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immortalphoenix
Guest
questions on organic portals and souls
you can just go ahead and delete this form if you like
you can just go ahead and delete this form if you like
Organic Portals: Human variation
- Thread starter Laura
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artichoke
Guest
What about corporations? I have the interesting experience of working in a corporation, and it seems like a gigantic "soul pool" to me, with people being super-devoted to the most soul-less things. The "best" ones, generally those who have risen to management, exert their soullessness with a great deal of vigor.
Corporation = a big soul-less corpus, or a corpus with predominantly a single soul-pool joining its OP participants.
Corporation = a big soul-less corpus, or a corpus with predominantly a single soul-pool joining its OP participants.
Do not attempt to generalize quickly. Different corporations have different histories and different objectives. There is nothing wrong with incorporating - when this is the thing to do to get your objectives. The devil, as always, is in the details.artichoke said:
A while ago on this thread there was some minor discussion concerning whether or not Gurdjieff knew of Organic Portals or had any clue of their existence.
The following is an explanation of the four bodies, but certain points in particular reminded me of the difference between an OP and someone with an individuated soul.
You could then consider the following statement:
"A man can live quite well without an 'astral body'. His physical body possesses all the functions necessary for life."
Like this:
"A man can live quite well without a soul. His physical body and membership to a soul pool possesses all the functions necessary for life."
And further:
"[the physical body] has all the functions analogous to those of the higher bodies, though of course they differ from them considerably."
Like this:
"the soul pool has all the functions analogous to an individuated soul though of course soul pools differ from individuated souls considerably."
I am sure there is far more of Gurdjieff's and Ouspensky's writings that could offer more clues regarding OPs, but I'll keep this post to a reasonable length and mention only one more thing that caught my eye...
Of course, this relies upon the assumption that OPs do not reincarnate. Is there a reincarnation process for OPs? Does something, in place of the lack of an individuated soul, reincarnate or does it return to the soul pool to be redistributed? Gurdjieff said something along those lines, "If not do this, then will be like acorn that not become tree--fertilizer. Fertilizer which go back in ground and become possibility for future man." (quoted by kenlee on page 21 of this thread.)
Ruth said:
From what I can ascertain, Gurdjieff either knew of their existence or at least had a partial understanding. It may not be as clearly outlined as in Gnosis, but I did find some parts of In Search of the Miraculous that, upon a recent re-read, caught my attention.kenlee said:
The following is an explanation of the four bodies, but certain points in particular reminded me of the difference between an OP and someone with an individuated soul.
I could go on quoting this forever, but to get to the point, if you read the above again and consider looking at it from a different perspective. Consider for a moment that the higher bodies represent a crystallised (or crystallising soul). Consider the statement "the physical body works with these same substances of which the higher bodies are composed" as representative of the condition of someone who cannot crystallise a soul and who instead belongs to a soul pool. Perhaps the individual soul and the soul pool could be "composed" of the "same substances", but "differ ... considerably"?
You could then consider the following statement:
"A man can live quite well without an 'astral body'. His physical body possesses all the functions necessary for life."
Like this:
"A man can live quite well without a soul. His physical body and membership to a soul pool possesses all the functions necessary for life."
And further:
"[the physical body] has all the functions analogous to those of the higher bodies, though of course they differ from them considerably."
Like this:
"the soul pool has all the functions analogous to an individuated soul though of course soul pools differ from individuated souls considerably."
I am sure there is far more of Gurdjieff's and Ouspensky's writings that could offer more clues regarding OPs, but I'll keep this post to a reasonable length and mention only one more thing that caught my eye...
If you think of immortality not in a literal sense (a la Highlander or in vampire lore) but in a more abstract sense, such as through reincarnation, then in the above quote the word "immortality" could easily be replaced with "individuated soul", ergo the ability to reincarnate.
Of course, this relies upon the assumption that OPs do not reincarnate. Is there a reincarnation process for OPs? Does something, in place of the lack of an individuated soul, reincarnate or does it return to the soul pool to be redistributed? Gurdjieff said something along those lines, "If not do this, then will be like acorn that not become tree--fertilizer. Fertilizer which go back in ground and become possibility for future man." (quoted by kenlee on page 21 of this thread.)
Although Gurdjieff does not explicitly state that some people cannot develop the higher bodies, he does mention that "they can only be artificially cultivated in him provided favourable conditions both internal and external are present". Perhaps internal conditions can also include the genetic potential for soul crystallisation?
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
The thing is there is no sure way to spot the OP and thats the part of the wole cosmic game that goes on on our planet
I think just being aware helps alot without any need to go further into classification mode,
after all even the souled being unaware of their nature can nicely suck our energy
so my point is- just by being constantly aware of our energy flow we easily defeat the obstacle of OP's in our environment
well thats the way I c it
The thing is there is no sure way to spot the OP and thats the part of the wole cosmic game that goes on on our planet
I think just being aware helps alot without any need to go further into classification mode,
after all even the souled being unaware of their nature can nicely suck our energy
so my point is- just by being constantly aware of our energy flow we easily defeat the obstacle of OP's in our environment
well thats the way I c it
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
Well, i am a leg shaker.
When i do not have the time or when i do not take the time to exercice or play outside in riding my bike, or in walking, it is like i have to much energy and it must exist by somewhere. If i had played outside and if i had spent a lot of energy then i do not shake my legs.
But maybe it is my interpretaion because i do not want to see that i am on OP???
I think that there is no evidential sign that indicate right there if this is an OP. Just time and a good knowledge of the person would help us to identify the kind of a person.
As i understand it, the important thing is be aware of such people, be aware of the psychopath and sociopath, protect ourself, do our homework and try to be STO af far as we can.
Well, i am a leg shaker.
When i do not have the time or when i do not take the time to exercice or play outside in riding my bike, or in walking, it is like i have to much energy and it must exist by somewhere. If i had played outside and if i had spent a lot of energy then i do not shake my legs.
But maybe it is my interpretaion because i do not want to see that i am on OP???
I think that there is no evidential sign that indicate right there if this is an OP. Just time and a good knowledge of the person would help us to identify the kind of a person.
As i understand it, the important thing is be aware of such people, be aware of the psychopath and sociopath, protect ourself, do our homework and try to be STO af far as we can.
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
Hello Namaste,
I could be that you have an overactive motor center. I do the same thing when I don't get to exercise either. One way or the other, the energy from that center is going to be released. I doubt it would identify an OP though...
Hello Namaste,
I could be that you have an overactive motor center. I do the same thing when I don't get to exercise either. One way or the other, the energy from that center is going to be released. I doubt it would identify an OP though...
knowledge_of_self
The Living Force
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
Hi,
I'm also a leg shaker. I don't know if I'm an OP or not. But until I find out I will go with the notion that there is a possibility that I am an OP- until I choose not to be, through the process of the Work.
It's funny because my mom (who I think has OP traits) hates it when I shake my leg. She says it is a sign of a nervous person, and it is not "lady like". I usually laugh at it and try my best not to shake my leg around her, because she always notices when I do, and it bothers her a lot.
Like others have mentioned here, I also don't like to play "spot the OP". And ever since my introduction into Ponerology, I think it is actually more important to focus on recognizing pathocratic/psychopathic traits within myself and others so I can be less of a pathocrat/psychopath. And I think that is a little different than trying to figure out who is or isn't an OP. It is more practical, as there is more information and knowledge base to go on.
Just some thoughts...
PS.I just noticed that I'm shaking my leg while writing this post... :)
Hi,
I'm also a leg shaker. I don't know if I'm an OP or not. But until I find out I will go with the notion that there is a possibility that I am an OP- until I choose not to be, through the process of the Work.
It's funny because my mom (who I think has OP traits) hates it when I shake my leg. She says it is a sign of a nervous person, and it is not "lady like". I usually laugh at it and try my best not to shake my leg around her, because she always notices when I do, and it bothers her a lot.
Like others have mentioned here, I also don't like to play "spot the OP". And ever since my introduction into Ponerology, I think it is actually more important to focus on recognizing pathocratic/psychopathic traits within myself and others so I can be less of a pathocrat/psychopath. And I think that is a little different than trying to figure out who is or isn't an OP. It is more practical, as there is more information and knowledge base to go on.
Just some thoughts...
PS.I just noticed that I'm shaking my leg while writing this post... :)
Ruth
The Living Force
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
Most ops I know seek out programs and 'herds' to join, as a matter of course. There's nothing unusual or 'individual' about them as they would rather have consensus and mediocrity over 'standing out' or being 'different' any dday. A 'good little op' is a consumate conformer, imo and really abhores doing anything different or unusual.
Mind you, they would have a much better chance of becoming individuated and more self reflecting if the non-ops on this planet were sto, instead of sts (as the Cs said).
My biggest challenge in dealing with ops is that they try my patience, they're so predicable and always looking to validate their precious programs. Reminds me of an add I saw on TV recently where a spaniel was trying to get a piece of pie off family members having dinner. He goes running round looking for a 'reward' with the voice over saying :"C'mon, c'mon... Am I a good boy? Am I a good boy, or what?" Made me laugh because (imo) that's what ops tend to do. Don't know much about leg shaking though. That seems more like a physical thing than a soul thing to me.
Most ops I know seek out programs and 'herds' to join, as a matter of course. There's nothing unusual or 'individual' about them as they would rather have consensus and mediocrity over 'standing out' or being 'different' any dday. A 'good little op' is a consumate conformer, imo and really abhores doing anything different or unusual.
Mind you, they would have a much better chance of becoming individuated and more self reflecting if the non-ops on this planet were sto, instead of sts (as the Cs said).
My biggest challenge in dealing with ops is that they try my patience, they're so predicable and always looking to validate their precious programs. Reminds me of an add I saw on TV recently where a spaniel was trying to get a piece of pie off family members having dinner. He goes running round looking for a 'reward' with the voice over saying :"C'mon, c'mon... Am I a good boy? Am I a good boy, or what?" Made me laugh because (imo) that's what ops tend to do. Don't know much about leg shaking though. That seems more like a physical thing than a soul thing to me.
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
It does happen to me as well, that I am shaking my legs. Gosh, this forum must be full of OP's by now :)
But since this thread was started, I have been paying even more attention to the moments that I do it, and what the possible cause could be, and the potential effects of such automatic behaviour. It has been mentioned that it is a surplus of energy. And that might be one of the things. If so, would it be not more beneficial, I thought, to use this energy in a more constructive way instead of making the floor and possibly the tables and all what is on it shake up and down?
So every time I caught myself doing it, I placed my feet firmly on the floor (no crossed legs). And I have noticed that it helps to sigh, or better even, inhale deep and than exhale with pursed lips. It is only then that it dawned on me that every single moment (up to know) that I was doing it, there was some form of energy that was trapped in a loop, and that I was somehow fretting about something, not always on a cognitive level though as that would be apparent straight away. The energy can be anywhere. But still, this surplus of energy was going round and round (somewhere), and the shaking of my legs was actually feeding this infernal loop.
When I stopped the process, while sighing and going deeper, every single time there was something there to transform and to learn from. Usually the insight came from the emotional body.
I have also noticed that if I stalk the process of shaking without interfering as I explained above, that the surplus of energy could gush forth uncontrollably afterwards and thus enter and even pollute or distort my interaction with the world in an inappropriate way.
It does happen to me as well, that I am shaking my legs. Gosh, this forum must be full of OP's by now :)
But since this thread was started, I have been paying even more attention to the moments that I do it, and what the possible cause could be, and the potential effects of such automatic behaviour. It has been mentioned that it is a surplus of energy. And that might be one of the things. If so, would it be not more beneficial, I thought, to use this energy in a more constructive way instead of making the floor and possibly the tables and all what is on it shake up and down?
So every time I caught myself doing it, I placed my feet firmly on the floor (no crossed legs). And I have noticed that it helps to sigh, or better even, inhale deep and than exhale with pursed lips. It is only then that it dawned on me that every single moment (up to know) that I was doing it, there was some form of energy that was trapped in a loop, and that I was somehow fretting about something, not always on a cognitive level though as that would be apparent straight away. The energy can be anywhere. But still, this surplus of energy was going round and round (somewhere), and the shaking of my legs was actually feeding this infernal loop.
When I stopped the process, while sighing and going deeper, every single time there was something there to transform and to learn from. Usually the insight came from the emotional body.
I have also noticed that if I stalk the process of shaking without interfering as I explained above, that the surplus of energy could gush forth uncontrollably afterwards and thus enter and even pollute or distort my interaction with the world in an inappropriate way.
joejoeba
Jedi
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
I attended court recently and the nervous energy generated in preparation to my statement brought on the leg jiggle. I have allways associated the leg shake with school. It was there that I noticed it. It was a 'thing'. Especially with the misfits or the one's who took drugs and were trying to be 'cool'.
Me being an 'ADHD' lad, had it endemically.As a result I at times even played on it or 'used it' to achieve certain subliminal purposes. Mainly for communication. I would be saying--"look at me", "i'm different", and invariably "help"!!
I have to say that I chose acting and a creative musical path to channel my jiggle-It was helped me through observation to want to change and slowly improve myself.
My understanding of OP is thoroughly complex, like most things, but also simple in a sense that I can tell if some one rubs in some way.
Great inspiring subtle observation, thanks.
I feel quite relieved having shared that fact about myself.
Welcome to OP anon.
I excelled in court by the way.
I attended court recently and the nervous energy generated in preparation to my statement brought on the leg jiggle. I have allways associated the leg shake with school. It was there that I noticed it. It was a 'thing'. Especially with the misfits or the one's who took drugs and were trying to be 'cool'.
Me being an 'ADHD' lad, had it endemically.As a result I at times even played on it or 'used it' to achieve certain subliminal purposes. Mainly for communication. I would be saying--"look at me", "i'm different", and invariably "help"!!
I have to say that I chose acting and a creative musical path to channel my jiggle-It was helped me through observation to want to change and slowly improve myself.
My understanding of OP is thoroughly complex, like most things, but also simple in a sense that I can tell if some one rubs in some way.
Great inspiring subtle observation, thanks.
I feel quite relieved having shared that fact about myself.
Welcome to OP anon.
I excelled in court by the way.
Passive Organic Portals? & leg/knee Shaking
Just a passing thought
Everysince I learned about the organic portals I was not just plagued by the desire to classify everyone I know, but also at times with questions about my own nature, what a wonderful irony of creation that would be - OP who thinks he has a soul, actually that was the reason I chose my nick for this forum :) ( In Dick's novel there is a hint that Decard might be android himself).
I strongly recommend everyone with similar urges and questions to read the whole of 26 pages of this excellent thread
The other Race
very informative
bthw what would you say to the leg shaking or uncontrollable leg jerking just before you fall asleep.
It use to happen to me very often while ago and I tried to find out more about it. One interesting thing is that most of the medical sources connect it with sleep paralysis. Some also say it may be indicative of predilection to narcolepsy.
It is also interesting that many researchers of paranormal link sleep paralysis with alien abductions. Does anyone know of a good source where you can learn more about these things?
Just a passing thought
Everysince I learned about the organic portals I was not just plagued by the desire to classify everyone I know, but also at times with questions about my own nature, what a wonderful irony of creation that would be - OP who thinks he has a soul, actually that was the reason I chose my nick for this forum :) ( In Dick's novel there is a hint that Decard might be android himself).
I strongly recommend everyone with similar urges and questions to read the whole of 26 pages of this excellent thread
The other Race
very informative
bthw what would you say to the leg shaking or uncontrollable leg jerking just before you fall asleep.
It use to happen to me very often while ago and I tried to find out more about it. One interesting thing is that most of the medical sources connect it with sleep paralysis. Some also say it may be indicative of predilection to narcolepsy.
It is also interesting that many researchers of paranormal link sleep paralysis with alien abductions. Does anyone know of a good source where you can learn more about these things?