OCD and MAGICAL THINKING

[obyvatel]

[quote author=Pierre]
OCD seems to center around the idea that doing the right thing (item locations, body movements, repetitions) will influence the future in a positive way ('auspiciousness'). These notions of locations, patterns and movements have a common denominator: geometry.
[/quote]

In the Vedic system, geometrical patterns (space related), ritualized actions (time related) and sounds (energy) were used for influencing the future in such a way. It is said to have reached a level where the expectation was that if the entire ritual was performed correctly, the results were guaranteed. The speculative theory behind such a belief is that archetypal patterns (or specific patterns in information fields) corresponding to the beneficial outcome could be materialized through intention and specific space-time-energy patterns.

Establishing a direct causal link between the ritual and the desired outcome is difficult if not impossible with the existing state of knowledge about how the universe works. Carl Jung's synchronicity principle - which is described as acausal connectedness of phenomena - or meaningful coincidences - can be used to understand the belief. Some forms of modern OCD can stem from such a belief and be a devolved caricature of such ancient practices. In this sense OCD is archetypal "pattern recognition run amok".

 

[SunEterna]

Sounds like some awful, stressful and energy-wasting thought loops that you are experiencing there. Though I think (and hope) that writing about it as you are is helpful in some way because you are at least shining a light on the thought processes that keeps you 'in the maze'. Another way to think about what's occurring is that you are thinking emotionally. That there is a part of your mind that is capable of thinking of things in a rational or reasonable way but that potential somehow gets overwhelmed with another part of your mind that is in fight or flight, and reacts a lot to those intrusive thoughts you describe. That said, have you ever had any successes addressing these thoughts in real time? In other words, have you ever said to yourself while its happening something like: "this thought is just silly, a time waster and I could have just spent that last hour doing something so much better. Enough of this!". And then went on to do something else?

Yeah. Your message helped me a lot, don't know why. I just tried to put this way of thinking (negative way, with worry and paranoia, judging others too) away. To concentrate myself on something positive. I told myself that irrational fears which are not useful in the daily life, in life in general, are useless (that's sound logical LOL). So, i connected myself to something positive. Fear that nourish itself for nothing is not good. So, i connected myself to the good way of thinking (good because you feel good, you think good things about others [who deserve it, sure, not evil persons], trying to see the positive, not seeing the world by this "anxiety filter", your mind telling you, "you have to feel bad, that's normal"). Some ideas come into my mind, obsessions, and sometimes i don't know what to do with this, i have fear. I fear the fear. I think that i deserve to feel bad, to have fears, to think bad things and thus being anxious. But i understood that this is just a bad habit. I succeeded not listening to the fear and the bad thoughts, and it was really positive because i was more confident and more respecting others and appreciating things because i was less in this apprehension and anxiety state of being. More i did it, the more it was easy and automatic to think in a good way. But, the bad mechanism tries to come back, and i lost a little the ability to nourish the good way of thinking. It's always like that, i always lose the ability of doing something. Always a "depression" coming here. But, i have to reconnect myself to the good. I can't and we can't recover in a row, we have to be patient and confident. Sometimes the fear comes back, and we are afraid of the fear, thinking that it will fill us... "And if this bad way of thinking was the good one, the truth?" A doubt, the doubt comes and put a mess. But, i guess that this is just a little "depression", i have to be confident, because thinking in a good way is really cool!! :D

What did you mean when you wrote "i lose my woman consciously" in the paragraph above?

For the thing about "losing consciously my woman", i was saying that if i didn't make what he told me, it was like signing a contract telling this. That's i signed a contract (by not listening to his orders) in which it says that i will lose my woman (blackmail).

Just wondering what your or your psychiatrist's understanding of being schizoid is. Did your psychiatrist come up with this or is this a term you think just fits? Did your psychiatrist prescribe anything? If he or she did, it may be interesting to know what it is in case someone else here has had experience with it. Also, have you given thought to continuing to see your CBT again? As was mentioned earlier, this type of therapy may be very helpful.

A psychiatrist told me this. She didn't tell me why. But when i searched, and when my woman searched, it was very clear. But, i see that when i don't listen to the obsessions, when i connect myself to something positive, when i am confident in the good and in the life, i am less like this. This is the doubt, the obsession of the doubt that makes me become withdrawn, because it tells me bad things about me and others, trying to apply the magical thinking if i say things, etc, so, if i believe it, i feel bad and i feel stressed then i could not talk because of the fear. But, also, i had the fear of being ridiculous. A lot of thinking were avoiding me from speaking. She told me i was kind of schizoid, but, it could be for some reasons that i can change that i was having this schizoid trait of not talking much to others. But, the others gave me fear, i had the fear of being rejected or mocked. I have a toxic shame of myself. Well, i have it less now that i nourished the good way of thinking. I take neuroleptics that i am withdrawing from, doing a tap withdrawal. But, it was not given to me in relation of this schizoid diagnostic. It was for my magical thinking avoiding me sleeping, i was insomniac. But, 13 years i was given this same neuroleptic, and the diagnostic was speaking about schizoid thing too, or schizophrenic, but my new psychiatrist told me i was not schizophrenic. Well, i don't think things are fixed like this, sticking yourself to a diagnose, well, it could have causes, and changing the way you react, you listening to these fear that the causes produce, can make the difference.

Well, peace to you all.

 

[SunEterna]

Thinking back, much of my magical thinking is based on associating auspiciousness or in-auspiciousness with the direction things are facing around me. I am otherwise very rational and still can't explain where this sense comes from, as nobody around me does that

Yes, totally!

Here is a tentative explanation to some possible origins of OCD that doesn't have much to do with mental illness as you will see.

OCD seems to center around the idea that doing the right thing (item locations, body movements, repetitions) will influence the future in a positive way ('auspiciousness'). These notions of locations, patterns and movements have a common denominator: geometry.

Coincidently, I remember Laura explaining one of the books she was reading. It was about the Sumerians. As surprising as it may seem, this civilization spent thousands of years trying to understand how the shape and forms of their ideograms interacted with the Universe.

There are similar examples that can be found today: reiki at the human scale, Feng-Shui at the house scale or even crop circles at a planetary scale. They all seem to circle around the idea that some geometric shapes and arrangements can trigger positive interactions with cosmic forces.

The Romans (probably through the Etruscans) had an approach similar to the Sumerians. They were focusing on influencing and guessing the future, however their main subject of research was not ideograms but sacrifices. They spent centuries and wrote endless treaties about the interpretations of signs (particularly organs of sacrificed creatures) in relation with future events and they designed thousands of rituals (mostly based on sacrifices) were they controlled every minute details (time, planet location, clothes, specificities of the sacrificial creature and the sacrifiers...) in order to positively influence the future.

Today, we may discern remnants of this belief system in chiromancy or tea leaf reading. In some kind of "as above so below" approach, the palm of the hand, the tea leaf, the entrails of a sacrificed animals are considered as a microcosm reflecting the macrocosm including the future.

All those belief systems may stem from a common ancient origin which knew some of the forgotten geometric connections between our microcosm and the macrocosm. After all geometric shapes, patterns and forms are one of the most fundamental type of information, which in turn is the basic source from which springs all creation whether of material or energetic nature.

Interesting!
But, if i may, for me, it is a bit different. You say that all of these rituals are used to obtain some results in a future. For me, it is a bit different, so, because it is orders, he forces me to do things (compulsions?) in the present, in order to prevent what he wants to apply here & now (but sometimes in the future). But yes, it can be a rest of these ancient practices, sounds probable, why not. But, it comes like orders in my mind. I am not relieved by the compulsions. Once you do a compulsion, it is eternal, you have to do compulsions all the time because doing a compulsion is welcoming the fear and thus it produces a snowball effect because the enemy in inside your kingdom and makes the rules. I would say that you have to be the king, and cast away the intruders from your kingdom, by not doing the compulsions (which are concessions) and not listening to the obsessions.

Peace.

 

[3DStudent]

I had forgotten that OCD can manifest as intrusive thoughts as well. I found this 45 minute video below helpful to dispel them. I usually will use a distilled version of Jeffrey Schwartz's 4 steps method and just mentally say, "It's my brain." Some interesting points were:

• Spoiler: if you want to watch it first

  The thoughts target people and things you care about. This makes sense as this is basically an energetic drain if you give them any credence, so it goes for what you value. And there was the idea of impulsion, which I hadn't heard of.