Mass Migration - a plan, or just a consequence of some other plan

There is something odd in the media treatment of these waves of refugees, the use of the word "migrant".
According to the online Oxford dictionary, a migrant is:
a person who moves from one place to another, especially in order to find work
the other definition being
a bird or an animal that moves from one place to another according to the season
The related words we were most familiar with before were emigrant and immigrant.
Using "migrant" instead of "refugee" is possibly a semantic trick to frame the debate were the causes are not discussed. "Migrant" is more neutral in the sense that it doesn't convey that something has been done to these people.
 
Pashalis said:
It seems like germany want's "to team op with russia" now regarding syria:

http://southfront.org/syria-germany-leaving-the-ranks-of-the-us-alliance-against-russia/

I think it is likely that it is directly related to the latest happenings regarding the refugee crisis.
I have a hard time to believe that germany is really doing that out of his own interest.
Maybe they received an order from their masters to play nice with russia, so that they can later blame something on the "bad russians"?

Pretty interesting development for sure. I've often gotten the sense that Germany is being 'pushed from behind' in complying with US mandates and that there's not necessarily a complete alignment of interests with the US, even at the top. The refugee crisis is hitting Germany hard (as well as all the EU states that it preys off of) so perhaps this move relates more to a basic survival of their predatory existence?

The US puppet masters created ISIS, however Putin can't quite come out and say this. He and his team can come close though and work in other ways that are effective. They can skirt the surface and point out the Unites States ineffectiveness in dealing with ISIS and even drop hints like Lavrov did the other day when he said that the US knows ISIS positions but refuses to target them. But the real weakness from the US is in how they profess to want to defeat ISIS, and how 'fighting terrorism' is basically what they do. :rolleyes: So here comes Russia with a real plan to dismantle ISIS and when the US disparages them over it, it just makes them look ridiculous. And it shows their hand. I think this may also allow other countries to join in with Russia too since 'ISIS needs to be defeated'. But it's also likely that there will be covert blowback, so we could be seeing some of that as well.
 
mkrnhr said:
There is something odd in the media treatment of these waves of refugees, the use of the word "migrant".
According to the online Oxford dictionary, a migrant is:
a person who moves from one place to another, especially in order to find work
the other definition being
a bird or an animal that moves from one place to another according to the season
The related words we were most familiar with before were emigrant and immigrant.
Using "migrant" instead of "refugee" is possibly a semantic trick to frame the debate were the causes are not discussed. "Migrant" is more neutral in the sense that it doesn't convey that something has been done to these people.
I think you are right, and migrant covers different kinds of migration. In "What is Human Migration" http://www.nationalgeographic.com/xpeditions/lessons/09/g68/migrationguidestudent.pdf from 2005, It begins "Migration (human) is the movement of people from one place in the world to another for the purpose of taking up permanent or semipermanent residence, usually across a political boundary. An example of "semipermanent residence" would be the seasonal movements of migrant farm laborers. People can either choose to move ("voluntary migration") or be forced to move ("involuntary migration")"

Among the types of migration they mention: internal migration, external migration, emigration, immigration, population transfer (also involuntary or forced migration), impelled migration (also reluctant or imposed migration), step migration, chain migration (results in migration fields), return migration (also circular migration) and seasonal migration.

People who migrate can, according to this guide be of various types: emigrant, immigrant, refugee, internally displaced person (IDP) and migration stream (involves a group migration).

For an idea of the net migration in the world there is this from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_migration)
Net_migration_rate_world.PNG
The data are from 2011, so it is a bit old. For the areas that are grey there is no data. Blue is positive, orange negative, and green is stable.
 
mkrnhr said:
"Migrant" is more neutral in the sense that it doesn't convey that something has been done to these people.

Yes, but there is another aspect there. Reading the comments of other people I can see that many people do not consider them to be refugees because in this step of their migration, technically, they are not.

Logic is that they were refugees when they escaped from Syria to Turkey, because they were fleeing from war. But from the moment, when they left Turkey and went towards Germany they are migrants, because there is no war in Turkey with ISIS, so they are not escaping from war, but are just escaping from poverty - so they are migrants.

And also, many people say that if they are really refugees, they would seek asylum in Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, wherever, but no, they all want to go to Germany or Sweden, or some other rich European country. So they are not running for their lives, but are running for social benefits, more money, etc.

Which technically is true, but so what? We would all want to live in places with better conditions. That's why many people from Balkans are emigrating towards western Europe. Why would Syrians or Iraqis be any different? Ah, yes. They are Muslims, they will destroy our Christian/European values. :rolleyes:

And you can also say that nowadays people from ex-Yugoslavia are emigrating to EU just because they want better life. Which is true, but it is also true, just like in Syria and Iraq, that the western Europe and USA created wars here, which destroyed our economy, so people here cannot live here by their work.

But the problem is that all those things in Balkan last for more than 20 years now, and that is too much for the brain of averages citizen of this planet to contemplate. There is too much data to memorize. And only the people who deeply want to know the truth about this world would go into such endeavor.
 
Persej said:
There is too much data to memorize. And only the people who deeply want to know the truth about this world would go into such endeavor.

It is a bit confusing. But made on purpose or by ignorance also from news reporters.In one article sometimes, if not must of the time, you can see the three words employed: migrants, immigrants and refugees. So normal that people who follow the news are confuse with these words and their sense. Also they insist on the reason Syrians wanted to go to Germany or Sweden: not to start a new life because they were in real danger in Syria, but to benefit from the standard of living and specially the benefits to be a refugee (or immigrant) in these countries. Like they want to abuse "the welfare system" from their situation. All this reminds me the situation of Jews before the Second World War. It is very disturbing to see the video about the mechanical fence in Hungary .Like in the Middle Age when cities closed themselves up against the plague.
Now also they employed a new expression: "illegal immigration" to justify their mechanical barricades.

edit: some words
 
loreta said:
It is a bit confusing. But made on purpose or by ignorance also from news reporters.

Yes, because they are giving the information bits by bits, so even the people who are following news on a daily basis do not get the full picture of what's going on there.

In one article sometimes, if not must of the time, you can see the three words employed: migrants, immigrants and refugees. So normal that people who follow the news are confuse with these words and their sense.

And some people say that Syrians and Iraqis can be called refugees but not Afghans or Pakistanis... Technically they are right, but... they are all victims, in one way of another, of US and EU politics in Middle East.

Also they insist on the reason Syrians wanted to go to Germany or Sweden: not to start a new life because they were in real danger in Syria, but to benefit from the standard of living and specially the benefits to be a refugee (or immigrant) in these countries. Like they want to abuse "the welfare system" from their situation. All this reminds me the situation of Jews before the Second World War.
Yes.

It is very disturbing to see the video about the mechanical fence in Hungary .Like in the Middle Age when cities closed themselves up against the plague.

Yes, plague of refugees.

And here are the first clashes on the Hungarian border. Police is using water cannons and tear gas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=169&v=GHS8N8CKOgE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=167&v=xySKoZanElw
 
mkrnhr said:
There is something odd in the media treatment of these waves of refugees, the use of the word "migrant".
According to the online Oxford dictionary, a migrant is:
a person who moves from one place to another, especially in order to find work
the other definition being
a bird or an animal that moves from one place to another according to the season
The related words we were most familiar with before were emigrant and immigrant.
Using "migrant" instead of "refugee" is possibly a semantic trick to frame the debate were the causes are not discussed. "Migrant" is more neutral in the sense that it doesn't convey that something has been done to these people.

Since it is a broughter term, it can also be used for a broughter spectrum of people and not just refugees.
 
loreta said:
Here more altercations in front of the barrier.

I do not know if it is the same or not, Loreta, for some reason is broken to me, but ... they (PTB) were getting "late" with news like this:

http://www.rt.com/news/315585-hungary-detains-refugees-terrorist/ said:
Hungary detains 29 asylum seekers including ‘identified terrorist’ in border clash

Hungary detained 29 asylum seekers in clashes at the Hungarian-Serbian border on Wednesday. Among them was “an identified terrorist,” according to a PM security aide.

Gyorgy Bakondi, a security adviser to Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, said that 20 police officers were injured in the violence after refugees and migrants broke through a razor wire fence on the border between the Hungarian town of Roszke and Horgos in Serbia on Wednesday.

Twenty-nine people were detained, said Bakondi who added that “police also captured an identified terrorist.
 
mabar said:
loreta said:
Here more altercations in front of the barrier.

I do not know if it is the same or not, Loreta, for some reason is broken to me, but ... they (PTB) were getting "late" with news like this:

http://www.rt.com/news/315585-hungary-detains-refugees-terrorist/ said:
Hungary detains 29 asylum seekers including ‘identified terrorist’ in border clash

Hungary detained 29 asylum seekers in clashes at the Hungarian-Serbian border on Wednesday. Among them was “an identified terrorist,” according to a PM security aide.

Gyorgy Bakondi, a security adviser to Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, said that 20 police officers were injured in the violence after refugees and migrants broke through a razor wire fence on the border between the Hungarian town of Roszke and Horgos in Serbia on Wednesday.

Twenty-nine people were detained, said Bakondi who added that “police also captured an identified terrorist.


In the news from the video I put they also said that 20 policemen were wound but nothing about arresting people and specially arresting a terrorist. So your news has more information than mine. Is that what you mean by "late" ? Surely your information came later.
 
loreta said:
In the news from the video I put they also said that 20 policemen were wound but nothing about arresting people and specially arresting a terrorist. So your news has more information than mine. Is that what you mean by "late" ? Surely your information came later.
Thanks Loreta for the description of the video. And, no, "late" to me was that PTB needs that kind of news -as to how come they did not bring it before, to find a terrorist among the refugees, to justify better the borders closed and or in order to "tell us" that some one would had passed already, I remembered this article, http://www.sott.net/article/301559-ISIS-among-the-refugees-Prelude-to-another-European-terror-attack#


add: some good news ...
http://www.rt.com/news/315589-razor-wire-hungary-germany/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome said:
‘Razor wire is for criminals’: German firms refuse to sell materials for Hungary's refugee fence

Two leading German manufacturers have turned their back on contracts worth hundreds of thousands of euros to help build up Hungary’s border with Serbia. Despite the gesture, more and more countries are fencing themselves off from the flow of asylum seekers into Europe.

According to German media, Hungary, a major transit route for migrants attempting to reach Germany from Greece, put out a tender for 9,000 or 10,000 rolls of barbed wire in August. Each roll would have contained up to 10 feet of wire, and cost between €15 ($17) and €30 ($34) for an order of this size.

An improved modification of barbed wire, razor wire is lighter, and features small blades instead of barbs, meaning it cuts more easily, and is harder to break with a pair of clippers.

Mutanox, a Berlin-based manufacturer said it refused to put forward a bid on principle.

"Razor wire is designed to prevent criminal acts, like a burglary. Fleeing children and adults are not criminals," a spokesman told Die Welt newspaper.

A second company, which wished to remain unnamed, said it initially submitted a bid, only to regret the decision.

“The whole process was very fast and opaque. In the end, we were glad not to have won. Children trapped in razor wire are a disgrace,” said the CEO.

Die Welt reported that in the end a Chinese firm stepped in to fulfill the order.

Hungary’s nationalist government has been unapologetic about the construction of the fence, after 170,000 people entered the country illegally since the start of this year. It has recently approved a law that introduces sentences of up to three years for illegal crossers.

When the fence opened on Tuesday, the number of those attempting to cross into the country fell to 316, from a record 9,380 the day before. According to the Guardian, those attempting to enter were subjected to on-the-spot asylum assessments, with the vast majority being told to return to Serbia. On Wednesday, a group of migrants attempted to forcefully cross the fence, only to be met with water cannon and tear gas.

For all the criticism prime minister Viktor Orban has brooked from his political opponents at home and in the EU, and human rights groups – from being called unempathetic to accusations of crypto-fascism – Hungary appears to have been a forerunner of a trend that is now being taken on board by the rest of Europe

ast week, Germany instituted border checks with Austria, and suspended several train services that resulted in Munich being overrun with asylum seekers arriving from the country. In a domino effect, Austria has closed off its border with Hungary, also halting several communication lines, to prevent a build-up of refugees inside its territory. Slovakia and the Czech Republic are two other Schengen Agreement members, who have instituted controls on their southern checkpoints, with Croatia expected to become the next easy route towards Germany, which has accepted more refugees than all the rest of Europe put together.

Meanwhile, Hungary has now said it plans to extend its fence to the border it shares with Romania.

That's a new term to me: crypto-fascist ...
 
mabar said:
loreta said:
In the news from the video I put they also said that 20 policemen were wound but nothing about arresting people and specially arresting a terrorist. So your news has more information than mine. Is that what you mean by "late" ? Surely your information came later.
Thanks Loreta for the description of the video. And, no, "late" to me was that PTB needs that kind of news -as to how come they did not bring it before, to find a terrorist among the refugees, to justify better the borders closed and or in order to "tell us" that some one would had passed already, I remembered this article, http://www.sott.net/article/301559-ISIS-among-the-refugees-Prelude-to-another-European-terror-attack#

I also think that this type of news is a justification for they putting barriers. Or putting barriers they know that the refugees will react like this. It is like to be in a vicious circle. But just today I read two news emphasizing about this possibility of jihadists coming in with refugees. So they have something in mind for sure!
 
I`m thinking ,what will happen with all this people soon when winter will come. It will be even more disaster situation when all this people traveling across the Europe and waiting at the borders freeze to death in their journey. They don't have cloth for winter, they don't have anything. They are not adapted to very cold winters , but even if they are their chances are low because of their resources.
And as the situation is developing i don't think that all of them will find some temporary shelter during the winter, or the winter will be excuse to put them in some kind of camps .
Very dark times are coming for all those suffered souls out there.
 
Terrible scenes from Serbian - Hungarian border.

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2&v=zl5YF0qWK7k

:(
 
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