).

Mariama said her son started on the stomach acid supplement 3 months ago. that leads me to believe his protein intake has increased. otherwise it could just be that the diet switch affected his stomach acidity for some reason.
 
Megan said:
dugdeep said:
...I imagine what they're talking about is a type o fiber called inulin, or fructo-oligosaccarides...

I think that might be it. Sooner or later I will find the reference, or the topic will come up again in another podcast or blog. Thanks!

It turns out that oligosaccarides are FODMAP foods (the "O" in the acronym). They may promote healthy gut flora in some people but I am doing better without them. Once again, there is that individual variation. I started a low FODMAP diet a few days ago and felt relief from the fermentation within a day or so. I miss my avocado, but it looks as though it will have to go, along with mushrooms, onions, garlic, and xylitol, and I won't be adding any broccoli (or brussel sprouts) back in. I have tried eliminating all the others except avocado, but I can't remember if I ever eliminated that.

The good news is that I can still eat other non-FODMAP carbs, although my only major carb source at the moment is sweet potatoes. But then, interestingly enough, I am not (so far) seeing any sign of the GI problems that I had previously when I reduced carbs. I didn't want to reduce carbs, but there aren't many sources left that I can eat. I long ago eliminated nightshades because of arthritis, and between those and FODMAP foods, much of the produce section of the store is now off the list. Today I bought zucchini, yellow squash, and chard. I may bring back root vegetables; not sure about those yet.

I just checked both Hyman's Ultrasimple Diet book and the EE modified USD, and avocado is not listed as something to test, so I probably did not ever test it. I have thought of it mainly as a source of "good fat," not as a source of carbs. What started all of this current experimentation was that I decided to try Chris Kresser's "Personal Paleo Code," which is a customizable paleo diet guide and much better than USD in my opinion, but with a one-time charge for access to the materials that might be a barrier for some. It offers more choices than the USD, but is still easy to follow. You can choose "paleo" or Chris' "paleo plus," and there are "autoimmune" and other variants as well, along with guidance about what to do.

There wasn't much that I needed to change for the initial elimination diet (which is 30 days, rather than 7 for the USD), but I did need to eliminate eggs. So I did, and doubled my avocado consumption to compensate, throwing in more onion and garlic as well. And that is when the fermentation and gas really became severe. And then along came Kresser's FODMAP article, and finally I saw what might be causing it.

I have stayed under 50 grams/day of carbs for the last year, which is ketogenic for me. I was trying to keep carbs high within that limit because I felt better that way, but it may be that eliminating all FODMAP foods -- avocado in particular -- will change the way things work. It is too early to draw conclusions, but I am definitely feeling better at the moment, with fewer carbs.
 
Megan said:
Megan said:
dugdeep said:
...I imagine what they're talking about is a type o fiber called inulin, or fructo-oligosaccarides...

I think that might be it. Sooner or later I will find the reference, or the topic will come up again in another podcast or blog. Thanks!

It turns out that oligosaccarides are FODMAP foods (the "O" in the acronym). They may promote healthy gut flora in some people but I am doing better without them. Once again, there is that individual variation. I started a low FODMAP diet a few days ago and felt relief from the fermentation within a day or so. I miss my avocado, but it looks as though it will have to go, along with mushrooms, onions, garlic, and xylitol, and I won't be adding any broccoli (or brussel sprouts) back in. I have tried eliminating all the others except avocado, but I can't remember if I ever eliminated that.

You know, I seem to have been having some issues with onions and avocados, recently. I've been darn close to zero carb for over a year now and a couple of months back I decided to start adding some carbs back in for the summer. I've been experimenting with different things, but finally got frustrated and just went back to zero carbs. It seems I can't really add back any but the most minimal carb without suffering some sort of cravings. And it seems that onion, and possibly avocado, give me the worst constipation and very hard-to-pass stool. I'm not 100% sure it's the onion or the avocado but I have a strong suspicion. Maybe I'm FODMAP sensitive too...
 
Laura said:
Aragorn said:
I noticed an article in todays newspaper that talks about a recent study were they found many benefits of nicotinamide ribose. They isolated the substance from milk, and as we know milk is 'evil', but besides that the study was quite interesting. The study was published in Cell Metabolism, Volume 15, Issue 6, 838-847, 6 June 2012.
Researchers from the Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne found that the nicotinamide riboside (NR) ingredient found naturally in milk stimulates the SIRT1 gene (similar to a vitamin B compound), which helps boost the metabolism. Interestingly, the research focused on the weight-loss benefits of NR when combined with high-fat food consumption.

The study, which has so far only been tested on lab mice, discovered that rodents who were given high doses of NR along with high-fat foods, burnt more fat and showed (through better running performance) greater physical fitness levels and endurance to their muscles.

... the NR compound will have to be placed into a supplement for human consumption.






I did a little searching around. Seems to me that one can get the effect via taking the nicotinamide along with D-Ribose.

D-Ribose can be bought in bulk from nutrabulk.com - they accept paypal and will ship internationally.


I've been searching like mad to find more information about this, with little success. Would you mind sharing the things you found about the science of combining nicotinamide and D-Ribose? I'd like to order these substances, but I'm not sure if I should get niacin, nicotinamide, NADH, or what, to get the combined effect (nicotinamide ribose).

One thing I did find is that administrating nicotinamide has been shown to decrease insulin sensitivity, but strangely, accompanied also with weight loss, which makes me wonder. There's a short discussion about these things here: _http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/46744-nicotinamide-riboside-supplements/

Here's the abstract of the nicotinamide/insulin study:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8866571
Nicotinamide's effects on glucose metabolism in subjects at risk for IDDM.
Greenbaum CJ, Kahn SE, Palmer JP.

Source
Department of Medicine, University of Washington, Seattle, USA.

Abstract

Nicotinamide is being used in trials to prevent or delay the development of clinical IDDM. A related compound, niacin, has been shown to cause insulin resistance in normal subjects, resulting in increased insulin secretion. This study was designed to answer the question: Does the short-term administration of nicotinamide cause insulin resistance in subjects who have a high risk of developing IDDM? Eight islet cell antibody-positive (ICA+) relatives of IDDM patients were given nicotinamide at a dose of 2 g/day for 2 weeks. Measurements of first-phase insulin release, insulin sensitivity, glucose effectiveness, and the constant for glucose disappearance (Kg) were measured at baseline, at the end of 2 weeks of therapy, and after subjects had been off therapy for at least 2 weeks. Nicotinamide administration caused a 23.6% decrease in insulin sensitivity (P = 0.02). This decrease was associated with a fall in Kg despite increased insulin secretion. Our data suggest that the use of nicotinamide in subjects who are at risk of developing IDDM may be complicated by the drug's effects on insulin sensitivity. By inducing insulin resistance, a therapeutic effect of nicotinamide on the diabetes disease process may be missed, and the interpretation of insulin secretion measurements that are obtained during the intervention trials using nicotinamide may be complicated by the changes in insulin secretion that are caused by the increased insulin resistance. Therefore, we strongly support the recommendation that at least one subgroup of subjects enrolled in clinical trials to prevent IDDM have regular measurements of both insulin sensitivity and insulin secretion performed. This subgroup should be randomly assigned and large enough for statistical analysis to interpret properly the changes in insulin secretion that may occur.
 
dugdeep said:
You know, I seem to have been having some issues with onions and avocados, recently. I've been darn close to zero carb for over a year now and a couple of months back I decided to start adding some carbs back in for the summer. I've been experimenting with different things, but finally got frustrated and just went back to zero carbs. It seems I can't really add back any but the most minimal carb without suffering some sort of cravings. And it seems that onion, and possibly avocado, give me the worst constipation and very hard-to-pass stool. I'm not 100% sure it's the onion or the avocado but I have a strong suspicion. Maybe I'm FODMAP sensitive too...

Have you tried organic samphire (sea vegetable) yet? I don't seem to be sensitive to that. You may also want to look into seaweed. That is, if you're looking for some extra things you can eat with your dish. They also seem suitable for FODMAP sensitivity, but you're gonna have to test them if you want to try them out. Fwiw.
 
dugdeep said:
I've been darn close to zero carb for over a year now and a couple of months back I decided to start adding some carbs back in for the summer. I've been experimenting with different things, but finally got frustrated and just went back to zero carbs. It seems I can't really add back any but the most minimal carb without suffering some sort of cravings.

Similar for me, except that there arises at the same time a mild craving and a disinclination. The disinclination remains when the craving goes away.

Unlike you, I don't get any major gut issues from adding a bit of carbs - instead, my brain gets increasingly foggy as carbs are increased; on a smooth, continuous curve, it seems. A very small amount (literally no more than a few grams) is barely or sometimes not at all noticeable. (Unless sugar, which causes instant brain fog the moment my brain reacts to the taste and eating of it.) A little bit more and I distinctly don't feel fully as sharp as I could be - a dozen grams of carbs are more than enough for this.

In contrast, excess protein, which is supposed to increase glucose production too much and so have a similar effect, doesn't have this particular effect - instead, it simply leaves me a bit tired.
 
Gertrudes said:
Mariama, this is what stood out for me the most. Since he has cut out carbs, he needs to replace glucose with another fuel, that being fats. From what you said he seems to be having trouble eating fats, when that should be one, if not his main food source, without is he can't really transition into fat burning mode and will keep craving glucose. Because he's not getting as much of it his body will, in a way, starve and feel tired.

Is he able to eat lard, of beef dripping, if food is cooked in it? My partner initially found it very distasteful to have lard instead of olive oil, which he had used all his life for cooking, but now adds it to everything, including his veggies.

If this is of any help, it took me well over two months to transition to fat burning mode, during which I felt exhausted and foggy. When reading my book I had to read the same paragraph over and over because I just couldn't retain what I read. For me the transition was really hard, and from what I gathered from this thread it was also for many others. But you do want to speed up that transition and make it the least uncomfortable you can for your son. I don't know if there are any underlying issues, but right now and with the given data what I wrote above seems to me to be a major factor.

Thanks everybody for the replies. :)

Getrudes, yes, I am also worried about my son not eating enough fat. For breakfast I now give him sausage, which is nice and fatty with some veggies and drippings. But he is still hungry soon afterwards.
Thanks for telling me that the transition was hard for you, I remember.

Wetroof, yes, I think the fact that my son stopped eating fish and eggs had to do with him being low in stomach acid. As soon as he started taking Betain HCl he wanted to eat fish again.
He is slightly taller than 6 feet (1,83 meter).
He is often hungry, because he doesn't like eating extra fat. But when I give him a whole sausage (300 grammes or so) he has no problems with fat.
In the beginning I drank milk thistle tea which helped me dealing with the lard in broths and later on I took some capsules. I also had some problems digesting my food.

Megan, I did read the book and the thread up till December last year. But I forget a lot and I find the information sometimes contradictory, but maybe I do not understand it very well. I know that some people do tolerate butter, that is why I was confused.

Aragorn, thanks for sharing your experience with me. It is good to know that lots of people found it hard. I hadn't expected a difficult transition, as my son is generally in good health.
And I am not restricting his protein intake. He eats quite a lot of meat and fish a day. Do not know if the excess protein is turned into carbohydrates.
Good idea, this kettlebell. Last year during the summer months he did some skating every evening for about one hour. And then he stopped. Could also explain the loss of strength in his muscles?
He doesn't drink coffee, thank DCM. :)

Laura, I did not keep up with the tread, so I will catch up as soon as I can.
I should have waited with this lifestyle diet until things had settled more. Very bad timing, although my youngest son (12) doesn't have any health issues. The transition was much easier for him.
 

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