Mechanical Center
- Thread starter Menna
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Brunauld said:
FWIW, I understand "fuse" as a metaphor to describe a dynamic process of Work, which gradually forms a real "I" which is stable as opposed to the false "I" which constantly shifts in reaction to external or internal stimuli. The "fusion" is accomplished by location and removal of buffers that divide our internal sense of self. Roughly, buffers are the lies we create to survive. Some buffers can seem like great ideals or expectations, yet they are not real. They are lies. A real "I" emerges as "I" is less and less divided by these buffers. This is a simplification of the Work, which is often transmitted as inexact metaphor or allegory, allowing us to Work to understand the concept or idea.
I can't see myself without a mirror created by interaction with a network. We have blind spots where buffers conceal the contradictions and lies which allow us to function as a shifting "I" of the moment. When this false "I" is on one side of the buffer, "I" can't see the possibilities of perception and action inherent on the other side of the buffer. Have you noticed we are not always the same "I", but we are an always changing "I" of convenience? It is a great gift to have others in the Work tell us what they see of the elephant we call "I".
Edit: I accidentally posted before composing....
obyvatel
The Living Force
Fusing a magnetic center is a gradual process. It grows with time as one struggles to discern between A and B influences. These efforts, if they are persistent and energetic, begins to attract other forces in the person's life. On one side, the General Law starts acting on the person directly and then through people close to him/her. Perhaps, if the person can withstand the pressure of the General Law and continue on the path, help arrives. In Laura's case which is exceptional in many ways, this help came from the C's who represent the Esoteric Center per my understanding. As AI said, the C's were her network. A more conventional way of expressing this would be to say that the C's were her teacher. But it is to be remembered that the concept of teacher as understood in our STS world is different from the sense it is used in a STO context - so a "network" is more appropriate. Through the interaction with the network, the person's magnetic center continues to grow.
So fusing the Real I is a process. One cannot progress deep into this process without a network/teacher. Yet to make use of the network (in the context of the forum) or for the teacher to appear (in the terminology of Mouravieff/Gurdjieff), one needs to put in the efforts which indicate at least a nascent magnetic center - as Alada described.
Also it may be important to consider that our linear view of time and life may be a limiting factor in understanding. Not everyone starting the Work necessarily start from the same point. People like Ark and Laura perhaps had already done a lot of Work and learnt a lot of lessons in "other" lives. In the present incarnation, they are the trail blazers. I could be wrong but I tend to think that such cases could still follow the template put forward by Mouravieff in a general sense but the exact specifics may not match.
My current understanding fwiw.
So fusing the Real I is a process. One cannot progress deep into this process without a network/teacher. Yet to make use of the network (in the context of the forum) or for the teacher to appear (in the terminology of Mouravieff/Gurdjieff), one needs to put in the efforts which indicate at least a nascent magnetic center - as Alada described.
Also it may be important to consider that our linear view of time and life may be a limiting factor in understanding. Not everyone starting the Work necessarily start from the same point. People like Ark and Laura perhaps had already done a lot of Work and learnt a lot of lessons in "other" lives. In the present incarnation, they are the trail blazers. I could be wrong but I tend to think that such cases could still follow the template put forward by Mouravieff in a general sense but the exact specifics may not match.
My current understanding fwiw.
cubbex
The Living Force
That helps to understand some things. So you can fuse the real I alone? without a network, an esoteric network I refer.
If Laura did with the cs, so Ark did when he meet Laura?
I ask this because the polar beings concept and some articles like the one Ark did about some mathematician says that you need to become one to find the "one". I don't really let myself dream or ask because of the tale in some people cases. But my curiosity turn on when some were saying that you can't do it alone, that you need a network, and in the case of Laura, well I know that she had a network with Terry and his wife an the cs and more people, but I don't know about Ark's case, that would be that he fused his real I when he meet Laura and the cassiopean crew so there his network, but if it happened in that moment (I asume) so how Laura recognized Ark without he being "one"? or it could be that Laura thanks to her advance did recognize Ark (her polar being)? and then help him to fuse his real "I".
If this is the case as I read in the article that talks about the second threshold, I think that well... yes you need a network, but I don't know because I am not Ark or Laura to say hehe :P . I just don't know how my mind do this relations about this esoteric teachings, in some way it looks a lot as a psychological growth, but sometimes looks as a miracle.
If Laura did with the cs, so Ark did when he meet Laura?
I ask this because the polar beings concept and some articles like the one Ark did about some mathematician says that you need to become one to find the "one". I don't really let myself dream or ask because of the tale in some people cases. But my curiosity turn on when some were saying that you can't do it alone, that you need a network, and in the case of Laura, well I know that she had a network with Terry and his wife an the cs and more people, but I don't know about Ark's case, that would be that he fused his real I when he meet Laura and the cassiopean crew so there his network, but if it happened in that moment (I asume) so how Laura recognized Ark without he being "one"? or it could be that Laura thanks to her advance did recognize Ark (her polar being)? and then help him to fuse his real "I".
If this is the case as I read in the article that talks about the second threshold, I think that well... yes you need a network, but I don't know because I am not Ark or Laura to say hehe :P . I just don't know how my mind do this relations about this esoteric teachings, in some way it looks a lot as a psychological growth, but sometimes looks as a miracle.
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
go2 said:
Yes, and to fuse that singular 'I', internal heat is required. Internal heat (friction) is almost impossible to generate on your own - external shocks are needed, thus a conscious network that is able to apply shocks when they are needed and give opportunities for the generation of internal heat/friction.
Alada, yeah I recognize that it's almost useless as an idea in terms of practicality (the notion that one can access the Esoteric Center by B influences alone provided you have a magnetic center); that's why I always qualified the statement of it not being possible by following up with that the odds are so low that C influences are pretty much mandatory.
It probably was, as obyvatel suggested, just an over-intellectualized theorizing. Carry on :)
I'll bring up Mouravieff's image again.
In this demonstration, Mouravieff designates the line connecting the large individual to the white Esoteric Center as the D influence, which is purely esoteric knowledge. It exists outside the bubble of the world, because they are objective concepts which exist outside the world independently. I think this qualifies the Cassiopian experiment as a dispenser of D influences, with maybe the C's themselves occupying the Esoteric Center. In the diagram, C influences only designate the lines between people with functional magnetic centers.
As for the nature of the Esoteric Center, I think it may have something to do with the "Cosmic Retrieval System" the Cassiopeans speak about (Nov 19, 1994).
Later on they say that everything is part of the Cosmic Retrieval System in some way. From that perspective, the distinction between C and D influences starts to become more academic.
It probably was, as obyvatel suggested, just an over-intellectualized theorizing. Carry on :)
I'll bring up Mouravieff's image again.
In this demonstration, Mouravieff designates the line connecting the large individual to the white Esoteric Center as the D influence, which is purely esoteric knowledge. It exists outside the bubble of the world, because they are objective concepts which exist outside the world independently. I think this qualifies the Cassiopian experiment as a dispenser of D influences, with maybe the C's themselves occupying the Esoteric Center. In the diagram, C influences only designate the lines between people with functional magnetic centers.
As for the nature of the Esoteric Center, I think it may have something to do with the "Cosmic Retrieval System" the Cassiopeans speak about (Nov 19, 1994).
Later on they say that everything is part of the Cosmic Retrieval System in some way. From that perspective, the distinction between C and D influences starts to become more academic.
Menna
The Living Force
Great info here from everyone. I have two more question.
Examples
A influence - TV Comercials trying to sell a product. Or magazines that have advertisements for clothes or a car. Non conciouse influences
B influence - information that is read in books like ISOTM and the magnetic center will help you recognize this info and help you discern better between A and B and what B influences are.
C influence - This is information that is typed to or spoken to a person that is concious the deference between B and C is that B is written in a book not for an individual but as esoteric knowledge for whoever can recognize it but C influence is spoken or typed to a person with a specific aim for that person
D influence - Is D influence the students comprehension of C influence?
E influence - is the esoteric center?
Please correct or give better examples of A B or C influence if mine or off or wrong
Examples
A influence - TV Comercials trying to sell a product. Or magazines that have advertisements for clothes or a car. Non conciouse influences
B influence - information that is read in books like ISOTM and the magnetic center will help you recognize this info and help you discern better between A and B and what B influences are.
C influence - This is information that is typed to or spoken to a person that is concious the deference between B and C is that B is written in a book not for an individual but as esoteric knowledge for whoever can recognize it but C influence is spoken or typed to a person with a specific aim for that person
D influence - Is D influence the students comprehension of C influence?
E influence - is the esoteric center?
Please correct or give better examples of A B or C influence if mine or off or wrong
Alada
The Living Force
Examples
A influences - Life in general, the matrix control system, that is to say pretty much everything.
B influences - Ideas created consciously by persons aware of the matrix control system. These ideas are then released back into the matrix via books, philosophical ideas, some religious influences, objective art, and so on. These days the list should extend to include films, websites, even Youtube videos etc. but it would be impossible to make a complete list of what these influences are, one must discern for oneself.
C influence - 'School'. The direct living influence of a person or group working to pass on objective knowledge of life outside the matrix reality.
D influence - I don't know. Maybe we should just concern ourselves with where we are, that is, trying to discern and distinguish between A and B influences.
E influence - I don't know either really, just enough to remember that the Esoteric Centre is a sphere completely outside of life, not a part of the matrix reality.
A influences - Life in general, the matrix control system, that is to say pretty much everything.
B influences - Ideas created consciously by persons aware of the matrix control system. These ideas are then released back into the matrix via books, philosophical ideas, some religious influences, objective art, and so on. These days the list should extend to include films, websites, even Youtube videos etc. but it would be impossible to make a complete list of what these influences are, one must discern for oneself.
C influence - 'School'. The direct living influence of a person or group working to pass on objective knowledge of life outside the matrix reality.
D influence - I don't know. Maybe we should just concern ourselves with where we are, that is, trying to discern and distinguish between A and B influences.
E influence - I don't know either really, just enough to remember that the Esoteric Centre is a sphere completely outside of life, not a part of the matrix reality.
Buddy
The Living Force
I felt moved to reply to Alada's post with observations from my study of Sufi teaching methods as a way of supporting and confirming what Alada said.
The Sufi might call this the world of symbols, masks or veils which have superficial, literal meaning for those with the literalist mindset. Possibly deeper spiritual significance for those who have prepared themselves by learning how to learn; but, only for those folks.
Sufi work that would not be recognized as such because the target audience is general and broad and includes people who need to get some value from literal meaning in order to prevent them from destroying it, thereby taking away the deeper meanings from others who might benefit. Examples include those Alada referred to, structured in such a way that the surface mind understands it one way, but the subconscious gets a different message. This technique is abused by propagandists but used properly by the real esoteric teachers, OSIT.
As a possible example, what do you "get" from comparing the following:
1) STO as giving all when asked, and only what is asked,
2) This saying by Rumi in Fihi ma Fihi: "I am a shoemaker, with much leather. But I do the cutting and the stitching according to the dimensions of the foot",
3) The first law of thermodynamics (the principle of conservation of energy)
If you can feel the truth that is expressed in the various contexts, without being compelled to put it into words, perhaps you have received a "B" influence?
Being a member of a small group where a Sufi teacher is attuned to the individual and lessons are tailored to make learning efficient - with no more and no less than what is needed so that the student can complete his own education. On this forum, this would be represented by the opportunity for direct instruction and mirroring by the network. The attunement is via understanding gained by the members sharing of himself, where possible, and posting history, OSIT.
A sense of humor lacking in self-importance. A refreshing treat anytime of day! :)
Alada said:
The Sufi might call this the world of symbols, masks or veils which have superficial, literal meaning for those with the literalist mindset. Possibly deeper spiritual significance for those who have prepared themselves by learning how to learn; but, only for those folks.
Alada said:
Sufi work that would not be recognized as such because the target audience is general and broad and includes people who need to get some value from literal meaning in order to prevent them from destroying it, thereby taking away the deeper meanings from others who might benefit. Examples include those Alada referred to, structured in such a way that the surface mind understands it one way, but the subconscious gets a different message. This technique is abused by propagandists but used properly by the real esoteric teachers, OSIT.
As a possible example, what do you "get" from comparing the following:
1) STO as giving all when asked, and only what is asked,
2) This saying by Rumi in Fihi ma Fihi: "I am a shoemaker, with much leather. But I do the cutting and the stitching according to the dimensions of the foot",
3) The first law of thermodynamics (the principle of conservation of energy)
If you can feel the truth that is expressed in the various contexts, without being compelled to put it into words, perhaps you have received a "B" influence?
Alada said:
Being a member of a small group where a Sufi teacher is attuned to the individual and lessons are tailored to make learning efficient - with no more and no less than what is needed so that the student can complete his own education. On this forum, this would be represented by the opportunity for direct instruction and mirroring by the network. The attunement is via understanding gained by the members sharing of himself, where possible, and posting history, OSIT.
Alada said:
A sense of humor lacking in self-importance. A refreshing treat anytime of day! :)
cubbex
The Living Force
Alada said:
I'll may be incorrectly. But as I understand:
A Influences - Life, context and disinfo.
B Influences - Books, data, info. Objective knowledge.
C Influences - A network or a school. Mouravieffs says that is a cycle and that the C influences connects to the D influences. A forum member may connect someone who wants to know to this forum and the people in charge to spread knowledge.
D Influences - Laura's family and close friends interested in the cs experiment and the esoteric material. And maybe Laura and Ark
E Influences - Laura and Ark. Or the cassiopaeans... maybe they work in diality, you know, Laura is as important as the cass because is she and the others that ask the precise questions.
I have to add that the B influences has to be with the divine science that Mouravieff talks about comaring to the human science. So maybe B influences are those about aliens, esoteric teachings, and more objective info (I don't know hoe to describe it), then by the passion of talking about this info you get to a C influence, a school or a network, connected to those imparting the data you want to share, and adding more, that would be you know... Gurdjieff, Jesus, Laura, Fulcanelli and all those with elevated knowledge.
A influences is pretty accurate. They are the bread-and-butter of the matrix, and are subject entirely to the law of accident and are non-conscious.
B influences also pretty accurate. The real substance they offer to a person is convincing them that, "something fishy is going on here, something beyond and above all these other (A) influences". If someone isn't attuned to B influences, they risk degenerating into regular A influences when their inspirational or external shock potential is discharged (when they're swallowed back into the "vortex of life" as Mouravieff says). B influences are sometimes subject to the law of accident and sometimes conscious.
C influences are conversations or dialogues with other people as part of a school or network, to further develop someone's knowledge and being to search for objective reality. Laura, Ark, and many others on this forum would be examples of C influences. C influences and above are never subject to the law of accident and are always conscious.
D influences are pure esoteric knowledge, which exists outside of the world and are independent from it. They are similar to B influences, except for the fact that D influences is a direct access of such knowledge, while B influences are distorted and diffused through the lense of our material world. Information one receives from channeling the Cassiopeans would be an example of D influence, because it is clearly otherworldly.
E influences are the Esoteric Center itself. As Alada said, it is outside the regular 3D world. From the 3D perspective it is the realm of the miraculous.
B influences also pretty accurate. The real substance they offer to a person is convincing them that, "something fishy is going on here, something beyond and above all these other (A) influences". If someone isn't attuned to B influences, they risk degenerating into regular A influences when their inspirational or external shock potential is discharged (when they're swallowed back into the "vortex of life" as Mouravieff says). B influences are sometimes subject to the law of accident and sometimes conscious.
C influences are conversations or dialogues with other people as part of a school or network, to further develop someone's knowledge and being to search for objective reality. Laura, Ark, and many others on this forum would be examples of C influences. C influences and above are never subject to the law of accident and are always conscious.
D influences are pure esoteric knowledge, which exists outside of the world and are independent from it. They are similar to B influences, except for the fact that D influences is a direct access of such knowledge, while B influences are distorted and diffused through the lense of our material world. Information one receives from channeling the Cassiopeans would be an example of D influence, because it is clearly otherworldly.
E influences are the Esoteric Center itself. As Alada said, it is outside the regular 3D world. From the 3D perspective it is the realm of the miraculous.
Menna
The Living Force
Much help here much help thanks...To break it down a little more as I need to wrap my head around things before I understand them
C and D influences differ because in order for a C influence to exist it has to come from a D influence? Meaning the knowledge has to come from somewhere outside of this world and that somewhere is a D influence? For example laura is a C influence and the C's are a D influence or another example Jesus was a C influence and GOD was his D influence? Can a D influence come from this earth?
C and D influences differ because in order for a C influence to exist it has to come from a D influence? Meaning the knowledge has to come from somewhere outside of this world and that somewhere is a D influence? For example laura is a C influence and the C's are a D influence or another example Jesus was a C influence and GOD was his D influence? Can a D influence come from this earth?
