"Life Without Bread"

[Jacques]

I must be weird, but I'm really getting tired of meat all the time.

I am in the same category.

And in fact tired is not strong enough. I wish we could have a pill perfectly balanced to replace all the meals that we have to take each day.

 

[Laura]

I must be weird, but I'm really getting tired of meat all the time.

I am in the same category.

And in fact tired is not strong enough. I wish we could have a pill perfectly balanced to replace all the meals that we have to take each day.

I dunno, I don't seem to get tired of bacon and eggs!

 

[shellycheval]

Quote from: Mrs. Peel on Today at 06:46:43 AM
Well, other than meat and eggs, if you're not doing veggies, what else is there to eat?? Fish?
I must be weird, but I'm really getting tired of meat all the time.

Laura It really is nice to not be driven by cravings for food.

Laura Well, actually, I see that as a good thing. That way I only eat for fuel.

I agree with you both.
Sometimes I get bored feelings too about eating essentially the same things all the time , but I have observed that those are feelings of the mind, not of the body. My body is blissful with the recent changes of even more restriction of carbs, eating just enough to satisfy hunger and then quitting--I have become very sensitive to feeling appropriately "full." I have realized that the boredom I struggle with is is when I am looking for some entertainment from my food, especially in social situations. Because I have real hunger (the likes of which I rarely experienced when I was eating carbs every two or three hours before) now, when that hunger is satisfied with the food my body craves, the hunger stops.

Any desire for "something more" has to be dealt with by recognizing that it is from the mind not the body. It really helps to just pause before I move to eat something I don't need and FEEL my body--how much better, wonderful, I feel now, and to remember those physical feelings of pain, swelling, bloat, gas, acid reflux, etc etc etc and compare them to how wonderful I feel now--this stops me in my tracks! Occasionally I would distract myself with some other entertainment--fun reading for a little while, "playing" outside with my horses, etc. Once I can recognize those feelings and move away from them then I am OK and the desire for "something more" goes away. I have less and less temptation all the time.

Laura

I dunno, I don't seem to get tired of bacon and eggs!

DITTO! I eat either bacon or ham and eggs as my standard breakfast. I buy nitrate free bacon as often as possible but find about 2/3 of the bacon I eat contain nitrates. I am hoping because my system is running so much better now, losing fat not storing it, and I am drinking a lot of water, that I am quickly flushing such toxins out. I do not overcook the bacon to "crisp" anymore but leave it at the "leather" stage and find it delicious. I keep cooked bacon on a plate in the fridge for a quick protein bite if I feel I must have something because I have been delayed cooking a meal. I find myself scooping up the cold lard from the plate and spreading it on a piece of bacon and also finding it delicious! "Who'd of thunk it?" six months ago! Some of the left over bacon grease goes on the grain free meal I give my dogs--I think they are better for a higher fat diet too.

Clearly the pig must be the sacred animal of the FOTCM as it was for many goddess worshipers in the past.

shellycheval

 

[mamadrama]

Though I'm not tiring of eggs and bacon for breakfast, I am tired of eating meat at the other meals. The effects of a low carb diet continue to be dramatic for me but I do still feel a little bereft at the total lack of pleasure from eating and cooking. Maybe it will pass eventually.

Mrs P., I've been getting a bit fed up on the all meat diet, as well and the other day, made a delicious wok-dish where I marinated some steak in olive oil, apple cider vinegar, garlic, ginger, turmeric (which has curcumin in it) and crushed fennel seeds. I stir fried this in the wok along with a squash, a broccoli and a two carrots. I got three meals out of it and the carb tally for each was less than 10

Yes, I make something similar that satisfies me psychologically as well as nutritionally...

Brown some ground beef in lard with scallions, carrots, golden beets, turnips, nuts, ginger, salt, and pepper. When done, wrap it up in romaine lettuce leaves - just delicious. Of course if you can't tolerate any of the above just substitute/eliminate for something similar that works for you. This satisfies me not just because of the few added carbs, I think, but because of the variation of textures, colors, and taste. :)

 

[Ben]

I cannot get tired of eating duck and belly pork, I just don't see how it could ever happen. I don't even put anything on it at all apart from salt. Long live duck.

 

[SolarMother]

Megan

Another point that PBPM makes is that "natural" meat is grain-fattened unless it specifically says it is not. While there might be fewer toxins in the fat (but that's not clear), the grain-feeding destroys the omega-3 fatty acids you would otherwise be getting from the meat. Just because you bought it at a "good" store and paid more for it, that doesn't mean it is truly "natural diet." The labeling must be clear that it is exclusively natural diet. I know (and have known) that not everything I buy is, but I need to eat something.

Yes, it's very frustrating to find good meat around here. We have to supplement our Omega 3. We shop mostly at Vitamin Cottage because it seems to be less industrialized. We are still searching for an animal farm that has enough fat on their meats, that doesn not use feed grain to fatten their animals--it doen't look good.

 

[Laura]

Though I'm not tiring of eggs and bacon for breakfast, I am tired of eating meat at the other meals. The effects of a low carb diet continue to be dramatic for me but I do still feel a little bereft at the total lack of pleasure from eating and cooking. Maybe it will pass eventually.

Have you been eating fish? Scallops? Shrimp?

Do you use home made mayonnaise to add a little variation? Fry, roast, stew, barbecue? Smoked fish?

I wonder if we were actually supposed to derive psychological pleasure from food as we have been programmed to believe we deserve?

I dunno. Just asking. All I know is that I spent nearly my entire life hungry and thinking about food. I didn't realize that my brain was doing this because I wasn't getting nutrition due to leaky gut, gluten, casein, etc. For me, the relief of being free of these intrusive thoughts about food - planning, anticipating, preparing, eating etc - far outweighs any boredom I might have with the food I'm eating.

However, ya'll can be eating tuna, chicken, ham salads made with home-made mayonnaise; you can eat deviled eggs or egg salad. I even think that, as one of our occasional veggie additions that I'm going to make cole slaw.

 

[Jacques]

However, ya'll can be eating tuna,

Sorry to ask that, but tuna is not supposed to be on the black list since it is a big fish and can be potentially dangerous to our health because of mercury ?

 

[manitoban]

I wonder if we were actually supposed to derive psychological pleasure from food as we have been programmed to believe we deserve?

I dunno. Just asking. All I know is that I spent nearly my entire life hungry and thinking about food. I didn't realize that my brain was doing this because I wasn't getting nutrition due to leaky gut, gluten, casein, etc. For me, the relief of being free of these intrusive thoughts about food - planning, anticipating, preparing, eating etc - far outweighs any boredom I might have with the food I'm eating.

I have been thinking similar thoughts. Food planning and preparation is so simple now, and since I never really get hungry anymore, food is becoming a bit like putting gas in the car, and once you've done it, no need to even think about it anymore. Much less energy lost thinking and anticipating the "pleasures" of food.

When you think about this idea that we are programmed from birth really to associate food (and unhealthy food at that) with pleasure, it makes sense. It seems to me that when you consider just how much of their energy is spent by most people in our society worrying, anticipating etc about food, you gotta think, what a great distraction from being able to DO anything about the things that really matter. A distraction that goes on almost all the time for many people.

 

[Laura]

However, ya'll can be eating tuna,

Sorry to ask that, but tuna is not supposed to be on the black list since it is a big fish and can be potentially dangerous to our health because of mercury ?

Yeah, but you can find safe sources, I think.

Heck, pretty soon, with the Fukushima thing, all food is going to be radioactive and we'll be glowing in the dark!

 

[Ollie]

Thor, it was from TAASOLCL that my confusion started, in fact on rereading it yesterday evening it was then that I found that 1.5-2.5g/kg body weight referred to Protein Food, and not to protein amount. Protein content of 78g refers to my body weight, waist dimensions and other factors given by the Eades' in Protein Power.

Apart from the water loss at the start of reducing to 20g carbs, my weight has remained constant at 67kg, so no muscle loss. I have not read sufficiently far in PBPM yet to get to the figure that Laura has given - 0.95g/kg body weight - that's even lower and would equate to 63.65g of protein content per day. The amount of protein that I was eating for lunch is now reduced by a half! I'll need to do some more calcs to see what this further reduction equates to. :)

Well, this is why it is important to do the reading. But then, we've all been doing the reading and adjusting as we learn new stuff and when our experiments suggest that one thing or another is a better answer. I certainly couldn't understand why I wasn't going into ketosis after weeks and weeks. Well, obviously, I was eating too much protein.

But maybe, at the beginning, eating more protein is not such a bad idea because then you are still getting some carbs (converted from the extra protein) and that can help ease you into the lower protein amounts.

So, it looks like the shopping bag gets even lighter and cheaper, as the food amounts are much, much lower than on a high carb diet, even taking into account the cost of 'good' meat, and it will last longer too. :)

Keep in mind that fats are still pretty much unlimited except for your own limits which you will discover by experimenting. And carbs should stay pretty low.

Before going out this afternoon checked recommended protein amounts in PBPM.

For most adults the RDA, roughly 0.8g per kilogram of ideal body weight (eg 150 pound ideal body weight (68kg) x 0.8 = 54g), is probably sufficient for 97.5 per cent of the adult population ... The average range would lie somewhere between 45 and 60g of actual protein per day for the majority of adults. ...
...
... "protein intake is a key determinant of circulating IGF-1 levels in humans" and suggested that "a reduced protein intake (no more than 0.95g/kg of body weight per day) may become an important component of anticancer and anti-aging dietary interventions." (Fontana et al. 2008)
...
... It isn't a good idea to exceed roughly 25g of actual protein in a meal, however, as this is the mTOR-stimulating threshold.

Note that actual protein includes both complete protein (meat, fish, eggs, etc) and incomplete /plant sources of foods (eg 1/2C broccoli is 2.5-3g protein).

Regarding fats (butter/ghee, etc) (along with Vit C and Magnesium), by eating more (as Laura suggests sandwiched between ham, etc), this seems to be solving the constipation problem. :)

Edit: spelling

 

[Ca.]

Anchovy and sardine's, please, especially in salads, or from the fish mongers deli, wrapped around a green olive. Screaming, ( slang for outrageous ). Great way to get a little iodine in the blood.

 

[Thor]

Thor, it was from TAASOLCL that my confusion started, in fact on rereading it yesterday evening it was then that I found that 1.5-2.5g/kg body weight referred to Protein Food, and not to protein amount. Protein content of 78g refers to my body weight, waist dimensions and other factors given by the Eades' in Protein Power.

Apart from the water loss at the start of reducing to 20g carbs, my weight has remained constant at 67kg, so no muscle loss. I have not read sufficiently far in PBPM yet to get to the figure that Laura has given - 0.95g/kg body weight - that's even lower and would equate to 63.65g of protein content per day. The amount of protein that I was eating for lunch is now reduced by a half! I'll need to do some more calcs to see what this further reduction equates to. :)

Well, this is why it is important to do the reading. But then, we've all been doing the reading and adjusting as we learn new stuff and when our experiments suggest that one thing or another is a better answer. I certainly couldn't understand why I wasn't going into ketosis after weeks and weeks. Well, obviously, I was eating too much protein.

But maybe, at the beginning, eating more protein is not such a bad idea because then you are still getting some carbs (converted from the extra protein) and that can help ease you into the lower protein amounts.

So, it looks like the shopping bag gets even lighter and cheaper, as the food amounts are much, much lower than on a high carb diet, even taking into account the cost of 'good' meat, and it will last longer too. :)

Keep in mind that fats are still pretty much unlimited except for your own limits which you will discover by experimenting. And carbs should stay pretty low.

Before going out this afternoon checked recommended protein amounts in PBPM.

For most adults the RDA, roughly 0.8g per kilogram of ideal body weight (eg 150 pound ideal body weight (68kg) x 0.8 = 54g), is probably sufficient for 97.5 per cent of the adult population ... The average range would lie somewhere between 45 and 60g of actual protein per day for the majority of adults. ...
...
... "protein intake is a key determinant of circulating IGF-1 levels in humans" and suggested that "a reduced protein intake (no more than 0.95g/kg of body weight per day) may become an important component of anticancer and anti-aging dietary interventions." (Fontana et al. 2008)
...
... It isn't a good idea to exceed roughly 25g of actual protein in a meal, however, as this is the mTOR-stimulating threshold.

Note that actual protein includes both complete protein (meat, fish, eggs, etc) and incomplete /plant sources of foods (eg 1/2C broccoli is 2.5-3g protein).

Regarding fats (butter/ghee, etc) (along with Vit C and Magnesium), by eating more (as Laura suggests sandwiched between ham, etc), this seems to be solving the constipation problem. :)

Edit: spelling

Wow, that 25 g of protein per meal is bad news for me . I have a big breakfast with probably 50-75 g of protein and then I don't eat until I am hungry again, which turns out to be dinner where I have another 50-75 g of protein.

I tried doing a search for mTOR but don't understand the explanation on wiki. Can anyone explain if this is a concern that one should take seriously or just something to note?

 

[Laura]

I tried doing a search for mTOR but don't understand the explanation on wiki. Can anyone explain if this is a concern that one should take seriously or just something to note?

That's some of the really interesting new stuff that this book brings to the table! There's a whole chapter about it. It's fascinating.

 

[SolarMother]

Manitoban

When you think about this idea that we are programmed from birth really to associate food (and unhealthy food at that) with pleasure, it makes sense. It seems to me that when you consider just how much of their energy is spent by most people in our society worrying, anticipating etc about food, you gotta think, what a great distraction from being able to DO anything about the things that really matter. A distraction that goes on almost all the time for many people.

Yes, this is spot on.
Think of those who make it their vocation or life-style to pursue the 3D pleasures of the 'grand distraction' called 'bon appetit!' Its a huge industry!

Paraphrased: "They were eating, drinking and giving in marriage until the end..."

It does feel better to not have to worry about or plan out 'well-balanced' or elaborate meals anymore!
Due to some lethargy though, haven't been as creative with the food as I could be, but then again, maybe I just want to 'fuel up' and get on with other things.

c.a.

Anchovy and sardine's, please, especially in salads, or from the fish mongers deli, wrapped around a green olive. Screaming, ( slang for outrageous ). Great way to get a little iodine in the blood.

Definitely! ;)