Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

Siberia

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I have just read an interesting news about Kolomoisky in Russian, which seems worth sharing here. As you probably remember, Kolomoisky is the Jewish guy who is allegedly responsible for the Odessa massacre on May 2, 2014. He is also the one who threatened to kill Oleg Tsarev and later burnt his house in Dnepropetrovsk.

Here is my translation of the article:

Russian State Duma suggests investigating Kolomoisky's activities in connection with MH 17 crash

Itar Tass, July 23th 2014

The activities of Ukrainian businessman Igor Kolomoisky on the day of Malaysian Boeing crash and in previous days should be the subject of close attention, said Sergei Neverov, vice-speaker of the State Duma, secretary of the General Council of Yedinaya Rossia party, to Russia 24 TV channel.

"In connection with the crash of Malaysian aircraft, it is appropriate to recall the fact that the oligarch Igor Kolomoisky owns a number of Ukrainian airlines: Ukraine International Airlines, Dniproavia, Aerosvit. But what is even more interesting is that he fully funds the activities of Dnepropetrovsk dispatcher services responsible for tracking the tragic voyage and, to a large extent, for the technical support of dispatcher services throughout Ukraine," he said.

Neverov thinks that the oligarch, in fact, not only has a direct impact on the dispatcher services of Ukraine, but he is also able to "give direct instructions to a number of them, including those who must have tracked the tragic flight of Malaysian Boeing on July 17.”

"Actually, Igor Kolomoisky, his activities, as well as any his orders given on July 17 or in the previous days should be the subject of close attention or even international investigation by a commission dealing with the circumstances of Malaysian Boeing crash,” suggested the Duma vice-speaker.

Moreover, as noted by the politician, Kolomoysky has a serious arsenal of weapons and military equipment." Kolomoysky has his own well-equipped armed forces, he certainly has tanks, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, jet-fire systems. And at this point, a question arises, if he also has planes and Buks. I strongly advise the US president and European leaders to carefully look at this," concluded Neverov.
It reminds me of Lumiere_du_Code's post about Kolomoisky and MH 17:

Lumiere_du_Code said:
here "Inside" of 13 July (a few days before the collapse of Boeing). text:
Kolomoysky going to surprise Poroshenko. Something to do with the aircraft.
Edit: spelling and style
 

Lumiere_du_Code

Jedi Council Member

Lumiere_du_Code

Jedi Council Member
in response to a ridiculous fake of the Ukrainian daughter of CIA, on the Internet there was a parody where the agent of security service of Ukraine calls Putin, asking him on responsible for crash of the Boeing, and Putin says that it he brought down the plane, everything occurred exactly as he wanted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNoVfyAywlQ
;)
 

Siberia

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Lumiere_du_Code said:
in response to a ridiculous fake of the Ukrainian daughter of CIA, on the Internet there was a parody where the agent of security service of Ukraine calls Putin, asking him on responsible for crash of the Boeing, and Putin says that it he brought down the plane, everything occurred exactly as he wanted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNoVfyAywlQ
;)
:rotfl: As someone commented below this video, "tomorrow it will be posted on the SBU official website, for sure"
 

asino

Jedi
Perceval said:
I found this image of part of the fuselage, who wants to analyze it? See anything interesting that might contradict Mr NY Times expert's canned BS opinion?
Meanwhile I found the rightful original place for the fragment in your picture. See the black square.
.A
 

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asino

Jedi
Perceval said:
NY times dude said:
the fragments seemed to have entered from a front angle
Really?? And Mr NY Times "expert" knows from what part of the plane these fragments of fuselage came AND what way they are pointing in the images?? I mean, are they rightside up or upside down? It's kind of important for the "front angle" vs "back angle" thing.
I agree that the NYT dude appears to talk straight out of his rear end. Having said that, this kind of forensic analysis is a tough puzzle, quite literally. One should examine other neighbouring fragments, in close detail and with ample time.
Anyway, here are my considerations, for what they are worth and with all possible caveats.
Having identified the original location (see previous post) of the fragment, we can state that
- its vertical orientation corresponds to the original
- right side is aft, left side is forward (in flight direction)
i.e. the views in the two images are compatible.
The fragment has suffered a bend along the horizontal, about one third up the windshields, ripped apart resulting in a relatively clean horizontal cut. This could be caused by a pressure wave from the inside, but the piece could just as well have been bent and ripped off by the hundreds of MPH headwind, or during the freefall, i.e. not directly caused by an internal explosion.

The collection of holes present a puzzle by themselves, although the cluster on the upper left of the fragment looks like exit holes. Some on the right look more like entry, while some appear to be neutral, as if caused by very high velocity objects. BTW ground impact can be safely excluded as cause for the smaller holes. I would rather consider impact with other parts and fragments while the aircraft was dismembering. What I notice is their irregular shape and size. I remember reading that the BUK missile shrapnel is uniformly shaped and sized, in the form of small cylinders or cubes; If that is true, if caused by a BUK the holes could be expected to be of more uniform shape and size as a consequence.

Remember that missile shrapnel can enter the aircraft from one side *and* exit from the other, but assuming a single missile exploding close to the aircraft as culprit, entry and exit holes would be prevalently found on respectively opposite sides of the aircraft body, not randomly mixed as they appear to be in the fragment.

But it can get even more confusing: Imagine a hypothetical missile entering the aircraft fuselage from below before exploding: that would cause its shrapnel to *exit* the aircraft, just as with an on-board bomb.
That’s why, in conclusion, from looking at the fragment image alone I cannot draw any hard conclusions: But then, back to the main point, neither could the NYT dude.

For some context, here is the reconstruction of a civilian DC-9, Itavia Flight 870, shot out of the sky over Ustica by a missile in 1980. Another bungled and covered-up affair. The fragments were retrieved from the bottom of the Mediterranean, so many are missing, but notice the likely place where the missile exploded, towards the front end.
.A
 

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Approaching Infinity

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Siberia said:
I have just read an interesting news about Kolomoisky in Russian, which seems worth sharing here. As you probably remember, Kolomoisky is the Jewish guy who is allegedly responsible for the Odessa massacre on May 2, 2014. He is also the one who threatened to kill Oleg Tsarev and later burnt his house in Dnepropetrovsk.

Here is my translation of the article:
Up on SOTT. Thanks!

http://www.sott.net/article/282474-Russian-State-Duma-suggests-investigating-Kolomoiskys-activities-in-connection-with-MH17-crash
 

seek10

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
It looks US has given its so called evidence of "pro-russian forces did it "
_http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-discloses-intelligence-on-downing-of-malaysian-jet/2014/07/22/b178fe58-11e1-11e4-98ee-daea85133bc9_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop

there is a video in the article with the intercepted communication. we know RT will transcribe it, but some body else wants to do it, go ahead. Some times meanings change over time.
 

axj

Dagobah Resident
All the Western media report that there is an "admission" by a rebel commander that the rebels had a BUK missile system and that it came from Russia:

Exclusive: Ukraine rebel commander acknowledges fighters had BUK missile

(Reuters) - A powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had an anti-aircraft missile of the type Washington says was used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and it could have originated in Russia.

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.

Before the Malaysian plane was shot down, rebels had boasted of obtaining the BUK missiles, which can shoot down airliners at cruising height. But since the disaster the separatists' main group, the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk, has repeatedly denied ever having possessed such weapons.

Since the airliner crashed with the loss of all 298 on board, the most contentious issue has been who fired the missile that brought the jet down in an area where government forces are fighting pro-Russian rebels.

Khodakovsky accused the Kiev authorities for provoking what may have been the missile strike that destroyed the doomed airliner, saying Kiev had deliberately launched air strikes in the area, knowing the missiles were in place.

"I knew that a BUK came from Luhansk. At the time I was told that a BUK from Luhansk was coming under the flag of the LNR," he said, referring to the Luhansk People’s Republic, the main rebel group operating in Luhansk, one of two rebel provinces along with Donetsk, the province where the crash took place.

"That BUK I know about. I heard about it. I think they sent it back. Because I found out about it at exactly the moment that I found out that this tragedy had taken place. They probably sent it back in order to remove proof of its presence," Khodakovsky told Reuters on Tuesday.

"The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence that the volunteers have this technology, through the fault of Russia. It not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians," he said.

"They knew that this BUK existed; that the BUK was heading for Snezhnoye," he said, referring to a village 10 km (six miles) west of the crash site. "They knew that it would be deployed there, and provoked the use of this BUK by starting an air strike on a target they didn’t need, that their planes hadn’t touched for a week."

"And that day, they were intensively flying, and exactly at the moment of the shooting, at the moment the civilian plane flew overhead, they launched air strikes. Even if there was a BUK, and even if the BUK was used, Ukraine did everything to ensure that a civilian aircraft was shot down."

_http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/23/us-ukraine-crisis-commander-exclusive-idUSKBN0FS1V920140723
However, the Guardian seems to be the only one so far that adds other details to this story:

MH17: Ukraine separatist commander 'admits' rebels had Buk missile system
Alexander Khodakovsky reportedly told news agency rebels may have received Buk from Russia, then changes story

A top rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has reportedly said that the armed separatist movement had control of a Buk missile system, which Kiev and western countries say was used to shoot down a Malaysia Airlines plane last week.

Alexander Khodakovsky, who leads the Vostok battalion – one of the main rebel formations – said the rebels may have received the Buk from Russia, in the first such admission by a senior separatist.

"That Buk I know about. I heard about it. I think they sent it back. Because I found out about it at exactly the moment that I found out that this tragedy had taken place. They probably sent it back in order to remove proof of its presence," Khodakovsky told Reuters.

Russian news agencies later said people close to Khodakovsky denied he made the admissions. Khodakovsky himself told Life News, a Russian news agency with links to Moscow's security services, that he was misquoted and had merely discussed "possible versions" with Reuters. Khodakovsky said the rebels "do not have and have never had" a Buk.

As two further Ukrainian fighter jets were shot down, apparently by missiles fired from within Russia, Khodakovsky appeared to imply that MH17 was indeed downed by a missile from the Buk, assuming the interview with Reuters is confirmed. He blamed Ukrainian authorities, however, for allowing civilian jets to fly over its airspace when the rebels had such capabilities.

"The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence the volunteers have this technology, through the fault of Russia," he said. "It not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians."

Other leaders have repeatedly denied the rebels had a Buk, despite photographic and video evidence of one in the area of the crash last Thursday. There are rivalries and hatred between many of the rebel formations and Khodakovsky is believed to be out of favour with Igor Strelkov, the main commander of the Donetsk rebels.

However, his apparent admission about the Buk chimes with evidence on the ground. This week the Guardian also spoke to witnesses who said they saw a missile-launching system that looked like a Buk drive through Torez, near the crash site, last Thursday, a few hours before the plane was downed.

Khodakovsky said he did not know where the missile system had come from but it may have come from Russia. He added the separatists had seized several Buk systems from Ukrainian bases, but none of them were operational.

"I'm not going to say Russia gave these things or didn't give them," he said, according to Reuters. "Russia could have offered this Buk under some entirely local initiative. I want a Buk, and if someone offered me one, I wouldn't turn it down. But I wouldn't use it against something that did not threaten me. I would use it only in circumstances when there was an air attack on my positions, to protect people's lives."

The apparent admission came as the first bodies arrived in the Netherlands, after a long journey from Torez by train to Kharkiv, and then by plane to the Netherlands. Separatists said they loaded 282 bodies on to the train, but Dutch experts suggested the number actually handed over could be much lower. Monitors at the crash site say there are still human remains lying on the ground.

So far, only monitors from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) have visited the site, but in purely reporting function rather than any investigative role.

They were accompanied once by a three-man Dutch forensic team who monitored the transfer of bodies to the train but did not investigate the causes of the crash, and for the past two days by a small Malaysian delegation. There is still no security cordon around the site. The Dutch have taken the leading role in the international investigation, with the Dutch safety board taking charge of the team. On Wednesday, they said unfettered access to the crash site was crucial.

Spokesman Tjibbe Joustra told the Associated Press that around 25 investigators have arrived in Kiev and are analysing information from the crash site, including photographs, satellite images and radar information. However, they have not yet visited the site.

"We haven't yet got guarantees about security for our way of working," said Joustra. "If we go we have to be able to move freely. We hope to be able to get to the site soon."

It is unclear what they are waiting for. The rebels have said they are happy for any investigators to arrive and work at the site, and while the area is unquestionably dangerous given the ongoing military action in the vicinity, it is unlikely to become safer any time soon.

OSCE spokesperson Michael Bociurkiw said his team would do the best they can. "There has been a lot of talk about why there have been so few experts … We again feel that the work that remains to be done should be done by those far better qualified than us, yet in their absence we will continue to do the basic monitoring that we can."

The Dutch safety board also said that early examination of the black boxes from MH17, which have been sent to Britain for decoding, showed no evidence they had been tampered with. The black boxes were handed to a Malaysian delegation earlier this week in Donetsk by the region's self-declared prime minister, Alexander Borodai, who used the occasion to accuse Ukrainian forces of downing the plane.

Also on Wednesday, Ukraine's security council said two of its Su-25 military jets had been shot down, and added that the planes could have been brought down by missiles fired from inside Russia's borders.

"Two of our jets were hit at an altitude of 5,200 metres. According to preliminary information, the missiles were launched from the territory of the Russian Federation," the council said in a statement.

The planes were flying far lower than the altitude above 10,000 metres where MH17 was when it was shot down, but still out of usual range for the Manpad shoulder-launched missiles the rebels are known to possess.

Footage purporting to be from the crash scene of one of the planes showed a group of rebels arriving to find the burning wreckage.

One of them said the pilot had parachuted out before the plane crashed and the men set off to search for him.

_http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/mh17-ukraine-separatists-buk-missile-system
EDIT: In the Russian RIA Nowosti, this commander claims that he has his own recording of the interview which proves that he never said what Reuters published:

_http://ria.ru/world/20140724/1017289584.html
 

axj

Dagobah Resident
It was not just Putin's plane that was in the air not far from MH17:

Indian PM’s plane was only 200km from MH17

NEW DELHI: MH17 was shot down minutes after Air India One flying Prime Minister Narendra Modi back from Frankfurt to Delhi flew out of Ukraine on "Mike 991" — the aerial route farthest from the troubled country's conflict zone, according to The Times of India in its report.

_http://www.thesundaily.my/news/1122567
 

SeekinTruth

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Yeah, I read about the Khodakovsky interview and that later he denied having said what Reuters claimed and told Ria-Novosti he has his own recording of the interview. There's been all sorts of rumors the last few weeks about Khodakovsky being a traitor involved with a secret negotiation/plot with Ukrainian (including Ahkmetov) and Russian oligarchs and others trying to make a deal with the Kiev junta. Some of the rumors say Ahkmetov refused to participate in the plot/secret negotiations. This plot was supposed to be part of the reason Strelkov and his men broke out of Slavyansk and went to Donetsk, supposedly tipped off from Moscow that a plot to sell them out is in the works. Also Khodakovsky was demoted and made a commander subordinate to Strelkov when he got to Donetsk, as for a while he was not taking orders from anyone and doing his own thing with his Vostok battalion. Another rumored accusation was that he was responsible for the self defense militia going to Donetsk airport to recapture it over a month or more ago and supposedly Khodakovsky had told them not to take their MANPADS. They were then attacked from the air and when they were evacuating the wounded with two Kamaz trucks, that's when the Right Sector Nazis had attacked and killed all the injured. Can't really verify any of it and haven't made up my mind about him yet.

This Michael Bociurkiw of OSCE sounds like bad news. He's from an ultra nationalist Ukrainian expat family living in Canada among the fascist/Nazi collaborators who moved there after WWII. One thing that may be good news is that a Russian aviation investigating organization will be participating in the investigation of the black boxes in Britain - I was very dubious that the UK was going to be doing it.

All in all, the mainstream media's (including this latest from Reuters) framing of the Malaysian flight MH17 tragedy is still trying to focus everything on the BUK missile narrative, while still there's no credible (never mind conclusive) evidence that there was any missile involved at all, no matter who was supposed to have fired it. Very suspicious, and nothing is pointing to a thorough and objective investigation being in the works.
 

seek10

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
axj said:
It was not just Putin's plane that was in the air not far from MH17:
Indian PM’s plane was only 200km from MH17
NEW DELHI: MH17 was shot down minutes after Air India One flying Prime Minister Narendra Modi back from Frankfurt to Delhi flew out of Ukraine on "Mike 991" — the aerial route farthest from the troubled country's conflict zone, according to The Times of India in its report.
_http://www.thesundaily.my/news/1122567
All this points to ridiculousness of pentagon argument "pro-russian militants used missile to down MH17". There is no way pro-russian militants know who is on which flight as they are not officials. Route is common one to south asia. Pro-russians doing it, is suicidal and contradictory, when they took arms to survive the kiev's oppression. Lot of psychopathic wishful ness in the pentagon argument.

These articles saying "this flight is here and he is in it" is only helps to incite drama and feed the same pentagon argument. Even if Russian officials gives this information to pro-russian militants, are we supposed to think pro-russian ( aka barbarians, terrrorists) are monkeys with missiles and fire recklessly, so we need pentagon help ?. Are we expected to believe Russians will help kill Indian PM who is another BRICS nation and has LOT of close relations for decades ?.
 

seek10

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
One more to drama as if universe is tweeting back

http://rt.com/news/175264-algeria-plane-crash-ah5017/

An Air Algerie Airbus (Image from wikipedia.org)
3.6K2K1

An Air Algerie flight carrying 110 passengers and six crew members disappeared from radar early on Thursday morning between Burkina Faso and Algeria. CCTV and Algerian Ennahar TV report it went down in Niger.

A spokeswoman for Spanish private airline company, Swiftair, confirmed that it had lost contact with one of its planes operated by Air Algerie on Thursday. The plane was an Air Algerie MD-83, flight AH5017.

"Air navigation services have lost contact with an Air Algerie plane Thursday flying from Ouagadougou to Algiers, 50 minutes after take-off,"the airline said.

Swiftair said that there had been “no contact” with the missing aircraft since.

French Transport Minister, Frederic Cuvillier, told reporters that it was “likely many” French passengers were on board the flight.

"There are 110 passengers and 6 crew traveling on the plane, of which four are pilots and two cabin crew," the Swiftair statement confirmed.

Meanwhile, an Algerian aviation source, who wished to remain anonymous, told AFP that “the plane was not far from the Algerian frontier when the crew was asked to make a detour because of poor visibility and to prevent the risk of collision with another aircraft on the Algiers-Bamako route.”

The number of French citizens on board the plane remains unconfirmed. A representative for the airline stated that, according to passenger lists, some 50 French nationals were traveling on the route, while French and Spanish media are suggesting the number may be even higher.

“We are totally mobilized, both in Paris, and at crisis centers in Algiers and Ouagadougou, where our embassies are in constant contact with local authorities and the airline,” the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement on their website.

Two French fighter jets have been dispatched to help locate the flight, a French army spokesperson told Reuters.

"Two Mirage 2000 jets based in Africa were dispatched to try and locate the Air Algerie plane that disappeared on Thursday." Gilles Jaron said. "They will search an area from its last known destination along its probable route," he added.
 

alkhemst

Jedi Council Member
Just saw this front cover of TIME, the article itself is all blame of Putin and no concrete facts presented.


Also, was reminded of George H. W. Bush on the Iran Air Flight 655, a civilian airline that was shot down by US Navy saying: "I will never apologize for the United States — I don't care what the facts are... I'm not an apologize-for-America kind of guy". The message I get from both those linked things is it's good to blame others, take no responsibility, never apologize and disregard facts when they get in the way... Besides being dangerous, it's extremely infantile behavior / mindset
 

seek10

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
seek10 said:
One more to drama as if universe is tweeting back

http://rt.com/news/175264-algeria-plane-crash-ah5017/
Now this plane AH5017 is confirmed crashed.
 
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