NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

anarkist said:
I think also that some might have strong emotional reactions/abreactions and so I think it might be useful for those so affected to wait until the emotions have been integrated before doing another session, regardless of their thinking patterns?

I think that is a reasonable approach. In my case, the NeurOptimal equipment is rented only for one month (20 sessions per month), so my choice is to do 5 sessions per week to make up the most out of my money. All the NeurOptimal practitioners are located an 8 hour drive per session away from where I'm located. Where I live, qEEG NF is more readily available and I did one session of that per week or every 3 weeks. In the end, I noticed that doing the NeurOptimal every two days or so had the effect of grounding me, allowing to process things without an unmanageable contractile phase.
 
I've had about 14 NeurOptimal sessions at 3 per week. I managed to stay awake for about 4-5 of them :rolleyes:. When I am awake I feel very deeply relaxed like I'm meditating. I haven't noticed much in the way of effects except for vivid dreams.
 
I been doing a little musing on this subject, and I have some thoughts I'd like to share. I don't know how much an effect what I am going to write about has, or could have, but I thought I'd put it out there and see what others think.
First off, by the use of a Super Quantum Interference device (SQUID) we are now able to measure human biomagnetic fields, and apparently the field generated by the human heart can be detected approx. 20 feet (6-7 metres) away from the body. The heart puts out quite a strong magnetic field, much stronger than the brain. Now the strength of the field at the limits of detect ability is probably not very large at all, but it appears to be present. Our heart field may go out much further than that, but we can not detect it, yet.
Therefore if we can imagine a magnetic field with a radius of 20 feet (diameter of 40 feet) with us in the middle, that field would be 'interfacing' with electromagnetic fields around our body like electrical wiring in the walls, electrical appliances, wifi and other non-native EMF.
Given that (as mentioned in this thread) that the heart sends more electrical signals to the brain than the brain sends to the heart, I am wondering what effect non-native EMF might have on the heart, and consequently on the brain.
I think that if it is possible, if I rent a NO, that I would use it in an area (like a park, or field) where there would hopefully be no, or virtually no, non-native EMF.

That said, it seems people are getting results, and the NO device, as mentioned in the thread, also has a attenuator (software rectifier and/or diode?) for screening out interference from the electrical connection powering the NO device. That apparently handles gross electrical interference. I also don't know if there is enough battery power in the NO device to run a 30 minute session on batteries, so the point is perhaps moot.
Also, I don't think we know enough about the brain to know how it handles non-native EMF. Perhaps, for our purposes the brain treats that EMF as 'background' steady-state noise, and so it may not have any real effect at all.
Just thought I'd put that out there. Thanks for this thread and all the contributors!
 
Anarkist, the NO documentation explains that it dynamically filters out noise, including the power grid 60/50hz.

Despite that, I did my sessions on my bed, at least 1 meter from electrical devices with the tablet plugged in on an outlet that has nothing else on it.

I would think training in an environment that is typical with EMF, cell phone towers around, wifi in the neighborhood would be better than training in a faraday cage or noiseless environment.
I think this because our brains have to deal with this noise every day and the NO training would help the brain adjust to it. Just like there are people who are hyper sensitive to EMF, there are people who aren't affected by it much. It seems better to try to train the brain to not be affected by it as much, since it is all over society these days (even if you don't have wifi or a cell phone).
 
Divide By Zero said:
Anarkist, the NO documentation explains that it dynamically filters out noise, including the power grid 60/50hz.

Despite that, I did my sessions on my bed, at least 1 meter from electrical devices with the tablet plugged in on an outlet that has nothing else on it.
I would think training in an environment that is typical with EMF, cell phone towers around, wifi in the neighborhood would be better than training in a faraday cage or noiseless environment.
I think this because our brains have to deal with this noise every day and the NO training would help the brain adjust to it. Just like there are people who are hyper sensitive to EMF, there are people who aren't affected by it much. It seems better to try to train the brain to not be affected by it as much, since it is all over society these days (even if you don't have wifi or a cell phone).
Yes the point about using the NO device in our present environment, as that is the environment we have to live in between NO sessions, is a good one. It occurred to me also, but I wanted to focus my point on the EMF. With regards to some people being EMF sensitive, and others not, I think I disagree. but mildly as I agree that many people don't notice it. I make the comparison between those affected by gluten/glyphosate in terms of celiac symptoms, and everyone else who is affected by gluten/glyphosate (because I am not sure if it is a gluten and/or glyphosate issue) by do not evidence symptoms of celiac disease. I think everyone is or would be affected by gluten/glyphosate, just like I think everyone is affected by non-native EMF. I am considering that when you said "there are people who aren't affected by it much" you meant "there are people who aren't aware of being affected by it much" It think I am being a bit anal about this, but I do wonder if people who did use the NO away from non-native EMF would be well served, or disadvantaged, to do so?
 
I had my first NO session a few days ago, and a second one Tuesday, but wanted to wait a bit and observe before writing about it, as the effect was subtle and I couldn’t say for sure if it was related to the NO or other things. As for the session itself, it was very relaxing, almost fell asleep at one point. I did the audio version, where I listened to some music (which had an atmospheric sorta new-agey sound to it, but good) and could opt to read a book or just listen. The first time I decided to just listen and found myself quite engrossed in hearing the clicks. The second time I tried to read a book, but that actually made me more sleepy, so I just want back to closing my eyes and listening again. One thing I tried to do was bring to myself to think about things that normally worry me or things that I tend to dwell on, but something about the music and listening to the clicks kept my mind in a sort of ‘still’ space, where it felt almost meditative, despite my attempts to put myself in “stress mode.”

As for after, I didn’t really notice anything much right away. Maybe just more relaxed and fell asleep that night without any issues. What was noticeable was in the morning when I woke up, with only 6 hours of sleep, that I felt quite refreshed and energized. I also did have a lot of dreams, though the details escape me. I just remember they were more involved and longer than usual. What I did remember was there often people from my past in them, mainly from when I was a child. Throughout the day I felt pretty relaxed and focused but I think it might have been because I felt I slept well.

That night, though I went to bed late, I slept over 8 hours, which is not something I do often. That I think might be related to it. However on subsequent nights, I felt like I needed to sleep in more, and didn’t wake up as refreshed as the first time. That continued on for the rest of the time. After my second session, I also had many dreams, but didn’t wake up as refreshed.

Another thing that I found strange (and a little confusing) was that I was having these ‘mood swings’ throughout the day following the second session. I felt quite angry part of the morning, though there was no immediate reason to be, then that went away and felt happy, then later, sad, then anxious. I normally don’t experience swings like these for no reason and I was wondering if there was something happening at a deeper emotional level. I know that I have a tendency to repress strong emotion and ‘not feel much’, or maybe better to say, I’d be ‘indifferent’ to my environment rather than caring. However, while this was happening, I was able to watch this happen, not become identified with it or let it dictate my actions. It was like something was saying it was ok to allow myself to feel whatever I’m feeling and there doesn’t need to be reason. So I think it's not like you won't be experiencing these negative emotions, but it's like they don't feel so 'all-absorbing'. Osit.

As I was thinking about it over the last few days, I can’t say anything definite but there does feel like a shift inside. I can’t quite verbalize it, but if I am to try and describe it, it feels like there aren’t as many "I’s" competing for ‘control of the ship’ so to say. It’s like certain aspects inside me feel a little more integrated, and that there is someone there that the other parts will listen to instead of each trying to take control or just running off on tangents scattering my thoughts and feelings in different directions (well, not sure about the feelings part considering yesterday but perhaps that will work itself out). One could say it's something along the lines of those aspects finding ways to better co-operate with each other instead of fighting all the time. I dunno if that makes any sense but not sure I can explain it any better. Perhaps part of the difficulty is if pre-verbal issues are being addressed, 'translating' that into language is difficult since we didn't have the vocabulary for it at the time. So, still not certain how this will play out in my case, but I do think something is happening at some level, and maybe that will become more apparent as time goes on.
 
I had my third NO session on Tuesday, in the early evening after eating dinner. As before, I listened to the music and finished feeling refreshed, and this time with an absence of ‘wet eyes’. I should say that, after sleeping through for 5½ hours straight the previous night, that I felt tired by mid-afternoon, rather than late-afternoon as has been usual.

Tuesday night however, it took a lot longer than normal for me to get to sleep, and that sleep was broken, and lacked any feeling of dreams. By midday Wednesday I was totally tired. However, Wednesday night I slept for 7½ hours straight, although again with no awareness of dreams.

So, it would appear, that for me, doing NO every other day is too much, or that it is unwise to do NO in the evening. Earlier in the day may be better – perhaps the brain needs time to incorporate the ‘training before sleep time comes round. I will see how two times a week works for me.
 
I just finished session 10 a few minutes ago.

For a period, after session 2 through 8, I had a lot of "brain detox" I guess you would call it. Mood swings, return of rumination and anxiety, and just sort of up and down with that. I also had physical symptoms, increase in pain and so forth.

As reported before, after the first couple of sessions, I had increased dreaming.

Then, after session 3 or 4 I started having flashbacks of traumatic memories. Among these were "smell memories" where I would get a sudden remembering of something really quite ordinary though it may have been happening at a generally traumatic time in my life, and the smell would come with it. That was really weird. This went on for several days.

Then, at session 5, I think, I increased the frequency, having a session every other day. At first, I went through a period of craving sweets as though what was coming up (even if it was not conscious, I was having a lot of physical pain) demanded comfort food. That stopped at session 8.

Also, after session 2 through session 8 I had trouble sleeping. As I've reported, I had doubled my melatonin dose and was taking half a GabaCalm every day or so. Well, after session 9, for the past 2 nights, I've slept very well, all night, straight through. And last night I even slept 9 hours pretty much straight (got up once at about 6 am to visit the bathroom).

So, it has sure been a mixed bag so far.

About today's session: for the past few sessions I've been looking at pictures in a book about the history of earth for the past few sessions. I'll look for a bit and then, maybe halfway through, close my eyes and rest. So, today, same thing: looked at pictures a bit, read some of the captions, and then decided I wanted to close my eyes and did so. Had the most amazing gold clouds against a purple background visual experience and it just went on and on. It would alternate sides: the clouds would start like a small puff, come towards me and expand into a cloud ring and then just dissipate; right side, left side, right, left and on and on. Once the session ended and we were doing the baseline check, I noticed that this had stopped, so it was obviously an artefact of the process when it is running.

According to the visual graphs and such, things have definitely changed a lot in the last two sessions from the earlier ones though Chu and Andromeda will have to explain that!
 
I'm at 5 NO sessions (5th yesterday): nothing happened.
Just today: woke up in the mild of the night, without being able to sleep back. During the day, I was sad without reason. I'll have next session tomorrow.
 
Laura said:
According to the visual graphs and such, things have definitely changed a lot in the last two sessions from the earlier ones though Chu and Andromeda will have to explain that!

Both Andromeda and Chu here:

Well, we don't know how to interpret much yet, but we could at least infer the following:

a) the hemispheres being more balanced, with similar waves (we were told that that is more of an ideal state than when the lines cross)
b) some frequencies associated with stress, anxiety or fight-or-flight responses that used to be frequently high, having calmed down recently.
c) a more calming effect in the pre and post baselines, as if each session was having more of an immediate effect.
d) the overall energy having increased, with both hemispheres being more in sync.

That's the little we can speculate about for now in Laura's case, and based on a comparison of everyone's patterns session after session.

We are noticing some differences in people, depending on their temperament. For example, people who tend more towards anxiety felt more effects sooner. Others are feeling more subtle effects. Others go through a bit of a rough patch before noticing benefits. Others have more "stubborn brains", as our NF lady told us once, meaning that right after the session, there doesn't seem to be much difference, and it takes a while for the brain to assimilate the training. It's all interesting, but what matters the most is that so many people are noticing at least some positive effects. :cheer:
 
Yes, I've been noticing that some people say they don't notice anything, but I sure do, though it is subtle. But then, I'm very attentive to subtle things. Maybe that's the difference?

You sure don't think any differently in terms of conscious thinking, but what seems to have happened with me is that first the hard edge of the ever-present anxiety was taken off. It didn't make me less attentive to things, it just made them less scary.

Then I went through a sort of "detox" thing where I was up and down and all over the place. First dreams, then not sleeping well or enough. Body aches and pains, feeling hopeless like my brain was so broken it wouldn't ever be fixed.

Then finally, things seemed to start to calm down a bit on sessions 9 and 10.

But again I emphasize, these things are rather subtle.

I think that what might have helped was the looking at pictures in a book and only casually reading while the training was going on. In other words, I stopped being anxious about something that was supposed to help my anxiety!!!
 
France and I went to pick up the machine Tuesday and both of us have started to do a session a day.

Since we have choosen the unlimited version of the machine, we have offer to our kids the possibility to try freely the neuroptimal system.

We have also offer the possibilty to a couple of friends to try the system to maximise it utilisation. We are asking them a small amount for each treatment in order to help us pay for the monthly renting fee (1800$). We have encouraged them to take note of what they feel/notice following each treatment. We will share that info together after 5 or 10 sessions and I will share it here after that. So far, they are very pleased and enthusiasm after the first 2 treatments.

I have created a specail google agenda to handle the many appointments (it is in our home) and one of us has to be there to welcome the people and to settle them for their session. (between 3 to 5 sessions on each day and certain day up to 8 sessions)
 
I had yesterday my fourth session and I'm doing it on every other day. The first session was on a professional machine and the practitioner told me afterwards, that a lot of things were going on in my subconscious. As I remember she mentioned theta and delta waves. Overall the first three sessions were very emotional with tears and lots of different feelings during the sessions itself.

Afterwards I'm tending to be more moody, more irritable and more easily annoyed. Sometimes I can really feel anger coming up the throat and is kind of a feeling if something likes to get out. I also experienced some headaches in the beginning and yesterday it felt like if my body didn't has much strength and I had muscle aches, but I'm not sure if it has something to do with neuroptimal itself.

I'm really looking forward to every new session and I hope that it is of some help.
 
I had my 18th session yesterday. Earlier this week I was feeling stressed and overly emotional for no reason and generally out of sorts for a couple of days, so I was thinking I might have had a contraction phase, as described in the Healing Developmental Trauma book. I did EE the evening of the first day of that and that helped, but was still feeling similar the next day. That feeling generally subsided the day after that, though I think it was before my NO session that day. The NO sessions themselves continue to be relaxing.

It's a little hard to tease out the impact of the NeurOptimal since I've been testing some new supplements that are having some effects, but today I'm feeling much more relaxed and focused.
 
In the video they mention the DNA regeneration with the Neuroptimal, however, Sue's hands look very old to me: _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAh2Q6gk0ws

But maybe she is vegetarian, or something.

Neuroptimal version 3 is coming on April 17th, so those of you who want to buy the device may want to wait a bit: http://neuroptimal.com/no3-landing-page/
 
Back
Top Bottom