Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

angelburst29

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Another article that states a training exercise was taking place when the Flight 17 crashed.

In the law enforcement agencies of Ukraine there is a version that Boeing was shot down during an exercise
_http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://ria.ru/world/20140725/1017459906.html

As reported in one of the law enforcement agencies of Ukraine, the commander of 156th air defense missile regiment was ordered to carry out training of combat crews to provide cover for ground troops group in the suburbs of Donetsk.

KIEV, July 25 - RIA Novosti. On the day of the disaster Malaysian airliner in Ukraine Ukrainian air defense units of the armed forces conducted training on working with the removal of the lock system of launching missiles, an emergency situation during it could be the cause of the tragedy with Boeing, told RIA Novosti source in one of law enforcement agencies in Ukraine.

"July 17 commander 156th anti-aircraft missile regiment was ordered to carry out the training of combat crews to provide cover for ground troops group in the suburbs of Donetsk - deploy battalions, wiring work goals and perform the whole algorithm in tracking and destruction of conditional goals missile SAM" Buk-M1 "- told the agency.

According to him, despite the fact that the battery commanders were given the keys to conduct razblokirovochnye rockets, real rocket launch 9M38M1 was not provided.

"To participate in a training session in Dnipropetrovsk airbase Kulbakino 229 Brigade Combat Aviation in Nikolayev were sent two Su-25. Before their task was to conduct aerial reconnaissance and identify control objectives within a concentration of ATO grouping west of Donetsk" - said the source .

"Upon entering one of the aircraft in the detection zone SAM" Buk "he was taken to support combat crew battery located near the settlement Zaroschenskoe. Apparently, in a tragic accident after a while Malaysian Boeing flight routes and Su-25, despite the difference in levels, matched and merged on the screen at one major point that was fatal to the civil side - at the moment of convergence targets at one azimuth tracking system automatically rebuilds of doing that which has the largest area, "- he said.

The source could not explain the reason for the unauthorized missile launch. "This issue is SBU, which are about half nine in the evening took the battery commander with the crew," - he said, adding that no data on the proceedings.
 

Keit

Ambassador
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Well, apparently, the "Black box findings consistent with missile blast":
_http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-black-box-findings-consistent-with-blast/

Unreleased data from a black box retrieved from the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in Ukraine show findings consistent with the plane's fuselage being hit multiple times by shrapnel from a missile explosion, CBS News correspondent Mark Phillips reports.

"It did what it was designed to do," a European air safety official told CBS News, "bring down airplanes."

The official described the finding as "massive explosive decompression."
Perhaps I am not getting something, or the wording of the statement is being vague on purpose, but couldn't "massive explosive decompression" result from the bomb on board as well?
 

asino

Jedi
Keit said:
[...]The official described the finding as "massive explosive decompression."
Perhaps I am not getting something, or the wording of the statement is being vague on purpose, but couldn't "massive explosive decompression" result from the bomb on board as well?
Yes, if the bomb blows a hole in the fuselage. However, with a bomb, the "massive explosive decompression" would be immediately preceded by a huge spike in pressure, of short duration. The FDR should record both. Maybe the official is not telling all (yet).
.A
 

Joe

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Analysing pieces of the fuselage can't produce anything conclusive, but just to further counter the NY Times guy's analysis that "shows shrapnel from the front"...from where do you think the shrapnel came that made most of these holes?
 

Attachments

foofighter

Jedi Council Member
Perceval said:
Analysing pieces of the fuselage can't produce anything conclusive, but just to further counter the NY Times guy's analysis that "shows shrapnel from the front"...from where do you think the shrapnel came that made most of these holes?
To me it looks like most of the holes have the metal bent to the outside, so logically the impact would have been from the inside.
 

Siberia

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foofighter said:
Perceval said:
Analysing pieces of the fuselage can't produce anything conclusive, but just to further the counter the NY Times guy's analysis shows "shrapnel from the front"...from where do you think the shrapnel came that made most of these holes?
To me it looks like most of the holes have the metal bent to the outside, so logically the impact would have been from the inside.
It seems that there are two layers of material: the outer layer looks definitely bent to the outside, but as for the inner layer, it's hard for me to judge. Here is another picture of the same piece, fwiw (it can be significantly enlarged, if you click it twice):



Edit: or just push the "actual size" button :)
 

Altair

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I was translating Niall's SOTT article Asymmetric Warfare: MH17 False-Flag Terror and the 'War' on Gaza into German and was wondering about the role of the ukrainian jet fighter which was (according to russian radar installations) tracking the MH17. What was the purpose to intercept MH17? As far as I know all the planes have automatic responders which send a kind of signal to either radar installation or other planes and by means of which every plane can be identified. So the ukrainian militaries must have known that it was a Malaysian airliner. So why send a jet fighter?
Then it came into my mind: perhaps somebody wanted they to simulate a missile attack by jet fighter? Somebody who knew that the theory of the rebels shooting down the jet could be easily disproved. Somebody who knew that russian radar installations track every movement in the air and that all the traces would lead then to Kiew and not back to Schiphol or Mossad. Was it Mossad's protective measure? What do you think?
 

Pashalis

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Altair said:
I was translating Niall's SOTT article Asymmetric Warfare: MH17 False-Flag Terror and the 'War' on Gaza into German and was wondering about the role of the ukrainian jet fighter which was (according to russian radar installations) tracking the MH17. What was the purpose to intercept MH17? As far as I know all the planes have automatic responders which send a kind of signal to either radar installation or other planes and by means of which every plane can be identified. So the ukrainian militaries must have known that it was a Malaysian airliner. So why send a jet fighter?
Then it came into my mind: perhaps somebody wanted they to simulate a missile attack by jet fighter? Somebody who knew that the theory of the rebels shooting down the jet could be easily disproved. Somebody who knew that russian radar installations track every movement in the air and that all the traces would lead then to Kiew and not back to Schiphol or Mossad. Was it Mossad's protective measure? What do you think?
Or they wanted the jet as a second option there, in case the bomb in the plane does not explode or does not explode damaging enough...
"To be on the save side" so to say?
 

A Jay

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Pashalis said:
Altair said:
I was translating Niall's SOTT article Asymmetric Warfare: MH17 False-Flag Terror and the 'War' on Gaza into German and was wondering about the role of the ukrainian jet fighter which was (according to russian radar installations) tracking the MH17. What was the purpose to intercept MH17? As far as I know all the planes have automatic responders which send a kind of signal to either radar installation or other planes and by means of which every plane can be identified. So the ukrainian militaries must have known that it was a Malaysian airliner. So why send a jet fighter?
Then it came into my mind: perhaps somebody wanted they to simulate a missile attack by jet fighter? Somebody who knew that the theory of the rebels shooting down the jet could be easily disproved. Somebody who knew that russian radar installations track every movement in the air and that all the traces would lead then to Kiew and not back to Schiphol or Mossad. Was it Mossad's protective measure? What do you think?
Or they wanted the jet as a second option there, in case the bomb in the plane does not explode or does not explode damaging enough...
"To be on the save side" so to say?
That was my impression as well, just a little insurance in case plan A fell through.
 

Altair

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Pashalis said:
Altair said:
I was translating Niall's SOTT article Asymmetric Warfare: MH17 False-Flag Terror and the 'War' on Gaza into German and was wondering about the role of the ukrainian jet fighter which was (according to russian radar installations) tracking the MH17. What was the purpose to intercept MH17? As far as I know all the planes have automatic responders which send a kind of signal to either radar installation or other planes and by means of which every plane can be identified. So the ukrainian militaries must have known that it was a Malaysian airliner. So why send a jet fighter?
Then it came into my mind: perhaps somebody wanted they to simulate a missile attack by jet fighter? Somebody who knew that the theory of the rebels shooting down the jet could be easily disproved. Somebody who knew that russian radar installations track every movement in the air and that all the traces would lead then to Kiew and not back to Schiphol or Mossad. Was it Mossad's protective measure? What do you think?
Or they wanted the jet as a second option there, in case the bomb in the plane does not explode or does not explode damaging enough...
"To be on the save side" so to say?
Indeed. In either cases the traces would lead to Kiew since the missile launch would have been easily detected by russian radars.
 

clarabell

The Force is Strong With This One
Remember Cor Pan who posted photo of plane before boarding at Schipoll whilst joking if the plane goes missing this is what it looks like? His photo seems to indicate that the flight registration was 9M-MRC? The plane that crashed in Ukraine was 9M-MRD? Weird. Sorry can't seem to attach photo, can google it.
 

aragorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Veteranstoday have published an interesting article today here:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/27/notes-on-mh17/

I'm not sure what to make of it, especially since the information is quite unorganized, but they do support the theory of a bomb onboard and the Zionist angle. In the article there's also a video allegedly showing Russian satellite footage of the MH17 crash. In it, you see a hot trail (showing white in the video) going from left to right, nothing else. It supposedly is evidence for Kolomoisky's troops firing at the MH17. I don't know how someone has come to this conclusion, but if true, I came to think of the following scenario:

As the article points out, there are no eye witnesses seeing the smoke trail of a missile. If the Russians know that there was no missile, that it must have been a bomb, then why would they publish this unclear video evidence? Are they giving an "out" for the real guilty ones (perhaps Mossad), setting up Kolomoisky to take all the blame?

Just speculating... :cool2:
 

Voyageur

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Aragorn said:
Veteranstoday have published an interesting article today here:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/27/notes-on-mh17/

I'm not sure what to make of it, especially since the information is quite unorganized, but they do support the theory of a bomb onboard and the Zionist angle. In the article there's also a video allegedly showing Russian satellite footage of the MH17 crash. In it, you see a hot trail (showing white in the video) going from left to right, nothing else. It supposedly is evidence for Kolomoisky's troops firing at the MH17. I don't know how someone has come to this conclusion, but if true, I came to think of the following scenario:

As the article points out, there are no eye witnesses seeing the smoke trail of a missile. If the Russians know that there was no missile, that it must have been a bomb, then why would they publish this unclear video evidence? Are they giving an "out" for the real guilty ones (perhaps Mossad), setting up Kolomoisky to take all the blame?

Just speculating... :cool2:
Interesting.

As for the jet fighter, it seems to me if a bomb was placed, a timer alone would not be precise enough, given the "time" variability of a planes flight. If it was infused with an altimeter switch, this might account for the drop to 33,000. The jet may also have played a role as a proximity trigger, given that traditional remote signals, unless by satellite (risky), would not work. Some type of signal from a jet fighter however, could be a factor.
 

Yozilla

The Living Force
Aragorn said:
Veteranstoday have published an interesting article today here:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/27/notes-on-mh17/
I red this piece also. What caught my eye is this:
It isn’t just the blogger amateurs that make things up. We are still faced with a bomb on a plane, put there in Schip(h)ol Airport. We now have evidence of “salted” wreckage being hauled in. This is the funny part, a real ground to air missile may, at best, put about a pound, two at max, of steel balls and small parts into a plane. Here is a quote from VT editor, Colonel James Hanke, an actual expert on air defense systems:

“From the examination of ‘recently found’ pieces of wreckage, it looks like they fired an ICBM at the plane, perhaps one with a 53 Studebaker strapped to the top. Blast patterns on what appears to be ‘salted’ wreckage indicates a warhead of several thousand pounds.”
Wright below is a photo Perceval posted here which shows piece of plane with metal bent to outside...

Well if you want to cover all tracks you would engineer someone else to be blamed (like Kiev for example - if Russians manage to defend themselves). So you would trick them to activate BUK systems somehow , and some war dogs in field to launch a missile to ultimately cover implanted bomb explosion. There were some claims, besides, VT that BUK rocket's isn't sufficient to take down big airliner in which it would be good only for hiding the footsteps. Interesting is also that junta supposedly started an major offensive today, with only one goal - to capture the site of crash - nor LNR or DNR. And today was supposed for Dutch experts team to start investigation there... Hell of a job!

P.S Hm, if i remember correctly first reactions from Moscow and Kiev were blaming each other for downing the airliner, so it could very well be that neither of them fired the missile (Russians or federalists especially),,, Shortly after Putin stop blaming Kiev, maybe after some intelligence reports...
 
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