I
immortalphoenix
Guest
questions on organic portals and souls
you can just go ahead and delete this form if you like
you can just go ahead and delete this form if you like
Do not attempt to generalize quickly. Different corporations have different histories and different objectives. There is nothing wrong with incorporating - when this is the thing to do to get your objectives. The devil, as always, is in the details.artichoke said:What about corporations? .
Ruth said:I don't have to know how to build a car or how it works to drive it. I'm sure there are enough people who have these useful skills to find out if Gurdjieff knew anything about OPs. So far, there's been nothing to indicate this was the case. Maslow didn't know about OPs, so why should Gurdjieff? What makes him so special? Why should he know something that Maslow didn't?
From what I can ascertain, Gurdjieff either knew of their existence or at least had a partial understanding. It may not be as clearly outlined as in Gnosis, but I did find some parts of In Search of the Miraculous that, upon a recent re-read, caught my attention.kenlee said:If Mouravieff knew about the Pre-Adamic race (Organic Portals) and the Adamic race (Soul potential) then I can't see how Gurdjieff (or even Ouspensky) didn't know about it. It might also be that Gurdjieff felt that it was not yet time to divulge such information to the public until the nature of good and evil was fully understood. But I dunno what he knew. What I said is speculation. Here's a excerpt from Fritz Peters book 'Boyhood with Gurdjieff' that might have indicated that Gurdjieff knew something about the Pre-Adamic and Adamic races but he may have been holding some information back.
I could go on quoting this forever, but to get to the point, if you read the above again and consider looking at it from a different perspective. Consider for a moment that the higher bodies represent a crystallised (or crystallising soul). Consider the statement "the physical body works with these same substances of which the higher bodies are composed" as representative of the condition of someone who cannot crystallise a soul and who instead belongs to a soul pool. Perhaps the individual soul and the soul pool could be "composed" of the "same substances", but "differ ... considerably"?1st body 2nd body 3rd body 4th body
Carnal body Natural body Spiritual body Divine body
"Carriage" (body) "Horse" (feelings, desires) "Driver" (mind) "Master" (I, consciousness, will)
Physical body Astral body Mental body Causal body
..."Such comparisons and parallels may be found in most systems and teachings which recognise something more in man than the physical body. But almost all these teachings, while repeating in a more or less familiar form the definitions and divisions of the ancient teaching, have forgotten or omitted its most important feature, which is: that man is not born with the finer bodies, and that they can only be artificially cultivated in him provided favourable conditions both internal and external are present.
"The 'astral body' is not an indispensable implement for man. It is a great luxury which only a few can afford. A man can live quite well without an 'astral body'. His physical body possesses all the functions necessary for life. A man without 'astral body' may even produce the impression of being a very intellectual or even spiritual man, and may deceive not only others but also himself.
"This applies still more, of course, to the 'mental body' and the fourth body. Ordinary man does not possess these bodies or their corresponding functions. But he often thinks, and makes others think, that he does. The reason for this are, first, the fact that the physical body works with these same substances of which the higher bodies are composed, only these substances are not crystallised in him, do not belong to him; and secondly, it has all the functions analogous to those of the higher bodies, though of course they differ from them considerably. The chief difference between the functions of a man possessing the physical body only and the functions of the four bodies, is that, in the first case, the functions of the physical body govern all the other functions, in other words, everything is governed by the body which, in its turn, is governed by external influences. In the second case, the command or control emanates from the higher body.
"The function of the physical body may be represented as parallel to the functions of the four bodies."
G. drew another diagram, representing the parallel functions of a man of physical body and a man of four bodies.
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Automaton Desires Thoughts Different and
working by produced by proceeding from contradictory "wills"
external influences. automaton. desires. created by desires.
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Body obeying Emotional Thinking functions I
desires and powers and desires obeying consciousness Ego
emotions which obeying thought and will. Consciousness
are subject to and intelligence. Will.
intelligence.
In Search of the Miraculous - P. D. Ouspensky
pp.41-42
If you think of immortality not in a literal sense (a la Highlander or in vampire lore) but in a more abstract sense, such as through reincarnation, then in the above quote the word "immortality" could easily be replaced with "individuated soul", ergo the ability to reincarnate...."Only the man who possesses four fully developed bodies can be called a 'man' in the full sense of the word. This man possesses many properties which ordinary man does not possess. One of these properties is immortality. All religions and ancient teachings contain the idea that, by acquiring the fourth body, man acquires immortality; and they all contain indications of the ways to acquire the fourth body, that is, immortality."
[...]
"I said last time," [Gurdjieff] said, "that immortality is not a property with which man is born. But man can acquire immortality."
In Search of the Miraculous - P. D. Ouspensky
p.44
Although Gurdjieff does not explicitly state that some people cannot develop the higher bodies, he does mention that "they can only be artificially cultivated in him provided favourable conditions both internal and external are present". Perhaps internal conditions can also include the genetic potential for soul crystallisation?Glossary - Bodies:
The ideas of the higher bodies and of the higher centers are not exactly the same. We could say that constructing the higher bodies corresponds to making the higher functioning permanent.
The astral and the next higher body, variously called atman or soul are the only ones that survive physical death. We can only speak of purposeful reincarnation if these bodies exist and have cohesion. Otherwise we may only speak of a mechanical recycling of patterns or of looping of a film.
Ouf...thank you Beau, i am not the only one on the forum.beau said:Hello Namaste,
I could be that you have an overactive motor center. I do the same thing when I don't get to exercise either. One way or the other, the energy from that center is going to be released. I doubt it would identify an OP though...