Organic Portals: Human variation
- Thread starter Laura
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Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
Now leg shaking as an OP characteristic? Oh come ON. I shake my leg when I'm impatient (it's going a mile a minute now) or listening to music, or if it's falling asleep, etc. And if you spot somebody on a bus shaking their leg, and have never seen that person before in your life, to even "speculate" they are an OP because of it? And what if they do stop it when you look at them. If somebody is staring at me I will probably stop everything I'm doing to wonder why also.
Repeat, the best we can do is SPECULATE. And what good does that even do? How do we know WE'VE even come far enough along the path to be speculating about somebody else???
Sorry if I sound cranky, I'm still in the process of ingesting my morning coffee.
"most ops I know" "My biggest challenge in dealing with ops" "that's what ops tend to do"... Um, HOW do you know what you're dealing with??? How do you know YOU are not an op?? I'm sorry, but when I see people tossing of remarks like that, as if they have just graduated from "Detecting OPs 101", I wonder where they get off sounding so SURE they know what they are dealling with. Sounds a lot like self-importance to me.Ruth said:
Now leg shaking as an OP characteristic? Oh come ON. I shake my leg when I'm impatient (it's going a mile a minute now) or listening to music, or if it's falling asleep, etc. And if you spot somebody on a bus shaking their leg, and have never seen that person before in your life, to even "speculate" they are an OP because of it? And what if they do stop it when you look at them. If somebody is staring at me I will probably stop everything I'm doing to wonder why also.
Repeat, the best we can do is SPECULATE. And what good does that even do? How do we know WE'VE even come far enough along the path to be speculating about somebody else???
Sorry if I sound cranky, I'm still in the process of ingesting my morning coffee.
brainwave
Jedi Master
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
So OP experts please enlighten me on how such speculations may have some validity because I haven't seen the evidence yet.
I am no expert in 'spotting an OP'. Based on what we've learned from the cassiopaean material most people are not experts. The focus should be on our own 'OP' like behaviors. If I find many of these behaviors within myself and it means I am an OP, there is nothing I can do other than learn as much I can and treat people the way I would want to be treated. I have a feeling that OP doesn't mean bad or extrememe STS. It is a state of being that can serve both bad and good. Currently OPs can and are manipulated to serve STS purposes. Then again so are most of us. I don't think leg/knee shaking will tell us which is which; rather, the lies we choose to believe and how we treat others is a better indication.
I have to agree with Shar here. I shake my leg too, especially when I am impatient but also when I am very focused on a given task. Implying that restless leg shaking is a sign of being an OP triggers my sez who and what evidence type questions.Shar said:
So OP experts please enlighten me on how such speculations may have some validity because I haven't seen the evidence yet.
I am no expert in 'spotting an OP'. Based on what we've learned from the cassiopaean material most people are not experts. The focus should be on our own 'OP' like behaviors. If I find many of these behaviors within myself and it means I am an OP, there is nothing I can do other than learn as much I can and treat people the way I would want to be treated. I have a feeling that OP doesn't mean bad or extrememe STS. It is a state of being that can serve both bad and good. Currently OPs can and are manipulated to serve STS purposes. Then again so are most of us. I don't think leg/knee shaking will tell us which is which; rather, the lies we choose to believe and how we treat others is a better indication.
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
Further, I will speculate that individuals who do NOT shake their leg or engage in similar rhythmic movements, are more likely to be machines which, when not operating a specific protocol, more or less go "blank."
I'll join the chorus here: I'm a leg shaker from way back, and so is Ark. All my kids do it, the SOTT team does it... heck, everybody I am close to does it. So, if we are going to use leg shaking as some kind of sign, I would suggest that it is a sign of the souled being who really wants to "shake a leg" and get outta Dodge!nktulloch said:
Further, I will speculate that individuals who do NOT shake their leg or engage in similar rhythmic movements, are more likely to be machines which, when not operating a specific protocol, more or less go "blank."
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
But why limit to leg shaking. How about people who pull their eyebrows or twirl thier moustache or caress thier beards? I have noticed this in some people that I interact with. I remember reading something about eyebrow twirling in Mark Hedsel's the Zelator and that there was some esoteric meaning attached to it but I have not been able to find anything further about it. Oh, and by the way I am a leg/knee shaker as well. ;)
But why limit to leg shaking. How about people who pull their eyebrows or twirl thier moustache or caress thier beards? I have noticed this in some people that I interact with. I remember reading something about eyebrow twirling in Mark Hedsel's the Zelator and that there was some esoteric meaning attached to it but I have not been able to find anything further about it. Oh, and by the way I am a leg/knee shaker as well. ;)
joejoeba
Jedi
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
And yes this is relatively vague.
as a footnote though, the amount of 'studies' I've had to decline in relation to my son has certainly kept me mindfull of the attention one has to pay to the feasible meddling out there.
My son was born prematurely ( 3 months) one of two ever to survive in the hospital's history at 23 weeks. During this period I have heard alot of other peoples stories. I have discussed many aspects of side effects and symptoms as a result of such an entrance into the world. One of the things I have discussed came partially from a story read in a local paranormal discussion mag. It lead o some interesting accounts from both and american and a brit at my hospital about the growing theory that the sense of being tampered with and probed and invaded with tubes can stay in the subconscious of a baby as it grows to adulthood. Normally one would expect all to be forgotten, but something lingers on . I believe someone out there is drawing parallels with abduction stories and intensive care.anart said:
And yes this is relatively vague.
as a footnote though, the amount of 'studies' I've had to decline in relation to my son has certainly kept me mindfull of the attention one has to pay to the feasible meddling out there.
Ruth
The Living Force
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
What on earth is 'OP like behaviour'?! Surely you mean STS behaviour? There is no such thing as 'OP like behaviour'! Any bad behaviour evidenced is STS behaviour. It is not 'OP like behaviour'. That's a nonsense that people will have to let go off........ therefore (shock an horror) bad behaviour is not a sign of OP-ness. I still can't believe that people are still barking up this wrong tree. What for?? This must be where the idea that "We are all OPs until we chose not to be" came from.
This is completely incorrect and I don't believe it for a minute... The correct thing to say would be, we are all STS until we chose not to be.
and as for:
I have to agree with you here too. What has something physical got to do with something soulwise? Don't think there's much of a connection there. Mind you, that's what I THOUGHT I said... :Dnktulloch said:
I can't see any OP 'experts' either, just people tending to project their own assumptions/reactions onto other people. Mind you, the whole OPs thing is a veritable can of worms and consequently becomes an interesting talking point. I'd like to speculate here that the only people who don't give a hoot about it are OPs. Why would they, if its just not interesting or meaningful to them?nktulloch said:
Why would anyone want to 'spot the OP'. They are such simple creatures. It would be like someone going round going "Oooh look! There's a snail!" or, "Oh my God! There's a tree!" Admitedly this is an exaggeration, but I mean, you'd have to start saying, "So what?", wouldn't you? Its far more interesting (even necessary for our own protection) to study 'souled' people - and by that, I mean the individuated type (ie. the non-OP). And of course psychopaths.nktulloch said:
What on earth is 'OP like behaviour'?! Surely you mean STS behaviour? There is no such thing as 'OP like behaviour'! Any bad behaviour evidenced is STS behaviour. It is not 'OP like behaviour'. That's a nonsense that people will have to let go off........ therefore (shock an horror) bad behaviour is not a sign of OP-ness. I still can't believe that people are still barking up this wrong tree. What for?? This must be where the idea that "We are all OPs until we chose not to be" came from.
This is completely incorrect and I don't believe it for a minute... The correct thing to say would be, we are all STS until we chose not to be.
and as for:
It would be kind of ironic if the people who think they are manipulated (us) are actually the ones manipulating OPs - or at least representative of those that do. Afterall, we are STS, so it would not surprise me at all if OPs are first and foremost manipulated by non-OPs.
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
Uh, Ruth, you're doing it again... "They are such simple creatures." "It's far more interesting to study 'souled' people" Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean, cuz I'm sure you don't have some sort of X-ray vision to tell the difference...Ruth said:
Ruth
The Living Force
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
They are two completely different things. Why confuse one with the other?
X-ray vision is fine for one type of physical 'seeing', accept where the differences are not physical. Then, a person needs to ask themselves, when they think they 'see' something different about people, what motivates them to declare these differences? It may not be the same thing that motivates another. Since, we are not all the same.
Imo, there is a difference between 'seeing'; how a person 'sees'; what they 'see' and then, how a person responds towards the object or person/s that they are 'seeing' (perhaps in a different light).Shar said:
They are two completely different things. Why confuse one with the other?
X-ray vision is fine for one type of physical 'seeing', accept where the differences are not physical. Then, a person needs to ask themselves, when they think they 'see' something different about people, what motivates them to declare these differences? It may not be the same thing that motivates another. Since, we are not all the same.
knowledge_of_self
The Living Force
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
As I have stated in a prior post in this thread I think a more logical and 'safer' root of distinguishing differences in people and in your self is to read books such as Ponerology, Unholy Hungers, In Sheep's Clothing, Mask of Sanity, The Myth of Sanity, and the Sociopath Next Door so that you can get a better grasp of psychopathy/ponerology. In this way you can look more within to see the psychopathic/pathocratic traits put in you throughout your own life experiences. And then you can compare your own discovered pathocratic/psychopathic traits with those who you 'see' as having the same type of program. Also, remember it is always easier to recognize something in another, than within our selves. That is why an objective external mirror is needed.
Nina
I'm not really clear on the statement above. But differences don't generally mean that someone is an OP for having different characteristics than us. Remember... we have been programmed all of our lives through our parents, teachers, religion, social mores, etc... from the moment we are born. And let's not forget our interactions with our surroundings. And most of us have interacted with a "ponerized" person at some point in our life that has had a negative affect on us. Barbra Hort describes it in her book Unholy Hungers as "Vampirism." All of these programs and interactions give us a different set of characteristics. So telling an OP apart from a non-OP is pretty much an impossible task imo.Ruth said:
Ruth I don't think Shar was saying X-ray vision in a literal sense of the word. I think Shar is just trying to understand how it is that you can tell the difference between OPs and non-OPs, as it is a very difficult task. So difficult in fact, that if you are able to do such a thing (which most people are not) it is a logical assumption to think that the person with this ability, has some sort of external power like "X-Ray vision", but it is not literal.
As I have stated in a prior post in this thread I think a more logical and 'safer' root of distinguishing differences in people and in your self is to read books such as Ponerology, Unholy Hungers, In Sheep's Clothing, Mask of Sanity, The Myth of Sanity, and the Sociopath Next Door so that you can get a better grasp of psychopathy/ponerology. In this way you can look more within to see the psychopathic/pathocratic traits put in you throughout your own life experiences. And then you can compare your own discovered pathocratic/psychopathic traits with those who you 'see' as having the same type of program. Also, remember it is always easier to recognize something in another, than within our selves. That is why an objective external mirror is needed.
Nina
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
Thanks Nina, yes that is what I meant. Ruth seems to sound matter-of-factly that she can tell an OP from a souled being, I was just questioning how so. The X-ray vision comment was not mean to be taken iterally.knowledge_of_self said:
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
Ruth, OP's just represent a different "sort" of person, and I think they are as fascinating to study as psychopaths, souled people, and every other "kind" of person. All having different internal configurations (with some similarities), and the more we understand every "kind" of person, the better off we'll be, osit.
Having said that, the idea of OP, although supported by various evidence, is still theoretical. We don't even know what a soul is and what it isn't - we have some hypotheses but until we have working knowledge that CAN be verified and reliably applied, there is no sense in "OP spotting", osit. There certainly are people that simply are unable to grok certain sorts of concepts, often being "stuck" on certain level and unable to understand above that level, and they do this consistently regardless of subject matter, which, if observed over a period of time, creates the impression that there's some deficiency in them, something preventing them from understanding things at a certain level. But this can also happen to people that simply are heavily programmed to such a degree that their minds have an artificial box, full of blocks and buffers.
However, there is a subtle difference there that I noticed, which might present a clue. I noticed that some people who seem to be very heavily programmed and unable to escape certain thinking CAN think on a higher abstract level when the subject matter has to do with something outside of their programming - assuming you can find that hole that their programming hasn't yet "covered". But once you find that subject that does not trigger sacred cows and forces them into pre-programmed thought loops, it's like a totally different person. Conversely, I also noticed that other people seem to be simply limited in all subject matter, that they simply are stuck in a "box" that does not seem to be sacred-cow based, as it persists with every topic/subject and seems to do more with their mind and thinking process in general.
The C's did talk about intellectual capacity being different in people, so this could of course be an explanation which might have nothing to do with a soul. But there's a subtle difference there too, it's not even so much critical thinking - they might be capable of critical thinking, but even that critical thinking is stuck in a box, and although within that box they might have amazing mental flexibility, that box still exists, and it's very hard for me to define the nature of the box exactly - it's hard to put my finger on exactly what this difference is. Some subjects just happen to perfectly fit within that box, and never require you to think on a higher level - and in those subjects they can easily excel and think critically and logically and be correct. Other subjects rely on more abstract and "esoteric" thinking due to their inherent nature, and that's where it becomes more obvious that those people have some sort of limitation that they cannot seem to go around. But it's still not clear to me just "what" those people are and what they aren't. And it's definitely not easy to instantly know when you're dealing with such an individual, at least for me, because of how many different reasons there are for people to be "out of the loop" with certain subjects or thinking approaches. And when factoring intellectual capacity into the picture, the waters are muddied even more. So while there may be subtle differences, usually it takes a long time before you can begin to rule out things like "intellectual capacity" - you can't just tell right away, osit.
Anyway that's just been my experience, and it's all just a hypothesis. And I should add, I'm a leg shaker, in fact I was shaking my legs as I noticed/read this thread. I usually do it when I'm not in contact with other people, but doing something like reading things online etc. I also tap and make all sorts of "beats" with my fingers/hands if my hands have nothing to do. I think probably those 2 things are related, although I do the "finger-beat" thing now also cuz it's fun to do, to see what sorts of new beats/combinations I can come up with - sometimes I impress myself with how complicated I can make them, it's like having your own portable drumset! :D
I think it's burning of excess energy, but I don't think it's because I got that energy from "feeding" on other people necessarily. Probably due to my lack of natural exercise and movement - I spend a lot of time just sitting on the computer - at work, and then at home. So I guess my body finds its own ways to "move" or something. It does help to relax and focus, probably what Laura mentioned, that repetitive rhythmic aspect of it. I know some people are more "antsy" than others, some can sit perfectly still, others have difficulty with that. I think I'm the latter.
I should mention that today I did a lot of exercise (pushups, situps, etc), so my muscles are pretty tired - and yet I shake anyway. So I don't think it's lack of exercise, at least not today - so either it wasn't enough exercise, or there's a supplementary reason for the shaking? Dunno..
Ruth, OP's just represent a different "sort" of person, and I think they are as fascinating to study as psychopaths, souled people, and every other "kind" of person. All having different internal configurations (with some similarities), and the more we understand every "kind" of person, the better off we'll be, osit.
Having said that, the idea of OP, although supported by various evidence, is still theoretical. We don't even know what a soul is and what it isn't - we have some hypotheses but until we have working knowledge that CAN be verified and reliably applied, there is no sense in "OP spotting", osit. There certainly are people that simply are unable to grok certain sorts of concepts, often being "stuck" on certain level and unable to understand above that level, and they do this consistently regardless of subject matter, which, if observed over a period of time, creates the impression that there's some deficiency in them, something preventing them from understanding things at a certain level. But this can also happen to people that simply are heavily programmed to such a degree that their minds have an artificial box, full of blocks and buffers.
However, there is a subtle difference there that I noticed, which might present a clue. I noticed that some people who seem to be very heavily programmed and unable to escape certain thinking CAN think on a higher abstract level when the subject matter has to do with something outside of their programming - assuming you can find that hole that their programming hasn't yet "covered". But once you find that subject that does not trigger sacred cows and forces them into pre-programmed thought loops, it's like a totally different person. Conversely, I also noticed that other people seem to be simply limited in all subject matter, that they simply are stuck in a "box" that does not seem to be sacred-cow based, as it persists with every topic/subject and seems to do more with their mind and thinking process in general.
The C's did talk about intellectual capacity being different in people, so this could of course be an explanation which might have nothing to do with a soul. But there's a subtle difference there too, it's not even so much critical thinking - they might be capable of critical thinking, but even that critical thinking is stuck in a box, and although within that box they might have amazing mental flexibility, that box still exists, and it's very hard for me to define the nature of the box exactly - it's hard to put my finger on exactly what this difference is. Some subjects just happen to perfectly fit within that box, and never require you to think on a higher level - and in those subjects they can easily excel and think critically and logically and be correct. Other subjects rely on more abstract and "esoteric" thinking due to their inherent nature, and that's where it becomes more obvious that those people have some sort of limitation that they cannot seem to go around. But it's still not clear to me just "what" those people are and what they aren't. And it's definitely not easy to instantly know when you're dealing with such an individual, at least for me, because of how many different reasons there are for people to be "out of the loop" with certain subjects or thinking approaches. And when factoring intellectual capacity into the picture, the waters are muddied even more. So while there may be subtle differences, usually it takes a long time before you can begin to rule out things like "intellectual capacity" - you can't just tell right away, osit.
Anyway that's just been my experience, and it's all just a hypothesis. And I should add, I'm a leg shaker, in fact I was shaking my legs as I noticed/read this thread. I usually do it when I'm not in contact with other people, but doing something like reading things online etc. I also tap and make all sorts of "beats" with my fingers/hands if my hands have nothing to do. I think probably those 2 things are related, although I do the "finger-beat" thing now also cuz it's fun to do, to see what sorts of new beats/combinations I can come up with - sometimes I impress myself with how complicated I can make them, it's like having your own portable drumset! :D
I think it's burning of excess energy, but I don't think it's because I got that energy from "feeding" on other people necessarily. Probably due to my lack of natural exercise and movement - I spend a lot of time just sitting on the computer - at work, and then at home. So I guess my body finds its own ways to "move" or something. It does help to relax and focus, probably what Laura mentioned, that repetitive rhythmic aspect of it. I know some people are more "antsy" than others, some can sit perfectly still, others have difficulty with that. I think I'm the latter.
I should mention that today I did a lot of exercise (pushups, situps, etc), so my muscles are pretty tired - and yet I shake anyway. So I don't think it's lack of exercise, at least not today - so either it wasn't enough exercise, or there's a supplementary reason for the shaking? Dunno..
K
kommunikationisthekey
Guest
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
I wish to confess... I am too a...."leg shaker"..... and ya know, the most horrible thing coming from it... is annoying those around me....
So I agree with the many whom have responded....that it probably is not a sign that one is an... dun dun dun..... OP........
I notice that I do it when I'm nervous... or excited... which I suppose are similar things. When I'm talking about an idea or I'm excited about one, after a minute, or quite possibly a few, I'll notice, my feet and legs just start tapping. Much of the time I won't pay too much attention to it because I recognize it as a "nervous tick"... but it does seem to bother others much more than it bothers me. Although I've noticed that I do it more and more infrequently as I used to....
One would think it'd be the other way around since it is my leg doin' the shakin'..... but apparently I'm doing it just to annoy you...the OP....... no... not OP as in "Organic Portal".... you, OP as in... the Original Poster... boy, this sure can get confusing sometimes a bit huh?... but yeah... consciously or subconsciously my intention must be to annoy you... with my nervous twitch of.... leg shaking.... gotta watch out for them leg shakers... next thing ya know.... I'll be trying to run for president and taking over the world with my dang-ed NWO....... but you'll be able to warn others by my UNSTOPPABLE.. shaking leg....
Sorry for the sarcastic attitude ...."elevate"..... but... come on.... leg shaking a sign of OPs???? Like many have said here... this is not a game of "naming the OP"... an OP is what he/she is..... and trying to categorize them is not necessarily something to get into.... the real danger is of the psychopathic mind.... which is a danger to supposed OPs and supposed souled humans alike... I think what everyone here is saying.. is that OP or not.... the psychopathic mind... the self-centered mind... the STS.... is what to look out for.... and that includes you, believe it or not. It includes me. Being an OP or discovering who is.... is not necessarily important... what is important.. is discovering the STS nature within yourself...and watching out for the STS nature in those you interact with......the "Organic Portal" issue is a different one... that kind of thing requires much more care and observance.... and it probably isn't even that important....
Whether someone has an individual soul or not is not the most important thing.... OPs have been described, I believe, by the C's as being similar to animals as far as having a group soul kind of thing....... (sorry for the lack of references)..... they've been described as being a bridge between 2nd and 3rd density beings...... not that they are all inherently "evil".... I don't think all OPs mean any harm... they simply act in which ways they believe to be natural....heh...but I guess that could be said of all beings....... bleh... I'm probably confusing the issues...
In the overall tone of your post it would seem that you wanted to describe psychopaths... rather than OPs.... as "leg shakers"..... which is also completely irrational..... as many psychopaths have no nervous ticks.. because they can be completely comfortable with their horrible behaviors....
I would advise looking for the "psychopathic" --behavior-- of people.... instead of their automatic psycho-somatic physical responses.....
If you wanted to find things to beware of..... beware of yourself and others.... look at your.... and their ...overall behavior...
Does their overall behavior benefit themselves or others? Are the leg shakers shaking in order to manipulate you... or is it to calm themselves down?
So ask yourself ........ who benefits from a shaking leg?
I wish to confess... I am too a...."leg shaker"..... and ya know, the most horrible thing coming from it... is annoying those around me....
So I agree with the many whom have responded....that it probably is not a sign that one is an... dun dun dun..... OP........
I notice that I do it when I'm nervous... or excited... which I suppose are similar things. When I'm talking about an idea or I'm excited about one, after a minute, or quite possibly a few, I'll notice, my feet and legs just start tapping. Much of the time I won't pay too much attention to it because I recognize it as a "nervous tick"... but it does seem to bother others much more than it bothers me. Although I've noticed that I do it more and more infrequently as I used to....
One would think it'd be the other way around since it is my leg doin' the shakin'..... but apparently I'm doing it just to annoy you...the OP....... no... not OP as in "Organic Portal".... you, OP as in... the Original Poster... boy, this sure can get confusing sometimes a bit huh?... but yeah... consciously or subconsciously my intention must be to annoy you... with my nervous twitch of.... leg shaking.... gotta watch out for them leg shakers... next thing ya know.... I'll be trying to run for president and taking over the world with my dang-ed NWO....... but you'll be able to warn others by my UNSTOPPABLE.. shaking leg....
Sorry for the sarcastic attitude ...."elevate"..... but... come on.... leg shaking a sign of OPs???? Like many have said here... this is not a game of "naming the OP"... an OP is what he/she is..... and trying to categorize them is not necessarily something to get into.... the real danger is of the psychopathic mind.... which is a danger to supposed OPs and supposed souled humans alike... I think what everyone here is saying.. is that OP or not.... the psychopathic mind... the self-centered mind... the STS.... is what to look out for.... and that includes you, believe it or not. It includes me. Being an OP or discovering who is.... is not necessarily important... what is important.. is discovering the STS nature within yourself...and watching out for the STS nature in those you interact with......the "Organic Portal" issue is a different one... that kind of thing requires much more care and observance.... and it probably isn't even that important....
Whether someone has an individual soul or not is not the most important thing.... OPs have been described, I believe, by the C's as being similar to animals as far as having a group soul kind of thing....... (sorry for the lack of references)..... they've been described as being a bridge between 2nd and 3rd density beings...... not that they are all inherently "evil".... I don't think all OPs mean any harm... they simply act in which ways they believe to be natural....heh...but I guess that could be said of all beings....... bleh... I'm probably confusing the issues...
In the overall tone of your post it would seem that you wanted to describe psychopaths... rather than OPs.... as "leg shakers"..... which is also completely irrational..... as many psychopaths have no nervous ticks.. because they can be completely comfortable with their horrible behaviors....
I would advise looking for the "psychopathic" --behavior-- of people.... instead of their automatic psycho-somatic physical responses.....
If you wanted to find things to beware of..... beware of yourself and others.... look at your.... and their ...overall behavior...
Does their overall behavior benefit themselves or others? Are the leg shakers shaking in order to manipulate you... or is it to calm themselves down?
So ask yourself ........ who benefits from a shaking leg?
brainwave
Jedi Master
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
How do you know a person is souled? or how do you know a person is an OP? I don't. This is what I was getting at by using the term 'spot the OP' as in it's not an easy matter to know. How do you know you have a soul? What is a soul? These are just a few of the questions raised. This is what it amounts to when we try to describe OPs as this or OPs as that. We don't know. At least I don't know. All I do know is that based onthe Cs and Mouravieff and Gurdjieff's description of the different types of man, what we call an OP is a person with a different level of awareness-i.e. lacking potential for higher centers. Therefore, the behaviors of such a person have certain mechanicalness relative to those who capable of higher centers AND are ACTIVELY working on getting those centers running correctly. We are not talking psychopaths here as that is another kettle of fish in my opinion.
Precisely because it is complex,is why I think we should look at ourselves and how we relate to others more so than wonder what OPs do and don't do. Are we mechanical or are our choices conscious ones? We have to get to know ourselves more before we can presume to know others.
I would say we are all STS. So I can agree with saying we are STS until we choose not to be. This is what we are whether OPs or not because we 'fit' on an STS planet. It would include manipulation all around until we learn enough about ourselves and the world we live in to be able to choose to stop being mechanical AND stop manipulating. But mechanicalness and manipulation are separate things. Even if not being mechanical makes it easier to stop manipulating, not being mechanical doesn't mean one WILL CHOOSE to stop manipulating. I think this is where the term "we are all OPs comes until we choose not to be" comes from. As long as we are unconscious of our mechanical behaviors, we often manipulate and lie to ourselves and others. Those who are capable of conscious/non-mechanical action but choose to manipulate in whatever way must be consciously STS, psychopaths even. At this point the discussion becomes a different topic so I will stop here except to say that I also see a rather mechanical routine to your participation in discussions regarding OPs. This may be a conscious choice on your part or maybe not. What others may mean when they say you're doing it again begs the question of whether or not you are conscious of what you are doing when it comes to this particular topic.
So are you saying we should give a hoot otherwise we may be OPs?RuthI can't see any OP 'experts' either said:
I don't know if an OP is simple or not. Observing the behavior of other vertebrates tells me that 'simple creatures' are not simple, and so, I would not presume to think an OP would be either. What you wrote about it being more interesting to study souled people seems to contradict.Ruth said:
ruth said:
What makes it completely incorrect? If OPs exist there must be OP like behavior although I can only speculate what OP like behavior may be based on what I observe within myself and the world around me and what the Cs, Mouravieff, and others have said about the types of humans.ruth said:
How do you know a person is souled? or how do you know a person is an OP? I don't. This is what I was getting at by using the term 'spot the OP' as in it's not an easy matter to know. How do you know you have a soul? What is a soul? These are just a few of the questions raised. This is what it amounts to when we try to describe OPs as this or OPs as that. We don't know. At least I don't know. All I do know is that based onthe Cs and Mouravieff and Gurdjieff's description of the different types of man, what we call an OP is a person with a different level of awareness-i.e. lacking potential for higher centers. Therefore, the behaviors of such a person have certain mechanicalness relative to those who capable of higher centers AND are ACTIVELY working on getting those centers running correctly. We are not talking psychopaths here as that is another kettle of fish in my opinion.
Precisely because it is complex,is why I think we should look at ourselves and how we relate to others more so than wonder what OPs do and don't do. Are we mechanical or are our choices conscious ones? We have to get to know ourselves more before we can presume to know others.
I don't quite understand. Are you saying that non-OPs are possibly manipulating OPs? I can see how this could be Maybe I used the term "OP like behavior" too loosely so you misunderstood. OP like behavior in my mind doesn't necessarily mean 'bad'. I am making an assumption, however. The assumption is that OP like behavior is any behavior that lacks a certain level of consciousness. In other words, mechanical behavior compared to one who is aware. That is what I was getting at. I think that we should see how we behave mechanically whether good or bad. Our mechanical behavior makes it easy for us to be manipulated into serving an STS agenda whether we are OPs or not. It also causes us to manipulate others, whether those others are OPs or not. So yes, us 3D earthlings are STS. Half are OPs other half are not really, although many of the non-op half may behave as if they lack a certain level of conscious awareness. In otherwords behave OP like.ruth said:
I would say we are all STS. So I can agree with saying we are STS until we choose not to be. This is what we are whether OPs or not because we 'fit' on an STS planet. It would include manipulation all around until we learn enough about ourselves and the world we live in to be able to choose to stop being mechanical AND stop manipulating. But mechanicalness and manipulation are separate things. Even if not being mechanical makes it easier to stop manipulating, not being mechanical doesn't mean one WILL CHOOSE to stop manipulating. I think this is where the term "we are all OPs comes until we choose not to be" comes from. As long as we are unconscious of our mechanical behaviors, we often manipulate and lie to ourselves and others. Those who are capable of conscious/non-mechanical action but choose to manipulate in whatever way must be consciously STS, psychopaths even. At this point the discussion becomes a different topic so I will stop here except to say that I also see a rather mechanical routine to your participation in discussions regarding OPs. This may be a conscious choice on your part or maybe not. What others may mean when they say you're doing it again begs the question of whether or not you are conscious of what you are doing when it comes to this particular topic.
Ruth
The Living Force
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
I have a tendency to think that there is more intrinsically 'bad' about non-ops than ops. Why? Not because it has anything to do with ops, but because they (we) are STS. This is why I find the expression 'op-like behaviour' ridiculous. It is STS-like behaviour and is more likely to be seen in a non-op than an op (imo).
So, what's the difference between the two, apart from one type of human is a 'souped-up' type and the other isn't? I came to the conclusion that it was programming and how it is used (differently) with each. Although it is probably easier to tell an op by the absence of 'souped-up' soul. Lack of 'soul searching', but quite a lot of 'program searching' is usually evidenced in an op. Certainly it has nothing to do with STS behaviour.
These are just ideas and theoretical too, at the moment. Not facts. I don't see any big deal about ops. They've been around for a long while - maybe even longer than us, I'm not sure. Perhaps they even have more right to be here than we do, but that is just conjecture.
If you want 'trouble' you'll find it with STS, not with ops. The non-ops have the choice to become STO, the ops have the choice to become individuated souls - rather than belonging to a soul group. Seems fairly straight forward to me. The 'work' that a person does on themselves is to turn them from STS to STO. And that's pretty hard in this environment, run as it is by 4D STS. To be honest, I don't think ops would be that much attracted to 'work' on the soul. Perhaps its not necessary for them at this stage as they belong to a soul group.
How, do I do it? Well, I start on the basis of what the Cs said (whom I do have a tendency to take literally - but I know that - I've gotta start somewhere with ideas). They mentioned that the op:non-op split was 50:50. I don't use the word 'souls' because they also mentioned that everything and everyone has one. So, I came to the conclusion that 50% of people were 2nd to 3rd density 'bridges' and 50% of people were 3rd to 4th density 'bridges'. The 3rd to 4th density bridges are the non-ops with some kind of 'souped up' soul matrix or access to a higher frequency vibration which the ops (2nd to 3rd density bridges) don't have. Whether or not they are aware of it, or chose to use it is up to them.Shar said:
I have a tendency to think that there is more intrinsically 'bad' about non-ops than ops. Why? Not because it has anything to do with ops, but because they (we) are STS. This is why I find the expression 'op-like behaviour' ridiculous. It is STS-like behaviour and is more likely to be seen in a non-op than an op (imo).
So, what's the difference between the two, apart from one type of human is a 'souped-up' type and the other isn't? I came to the conclusion that it was programming and how it is used (differently) with each. Although it is probably easier to tell an op by the absence of 'souped-up' soul. Lack of 'soul searching', but quite a lot of 'program searching' is usually evidenced in an op. Certainly it has nothing to do with STS behaviour.
These are just ideas and theoretical too, at the moment. Not facts. I don't see any big deal about ops. They've been around for a long while - maybe even longer than us, I'm not sure. Perhaps they even have more right to be here than we do, but that is just conjecture.
If you want 'trouble' you'll find it with STS, not with ops. The non-ops have the choice to become STO, the ops have the choice to become individuated souls - rather than belonging to a soul group. Seems fairly straight forward to me. The 'work' that a person does on themselves is to turn them from STS to STO. And that's pretty hard in this environment, run as it is by 4D STS. To be honest, I don't think ops would be that much attracted to 'work' on the soul. Perhaps its not necessary for them at this stage as they belong to a soul group.
