OCD and MAGICAL THINKING

[bjorb]

[quote author= 3D Student]Bjorn, was there something specific that pushed you into a state of little or no OCD symptoms? I know diet and knowledge gained from the forum has likely helped me a bit.[/quote]

It eases the symptoms but it didn’t fixed it for me. I thought about entity attachments a lot. Fact is that even if that is the case. It works through us, indirectly. In the end we choose to feel that way. So I decided it was just a puzzle, which can be figured out.

It was the worst around people,

I was always convinced that I had to do my utmost around people because they could die at any moment or that was the last time I would see them. Or I could ruin something that would set them to a dark path. There behavior always seemed my fault. This was with everyone.

Like said, I could hide it very well. But thanks to it I never really enjoyed one moment in my live.

Again this method helped me a lot:

I found it helpful to uncover the how and why of those thoughts.

By writing those down.

Than start to think about how those thoughts don’t serve me, why it is crazy. How completely soulless it is to carry on like that on and what thoughts are actually healthy to deal with such a situation

Last bold sentence is important.

After a while you start to realize it and it becomes real. But it takes time.

Take note it was very difficult to search for the correct healthy thoughts to replace the poisoned ones. Simply stating that I didn’t want to be crazy didn’t hold any substance. I had to find the right reasons.

Like ''I don’t want to be crazy because I can’t help others in such a state. I can’t do anything useful being like that.'' If it held substance. I could work with it. I had to arrange every thought like that and still do. OCD impacts everything. But at least I can safely say it’s not dominant anymore. But only recently. OCD is hell.

 

[Ennio]

Also, have you ever been to a doctor or therapist to help you address these OCD tendencies?

Good idea. I had a friend who would wash his hands 15-20 times a day, as well as other compulsions. Seeing a good therapist helped him a lot with it and he went on to achieve quite a lot after that.

 

[Turgon]

There's a book by Jeffrey Schwartz called The Mind and the Brain that's all about his work in dealing with OCD patients and the methodology he came up with to help his patients change their reactions to their compulsions. He's the guy that came up with the 4 R's of Re-label, Re-attribute, Re-focus and Re-value. I've only read about 1/4 of the book so there's a lot of cognitive talk about what brain functions are doing what during intrusive and obsessive thoughts. But mainly, his patients seems to have been people who compulsively performed rituals that were extreme. Like if someone were to see the number 7 and 9 together on a license plate then they would stop their car on the side of the road and wait, sometimes hours, for the letters 2 and 6 together before they would start driving again. So some pretty persistent behaviours that seemed to be due to an over-excitation in certain brain circuitry.

Here's a video with him explaining his method. Hopefully it might provide you with some answers, SunEterna.

https://youtu.be/qcrGlUHlu4M

 

[SunEterna]

I tell my therapist that "Everything is OCD." All my thoughts and actions can be traced to some form of OCD. The way I walk, talk, or the obsession to research trivial things to "know it all." You have to stop the snowball before it starts rolling down the hill. I think it's pretty useless and takes your time and life away. I find myself more often recently saying, "I hate OCD!" Though there was a point in the book OCD and Me where the author says her friend was able to deal with the shock of being in New York on 9/11 because he had severe OCD and was always in a state of anxiety.

Yeah, for me too, everything is OCD. My brain makes connection at the speed of the light. This mechanism thinks before me ! Is it me ? I doubt it sometimes !:D But, why not ? I think it's a really really bad habit ! Anxiety, apprehension, conditions, image of the self… Self confidence… fear, FEAR ! This mechanism only wants to create fear, and his mission is to create a new fear, always ! Really constructive, really constructive ! You energy and your time to create fears that will suck your energy out in conclusion !

In many ways OCD is indeed "pattern recognition run amok". Because it will pick out anything remotely threatening in your environment and link something vague to threaten you. For forgetting something, I always have the same list of daily items I carry, my Every Day Carry. Any other items specific to the trip I add to the mental list. I used to make a list of everything I take on high school field trips, but don't anymore, instead when all else fails, I usually just say, "I have the most important things." And that is enough.

What do you mean by « pattern recognition run amok » ?

Hi SunEterna. I want to ask how your diet is going as well. I remember you wrote about being keto/paleo. How is that working out? Are you getting enough omega 3 fats (DHA, EPA found in fatty fish and grass fed meats) for healthy brain function?

Also, have you ever been to a doctor or therapist to help you address these OCD tendencies?

My diet is paleo. I try not to eat much sugar. No grains. I'm paleo with a keto tendency (i eat alot of fat).:) I try to eat some omega 3 (since some days, i did before but i always lose the habit). But, this is for the last days or weeks, because 1 month i ate more fruits. Not alot, but more. I now try to really control it. But i was paleo despite that.:)

Yeah, i see a CBT therapist ! But not often these last months. I see a psychiatrist too. I am schizoid and i saw that OCD is attached to this pathology.

There behavior always seemed my fault.

Could it be coming from a bad education where the parents culpabilize the children ? The feeling of being bad too. If there was no security at home, you were in danger, you didn't had the right to live, to feel, to be happy. The needs and the war of the parents were more important than your needs. So, you didn't had the right to be yourself, their problem was your problem (i talk for me).

Take note it was very difficult to search for the correct healthy thoughts to replace the poisoned ones. Simply stating that I didn’t want to be crazy didn’t hold any substance. I had to find the right reasons.

Like ''I don’t want to be crazy because I can’t help others in such a state. I can’t do anything useful being like that.'' If it held substance.

Yeah, as we doubt alot, as we culpabilize alot, yeah, if we don't have concrete and substantial arguments and ideas to put back the balance, it is unpowerful !

Also, have you ever been to a doctor or therapist to help you address these OCD tendencies?

Good idea. I had a friend who would wash his hands 15-20 times a day, as well as other compulsions. Seeing a good therapist helped him a lot with it and he went on to achieve quite a lot after that.

I have some compulsions but... Alot of obsessions and magical thinking (if you do this, you'll be transformed)! Some compulsions but i tend not to do them because i know he puts other obsessions on the compulsions, so, it's eternal... i do it, but, just because i believe the blackmail he does and the magical thinking... but i am not relieved by compulsions, because i'm always trapped in his maze (i should just jump from the maze, because this is not necessary to go out of it with his rules, because he is pervert and sadistic, so, i should just rejoin my kingdom and leave this maze)! I have mental compulsions too. He forces me to rewrite things, for example, write things at the right moment (he says that if i don't write something before a Facebook notification has disappeared, i lose my woman consciously, because i did nothing to find what to right when i should had, but, with the stress and the consciousness that he will next again put another obession on the compulsion done even if i succeed, i do not want to do it! And also because i have a magical thinking saying that he won just because i surrended myself to his orders).

 

[SunEterna]

There's a book by Jeffrey Schwartz called The Mind and the Brain that's all about his work in dealing with OCD patients and the methodology he came up with to help his patients change their reactions to their compulsions. He's the guy that came up with the 4 R's of Re-label, Re-attribute, Re-focus and Re-value. I've only read about 1/4 of the book so there's a lot of cognitive talk about what brain functions are doing what during intrusive and obsessive thoughts. But mainly, his patients seems to have been people who compulsively performed rituals that were extreme. Like if someone were to see the number 7 and 9 together on a license plate then they would stop their car on the side of the road and wait, sometimes hours, for the letters 2 and 6 together before they would start driving again. So some pretty persistent behaviours that seemed to be due to an over-excitation in certain brain circuitry.

Here's a video with him explaining his method. Hopefully it might provide you with some answers, SunEterna.

https://youtu.be/qcrGlUHlu4M

Thanks! I'll watch it later, i am tired because of a cold! :) Peace.

 

[3DStudent]

What do you mean by « pattern recognition run amok » ?

It was a quote from the C's referring those who would invent theories about the Boston bombing victims being actors and it being all a stage. Basically that those people would see into every detail and claim, "It's a hoax because of such and such, see?" And it also was used in the context of "Flat Earthers". More forms of magical thinking. It's referenced here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,39450.msg599429.html#msg599429

 

[SunEterna]

What do you mean by « pattern recognition run amok » ?

It was a quote from the C's referring those who would invent theories about the Boston bombing victims being actors and it being all a stage. Basically that those people would see into every detail and claim, "It's a hoax because of such and such, see?" And it also was used in the context of "Flat Earthers". More forms of magical thinking. It's referenced here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,39450.msg599429.html#msg599429

Still don't understand, sorry. I took a look at the session, but despite this... Sorry, i'm french! :)

 

[3DStudent]

What do you mean by « pattern recognition run amok » ?

It was a quote from the C's referring those who would invent theories about the Boston bombing victims being actors and it being all a stage. Basically that those people would see into every detail and claim, "It's a hoax because of such and such, see?" And it also was used in the context of "Flat Earthers". More forms of magical thinking. It's referenced here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,39450.msg599429.html#msg599429

Still don't understand, sorry. I took a look at the session, but despite this... Sorry, i'm french! :)

Ok. It means you see patterns when there aren't really any patterns. You see things that aren't really there. Trying to connect dots when there is really no connection among them.

 

[Eulenspiegel]

What do you mean by « pattern recognition run amok » ?

We humans have evolved to recognise patterns wherever we go. This ability to see connections can go haywire- seeing patterns where you know there aren't any- seeing faces in cloud formations or connecting premises which aren't related to reach other.

In my case, I used to rearrange carpets around me because they were in "geometrically inauspicious" arrangements on the floor. I literally had to do that every time I walked through my room, because otherwise I'd get really uncomfortable unless I arranged it in a way that made me feel secure and confident. At times, I literally couldn't go on with my day, unless I followed that subconscious need through.
For several years in my teens, I worked hard at becoming aware of such irrational needs and refused to follow them through. It eventually worked- but only with those damn carpets

There are other OCD needs I am battling, such as the need to finish a book from cover to cover.

Thinking back, much of my magical thinking is based on associating auspiciousness or in-auspiciousness with the direction things are facing around me. I am otherwise very rational and still can't explain where this sense comes from, as nobody around me does that

 

[Ennio]

I have some compulsions but... Alot of obsessions and magical thinking (if you do this, you'll be transformed)! Some compulsions but i tend not to do them because i know he puts other obsessions on the compulsions, so, it's eternal... i do it, but, just because i believe the blackmail he does and the magical thinking... but i am not relieved by compulsions, because i'm always trapped in his maze (i should just jump from the maze, because this is not necessary to go out of it with his rules, because he is pervert and sadistic, so, i should just rejoin my kingdom and leave this maze)! I have mental compulsions too. He forces me to rewrite things, for example, write things at the right moment (he says that if i don't write something before a Facebook notification has disappeared, i lose my woman consciously, because i did nothing to find what to right when i should had, but, with the stress and the consciousness that he will next again put another obession on the compulsion done even if i succeed, i do not want to do it! And also because i have a magical thinking saying that he won just because i surrended myself to his orders).

Sounds like some awful, stressful and energy-wasting thought loops that you are experiencing there. Though I think (and hope) that writing about it as you are is helpful in some way because you are at least shining a light on the thought processes that keeps you 'in the maze'. Another way to think about what's occurring is that you are thinking emotionally. That there is a part of your mind that is capable of thinking of things in a rational or reasonable way but that potential somehow gets overwhelmed with another part of your mind that is in fight or flight, and reacts a lot to those intrusive thoughts you describe. That said, have you ever had any successes addressing these thoughts in real time? In other words, have you ever said to yourself while its happening something like: "this thought is just silly, a time waster and I could have just spent that last hour doing something so much better. Enough of this!". And then went on to do something else?

What did you mean when you wrote "i lose my woman consciously" in the paragraph above?

Earlier in your post you said:

Yeah, i see a CBT therapist ! But not often these last months. I see a psychiatrist too. I am schizoid and i saw that OCD is attached to this pathology.

Just wondering what your or your psychiatrist's understanding of being schizoid is. Did your psychiatrist come up with this or is this a term you think just fits? Did your psychiatrist prescribe anything? If he or she did, it may be interesting to know what it is in case someone else here has had experience with it. Also, have you given thought to continuing to see your CBT again? As was mentioned earlier, this type of therapy may be very helpful.

 

[SunEterna]

What do you mean by « pattern recognition run amok » ?

It was a quote from the C's referring those who would invent theories about the Boston bombing victims being actors and it being all a stage. Basically that those people would see into every detail and claim, "It's a hoax because of such and such, see?" And it also was used in the context of "Flat Earthers". More forms of magical thinking. It's referenced here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,39450.msg599429.html#msg599429

Still don't understand, sorry. I took a look at the session, but despite this... Sorry, i'm french! :)

Ok. It means you see patterns when there aren't really any patterns. You see things that aren't really there. Trying to connect dots when there is really no connection among them.

I see, thanks!

 

[SunEterna]

Yes, 3D Student, that's totally true, OCD is just pattern recognition run amok!

 

[SunEterna]

We humans have evolved to recognise patterns wherever we go. This ability to see connections can go haywire- seeing patterns where you know there aren't any- seeing faces in cloud formations or connecting premises which aren't related to reach other.

In my case, I used to rearrange carpets around me because they were in "geometrically inauspicious" arrangements on the floor. I literally had to do that every time I walked through my room, because otherwise I'd get really uncomfortable unless I arranged it in a way that made me feel secure and confident. At times, I literally couldn't go on with my day, unless I followed that subconscious need through.
For several years in my teens, I worked hard at becoming aware of such irrational needs and refused to follow them through. It eventually worked- but only with those damn carpets

There are other OCD needs I am battling, such as the need to finish a book from cover to cover.

That's crazy, yeah, where does it come from, i am totally like this too...

Yeah, while i read, for example, i don't know what to do? All, everything? And if i want to read just a part of the text? Sometimes, it tells me to read again a sentence and then puts inauspicious powers to, "reading again", "not reading again"... Always putting inauspicious ideas to acts... What a "demon"!

Thinking back, much of my magical thinking is based on associating auspiciousness or in-auspiciousness with the direction things are facing around me. I am otherwise very rational and still can't explain where this sense comes from, as nobody around me does that

Yes, totally!

Peace.

 

[SunEterna]

I have some compulsions but... Alot of obsessions and magical thinking (if you do this, you'll be transformed)! Some compulsions but i tend not to do them because i know he puts other obsessions on the compulsions, so, it's eternal... i do it, but, just because i believe the blackmail he does and the magical thinking... but i am not relieved by compulsions, because i'm always trapped in his maze (i should just jump from the maze, because this is not necessary to go out of it with his rules, because he is pervert and sadistic, so, i should just rejoin my kingdom and leave this maze)! I have mental compulsions too. He forces me to rewrite things, for example, write things at the right moment (he says that if i don't write something before a Facebook notification has disappeared, i lose my woman consciously, because i did nothing to find what to right when i should had, but, with the stress and the consciousness that he will next again put another obession on the compulsion done even if i succeed, i do not want to do it! And also because i have a magical thinking saying that he won just because i surrended myself to his orders).

Sounds like some awful, stressful and energy-wasting thought loops that you are experiencing there. Though I think (and hope) that writing about it as you are is helpful in some way because you are at least shining a light on the thought processes that keeps you 'in the maze'. Another way to think about what's occurring is that you are thinking emotionally. That there is a part of your mind that is capable of thinking of things in a rational or reasonable way but that potential somehow gets overwhelmed with another part of your mind that is in fight or flight, and reacts a lot to those intrusive thoughts you describe. That said, have you ever had any successes addressing these thoughts in real time? In other words, have you ever said to yourself while its happening something like: "this thought is just silly, a time waster and I could have just spent that last hour doing something so much better. Enough of this!". And then went on to do something else?

What did you mean when you wrote "i lose my woman consciously" in the paragraph above?

Earlier in your post you said:

Yeah, i see a CBT therapist ! But not often these last months. I see a psychiatrist too. I am schizoid and i saw that OCD is attached to this pathology.

Just wondering what your or your psychiatrist's understanding of being schizoid is. Did your psychiatrist come up with this or is this a term you think just fits? Did your psychiatrist prescribe anything? If he or she did, it may be interesting to know what it is in case someone else here has had experience with it. Also, have you given thought to continuing to see your CBT again? As was mentioned earlier, this type of therapy may be very helpful.

Hello! :)
I'll respond to that later!
Peace.

 

[Pierre]

Thinking back, much of my magical thinking is based on associating auspiciousness or in-auspiciousness with the direction things are facing around me. I am otherwise very rational and still can't explain where this sense comes from, as nobody around me does that

Yes, totally!

Here is a tentative explanation to some possible origins of OCD that doesn't have much to do with mental illness as you will see.

OCD seems to center around the idea that doing the right thing (item locations, body movements, repetitions) will influence the future in a positive way ('auspiciousness'). These notions of locations, patterns and movements have a common denominator: geometry.

Coincidently, I remember Laura explaining one of the books she was reading. It was about the Sumerians. As surprising as it may seem, this civilization spent thousands of years trying to understand how the shape and forms of their ideograms interacted with the Universe.

There are similar examples that can be found today: reiki at the human scale, Feng-Shui at the house scale or even crop circles at a planetary scale. They all seem to circle around the idea that some geometric shapes and arrangements can trigger positive interactions with cosmic forces.

The Romans (probably through the Etruscans) had an approach similar to the Sumerians. They were focusing on influencing and guessing the future, however their main subject of research was not ideograms but sacrifices. They spent centuries and wrote endless treaties about the interpretations of signs (particularly organs of sacrificed creatures) in relation with future events and they designed thousands of rituals (mostly based on sacrifices) were they controlled every minute details (time, planet location, clothes, specificities of the sacrificial creature and the sacrifiers...) in order to positively influence the future.

Today, we may discern remnants of this belief system in chiromancy or tea leaf reading. In some kind of "as above so below" approach, the palm of the hand, the tea leaf, the entrails of a sacrificed animals are considered as a microcosm reflecting the macrocosm including the future.

All those belief systems may stem from a common ancient origin which knew some of the forgotten geometric connections between our microcosm and the macrocosm. After all geometric shapes, patterns and forms are one of the most fundamental type of information, which in turn is the basic source from which springs all creation whether of material or energetic nature.