Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

Lumiere_du_Code

Jedi Council Member
"Poroshenko announced the availability of satellite imagery space launch rocket brought down Boeing." - Ukrainian media.

Ukraine has no satellites, but have snapshots :perfect: So would immediately and said: CIA was shoved us pictures of Photoshop, we wave your the same as shaking washing powder accusing Syria.

Lethal proof! If with a magnifying glass to examine, it is possible even to make out shoulder straps of the colonel of KGB at the aviatipper-of in the balloon which hasn't got to a shot :D
Also, in a satellite picture it is clearly visible a sickle, a hammer and Putin's portrait on shoulder straps of the Russian spotters of fire. Nearby sledge with a stack of boxes with vodka which pulls the sled of bears with balalaika... :ninja:

In that day it was cloudy. Revise video from the July 17. And then look at a picture.
Sky truly such crappy quality in reality? And on what basis it is clear that the photo is made in this day and YEAR?
If to open this file in images editor (Paint will approach), on the horizon there where the sky connects to the earth, the sky from an original photo and fragment of the sky which has been cut out together with objects inserted by the graphic editor which added to the horizon is clearly visible. there literally small squares it is visible. and in the real sky there are no small squares on a certain increase.

---

Here is how 'Buk' shoots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HQLh-HKaz8
 

Niall

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Aragorn said:
That's what I've been thinking, too. Has anyone seen ANY evidence of it being shot down?! I don't know about the legitimacy of this video, but if it is actual footage of the MH17 coming down, it appears to me that the right engine is on fire. Besides that the plane seems to be in one piece.

Link: http://youtu.be/F-D6OtFrz_8
That's apparently a June 6th incident in which rebels shot down a Kiev military plane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULHihLTpLyg
 

Avala

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Lumiere_du_Code said:
Imagine that you have captured anti-aircraft missile system "Buk". That is:



You climb inside, and there:









What buttons to press? Which handles twist? Understand... ;)
Just press the buttons randomly! Something will happen ;D :lol:
The plane is not downed with that, but great point! :)
 

Joe

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Lumiere_du_Code said:
"Poroshenko announced the availability of satellite imagery space launch rocket brought down Boeing." - Ukrainian media.

Ukraine has no satellites, but have snapshots :perfect: So would immediately and said: CIA was shoved us pictures of Photoshop, we wave your the same as shaking washing powder accusing Syria.

Lethal proof! If with a magnifying glass to examine, it is possible even to make out shoulder straps of the colonel of KGB at the aviatipper-of in the balloon which hasn't got to a shot :D
That's some seriously compelling proof right there! :rotfl: These people have no shame.

So today the Russians claim that they have evidence of an Su-25 flying at the same alt. and path as MH17

The Russian military detected a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the MH17 Boeing on the day of the catastrophe. Kiev must explain why the military jet was tracking the passenger airplane, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.


I would say that that SU-25 and its pilot was not part of the Ukrainian military, even if it was flying the Uki flag. It was there to verify "mission accomplished"

Statistically, a bomb is more likely.

In the last 70 years, 7 commercial airliners have been downed by missiles, while 27 were downed by bombs on board. Most of the shootings down were 'accidental' or contrived to some degree, none of the bombings were, obviously. So if we're talking about deliberate intent to bring down a commercial airliner, then a bomb on board is the preferred method.
 

Possibility of Being

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loreta said:
Kniall said:
Apparently 'Carlos' first popped up in May, giving this interview to RT-Spanish:

http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/127516-amenazar-controlador-espanol-ucrania-crisis

Could somebody please translate that article and video interview?
This is the translation of the article:

A Spanish in Ukraine receive death threats for his opinion about the crisis.


Expressing yourself about Ukraine might bring along a foreign citizen to be force to run from Kiev to save his life. It is the case of a Spanish air controller that was threaten by Maidan.

Carlos who was speaking with RT under the condition to be anonymous tells that he received threats even if he does not have any interest in being a whistler blower. “I have my opinion and my point of vue like anyone with an independent work ( not attach to) to the media neither to any political party or association.”

He told that he had a death threat, to send him to a “certain battalion”, and throw him out of the country. “They asked for my death because I gave personal opinion quiet different then theirs”.

The air controller worked for 5 years in Ukraine, tells that one day he got a visit from the foreign services from an European embassy, who told him that he had to exit his family from the country within 24 hours. “That’s what I did, I send my wife and daughter right away.”

“I did not do anything wrong. I was born in a free country and I lived all my life in a democracy and I can not understand that a person that express his opinion is threaten”, he told.

Concerning the situation of the Ukrainians Carlos thinks that it is impossible for the West and the East to live peacefully. “People hate too much specially in Kiev.” And he adds: “They do not want the conflict to stop because they don’t have anything else to do.”
In the RT video/interview Carlos was apparently talking from Madrid. That was 08 May. Then, between May 8th and 16th, he was back in Ukraine and on the 16th, he twitted from Germany that he'd been accused of spying and had to run away:

_http://jmalvarezblog.blogspot.com.es/2014/05/nuestro-cotrolador-en-kiev-expulsado-de.html

viernes, 16 de mayo de 2014
Nuestro controlador en Kiev expulsado de Ucrania

Nos quedamos sin información auténtica, rigurosa y objetiva. Contrasta que la Junta Nazi haya tomado represalias contra él mientras otros informadores españoles siguen tan panchos por las zonas en conflicto. Por algo será.

Este hombre, español residente en Kiev y controlador aéreo, fue amenazado de muerte por una organización ucraniana que reside en España en un programa de la "socialista" (mejor sería decir nacionalsocialista) cadena radial española SER. Tuvo que sacar a su familia de aquel país y al regresar a su trabajo...

Carlos@spainbuca

Llegué a kiev el martes a las 18:00 horas,me retuvieron hasta el jueves a las 14:00 horas. Me han expulsado del país acusado de instigador y espía, ahora estoy en Alemania.

Querían o trataban de querer juzgarme por atentar contra la seguridad nacional, al final expulsión.

Una vez pueda sacar mis cosas de kiev, haré públicas todas las fotos de lo que pasó desde febrero hasta mayo en la torre de control.
Buena suerte, amigo y gracias por tu información, tan lejana de ese etnocentrismo de pandereta del que hacen gala otros que creen estar por encima del bien y del mal. Se nota que no han aprendido nada de lo que sucede en esta España en ruinas. Gilipollas...
And in July he was back in Kiev working at an ATC again? :huh:

His twitter account has been removed for some reason, but you can still find some of his tweets and others' comments here:
_https://twitter.com/search?q=spainbuca

16 May is still there.

- - -
By the way, another interesting result of the crash:

_http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/after-mh17-france-must-cancel-sale-of-warships-to-russia/

After MH17, France Must Cancel Sale of Warships to Russia

Instead of selling Russia two Mistral-class warships, France should sell them to the U.S. Navy.

By Robert C. O'Brien
July 20, 2014

France should have cancelled its sale of sophisticated amphibious warships to Russia when Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine and annexed the Crimea in March. The shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 by Russian proxies in Ukraine on Thursday now mandates such action by Paris. American political and economic leadership has a role to play in the matter. [...]
 

Keit

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Kniall said:
Approaching Infinity said:
But why move the Ukrainian launchers into the region? To make Russia think it was Kiev? Throw them off the scent, knowing that even if Kiev had BUK systems there, it wouldn't be enough to make people question the official anti-Russian narrative?
It throws Russia off the scent too, keeps everyone focussed on USA vs Russia, and no one suspecting Israel.
Amazing how accurately Mossad (and Israel in general) fits the "rabid dog" description, along with the "wild card".

I wonder if Putin does aware of, or at least suspects that it is Mossad's job. It would be interesting to see how he is going to deal with the situation despite the massive information war.

ADDED: Forgot to mention, that found an interesting news item in Russian.
_http://oko-planet.su/phenomen/phenomennews/249569-istochnik-shest-samoletov-chut-ne-stolknulis-v-nebe-nad-rostovskoy-oblastyu.html
Apparently, on Saturday, in the Rostov area, there was a situation, where 6 commercial aircrafts between 11:20 Moscow time and 11:30 Moscow time were on the same echelon of 10 km. Air traffic controllers suspect, that it was probably due to the closing of Ukraine's air space. The planes were flying to Moscow, Anapa, Yerevan, Tel-Aviv, and Simferopol.

And I found it very symbolic, that there is this Tel-Aviv/Israel name again.
[/quote]

ADDED: Well, apparently, they were successfully thrown off the scent, unless they want it to appear so.

RIA Novosti just published, that they asked two experts, and they have only two main theories for the crash.
_http://ria.ru/world/20140721/1016897744.html#ixzz386jgSrVA
That it was either shut down using Buk missile system, and in this case it could be also a mistake. Or it was shut down using air-to-air missile, and in this case it couldn't be anything else than a deliberate attack. I also saw a part of press conference in Russia, where they make a lot of effort to explain and present evidence to the foreign media that Buk missile system was probably involved.

And there is also this breaking news from RT:
http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/
The Russian military detected a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the MH17 Boeing on the day of the catastrophe. Kiev must explain why the military jet was tracking the passenger airplane, the Russian Defense Ministry said.
Knowing now what happened I find it fascinating, that the option of bomb on board isn't even considered. It's like a perfect example of the principle, that it is often not what is said but what is not said that is indicative of the truth.

MORE ADDED: Could it be, that Ukranian SU-25 was supposed to give a visual confirmation, that MH17 changed its path and that everything was going according to plan? And maybe the pilot gave the ok prematurely (or he was the one to push the button), and that's why MH17 exploded a pit earlier than it was supposed to? Or maybe it was there just to check, since it was a no fly zone, and now Ukrainians can't really admit it, because it would mean disclosing their "bosses".

Maybe they were told to keep silent. And who knows, maybe the pilot saw the plane exploding in front of his eyes.
 

Approaching Infinity

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From Rense:

_http://www.rense.com/general96/MH17.html
Was MH17 Sabotaged By An Israeli
Security Team At Amsterdam
Schiphol Airport?

By Yoichi Shimatsu
Exclusive to Rense
7-20-14

As the only non-European journalist to cover The Hague inquiry into the Amsterdam crash of El Al flight 1862 (October 1992), which destroyed a Biljmeer district apartment complex, I discovered many aspects of the Israeli security set-up at Schipol International Airport and the role of the Mossad intelligence agency in secret operations there, one of Europe’s business transport hubs. This same airport spy network is very likely involved in the recent crash of Malaysian Airlines flight 17 over the Ukraine.

Covering the Biljmeer crash for Japan Playboy, I uncovered the sordid facts of how the official investigation back then was undone by a large network of Israeli intelligence agents who paid hush money to victims’ families, pressured injured firefighters from filing lawsuits over radiation exposure, and suppressed data from the hangar where the wreckage was stored. The crippled El Al cargo jet, leased from UPS, had transported from JFK Airport in New York a secret load of weapons including plutonium, depleted uranium and a bioweapon called mycoplasm in its cargo bay before crashing on an attempt to return to Schipol Airport, in an operation directed by the Israeli intelligence service instead of Dutch flight officials.

Once again, this time in the destruction of MH17, there is an Israeli-connected air crash with political ramifications involving Israeli strategic interests, inside Israel exactly when its military launches an invasion of Gaza and in troubled Ukraine, a supplier of military electronics to the IDF.

Security at Schipol Airport is operated by ICTS, an Israeli-owned airport security company based in The Netherlands founded by former officers of the Shin Beit intelligence agency. Its subsidiaries are also involved in key security functions there, including ProCheck, Ramasso and I-SEC.

The Israeli security company has a record of staging false flag operations, including the September 11, 2001 attacks. ICaTS subsidiary Huntleigh provided passenger and baggage inspection services at Boston Logan Airport, where two of the four jetliners used in the 911 attack originated.

At Schipol Airport on Christmas 2009, ICTS allowed the “Underwear Bomber” Umar Farouk Abdulmutallah armed with explosives to slip past “sniffer” detectors to board a Detroit-bound Northwest flight, an incident that was a boon to Homeland Security and the global war on terrorism.

Initial information, even before the start of an official inquiry into MH17, raise serious questions of whether Israeli intelligence tampered with the flight controls and radar identification (transponder) system of the Malaysian-operated Boeing-777.

- MH17 deviated from the civilian flight path, which should cross close to the exit mouth of the Azov Sea, away from the current battle zone between the Ukraine military and militant ethnic Russian irregulars. Instead its navigation steered the jetliner on a more northerly course in contested airspace, where Ukraine military aircraft conduct both air strikes and troop transport missions, putting the Malaysian Airlines jet into jeopardy.

- The wide-body Boeing-777 jumbo jet is similar in profile to the Antonov (built by Kharkov Aircraft Industries in Ukraine) and Ilyushin (Russian-built) transport craft in service with the Ukraine military and air cargo fleets. At higher altitudes (MH17 was flying at 35,000 feet), the only way from ground level to identify a plane is by a coded radar response from its transponder signal. One possibility was that MH17 was programmed with a false responder code; while another problem could have been confusion with the transponder beam from a nearby Ukraine military craft. A more sinister scenario is the sending of a false ID signal from a ground-based vehicle.

In short, Israeli operatives could have loaded a bomb onto MH17 or used a false responder signal to lure a rebel missile battery to intercept a suspected incoming troop landing. Another issue for investigation, if these scenarios are verified, is the unspoken connection between the Boeing Corporation and the Israeli intelligence services. Boeing would have key data on tampering of any of its aircraft control systems, and both MH17 and MH370 were Boeing-777s.

Israeli intelligence had three possible motives for orchestrating a false flag incident blamed on ethnic Russians or on the Kremlin.

- first, the MH17 crash diverted international media attention from the launch of the Israeli invasion of Gaza, which is a serious rupture of existing peace accords and a massive assault on human rights. Malaysia is an outspoken voice in the UN and the world media on Palestinian rights in Gaza.

- second, Israel, even with the Zionist economic interests in Russia such as BP, has a historical interest in the 45 000-member strong Jewish community in the port of Odessa, which has a large stake in the financial sector, military electronics industry, missile production and weapons factories. PBN and GQR, lobbying organizations controlled by American Jewish neoconservatives, are the most influential force in Ukraine politics.

- third, the destruction of MH17 serves as a warning to the governments of Malaysia and Australia to cease any further investigation into the strong possibility that MH370 was hijacked by the Israeli military. MH370 was carrying engineers, designers, prototypes, specifications and a chip foundry for the world’s smallest microchip, the KL series. The leading edge technology is needed for Israel’s crash program to build a drone army, especially mini-robots capable of infiltrating Iran’s nuclear plants. (This writer has extensively researched a nd uncovered Israeli involvement in the MH370 hijacking at rense.com)

One point of bias that needs to be disclosed is that this writer is a sympathizer of Ukraine independence and opposes Russian intervention. In specific incidents, however, such as the destruction of MH17, one’s preferences must be set aside in pursuit of the facts relevant to the case. The Israeli role in this affair cannot be ignored, especially considering its abiding interests in independent Ukraine. Therefore, the Kiev government should launch an investigation into the possibility of sabotage by an ally so as not to harm& nbsp;its legitimacy by incriminating itself together with Israeli state-sponsored terrorism, legitimate grounds for reprisal by its adversary. A Ukraine that claims to be independent should try to be independent.

As an investigation team approaches the crash site, the real cover-up is yet to begin. The family members and friends of both targeted Malaysian Airlines jetliners are owed the truth and the culprits must be dragged to justice.

Yoichi Shimatsu is a science and technology journalist based in Hong Kong and former editor of The Japan Times Weekly in Tokyo.
Nonsense about MH370, but interesting this was published the day the session was published (the "info" page says it was modified on the 18th, however)...
 

Approaching Infinity

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Keit said:
Kniall said:
Approaching Infinity said:
But why move the Ukrainian launchers into the region? To make Russia think it was Kiev? Throw them off the scent, knowing that even if Kiev had BUK systems there, it wouldn't be enough to make people question the official anti-Russian narrative?
It throws Russia off the scent too, keeps everyone focussed on USA vs Russia, and no one suspecting Israel.
Amazing how accurately Mossad (and Israel in general) fits the "rabid dog" description, along with the "wild card".
Here's my post this reply refers to, from the 7/19/14 session thread:

Laura said:
(Perceval) As in today? How long ago did they decide on it?

A: 3 weeks.

Q: (PoB) It was well organized with Kiev moving the ground to air missile launchers closer...

(L) Yeah, they made a plan, and they moved those launchers in place to confuse the issue. They turned them on so that the radar would be read by the Russian detectors, they planted the bomb...
On June 29 (20 days before the session), the self-defense forces captured anti-aircraft regiment No. A-1402, which had BUK systems. (_http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_29/Donetsk-militia-takes-control-of-Ukrainian-anti-air-installation-1561/) These are the ones they "boasted" about, and which the military allegedly told their bosses they had disabled before leaving, but it's anyone's guess if that was just to save face.

So, I'm wondering if this had something to do with the plan? Mossad could have thought something like: "OK, the militias now have a big anti-aircraft system. So let's blow up a passenger flight over the Donbass, and blame it on them. Since they don't have the experience, we can utilize the global opinion that Russia is directing the militias to imply that they must have had Russian help -- that implicates both of them."

But why move the Ukrainian launchers into the region? To make Russia think it was Kiev? Throw them off the scent, knowing that even if Kiev had BUK systems there, it wouldn't be enough to make people question the official anti-Russian narrative?
 

Altair

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According to Russian General Andrej Kartapolow there war an US military satellite over the south-east Ukraine shortly before the tragedy. I'm wondering if it was just a coincidence or was it there to create a kind of alibi, so that they could later on present faked pictures as evidence (actually Poroshenko was already claiming to have satellite images which "proove" rocket launch). Or was it there to transmit the signal to the bomb in the airplane?


_http://de.ria.ru/society/20140721/269072115.html (German)
 

c.a.

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Keit said:
Kniall said:
Approaching Infinity said:
But why move the Ukrainian launchers into the region? To make Russia think it was Kiev? Throw them off the scent, knowing that even if Kiev had BUK systems there, it wouldn't be enough to make people question the official anti-Russian narrative?
It throws Russia off the scent too, keeps everyone focussed on USA vs Russia, and no one suspecting Israel.
Amazing how accurately Mossad (and Israel in general) fits the "rabid dog" description, along with the "wild card".

I wonder if Putin does aware of, or at least suspects that it is Mossad's job. It would be interesting to see how he is going to deal with the situation despite the massive information war.
I would think that Russian Intelligence, is an agency that is equal (if not more well informed), than all other global spy agency's to what the real circumstance surrounding this mass scale, and character assassination.

And yes Keit i would also be leave that M-H17 could very well have been tampered with, and loaded with a very large cash of some the most powerful you know what.

And that Mossad has agent's (or sleeper cells) in position for such activity, all over the world that could be activated at a drop of dime.

With all the martial perhaps brought in from the black market. There are no check points between borders like old days, with exception of Switzerland, at least in European nations.
So it is wide open for such activity's that can go unnoticed.

This covert activity has been demonstrated, with some the recent mass shooting attack's (as well all know), in the states spooking the US population to conform (via psychological warfare) to give up there gun's through fear, loathing, and by herding population. Via Israel.

What would also be interesting to know is how many hours was M-H17 on the ground before the fatal take off.

Look how many support agency's (catering, baggage handling, fuel restock, cabin cleaners, etc.), all had access to prepare M-H17 for such a long flight to it's destination.
It is like a Circus when they prep these long flight's as they move from one plane to the next. Everyone has there nose to the grind stone, less watching one another.

Also i would think that it is not just one lone nut, but it could have been a number of accomplices, to accomplish the necessary task. "Evil Know no bounds".

But there day is coming.

Edit...1...2
 

Joe

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Along with the Su-25 jet beside MH17 at time of destruction, tapes allegedly depicting Ukrainian rebels admitting they brought down MH17 are proven to be fabricated from different conversations, but more importantly, they were made ONE DAY BEFORE MH17 came down!
 

foofighter

Jedi Council Member
If it was a bomb, and not a missile that hit it, then you'd probably want to have a good look at the tail. In this RT report there is (what looks like) a view of the tail, and to my mind it seems like a piece of metal has been cleanly taken out, at the rivet points (go to 4:48):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw6e0HxLkEE

Does that seem reasonable? If so, would that then have been the first part to have been affected by the bomb?
 

curious_richard

Jedi Master
I have been reading about the 1988 Pan Am Flight 103 ("Lockerbie") bombing. I am thinking that when we learn more about the MH17 wreckage, we might find something in common. For instance, maybe the size and shape of the debris field or the way the airframe parts are damaged.
_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103

The article suggests that the flight data recorders (black boxes) were very useful in helping to put the pieces together. I hope that the MH17 data recorders also give useful data and that the information gets to the public.

In any case, both MH17 and the Lockerbie bombing are truly tragedies of the highest order.
 

foofighter

Jedi Council Member
Here are supposed pictures of the wreckage showing outside shrapnel impacts:
_http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/21/world/europe/wreckage-offers-clues-on-why-flight-17-went-down.html

I'm assuming these pictures must have been faked then?

Edit:
Here's a picture of a typical MAS airplane. The NYT pictures show metal with yellow on the outside. But I can't find where on the plane there is yellow:
_http://cdn.wonderfulengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Mh17-Crash--700x350.jpg
 

axj

Dagobah Resident
China is siding with Russia against Western propaganda:

China Blasts "One-Sided Western Rush To Judge Russia" Over MH17

"The West has successfully put itself in a position to dictate 'political correctness' in international discourse," China exclaims via a Global Times editorial on MH17 on Monday, "those unwilling to work with Western interests will often find themselves in a tough position."

China's first public statement that "The Western rush to judge Russia is not based on evidence or logic," comes on the heels of Vladimir Putin's address last night jabbing the West "no one should not have the right to use this tragedy to achieve selfish political objectives."

China appears to have crossed the line, siding very clearly with Russia as they conclude, "It is yet another example of the power of Western opinion as a political tool."
_http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/china-blasts-one-sided-western-rush-judge-russia-over-mh17
_http://time.com/3011538/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-china-response-mh17-russia/
 
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