Members' forum

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
B588 said:
Ajay, thank you for responding and answering my questions. However, you do not decide for me what is "private", and your comment about that is inappropriate, thanks but no thanks on that. Do you see how that might not be something for you to decide, friend ?

Second, yes I joined FOTCM in August 2014. That's 6 months, going on more.

Third, if I am not a member of the private forum , then I would like to be. I want to start networking in my physical location. I bolded your words, AJay, as the same is true for me , at this time.

Moderator , please let me know about my access to the private area, all of it, or not having access to it. Reasons , if any, for no access: please provide so I can correct.

B, :cool2:

Access to the private board is determined by the Mods and Ambassadors, all of whom are directing members of FOTCM. Anyone can be a member of FOTCM, organizationally speaking, but to be admitted to the private networking board is a privilege granted to those who are thought to be trustworthy and someone all of us would like to meet and hang out with. However, in the post above, what we notice is that you are snippy with our ‘friends’ and in the next breath invite yourself to our ‘house’! Do you think that is the way to make other members want to hang out with you?
 

LjRoxArk

Jedi
Laura said:
Access to the private board is determined by the Mods and Ambassadors, all of whom are directing members of FOTCM. Anyone can be a member of FOTCM, organizationally speaking, but to be admitted to the private networking board is a privilege granted to those who are thought to be trustworthy and someone all of us would like to meet and hang out with. However, in the post above, what we notice is that you are snippy with our ‘friends’ and in the next breath invite yourself to our ‘house’! Do you think that is the way to make other members want to hang out with you?

Laura, and A Jay...

I perceived A jay's comment as "snippy",and presumptuous. Go figure !..lol. And that is how it still stands, without clarification from him. Honestly, I don't care so much, but then your reply, Laura, sort of beckons one from me.

I know that you have your rules and customs, I have attempted to comply with them in all ways; it's not so hard, really. lafn.

I further, must be honest, however, and say that the "snippy" wasn't instigated by be. This young man , A Jay, has no idea what is private and what is not for anyone but himself. His cavalier attitude is what I called out; its a presumptuous comment and I don't think it was appropriate. Still don't. It was not very considerate of him, <you, AJay>.

Point is, I object to his inadequacy as "judge", and that's all. How would I do that in another way that is not "snippy" in your opinion ? Perhaps he might not ought to have said it ? There's an option to consider....?

I Apologize for lack of communication/articulation skill. Advise, please, on how I should register my objection to his unsolicited opinion?.. Big Smile. Ajay, please feel free to jump in. No "snippy" though, okay ???.. lafn.

It mutual, right ??? Friendship has to be polite and considerate for each to really work...it goes both ways.

B, :cool2:

--
MOD edit: quote box fixed
 

lilyalic

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
B588 said:
I perceived A jay's comment as "snippy",and presumptuous. Go figure !..lol. And that is how it still stands, without clarification from him. Honestly, I don't care so much, but then your reply, Laura, sort of beckons one from me.

I know that you have your rules and customs, I have attempted to comply with them in all ways; it's not so hard, really. lafn.

I further, must be honest, however, and say that the "snippy" wasn't instigated by be. This young man , A Jay, has no idea what is private and what is not for anyone but himself. His cavalier attitude is what I called out; its a presumptuous comment and I don't think it was appropriate. Still don't. It was not very considerate of him, <you, AJay>.

Point is, I object to his inadequacy as "judge", and that's all. How would I do that in another way that is not "snippy" in your opinion ? Perhaps he might not ought to have said it ? There's an option to consider....?

I Apologize for lack of communication/articulation skill. Advise, please, on how I should register my objection to his unsolicited opinion?.. Big Smile. Ajay, please feel free to jump in. No "snippy" though, okay ???.. lafn.

It mutual, right ??? Friendship has to be polite and considerate for each to really work...it goes both ways.

B, :cool2:

The thing is, A jay's comments where not at all portrayed in a vindictive way. He wasn't saying your issues aren't private.

We all post on the public forum, even what seem quite "private" i.e. issues with family, money, relationships, feelings, attacks etc.

It seems your assumptions and self-importance are blinding your sight B588, and I say that only out of concern for your growth. You're calling a fellow member "inconsiderate" when that's not how members act with each other here on the forum, it's actually something we are all working on and try our very bests to be externally considerate and empathetic.

Everyone is trying to serve others by helping them, at the same time internally working on themselves, the more work someone does on themselves (ridding of programs, etc) the more useful they are in helping others. With working on yourself, comes more empathy, external consideration and objectivity.

Self importance:

http://thecasswiki.net/index.php?title=Self-importance_or_self-love

Externally and Internally considering

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=40&lsel=E
 

monotonic

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I read that thread and I can see why you would feel that way. You could have written one short sentence and A Jay would have gotten the message. What you did is like holding up a megaphone right next to his his head, which is condescending and doesn't help anyone, not even you.

Is it possible you have been around inconsiderate, mean people so long that you sometimes don't realize someone is being sincere and wanting to help because you are constantly on-guard?
 

Renaissance

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
B588 said:
I perceived A jay's comment as "snippy",and presumptuous. Go figure !..lol. And that is how it still stands, without clarification from him. Honestly, I don't care so much, but then your reply, Laura, sort of beckons one from me.

I know that you have your rules and customs, I have attempted to comply with them in all ways; it's not so hard, really. lafn.

I further, must be honest, however, and say that the "snippy" wasn't instigated by be. This young man , A Jay, has no idea what is private and what is not for anyone but himself. His cavalier attitude is what I called out; its a presumptuous comment and I don't think it was appropriate. Still don't. It was not very considerate of him, <you, AJay>.

Point is, I object to his inadequacy as "judge", and that's all. How would I do that in another way that is not "snippy" in your opinion ? Perhaps he might not ought to have said it ? There's an option to consider....?

I Apologize for lack of communication/articulation skill. Advise, please, on how I should register my objection to his unsolicited opinion?.. Big Smile. Ajay, please feel free to jump in. No "snippy" though, okay ???.. lafn.

I don't see what A Jay said as being snippy, but if you perceived it that way there are ways to respectfully address it so there can be some communication about it. You could say something like 'there were some things that were personal to me that might not be as apparent to others' or something like that. Feedback and networking are what most people are looking for on the forum and that's really what we're all about, so unsolicited thoughts don't really come into play. There is even more attention given to this on the FOTCM board, so it might be useful to consider if this is something you want or not.

Often enough our perception of things aren't in line with things as they are. Making an effort to curb our reactions so that we might both understand others and respectfully convey our perception of things can provide a good basis for communicating and getting to the bottom of things.
 

Keyhole

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
B588, I think you may have misinterpreted Ajay's comment... It seems to me that Ajay was referring to what is classed as "private" on this forum such as real name, contact information, meet-ups etc etc. This doesn't necessarily mean that he was, in any way, trying to dictate what was private for you of not.

The whole idea of this forum is to network with others. Networking with others in real life is a privilege for those who have taken the time and effort to network here on this forum and show that they ARE participating in the Work, and are not pathological type. Remember, the FOTCM do this to protect the privacy and maintain the safety of its members, and this is something that we should be thankful for.

B588 said:
Ajay, thank you for responding and answering my questions. However, you do not decide for me what is "private", and your comment about that is inappropriate, thanks but no thanks on that. Do you see how that might not be something for you to decide, friend ?

Second, yes I joined FOTCM in August 2014. That's 6 months, going on more.

Third, if I am not a member of the private forum , then I would like to be. I want to start networking in my physical location. I bolded your words, AJay, as the same is true for me , at this time.

Moderator , please let me know about my access to the private area, all of it, or not having access to it. Reasons , if any, for no access: please provide so I can correct.

B, :cool2:
I am not entirely sure what you mean by the use of the word "friend" end of this sentence other than to insinuate something other than its meaning, however this may be my misinterpretation.

It seems from your comments that you want free access to the private forum merely for the reason of meeting up with people IRL and have not grasped the concept of networking and FOTCM in general.
B588 said:
Laura, and A Jay...

I perceived A jay's comment as "snippy",and presumptuous. Go figure !..lol. And that is how it still stands, without clarification from him. Honestly, I don't care so much, but then your reply, Laura, sort of beckons one from me.

I know that you have your rules and customs, I have attempted to comply with them in all ways; it's not so hard, really. lafn.

I further, must be honest, however, and say that the "snippy" wasn't instigated by be. This young man , A Jay, has no idea what is private and what is not for anyone but himself. His cavalier attitude is what I called out; its a presumptuous comment and I don't think it was appropriate. Still don't. It was not very considerate of him, <you, AJay>.

Point is, I object to his inadequacy as "judge", and that's all. How would I do that in another way that is not "snippy" in your opinion ? Perhaps he might not ought to have said it ? There's an option to consider....?

I Apologize for lack of communication/articulation skill. Advise, please, on how I should register my objection to his unsolicited opinion?.. Big Smile. Ajay, please feel free to jump in. No "snippy" though, okay ???.. lafn.

It mutual, right ??? Friendship has to be polite and considerate for each to really work...it goes both ways.

B, :cool2:

The "rules and customs" are basically external consideration, which is what people here on the forum try to practice. If you are unfamiliar with the term you may want to read this thread.

You have also made assumptions about A Jay and the way that you are referring to him is not in the least bit considerate and actually downright rude, considering he was only trying to give you some advice. If you truly are interested in networking on this forum, look at the advice that others have given you and try to see how others may be perceiving your comments.
 

monotonic

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Keyhole said:
B588, I think you may have misinterpreted Ajay's comment... It seems to me that Ajay was referring to what is classed as "private" on this forum such as real name, contact information, meet-ups etc etc. This doesn't necessarily mean that he was, in any way, trying to dictate what was private for you of not.

My initial interpretation was similar to B588's. After going back to read it again, it still seemed to me A Jay was making a judgement. Only now can I see it the way you saw it. So I can certainly see where B588 is coming from. It is not always possible to know how people will misread what you write. Someone who is always anticipating the next verbal attack or emotional vampire will often assume the worst meaning if your vague phrasing allows it.
 

Keyhole

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
monotonic said:
Keyhole said:
B588, I think you may have misinterpreted Ajay's comment... It seems to me that Ajay was referring to what is classed as "private" on this forum such as real name, contact information, meet-ups etc etc. This doesn't necessarily mean that he was, in any way, trying to dictate what was private for you of not.

My initial interpretation was similar to B588's. After going back to read it again, it still seemed to me A Jay was making a judgement. Only now can I see it the way you saw it. So I can certainly see where B588 is coming from. It is not always possible to know how people will misread what you write. Someone who is always anticipating the next verbal attack or emotional vampire will often assume the worst meaning if your vague phrasing allows it.

I can see where B588 is coming from as well, but the comment was in the context of gaining access to the private forum. I am not part of that forum, but I assume that "private" information on the private forum refers to personal details etc which I think was what A Jay was referring to without making any judgements regarding B588.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
monotonic said:
Keyhole said:
B588, I think you may have misinterpreted Ajay's comment... It seems to me that Ajay was referring to what is classed as "private" on this forum such as real name, contact information, meet-ups etc etc. This doesn't necessarily mean that he was, in any way, trying to dictate what was private for you of not.

My initial interpretation was similar to B588's. After going back to read it again, it still seemed to me A Jay was making a judgement. Only now can I see it the way you saw it. So I can certainly see where B588 is coming from. It is not always possible to know how people will misread what you write. Someone who is always anticipating the next verbal attack or emotional vampire will often assume the worst meaning if your vague phrasing allows it.

Monotonic, since you are one who is always expecting verbal attack, etc, you seem to be projecting. Please notice that YOU do not respond to anyone, even if you might be in such a state, in such an offensive way.

B588, one of the things that is pretty much prerequisite for admission to the members forum is demonstrating an ability to really get along with others, INCLUDING being able to take direct, sincere feedback. Since you got so nasty over nothing, I can't imagine how you'd react to direct feedback about a real issue if you were to join any of our gatherings or community activities.

Please note that it really isn't about you deciding to pick and choose meeting whoever, whenever, wherever, there are organized activities and the hosts/participants pretty much run their own shows.
 

LjRoxArk

Jedi
Lilyalic said:
B588 said:
I perceived A jay's comment as "snippy",and presumptuous. Go figure !..lol. And that is how it still stands, without clarification from him. Honestly, I don't care so much, but then your reply, Laura, sort of beckons one from me.

I know that you have your rules and customs, I have attempted to comply with them in all ways; it's not so hard, really. lafn.

I further, must be honest, however, and say that the "snippy" wasn't instigated by be. This young man , A Jay, has no idea what is private and what is not for anyone but himself. His cavalier attitude is what I called out; its a presumptuous comment and I don't think it was appropriate. Still don't. It was not very considerate of him, <you, AJay>.

Point is, I object to his inadequacy as "judge", and that's all. How would I do that in another way that is not "snippy" in your opinion ? Perhaps he might not ought to have said it ? There's an option to consider....?

I Apologize for lack of communication/articulation skill. Advise, please, on how I should register my objection to his unsolicited opinion?.. Big Smile. Ajay, please feel free to jump in. No "snippy" though, okay ???.. lafn.

It mutual, right ??? Friendship has to be polite and considerate for each to really work...it goes both ways.

B, :cool2:

The thing is, A jay's comments where not at all portrayed in a vindictive way. He wasn't saying your issues aren't private.

We all post on the public forum, even what seem quite "private" i.e. issues with family, money, relationships, feelings, attacks etc.

It seems your assumptions and self-importance are blinding your sight B588, and I say that only out of concern for your growth. You're calling a fellow member "inconsiderate" when that's not how members act with each other here on the forum, it's actually something we are all working on and try our very bests to be externally considerate and empathetic.

Everyone is trying to serve others by helping them, at the same time internally working on themselves, the more work someone does on themselves (ridding of programs, etc) the more useful they are in helping others. With working on yourself, comes more empathy, external consideration and objectivity.

Self importance:

http://thecasswiki.net/index.php?title=Self-importance_or_self-love

Externally and Internally considering

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=40&lsel=E

I am just responding to all here, with this emphasis on lilyacs words, above.
We have all spent time and energy on something, in my opinion, is very trivial. A simple miscommunication; it no bigger a deal than that, but look at all the attention it gets. So, this is why I really was a "boardlurker" for a long time, 2+ years. Many of the same kind of situations took up pages and pages of arguing over "nothing"... and it didn't seem very "friendly" to me. In fact it seems a perseveration, and a "separating" mechanism.

I don't take offense , personally, to anything, anymore. Self importance, not applicable here. But I don't want to get into an endless cul de sac of writing back and forth about something so silly. Do any of you, really?? So , please be nice and considerate of me.

So, who is Ajay and why are you all coming to his defense ? He doesn't need one, not on account of me or anything I would ever "say", at anyway. And he can type , so ?? he can reply.. I simply did not appreciate his comment. No big deal. Except , these posts afterwords are "making it a big deal", I feel the need to respond, and I really think its silly...all this over "nothing".

No offense was meant to Ajay,and I don't see him responding, yet, with an indication that he was offended.

Please don't gang pile me...I am one of you. Okay , maybe the Ferrel Cousin who's been out in the woods fighting the wild hogs...lafn....but am not the "enemy", friends.

If a network is what we all want, then we need to be mutually respectful; I took his comment as presumptuous , I said so...and now look....y'all are calling me snippy, for calling out Ajays' presumption....lafn ....jeeesh.

Maybe , Ajay feels apologetic for the statement ?

I feel apologetic that I said anything at all, given that my original query was one of extending my hand in friendship to see if there was mutuality... oooh my gosh...sigh...

So, I know for a fact , because I have had the pleasure of reading all of Laura's work, and of reading some of you , members, over the years , that we are 'colinear".. I called it coplanar, when I met a like mind , before I came across Laura's material. But we are of the same "tribe". As I said above, I may be the ferrel cousin, however; my skill set needs polishing to sit at the table after being in the woods for so long... lafn... hope you are , too.

Now, how do we get across this "cyber barrier" , which isn't the best. I would not, for example, look for intimate partners, employees or even a nanny, using the internet; it's not adequate to convey the totality of a person, its not "real" and so many of the things that are said, including what I said, what Ajay said...are misunderstood, misconstrued, and here in this thread, taken way too far on the over analysis of it all. Much a do about "nothing". Look at all the energy spent on this....oy vey....

Sigh...not what I intended by my original question...at all. Sigh.

That's all I have at this moment....am sure something else will come up later...lafn.

B, :cool2:
 

Keyhole

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
B588 said:
I am just responding to all here, with this emphasis on lilyacs words, above.
We have all spent time and energy on something, in my opinion, is very trivial. A simple miscommunication; it no bigger a deal than that, but look at all the attention it gets. So, this is why I really was a "boardlurker" for a long time, 2+ years. Many of the same kind of situations took up pages and pages of arguing over "nothing"... and it didn't seem very "friendly" to me. In fact it seems a perseveration, and a "separating" mechanism.

I don't take offense , personally, to anything, anymore. Self importance, not applicable here. But I don't want to get into an endless cul de sac of writing back and forth about something so silly. Do any of you, really?? So , please be nice and considerate of me.

Some consideration : You are deluding yourself. Stating that self-importance is not applicable to you is a good indicator that you have not grasped much of the work that is done here. The aims of this network are to work towards seeing reality objectively and working towards finding truth inside ourselves and outside ourselves. That means identifying our illusions, programmes and buffers.


This is what this network is about, if you do not like it you are welcome to leave.
 

LjRoxArk

Jedi
Keyhole said:
B588 said:
Some consideration : You are deluding yourself. Stating that self-importance is not applicable to you is a good indicator that you have not grasped much of the work that is done here. The aims of this network are to work towards seeing reality objectively and working towards finding truth inside ourselves and outside ourselves. That means identifying our illusions, programmes and buffers.


This is what this network is about, if you do not like it you are welcome to leave.


Okay, this is what I mean about over analysis, keyhole. I didn't say that "self importance " as a concept doesn't apply to me , ever, but it doesn't here. Yet, you just assigned me that attribute, in sum total. Again, miscommunication. And, ???..Are you trying to be helpful , because the last sentence is just, not very nice , is it ? Over this ? You have that to say ?? Wow.. and sigh.. too much crunch and dump, ie..without any understanding of the person you are "analysing", you make blanket statements and invite me to leave...nice..


And Laura, how am I "nasty" in anything that I have said ? Please show me. No intention for that at all, so how is it that my words are getting all turned around here ? I want to know.


So, still my opinion is that this has been so overblown, because we are communicating in a "fake world"; it was just a miscommunication. That's all. No big deal. Something that wouldnt take any energy to resolve in person. In fact , don't think it would have even occurred in person, right ?


So why all of this from a number of folks, except the one I was talking to, AJay ? It's way too much reading into it, and maybe, as I said, I misread his , Ajays, comment, to start. Ummm, okay. Sorry Ajay, won't happen again. It seems kinda silly isn't it, to spend this much energy on something like this.

I really like what is going on in the forum, love Laura's work especially her writing, and I don't think that what I said to Ajay is deserving of all of this attention from people other than Ajay, himself. We can work it out, me and him..if anything is further required.

Additionally, I would not have joined FOTCM if I hadn't taken a lot of time to evaluate whether or not I could contribute, on the group's terms, to the group. Not a "joiner" really. So, I'll ask all to please, take a breath and relax a little. it's just not that big of a deal, the original situation. The aftermath ? Am still thinking about it, as it doesn't "fit" the situation.... waaaay tooo much analysis, assumption, presumption about it all.

That's how I think about now. I might change my mind, maybe some of you will, too. Smiles.


B, :cool2:

Edit=Quote
 

dugdeep

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
B588, for someone who says they've spent so much time on the forum and is so colinear with this group, you seem to lack a pretty basic understanding of how things work here. No one is overreacting to your posts and this has not gotten overblown and over analyzed. You reacted out of proportion to A Jay's statement, whether you wish to admit this to yourself or not, and that is being pointed out to you.

This forum operates on the premise, which has been proven to be correct time and time again, that we can't see ourselves as well as others can see us. Therefore, any feedback given on how we are presenting ourselves is considered valuable information to help us see ourselves better, which is one of the many AIMs members of this forum have in common - to see ourselves as others see us. When someone refuses to take this information on board, as you appear to be doing now, telling them they're overreacting and over analyzing, they are basically saying they don't want feedback and prefer to operate in the dark, manifesting as they please with no real self-insight. There's nothing wrong with this, of course, if that's what you wish. But understand that this is the way this particular forum operates and these sorts of things will continue to be pointed out to you as long as you continue to participate here.

The choice is yours, of course, but if you find that this isn't how you wish to participate here, another forum may be the best choice for you. You're not being asked to leave at this point, but you should ask yourself seriously if this is in fact what you wish to pursue. It's not an easy road, and the question should be taken seriously.

Mme. de Salzmann, the right-hand pupil of Gurdjieff, wrote a brief piece covering this very topic. It's quoted often on this forum as it speaks to the truth of our situation as "human beings in potential". I'll quote it here for you. Hope it helps:

[quote author=First Initiation]
The 'First Initiation' written by Mme Jeanne de Salzmann:


You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! ...

You live exclusively according to "I like" or "I don't like," you have no appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you-theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes and dislikes.

Yes, your "appreciation of yourself" blinds you. It is the biggest obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle, this threshold, before going further.

This test divides men into two kinds: the "wheat" and the "chaff." No matter how intelligent, how gifted, how brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his appreciation of himself, there will be no hope for an inner development, for a work toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming. He will remain such as he is all his life.

The first requirement, the first condition, the first test for one who wishes to work on himself is to change his appreciation of himself. He must not imagine, not simply believe or think, but see things in himself which he has never seen before, see them actually. His appreciation will never be able to change as long as he sees nothing in himself. And in order to see, he must learn to see; this is the first initiation of man into self-knowledge.

... If he sees one time he can see a second time, and if that continues he will no longer be able not to see. This is the state to be looked for, it is the aim of our observation; it is from there that the true wish will be born, the irresistible wish to become: from cold we shall become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by our reality.

Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And my relations with others will be governed by the same respect.

You must understand that all the other measures - talent, education, culture, genius-are changing measures, measures of detail. The only exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the measure of inner vision. I see - I see myself - by this, you have measured. With one higher real part, you have measured another lower part, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of each part, will lead you to respect for yourself.

But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must pay dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must pay, pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with yourself. By sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more you are prepared to pay without economizing, without cheating, without any falsification, the more you will receive. And from that time on you will become acquainted with your nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the dishonesties that your nature resorts to in order to avoid paying hard cash. Because you have to pay with your ready-made theories, with your rooted convictions, with your prejudices, your conventions, your "I like" and "I don't like." Without bargaining, honestly, without pretending. Trying "sincerely" to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others - lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions - lies. Your teaching - lies. Your theories, your art- lies. Your social life, your family life - lies. And what you think of yourself - lies also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day.

You will see that you are different from what you think you are.

You will see that you are two.

One who is not, but takes the place and plays the role of the other. And one who is, yet so weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner appears than he immediately disappears. He cannot endure lies. The least lie makes him faint away. He does not struggle, he does not resist, he is defeated in advance. Learn to look until you have seen the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the lies, the deception in yourself. When you have seen your two natures, that day, in yourself, the truth will be born.

http://www.gurdjieff.org/salzmann3.htm
 

Alada

The Living Force
B588 said:
Keyhole said:
B588 said:
Some consideration : You are deluding yourself. Stating that self-importance is not applicable to you is a good indicator that you have not grasped much of the work that is done here. The aims of this network are to work towards seeing reality objectively and working towards finding truth inside ourselves and outside ourselves. That means identifying our illusions, programmes and buffers.


This is what this network is about, if you do not like it you are welcome to leave.


Okay, this is what I mean about over analysis, keyhole. I didn't say that "self importance " as a concept doesn't apply to me , ever, but it doesn't here. Yet, you just assigned me that attribute, in sum total. Again, miscommunication. And, ???..Are you trying to be helpful , because the last sentence is just, not very nice , is it ? Over this ? You have that to say ?? Wow.. and sigh.. too much crunch and dump, ie..without any understanding of the person you are "analysing", you make blanket statements and invite me to leave...nice..

I agree that keyholes second statement is not really very helpful here. The first statement however is pertinent.

B588 said:
So, still my opinion is that this has been so overblown, because we are communicating in a "fake world"; it was just a miscommunication. That's all. No big deal. Something that wouldnt take any energy to resolve in person. In fact , don't think it would have even occurred in person, right ?

So why all of this from a number of folks, except the one I was talking to, AJay ? It's way too much reading into it, and maybe, as I said, I misread his , Ajays, comment, to start. Ummm, okay. Sorry Ajay, won't happen again. It seems kinda silly isn't it, to spend this much energy on something like this.

I really like what is going on in the forum, love Laura's work especially her writing, and I don't think that what I said to Ajay is deserving of all of this attention from people other than Ajay, himself. We can work it out, me and him..if anything is further required.

This is the way a network works, what it is about. Its not intended to be a closed system where ones or twos or little groups interact without input from others. We all have reading errors, programs, that create blind spots, to stand any chance of seeing reality as it is, see ourselves, then it takes the input of many to get a clearer picture. If we fall back on relying on our own judgement in all things, ignore the feedback of others, especially things we don’t ‘like’ for whatever reason, then those blind spots will remain.

That you think it all silly, overblown, is indication of such a blind spot. It funny that it always seems to happen the same way, especially with folk who see the networking/feedback process as ‘not nice’, blind spots abound, but it’s ‘not nice’ to say that right, so best ignore/shut it out.

There is one useful question we can pose to ourselves under such circumstances, when the view of the many seems at odds with out own (placed in it’s proper context here of course, that being a network working toward a common objective aim), and it is this: ‘Can it be that I alone am right, and everyone else is wrong?’
 

1984

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
B588 said:
We have all spent time and energy on something, in my opinion, is very trivial. A simple miscommunication; it no bigger a deal than that, but look at all the attention it gets.

Well, we have lots of things to do around here, so if we are spending time on something you deem 'trivial' and you're the only one that deems it so, shouldn't that be enough for you to look twice at what's being written in response to your posts?

B588 said:
So, this is why I really was a "boardlurker" for a long time, 2+ years. Many of the same kind of situations took up pages and pages of arguing over "nothing"... and it didn't seem very "friendly" to me. In fact it seems a perseveration, and a "separating" mechanism.

So, you are saying that 'many of the same kind of situations' took up 'pages and pages' of members' time and it was 'over nothing' and still don't see the point of the exercise?

By your use of the quoted "separating mechanism" above, are you implying what you appear to be implying?

B588 said:
I don't take offense , personally, to anything, anymore.
Yes, you did - here in this thread, and apparently several times in the past based on what you wrote about why you were a board lurker for so long. Sounds like you've been 'taking offense' for some time now.

B588 said:
But I don't want to get into an endless cul de sac of writing back and forth about something so silly. Do any of you, really?? So , please be nice and considerate of me.

So please be 'nice and considerate' to you, but you don't have to show the owners or other members of this house the same respect?

B588 said:
So, who is Ajay and why are you all coming to his defense ? He doesn't need one, not on account of me or anything I would ever "say", at anyway. And he can type , so ?? he can reply....

Once again, you are implying favoritism here and that's walking an accusatory line that is completely wrong. As for A Jay replying, I'm sure he will reply when he can.

B588 said:
I simply did not appreciate his comment. No big deal. Except , these posts afterwords are "making it a big deal", I feel the need to respond, and I really think its silly...all this over "nothing".

Again, if we are spending time on something you deem as 'nothing' and you're the only one that deems it so, shouldn't that be enough for you to look twice at what's being written in response to your posts?

B588 said:
Much a do about "nothing".

Again, if we are spending time on something you deem as 'nothing' and you're the only one that deems it so, shouldn't that be enough for you to look twice at what's being written in response to your posts?

B588 said:
Look at all the energy spent on this..
Indeed...yet we keep trying.
 
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