Thor said:Trevrizent said:Laura said:Trevrizent said:Thor, it was from TAASOLCL that my confusion started, in fact on rereading it yesterday evening it was then that I found that 1.5-2.5g/kg body weight referred to Protein Food, and not to protein amount. Protein content of 78g refers to my body weight, waist dimensions and other factors given by the Eades' in Protein Power.
Apart from the water loss at the start of reducing to 20g carbs, my weight has remained constant at 67kg, so no muscle loss. I have not read sufficiently far in PBPM yet to get to the figure that Laura has given - 0.95g/kg body weight - that's even lower and would equate to 63.65g of protein content per day. The amount of protein that I was eating for lunch is now reduced by a half! I'll need to do some more calcs to see what this further reduction equates to. :)
Well, this is why it is important to do the reading. But then, we've all been doing the reading and adjusting as we learn new stuff and when our experiments suggest that one thing or another is a better answer. I certainly couldn't understand why I wasn't going into ketosis after weeks and weeks. Well, obviously, I was eating too much protein.
But maybe, at the beginning, eating more protein is not such a bad idea because then you are still getting some carbs (converted from the extra protein) and that can help ease you into the lower protein amounts.
Trevrizent said:So, it looks like the shopping bag gets even lighter and cheaper, as the food amounts are much, much lower than on a high carb diet, even taking into account the cost of 'good' meat, and it will last longer too. :)
Keep in mind that fats are still pretty much unlimited except for your own limits which you will discover by experimenting. And carbs should stay pretty low.
Before going out this afternoon checked recommended protein amounts in PBPM.Note that actual protein includes both complete protein (meat, fish, eggs, etc) and incomplete /plant sources of foods (eg 1/2C broccoli is 2.5-3g protein).For most adults the RDA, roughly 0.8g per kilogram of ideal body weight (eg 150 pound ideal body weight (68kg) x 0.8 = 54g), is probably sufficient for 97.5 per cent of the adult population ... The average range would lie somewhere between 45 and 60g of actual protein per day for the majority of adults. ...
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... "protein intake is a key determinant of circulating IGF-1 levels in humans" and suggested that "a reduced protein intake (no more than 0.95g/kg of body weight per day) may become an important component of anticancer and anti-aging dietary interventions." (Fontana et al. 2008)
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... It isn't a good idea to exceed roughly 25g of actual protein in a meal, however, as this is the mTOR-stimulating threshold.
Regarding fats (butter/ghee, etc) (along with Vit C and Magnesium), by eating more (as Laura suggests sandwiched between ham, etc), this seems to be solving the constipation problem. :)
Edit: spelling
Wow, that 25 g of protein per meal is bad news for me . I have a big breakfast with probably 50-75 g of protein and then I don't eat until I am hungry again, which turns out to be dinner where I have another 50-75 g of protein.
I tried doing a search for mTOR but don't understand the explanation on wiki. Can anyone explain if this is a concern that one should take seriously or just something to note?
As i have come to understand, unless your a very active athlete, power walker, avid hiker, ( 2 to 3 hour hikes ) a serious road or dirt biker, a weight lifter (1 to 1 1/2 of intense circuit training as an example ) and or a long distance swimmer, that the is rule 1 gram of protein, perpound of body weight, to rebuild muscle and repair, so ones own body doesn't scavenge it own muscle to repair what it breaks down. Also ones digestive system can only process 25 to 30 grams of protein in one sitting, and too much protein, turns to fat and taxes the kidneys, with possible serious repercussions.
Can The Body Digest More Than 30 Grams of Protein at One Time?
http://www.staleytraining.com/articles/other/digest-more-than-30-grams-of-protein.htm
Many people think you eat some protein, it mixes with some acid or something, gets broken down into amino acids, gets taken up into the body, and everyone is happy.
I wish it were that simple. As with all foods, the breakdown of protein starts in the mouth with the simple chewing of food and the ex poser to certain enzymes. In the stomach, food mixes with enzymes and other factors such as lipase, pepsin, intrinsic factor, and of course HCL (stomach acid).
It moves onto the small intestine and then the large intestine.The small intestine is considered the major anatomical site of food digestion and nutrient absorption and is made up of section such as the duodenum, jejunum, and the ileum. Pancreatic enzymes (chymotrypsin, trypsin, etc.), bile salts, gastrin, cholecystokinin, pepidases, as well as many others factors are released here.
The large intestine is composed of the ascending colon, transverse colon, descending colon, and the sigmoid colon, which all play a part in absorbing the nutrients we eat. Sound complicated? It is. Believe me, I am leaving out a great deal of information so you wont fall asleep reading my little column! Suffice it to say, digestion is a very complicated thing and there are many places along the chain of digestion that can both enhance and degrade a persons ability to absorb the foods we eat.
There is no reason to think that among this complicated process that there are not wide individual differences in a persons ability to digest and absorb protein. For some person who is inactive, elderly, and for what ever reason lives with compromised digestion, 30 grams of protein at one sitting might very well be too much for them to handle.
By the same token, assuming a 220lbs healthy athlete is unable to exceed 30 grams of protein in one sitting is neither proven by medical science or even logical in my view.
So what if the 30 gram rule turns out to be true? If we examine some of the more recent studies on the protein requirements of athletes done by researchers from both the United Sates and Canada, we come to some recommended protein intakes that far exceed the RDAs, some times by as much as 225%!
These researchers came to the conclusion that protein intakes for athletes should range from approximately 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight for endurance athletes and up to 1.8g of protein per kg for strength training athletes. For a 200 pound bodybuilder-a strength training athlete-that would be approximately 164 grams of protein per day (most bodybuilders I know eat considerably more protein per day, but that's for another fight and another article...).
Assuming that 30 grams of protein is the most anyone can digest, absorb, and utilize, this person would have to split his intake into about five meals (164 divided by 30 = 5.47). So, given the advice by many people that 30 grams is all anyone can digest at a single sitting, it appears a person can achieve the goal of 30 grams of protein per meal even with the higher intakes recommended in the modern research (assuming they are willing or able to eat five meals per day).
However, if you happen to eat more than that per meal as a healthy athlete I don't think you have anything to worry about. I won't tell anyone. Me, I would suggest you stick to the one gram per pound of bodyweight rule, which often exceeds the research mentioned above.
Note to self: lose the tire around the midsection