M.M.S. Miracle Mineral Solution and Jim Humble

Laura

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The whole Portisch rant is so pathetic that I sure hope Nexus publishes it. Another nail in the coffin of their credibility to be defended by nutcases like that.

So far, we haven't encountered anyone who is not certifiable defending Humble and MMS.
 

Sheebah

The Force is Strong With This One
Laura said:
The whole Portisch rant is so pathetic that I sure hope Nexus publishes it. Another nail in the coffin of their credibility to be defended by nutcases like that.

So far, we haven't encountered anyone who is not certifiable defending Humble and MMS.

Yet the FDA shuts down all kinds of legit operations and good people. Meanwhile MMS destroys the kidney chi. When I heard about you "outing" this fraudster a while back I was very pleased. I have at least 2 former clients who were ravaged by this stuff. The psycho babble sold them on it and even after they started taking it and it made them sick they still kept taking it cause they were so completely under the spell of the marketing. It's dangerous and should be illegal!
 

scifiscriptwriter

The Force is Strong With This One
Thanks TruthSeeker - I was in DP when the BBC contacted Jim Humble - he answered a whole lot of questions via email.

In retrospect - what I think could damage humanity's access to alternative medicine - herbs, clays etc., is anything they can prove has a detrimental effect on the human organism - shut down Humble and MMS - next everything else - lumping it all together - makes me wonder about a lot of things ...
 

Possibility of Being

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Just came across another site on MMS scam:

Jim Humble is a fraud and Miracle Mineral Solution is a scam!
http://sites.google.com/site/mmsdebunked/

It's not very rich in scientific data and is being run anonymously, but makes a few good points, IMO; for example on that Thomas Hesselink MD who is an author of the research allegedly backing up MMS efficacy.

FWIW
 

rylek

Dagobah Resident
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This is more a question for Psyche, input from others is of course welcome.

Beginning of January I published the Czech translation of MMS: Miracle Mineral Solution or Trojan Horse? Your Body and DNA Decide

At this point I should point out that MMS is starting to be quite a big deal in the Czech Rep. with overall positive reviews out there (although I don't follow the scene closely) which means plenty of emotionally invested people in this topic.

Recently the article started getting comments mostly from supporters of MMS, who base their counter arguments on 1. don't trust the opinion of medical doctors or anything that has to do with science-medicine as that's all corrupt and designed to keep us sick 2. then there are those who recount their personal experience how MMS helped/saved them/their family members/pets.

Also the article was linked to from (what I gather) is the main homepage for MMS in the Czech Rep. It seems they've got quite a lengthy response from Humble to the article where he basically gets into the finer details of why the chemistry/scientific claims in that article are false. It's actually a paragraph by paragraph rebuttal of the information. I searched to see if there is an English version out there but came out empty handed. At the end Humble also takes a jab at the "brazen illusion called CAM (Complementary and Alternative Medicine).

Before going any further I wanted to get feedback from Psyche/group whether it is worth responding by getting into the finer details of the chemistry etc (which most people don't understand anyway) or if it's better to write a general response along the lines that people should be healing themselves holistically, detoxing, starting with their diet, supplements etc and not solely rely on a controversial and potentially lethal chemical instead.

Edit: I ran the article trough google translate and it's not too bad to read: http://tinyurl.com/4r4vp2b
 

Gaby

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Hi rylek,

The problem is that Humble will always make rebuttals that just confuses the whole thing.

I'll post here a few testimonials I received, it will be good to translate some of them. Plus, the testimonials already published in this forum. In addition to that, there is the concerns that other health organizations had brought. They are sending detox kits for people who had very bad reactions to MMS. They also asked me why some people see good results.

Here is a synthesis I wrote to them FWIW, you might want to translate:

The thing with MMS is that it can effectively kill microorganisms such as bacteria, virus, parasites, and fungi. There is a whole spectrum of diseases that are caused and/or aggravated by these microorganisms including atypical bacteria, which can manifest as mood problems, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, multiple chemical sensitivities or other autoimmune diseases, not to mention the usual infections. A person with a toxic load can also be susceptible to getting infected by atypical microorganisms or of having recurrent or chronic infections, as they are chronically stressed and their defenses are lowered.

But it is a double-edged treatment. MMS is really not alternative treatment, it is more like an "antibiotic". Yes, sometimes antibiotics are life-saving. But we know that the importance of healing when there is a toxic state in the body comes from reinforcing the body's defenses, detoxifying from toxic chemicals, and providing the necessary raw nutrients and elements so that the body can balance and heal itself.

Those who use MMS and MMS2 and find it has no side effects, or who succeed in treating themselves, should understand that a sub-clinical dose of a poison acts cumulatively. Long term damage can manifest after a delay with either short or long-term use depending on the genetic predisposition of the individual. But those people who are susceptible (say a genetic predisposition to detoxify chemicals less effectively) or who have reached their "toxic threshold", are vulnerable to an awful and unexpected reaction.

Everyone is different, so even if individuals are exposed to the same toxins, each person can develop different diseases and symptoms that are unique to them and determined by genetic susceptibility, food intolerances and previous exposure to other toxic chemicals in the environment through the air we breathe, the food we eat, the homes we live in, etc. This individual response also accounts for the different length of time between an initial toxic event and the development of symptoms between individuals. A person with an unhealthy detox system might get sick very quickly, while others can be relatively healthy for 10 years before problems begin.

You'll find a great deal of information from the water chlorination industry on how it so safe and effective in killing microorganisms because it is so volatile, and how it can even neutralize volatile organic compounds. Yet, according to some researchers (and even the same people), there is not enough information about its chemical by-products. I'm open to the possibility that as chlorine dioxide, it can combine with other toxic compounds and neutralize them. But that is pushing it considerably. As an oxidizer and volatile compound, it can actually combine with other chemicals in the body to produce something that may be more harmful in the long run. Not to mention that MMS by itself produces damage in the long-term. Detoxification pathways in the liver produce more dangerous compounds than the initial toxic chemical before it is able to neutralize them for their elimination.

From: http://www.gewater.com/handbook/cooling_water_systems/ch_27_chlorine.jsp
"The chemical behavior and oxidation characteristics of aqueous chlorine dioxide [ClO2 in water] are not well understood because of the difficulty in differentiating aqueous chlorine-containing species. [...] Chlorine dioxide consumed in water treatment reactions reverts to chlorite ions (ClO2-), chlorate ions (ClO3- ), and chloride ions (Cl -). There are some concerns about the long-term health effects of the chlorite ion in potable water supplies. [...] The hazardous nature of chlorine dioxide vapor and its precursor, and the volatility of aqueous solutions of chlorine dioxide, require caution in the design and operation of solution and feeding equipment."

People in the Gulf Coast are being subjected to a giant experiment on hazardous chemicals from the oil spill with all their possible combinations. They don't need more of that. That we have had people who nearly died among those who tried MMS doesn't bode well. [...]

I wouldn't trust Jim Humble and his MMS nor any other modified product that he creates. That he started commercializing MMS2 just baffled me because its toxicity is so well documented that I was not able to conceive of anyone trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes with something like that. It is just mind-boggling! Worse still, Jim Humble was sending me his rebuttals about MMS for awhile. I found even more disturbing information on the scientific paper that he sent me than the ones I was able to dig out for my article! Our organization has also uncovered some concerning information about Jim Humble as well. He is, in short, a very dubious character.

You are welcome to use my message on your group page. Also, I read a list of an EPA poster presentation of chemicals with the strongest evidence of developmental neurotoxicity that the agency plans to finish and release next year:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/220322-Too-Little-Too-Late-EPA-Builds-List-of-Potentially-Dangerous-Chemicals

Chlorine dioxide is listed there.

-----

Search for MMS articles in the sott page, iespecially the sott focus were we published these rebuttals.

Here is another related article:

Chlorine and Cancer
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/220879-Chlorine-and-Cancer

Chlorine is added to swimming pools to kill bacteria, but Spanish researchers say the chemical in large quantities can cause DNA damage that could increase the r...isk of cancer.

Their study is published in Environmental Health Perspectives (EHP) journal, coordinated by researchers from the Centre for Research in Environmental Epidemiology (CREAL) and the Research Institute Hospital del Mar.

The evidence of DNA damage, known as genotoxic effects, was observed in 49 healthy adults after they spent 40 minutes in a chlorinated indoor pool.

The DBPs formed in the pools are the result of the reactions appeared between the water disinfectants such as chlorine pools and organic matter, which occurs naturally or is introduced by swimmers through sweat, skin cells and urine.

Previous studies found an association between exposure to DBPs of drinking water and bladder cancer risk.

-----

Testimonials:

A readers comment who followed the suggested dose:

Mario Cruzate says:
Tuesday, 12 October 2010 12:25 at 12:25

...Certainly, this is a very dangerous solution. It happened that my son ordered this product thru internet with “OceansLab” company based in Boca Raton,FL. He drinked as directed this past Sunday and next day he woke up with headaches, during the day he started with nauseas (we didn’t know that he drank this product) and about 4:am on tuesday I took him to Emergency hospital with severe vomiting, headaches, diarrhea. He stays in ICU, went thru different procedures until Drs stabilized his body. I just called Oceans Lab and a woman answered, she said that they never advertized this product to be drink it and that they are not responsible for my son situation. I called FDA and they said that is unfortunate that happened an required me to fill up some forms to report this incident. I don’t know what else to do because we have to pay the hospital bill and have no health insurance.

Another reader's comment:

Helen Marie says:
Thursday, 2 September 2010 15:03 at 15:03

...Please help me with this. I have searched web sites for an answer and still don’t know what to do. What kind of Dr would I go to if I took MMS and have been having problems ever since. I started having severe panic attacks and did not realize it was from the MMS until later. I am not the same after taking it for 2 months. I lost over 50 lbs in the 2 months and do not know what I have done to my body. I told my Dr and he said it was harmless, like the bleach you get when drinking water. I know it is more than that. I have high copper levels and have not taken it for a month but still am having problems. Would it be out of my system and why am I having problems now? Crying, panic, fears, unable to sleep, I’m a totally different person now and I’m scared of what it has done.

‎This is a google translation, original is in Spanish:

Hello.
The truth is that I have leucopenia, and its related diseases. I bought the MMS in Mexico, along with the MMS2 and citric acid. The truth is that when I opened the package, I open...ed the pill MMS2 and the smell threw me for q smells ugly, really really scared and decided not to take the pills. Ingested a single drop of mms1 and citric acid, the mixture of the drops began to release chlorine odor (aggressive on the nose) and began to turn a greenish color, I added water, would not start with 3 drops of c / u as indicated, but only by one and see what happens. Q What happened to me was this: I waited after ingesting something happened mentally or aq me feel something, nausea or something but nothing happened, approx 5 hours later I got diarrhea from that q is pure water, and hurt me the right abdomen region, as if he had something embedded there, between the liver and the appendix (the latter not if this right) but I got horrible, q had me put my hand to ease my pain. And that was all I did q did not see any improvement in my many symptoms, I actually felt much worse, with lethargy, mild nausea and general malaise. by that I mean if it's not bad or good, but I decided not to continue taking it, only expose qa what happened to me with a single drop. Well that's my experience and not continue to take it because I do not trust him. if anyone wants my two bottles MMS2 more pills to sell them is half what it cost me qa plus shipping. Actually I do not want to have it here at home. Greetings and if someone really helped him keep using it. Finally my comment is not to reject or accept the MMS is only my own conclusion that I hope will be respected. Greetings[end quote]

Thought I would clarify this comment, since it is a google translation. He basically has a low white blood cell count, meaning that he has less defenses against pathogens. So perhaps that is why he thought that taking MMS was such a good idea. If MMS kills bugs, then that would protect him instead. But with the ingestion of one single drop of MMS AKA MMS1, he had diarrhea, nausea, lethargy, horrible abdominal pain, was basically very sick. Just one drop.

---

This feedback is from the Chlorine Chemistry Division of the American Chemistry Council to the article http://www.health-matrix.net/2010/08/10/mms-miracle-mineral-solution-or-trojan-horse-your-body-and-dna-decide/:

Consumers should be aware ...that the U.S. Food & Drug Administration issued a press release July 30, 2010, warning of “serious harm from drinking Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS).” The FDA press release notes the agency has received **reports of “health injuries from consumers using this product, including severe nausea, vomiting, and life-threatening low blood pressure from dehydration.”***

These products should never be ingested.

Best,
Mary Ostrowski
American Chemistry Council

------

Search also Gulf Coast Barefoot Doctors and MMS, you'll find more information from them. I think that we should have some info translated. So far, I've been replying in Spanish as well. I don't know if people have been commenting in other languages, but keep in mind that an increasing number of people are speaking against MMS and Humble. Especially in America and from the alternative medicine area. So it is entirely possible that he will search for followers in other non-English speaking countries. This is why it is important to have some testimonials and rebuttals translated, IMHO. People should know that some have had life-threatening experiences with only one drop of that stuff.

Hope this helps.
 

Laura

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Also, point out the fact that the FDA did NOTHING until AFTER SOTT exposed MMS. And then, all they did was post a warning. We know perfectly well that they can get a product off the market if they want to. They don't want to because they want people to be poisoned and blame it on alternative therapies so they can take all supplements and vitamins off the market. Jim Humble is, quite simply, a false flag attack on health.
 

rylek

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Psyche said:
Hi rylek,

The problem is that Humble will always make rebuttals that just confuses the whole thing.

That's clearly the intent behind the response written by Humble, it's meant to further muddy the waters and for him to sound like an authority.

Psyche said:
I'll post here a few testimonials I received, it will be good to translate some of them. Plus, the testimonials already published in this forum. In addition to that, there is the concerns that other health organizations had brought. They are sending detox kits for people who had very bad reactions to MMS. They also asked me why some people see good results.

Here is a synthesis I wrote to them FWIW, you might want to translate:

...

Hope this helps.

Thanks Psyche, much appreciated. I'll get on with the translating ASAP.
 

rylek

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Laura said:
Also, point out the fact that the FDA did NOTHING until AFTER SOTT exposed MMS. And then, all they did was post a warning. We know perfectly well that they can get a product off the market if they want to. They don't want to because they want people to be poisoned and blame it on alternative therapies so they can take all supplements and vitamins off the market. Jim Humble is, quite simply, a false flag attack on health.

That's another good point.

Edit: I'll keep you posted with further development.
 

mmsfraud

A Disturbance in the Force
Hi everyone.

I'm the author of mmsdebunked. Sorry for not dropping back in earlier but I've been trawling a lot of forums and am not so great at always keeping track of where I've been...

Some people asked me to give some back ground about myself and why I decided to investigate MMS and Jim Humble.

I have a little bio on my site, http://sites.google.com/site/mmsdebunked/about-the-author

I am pleased to say that the relative of mine who started me on this journey finally agreed to get rid of the MMS, nearly a year after i started the site. The story is there on my site.

I just wanted to drop in again and say Hi and thank you all for doing a great job on this forum. As I mentioned, I read many forums which discuss MMS and most are not nearly as switched on yet still open minded as the people here.
 

Niall

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Leo40 said:
It might interest you that NEXUS magazine ceased publication in the USA.
I don't know why.

Do you have any references for this Leo?
 
G

Gertrudes

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Kniall said:
Leo40 said:
It might interest you that NEXUS magazine ceased publication in the USA.
I don't know why.

Do you have any references for this Leo?

I'm not sure of whether this is where Leo40 found it, but in Nexus page here: _http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&Itemid=106 it says:

Black Ram, LLC d/b/a Nexus Magazine USA, also referred to as Nexus USA, is no longer authorized or licensed to solicit or accept subscriptions or advertising for Nexus Magazine. Interested subscribers or advertisers in North America should instead deal directly with Nexus Magazine Pty Ltd through this website.
 

WhiteBear

Jedi Master
Gertrudes said:
Black Ram, LLC d/b/a Nexus Magazine USA, also referred to as Nexus USA, is no longer authorized or licensed to solicit or accept subscriptions or advertising for Nexus Magazine. Interested subscribers or advertisers in North America should instead deal directly with Nexus Magazine Pty Ltd through this website.

Customer review of Black Ram, LLC in Greensboro, NC
_http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Black.Ram.LLC.336-333-5194/review/list

BLACK RAM SUCKS!

They stole my subscription money for Nexus magazine, cashed the check and went on vacation.... DO NOT TRUST BLACK RAM LLC!

January 09, 2011 by Nexus subscriber

_http://www.b2byellowpages.com/company-information/310247409-black-ram-llc.html
Address of Black Ram, LLC in Walterboro, SC

_http://maps.google.com/maps?q=205+Memorial+Ave+Walterboro+SC+29488&hl=en&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=205+S+Memorial+Ave,+Walterboro,+Colleton,+South+Carolina+29488&gl=us&ll=32.900259,-80.662109&spn=0.002477,0.004072&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=32.900731,-80.662426&panoid=AQ6bNLtNJaKYU8XfuSAI0A&cbp=12,193.61,,0,7.37
Street view of Black Ram, LLC address

Odd little garage operation, it appears...
Side note...The Order of the Black Ram is a Satanic coven
_http://www.satanservice.org/covens.html#OBR

Person of Interest: Michael Grumbowski, who not only founded the OBR, but also appears to be an active member of the Archdiocese of Detroit
_https://www.aodonline.org/nr/aod/customapplications/parish/parish.asp?InstitutionID=89&FRAMELESS=true&NRNODEGUID={3480A97F-ECB0-4F72-AEA7-D454CBF6C545}
 
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