Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine


FOTCM Member
alkhemst said:
Just saw this front cover of TIME, the article itself is all blame of Putin and no concrete facts presented.
It looks very close to the possible front cover of TIME predicted by Joe Quinn lately

alkhemst said:
Also, was reminded of George H. W. Bush on the Iran Air Flight 655, a civilian airline that was shot down by US Navy saying: "I will never apologize for the United States — I don't care what the facts are... I'm not an apologize-for-America kind of guy". The message I get from both those linked things is it's good to blame others, take no responsibility, never apologize and disregard facts when they get in the way... Besides being dangerous, it's extremely infantile behavior / mindset
Yeah, and it sounds very similar to Obama's 'this may be a terrible tragedy' about MH 17.
Some detailed photos of the piece presumably originating from below the left front window:


In particular:


I am no expert but, assuming the fragment isn't fake, these holes seem like done by some explosive shrapnels, coming from outside. Such a shrapnel would penetrate the outer "skin" of a plane and then explode in contact with the tougher inner material. That would explain why the inner layer seems pushed inside and the outer layer - outside. Looking at photos of a B-777 i see no way the shrapnels could come from a bomb placed under a wing. If it's possible at all, the angle would make the damage look different IMHO. Either it was a missile, or a very fancy bomb capable of ejecting itself to the front of the moving plane and then exploding.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
seek10 said:
seek10 said:
One more to drama as if universe is tweeting back
Now this plane AH5017 is confirmed crashed.
Things like this come in "groups". Hopefully this third plane is the last one and does not need another one following.


The Living Force
According to this article, NATO held exercises in the area when Flight 17 went down?

Joe Biden’s son, oligarch fingered in MH17 crash

NATO held an exercise code named «BREEZE 2014» that ended in Black Sea. The exercise, which included the use of electronic warfare and electronic intelligence aircraft such as the Boeing EA-18G Growler and the Boeing E3 Sentry Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS), coincided with the shootdown of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 in eastern Ukraine, some 40 miles from the Russian border.

NATO ships and aircraft had the Donetsk and Lugansk regions under total radar and electronic surveillance.

MH-17 was shot down over a region where Russian-speaking separatist forces have been battling against the alliance of the Ukrainian armed forces and a private mercenary force answerable to a Ukrainian-Israeli billionaire oligarch.

About 200 U.S. Army personnel normally assigned to bases in Germany were in Ukraine during the time of the MH-17 fly-over. They were participating in NATO exercise RAPID TRIDENT II. Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense led the exercise.

BREEZE included the AEGIS-class guided missile cruiser USS Vela Gulf. AEGIS cruisers’ AN/SPY 1 radar has the ability to track all aircraft over a large region.

The USS Vela Gulf was able to track Malaysian Airlines 17 over the Black Sea and any missiles fired at the plane. U.S. AWACS electronic intelligence (ELINT) aircraft were also flying over the Black Sea region at the time of the MH-17 flyover of Ukraine. Growler aircraft have the capability to jam radar systems in all surface-to-air threats.

The announcement of U.S. BREEZE and RAPID TRIDENT II military maneuvers came on May 21, 2014, and were announced on the website operated by Vice President Joe Biden’s office. Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, is a newly-named director of the Ukrainian natural gas and oil company Burisma Holdings, Ltd., owned by Kolomoisky, an Ukrainian-Israeli.

Kolomoisky has raised his own private mercenary army, and some say they even own the BUK missiles allegedly used in the shootdown of MH-17. Kolomoisky is the Governor of Dnipropetrovsk oblast in eastern Ukraine.

Burisma is part of Kolomoisky’s large umbrella corporation called Privat Group. He is estimated to be the second-richest person in Ukraine, also has strong connections inside Kiev’s Borispol International Airport, where it has been reported that Ukrainian Interior Ministry troops stormed the air traffic control tower shortly before MH-17 was shot down.

A Spanish air traffic controller, who possessed knowledge of the Ukrainian Interior Ministry’s involvement in the shootdown of MH-17, has reportedly had his life threatened. The Spanish controller, identified only as «Carlos,» understood that the shootdown of MH-17 was carried out by supporters of former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko and Interior Minister Arsen Avakov. Kolomoisky is a political ally of both Tymoshenko and Avakov.

Kolomoisky’s forces are armed with advanced weaponry, obtained both from Ukrainian weapons inventories and from purchases on the black market. Kolomoisky’s forces, comprising Ukrainian regular military personnel; neo-Nazi units from west Ukraine, and foreign mercenaries, including Georgians, Romanians, and mercenaries from Sweden and Germany.

His troops were also responsible for the deadly May 1 fire-bombing of the trade union building in Odessa and burning people alive inside the Mariupol Police Station on May 9.

Georgians who serve in Kolomoisky’s Army have reportedly been trained in the use of BUK missile systems previously sold by Ukraine to Georgia under the presidency of Mikheil Saakashvili. Kolomoisky has utilized ex-President Saakashvili’s «consulting services» in Dnipropetrovsk in the military and political campaign against the breakaway people’s republics of Donetsk and Lugansk.

Kolomoisky chooses to «command» his army from the safety of Switzerland.

Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and Kolomoyskyi will bear responsibility for their crimes, Russian Investigative Committee chief Alexander Bastrykin said Thursday.

“Avakov and Kolomoyskyi aren’t going anywhere. Sooner or later they will be held accountable for their criminal responsibility according to the norms of international law,” Bastrykin said.

As events in Ukraine continue to unravel, Russia is launching criminal cases against both individuals. The Russian Investigative Committee identified 2,700 victims in the criminal cases in the Ukrainian crisis, accusing Avakov and Kolomoyskyi of organizing unlawful massacres.

The testimonies came shortly after Russia issued arrest warrants for Avakov and Kolomoyskyi on charges of organizing murders and abductions, using banned means and methods of warfare, and preventing journalists from entering in the country.

Russian courts sentenced both Avakov and Kolomoyskyi in absentia in early July with the decision driven by the threat the two pose to regional security.

The shooting down of MH-17 drew the attention of the world’s media away from a ground invasion of Gaza.


The Living Force
clarabell said:
Ukraine PM resigns!!
Yeah - there was a scuffle in Rada few days ago and maybe Yats was punched few times (wishful thinking on my side)... Now champ Klitchko is going to replace him and then we will see who will dare to challenge him! Hoping for some knockouts there :-[

Approaching Infinity

FOTCM Member
angelburst29 said:
According to this article, NATO held exercises in the area when Flight 17 went down?

Joe Biden’s son, oligarch fingered in MH17 crash
Original source, writer, is Wayne Madsen: _ (His site has a paywall, so couldn't find it there.)


Dagobah Resident
Yozilla said:
Yeah - there was a scuffle in Rada few days ago and maybe Yats was punched few times (wishful thinking on my side)... Now champ Klitchko is going to replace him and then we will see who will dare to challenge him! Hoping for some knockouts there :-[
At least, Klitchko is well qualified in the knockouts department. ;)
BBC Russian video report, published and later deleted by BBC itself:


Transcript of the BBC Video Report

DPR Representative: Here it is.

Olga Ivshina, BBC: The black boxes from the crashed Boeing are finally being transferred into the hands of the experts. However, how much can they tell us?

The recorders logged the coordinates and the heading of the aircraft at the time of the incident and may have recorded the sound of the explosion. However, they will not tell us what exactly caused the explosion.

The inhabitants of the nearby villages are certain that they saw military aircraft in the sky shortly prior to the catastrophe. According to them, it actually was the jet fighters that brought down the Boeing.

Eyewitness #1: There were two explosions in the air. And this is how it broke apart. And [the fragments] blew apart like this, to the sides. And when …

Eyewitness #2: … And there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everybody saw it.

Eyewitness #1: Yes, yes. It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was proceeding underneath, below the civilian one.

Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. They came from the sky. Then this plane made a sharp turn-around like this. It changed its trajectory and headed in that direction [indicating the direction with her hands].

Olga Ivshina, BBC: The Ukrainian government rejects this version of events. They believe that the Boeing was shot down using a missile from a “BUK” complex that came in from the direction of Russia.

Vitaliy Naida, Department of Counterintelligence of SBU [Ukrainian Security Service]: This was a BUK M1 system from which the aircraft was shot down. It came to Ukraine early in the morning on the 17th of July. It was delivered by a tow truck to the city of Donetsk. After that, it was redeployed from Donetsk, as part of a column of military equipment, to the area of the city of Torez, to the area of Snezhnoye, to the area of Pervomaisk.

Olga Ivshina, BBC: The Ukrainian Security Service has published photographs and a video, which, in its opinion, prove that the Boeing was shot down with a “BUK” missile. We attempted to verify these photographs and information at the location.

One of the photographs showed a landscape not far from the city of Torez, on which smoke could be seen coming from the presumed location of the missile’s launch. We attempted to find this location, and it appears that we were successful.

We are now on the outskirts of the city of Torez. Behind me, approximately five kilometres away, is the city of Snezhnoye. And the landscape here matches the landscape that we can see on the photograph published by the Ukrainian Security Service.

To find the place from which the smoke was allegedly coming from, we adopted as markers these three poplars and the group of trees. Presumably, this is the place that can be seen on the photograph published by the SBU. And here are our markers: the three solitary poplars and the small group of trees in the distance.

The smoke that can be seen on the photograph came from somewhere over there [pointing behind her], behind my back. The SBU believes that this is a trace coming from the launch of a “BUK” missile.

However, it must be noted that there are here, approximately in the same place, the Saur-Mogila memorial, near which the fighting continues almost unabated, and a coalmine. It turns out that the smoke with the same degree of probability could have been coming from any of these locations.

Having circled around the nearby fields, we were unable to find any traces of a missile launch. Nor did the local inhabitants that we encountered see any “BUK” either.

At the ruins of an apartment building in the city of Snezhnoye, the topic of the jet fighters that may have been escorting civilian aircraft comes up again. A bomb dropped from above took away the lives of eleven civilians here.

Sergey Godovanets, Commander of the Militia of the city of Snezhnoye: They use these civilian aircraft to hide behind them. It is only now that they stopped flying over us – but, usually, civilian aircraft would always fly above us. And they hide [behind them]. [The experience in] Slavyansk had demonstrated that they would fly out from behind a civilian aircraft, bomb away, and then hide, once again, behind the civilian aircraft and fly away.

Olga Ivshina, BBC: The commander of the local militia emphasizes that they have no weaponry capable of shooting down a jet fighter [flying] at a significant height. However, he says that if such weaponry were to appear, they would have tried to.

Sergey Godovanets: If we know that it is not a civilian aircraft, but a military one, then – yes.

Olga Ivshina, BBC: So, could the Boeing have been shot down by the militias that had mistaken it for a military aircraft? There is as yet no unequivocal confirmation of either this or any other version [of what took place]. The international experts are just beginning their work with the information obtained from the crashed airliner. It now appears that it is difficult to overstate the importance of this investigation. Olga Ivshina, BBC.
Witnesses speak about a jet fighter, two explosions and fragments being thrown in various directions. External explosion of a missile alone seem unlikely to blow a plane into parts in the air, so maybe it was both a pre-installed bomb and the missile shot from the fighter. The missile would create a "proof" for the ground-air shotdown scenario.


Funny that there seems to be not one eyewitness report of an ascending smoke plume.
Coming from a BUK especially, which appears to leave a sizeable one behind it.
All the eyewitness mention is one or two explosions, the military jet, the airliner breaking apart, but nothing about an exhaust plume???


Padawan Learner
Why did they sent the black boxes just to Britain? Doesn't sound good.
Was there any pressure?
I'm sure we will not receive any reliable information. :cry:


The Living Force
Approaching Infinity said:
angelburst29 said:
According to this article, NATO held exercises in the area when Flight 17 went down?

Joe Biden’s son, oligarch fingered in MH17 crash
Original source, writer, is Wayne Madsen: _ (His site has a paywall, so couldn't find it there.)

The same article is located here:


Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Here's a great article that gathers a lot of factual evidence. Maybe one for SOTT?


FOTCM Member
Inquorate said:
Here's a great article that gathers a lot of factual evidence. Maybe one for SOTT?
No mention of Mossad, so they are missing a big piece of the puzzle. ;)

Actually, this commenter (youricarma) makes much more sense:

I am still not an 100% convinced it was a missile that hit flight MH17.

Amsterdam Schiphol airport functions as a hub for Europe and the rest of the world. Many people have been on that airport just to transfer to an
other flight, continuing their journey. The security of this airport, also the training of new personal, is handled by the Israelis/Mossad. Of course Mossad isn't the only spy agency present in the Netherlands. You can name the whole alphabet soup with them. Did you know that the Neterlands is the country with the most phonetaps on their citizens?

So now you can see that since Schiphol Airport is under complete zionst control makes it the ideal spot to shuffle some bomb on a certain plane.

Underwear Bomber False Flag - Fellow Passenger Testifies

Escobar: " ... a murky security procedure at Amsterdam's Schiphol airport - where security is operated by ICTS, an Israeli company based in The Netherlands and founded by former officers from the Israeli Shin Bet intel agency."

FROM: A chessboard drenched in blood, 23 July 2014, by Pepe Escobar


The Force is Strong With This One

This theory reminds me the Titanic story...
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