Organic Portals: Human variation

mudrabbit

Jedi Master
Organic Portals?

jacob232 said:
What do you mean work on yourself?
Suggested topic searches concerning work on the self.

Gurdjieff, Mouravieff, Oupenski, are good to start withl

There's also this pertinent part, which I think explains much:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave13h.htm

It's a start

Peg
 

Stowaway

The Force is Strong With This One
EsoQuest said:
Laura said:
In short, until we begin to make efforts in the direction of "seating the soul," we are all effectively Organic Portals.
Then the distinction between Adamics and OP's is even less pronounced, and for all practical purposes perhaps we should not assume a "you are or you aren't" stance. Rather, no matter what your potential OP is the default state for everyone, and the ensouled influence provides the inner motive to make the choices to realize what is initially a potential.

This would fit with the bell-curve scheme, where the peak would include those of soul potential who are still in the OP default state, even though their genetics do not necessarily support soul pool status, yet they still travel with the herd, as it were.

The ensouled may identify themselves as different from OP's, but lack of understanding can easily lead to confusion, and possibly self-recrimination and guilt when the same ensouled find engrained OP habits in themselves. These STS residues have a habit of leaping out at you out from dark corners just when you thought you had it all covered, and the real danger is a harsh reaction against one's self because it does not live up to idealized standards. It is true that whipping one's self to perfection is rather counterproductive, but unfortunately it is not a rare occurence among those who strive for STO.

The interesting thing is that such an intolerant attitude against oneself (and/or others) is really STS (placing the "idea" of self as "evolved" in a more important position than the learning, which is a dynamic process that "will be what it will be" as the C's say).
I think The concept of 'soul potential' is crucial. Here is how I see it:

Identification with soul potential is the emergence of those ideals and values which are of deep and enduring personal significance. To the degree that personal ideals become sacred to the individual, one develops a sense of ethical discrimination such that one's value-comprehension of socially inherited mores becomes integrated and enhanced.

To perceive, even in small degree, a similarly active inner light in another person is to experience that human fellow-feeling which is the foundation of true compassion - service toward others. The mutually shared reality of insights, independently acquired through personal experience and wholly subjective in origin, attains status of objectivity through personal expression by those persons who dare to reveal their inner selves. This inner sense of truth-responsive objectivity is the essense of personally meaningful communication: the power of truth over lies.

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I am perplexed about the idea within the larger thread here (I'm up to page 6) admitting the possibility of psychopathic types being of Adamic nature, in contrast with OP nature: how is it possible there can exist a person who, having acquired the 'light of truth' goes over wholly to the dark side - thoroughly identified with manipulative control of others, by all possible means? This is very difficult to understand because it seems to imply the destruction of a fully human personality. What would cause that to happen? Whether or not possible, it is very disheartening to consider.
 

kacou

A Disturbance in the Force
I have something to say about this topic:
Someone long a go tolled me that we have all something too tiny that the bear existence of it can’t be defined by human words. This little tiny thing is what we call “soul”, he went on to say that because of the way the sun and moon rises, the result is that we have no much feed back from this tiny thing. He also said that this tiny thing has nothing to do with energy that operate our body. Once we lived in a more abundant world where by the tiny thing was having a fifty fifty feedback with our brain. In those times every thing was possible for the tiny thing and for the brain.
The tiny thing that we have difficulty to grasp or identified some time reach us in every day life.
Once a friend tolled me that I had said something to him which made him so aware of himself. I had no idea what I said to him that made him feel this way, but he insisted that no one had ever grasp his being better then I did. It is not important what i said to him for this topic, what is important is that I understood then that the tiny thing will act if it is call upon request from other tiny thing.
That is all I can contribute to this topic.
Kacou.
 

Lumasphere

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highmystica said:
I recently saw the movie "american psycho" on the sci-fi channel and I was amazed by it, though the character was a bit more extreme that the "average psychopath" (at least as such is presented in works like the mask of sanity) it was in my opinion far better than the average hollywood version of a psychopath ... especially the protrayal of the main character's inner workings - that bugged me for a few days ... has anyone else seen this movie?

This movie came out in 2000 and starred Christian Bale as a wealthy new york investment banking exec and Christian Bale stars as our now super batman. The trailer reminds me of Jeffery Dahmer and how he induced his victims. Of course, it maybe the same for all psychos to use the same MO when acquiring victims.

Seems Christian Bale may have been bitten by the psycho stardom bug since he bashed his mum and sis while boozing this past summer 08....
 
Greetings:

You know, when I read about this "Organic Portals" (Further mentioned as "OP") some kind of light came to me. I always was wonder why there's no a unified idea, instead there are ideas peace and harmony but, at the same time, greedy and cold ideas. When they mentioned "two races", I didn't get surprised at all, that could be the perfect justification for all events on this density.

I don't know if I'm a OP or not, I will just pretend to not be one of them in order to keep researching aspiring to develop my soul (That if I have one, if I don't... don't wanna think about it). How to discern if you are surrounded by them? Well...

Q: (L) The question came up about the remark as to the numbers of OPs and you said something about encountering half as many OP's as souled humans. It was pointed out that, in mathematical terms, that would work out to encountering or interacting with more souled humans than OPs. So, you said the population was evenly distributed, when you say the population was evenly distributed does that mean that there are half organic portals and half souled humans, more or less?

A: Yes

I think it would be a waste of precious time and energy to try to identify who is OP and who is not since we interact with them everyday. Now, there is something else, my family (To be more specific: my mother) is that kind of negative person who always is telling you problems, having bad mood all the time, being pessimst (No matter how hard you try to cheer her up) and so my brother (Who was influenced by her, somehow). I live with them and they are the source of all my depressing moments, because they always find the way to get me angry or sad. Sometimes I can not stand it and I start crying like a little child.

I am not saying that they are OPs, actually... But, there are always possibilities for that for being truth. But, this did not happen only in my family, even my schoolmates and friends who laugh at me when I start talking about other densities, control, energy, "agents", ascention and that kind of information. Sometimes I feel myself so alone in this...

But, we all knew that this way will be painful, we all knew that we will be "tested" and tried to be "suppressed" by this MCS. Knowledge protects, but the way we acquire it is far to painful, far to hard. Anyways, If it were easy, we wouldn't be here. Learn is fun, after all.

Speaking of the purpose of this thread:

Here's another clue:

Quote
13 July 2002
Q: Mouravieff says that the "pre-Adamic" humans do not have the higher centers, nor the possibility of developing them in this cycle - which we assume to be the Grand Cycle you have previously described, the length of which is around 300,000 years. Is this an accurate representation of "pre-Adamic" beings?

A: Yes, they are "organic" portals between levels of density.

Q: Based on what Mouravieff has said, it seems to be so that any efforts to try to raise the consciousness of such individuals is doomed to fail.

A: Pretty much. Most of them are very efficient machines. The ones that you have identified as psychopaths are "failures." The best ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation.
What does it mean that psychopaths are "failed Organic Portals"?

Does that mean that we have to put the bi-density types, whether positive or negative, at the positive end of the Organic Portal graph, meaning the ultimate development of the Organic Portal, and the Psychopaths at the far, negative end, the "failures"?

I'm not sure about that. Any ideas anyone?

Uhmmm! they were described with the same patterns:

-Most of them are very efficient machines.
-The best ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation.

If C's said that "failed OPs" are Psychopaths, we could think in "What does make them "failed"?", perhaps is the fact that a Psychopath is more easy to be discovered. Maybe being "failed" means that and a "succesful" OP is the one who can't be identified. All this sounds like a creepy game, y'know? and souled humans are the victims at the end.

But... could a souled-human be like a Psychopath, even? being souled doesn't mean to be shy, powerless and easy to be controlled. What about souled humans to being mean, "heartless" just because they were raised like that? The struggle within a souled human can be so strong that someones could see necessary to block his/her "feelings" just to stop that suffering...! (Discussed here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=6419.0)

That makes this discernment process even more complicated:

-Souled humans who acts like psychopaths.
-Psychopaths as failed OPs.

Is it really neccesary to identify them? We all know that we all will be tried to get distracted in all this path in the search of knowledge. It's important to keep searching no matter how hard could be our lifes because of them. That's all.

Take care.​

[Moderation = Moved quotation mark]
 

Pierre

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Cyrus Wallace said:
A: Pretty much. Most of them are very efficient machines. The ones that you have identified as psychopaths are "failures." The best ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation.
What does it mean that psychopaths are "failed Organic Portals"?

From what I understand "failed psychopaths" are the ones who can be easily identified because they lack the mimetism, manipulation, lie, seduction, charisma, calculation of their non-failed counterparts.

Some blatant serial killers might fall in this failed psychopath category.

However most psychopaths are not failure and they hide very well their true nature behind a mask of sanity that generate compassion, gentless, love, care, forgiveness from "normal" human beings.

A good examples illustrating psychopaths manipulation skills comes from "The mask of Sanity" by Hervey Cleckley.

Cleckley is a psychiatrist who's been studying psychopathy form decades. His books includes several interviews with male psychopaths.

Once Cleckley had a discussion with nurses about how to spot a psychopath, the nurses said it was very easy, the psychopaths were Cleckley's only patients he accepted to lend money to !
 

Renaissance

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Cyrus Wallace said:
A: Pretty much. Most of them are very efficient machines. The ones that you have identified as psychopaths are "failures." The best ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation.
What does it mean that psychopaths are "failed Organic Portals"?

Does that mean that we have to put the bi-density types, whether positive or negative, at the positive end of the Organic Portal graph, meaning the ultimate development of the Organic Portal, and the Psychopaths at the far, negative end, the "failures"?

Not sure if there is a little mix up, but a failed psychopath and a failed OP as a psychopath are different issues. Lobaczewski wrote about psychopaths having failed instincts, and that seems to a major distinction between organic portals and psychopaths. OP behavior will seek out the social rules of their group for self preservation whereas a psychopath has no such connection. Their self preservation instinct is heavily distorted. They work to destroy what is normal to maintain power over others, but cannot recognize that 'killing the host will also kill themselves'.

If you haven't read it already, Political Ponerology is an essential text.
 

Pierre

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Not sure if there is a little mix up, but a failed psychopath and a failed OP as a psychopath are different issues

You are right Los.


Cyrus Wallace said:
Greetings:
A: Pretty much. Most of them are very efficient machines. The ones that you have identified as psychopaths are "failures." The best ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation.
What does it mean that psychopaths are "failed Organic Portals"?

CW, I misunderstood your question relating to "psychopaths as failed OP" with the idea of "failed psychopath".

Los has given more relevant explanations to your question.

Please excuse my previous post.
 
Guys, I must apologize. This fragment:

What does it mean that psychopaths are "failed Organic Portals"?

Does that mean that we have to put the bi-density types, whether positive or negative, at the positive end of the Organic Portal graph, meaning the ultimate development of the Organic Portal, and the Psychopaths at the far, negative end, the "failures"?

I'm not sure about that. Any ideas anyone?

Is from Laura in the first post of this thread. I just noticed that I forgot to "quote it". The previous and next text is mine. Sorry for this misunderstood.
 

curious georgia

The Force is Strong With This One
Ronnie said:
AD children generally lack integrative thinking. They view life as random. Everything just happens. They have difficulty seeing connections between things, internally or externally. They also do not connect things across time. Hence they often do not grasp things like cause-effect, actions-results, the impact of their behavior on others, sequential events, etc. AD children have enormous trouble managing complexity. When faced with complex situations, they become anxious and deteriorate both behaviorally and cognitively. Their thinking can drop to the concrete thinking of a preschool child (sliding down the scale). AD children do not even see their own behavior as stemming from choices they have made. Their behavior is like everything else: events that just happen to them. As a result, the concept of personal responsibility seems like literal nonsense to AD children.
Isn't this exactly what Gurdjieff says is reality. That untill a person does the work and develops will he cannot do? This almost seems like a paraphrased quote from the material. Except Gurdjieff or (maybe Ouspensky) didn't say one believes everything just happens, He says that is the literal truth. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.
 

Approaching Infinity

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curious georgia said:
Isn't this exactly what Gurdjieff says is reality. That untill a person does the work and develops will he cannot do? This almost seems like a paraphrased quote from the material. Except Gurdjieff or (maybe Ouspensky) didn't say one believes everything just happens, He says that is the literal truth. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.

When Gurdjieff described the reality, he was describing reality AS IT IS, not as it could be. People are machines, yes. But they have the possibility of being more. That's where the idea of macrocosmic transformation, alchemical transmutation, etc. comes into play. Life in "the Real world". The description of "reality" will necessarily be reality at a low level.

Getting to the specific quote, keep in mind it says that AD children "view life as random". Normal people do not view life as random, even if there lives ARE random. Part of the function of the intellect is to "make order" out of the sensory stimuli of the external world that present to the senses. But at a low, undeveloped level, it will mistake chaos for order. That's where we get rationalizations, self-justifications, conversive thinking, self-lies, etc. Fake order. In reality, everything just happens. Life is random. There is no control or will. This function of the psyche, at this level, is "married" with low levels of emotional and instinctive functions. For example, a person may be convinced that they are a humanitarian, giving to charities, etc., but this may be entirely motivated by the desire to appear to others as such, i.e. it has to do with the primitive drive for prestige, social position, etc.

Only after a certain developmental level has been achieved can there be REAL order, where "world-creation" ceases to become idle fantasy and becomes what is called in the gospels the kingdom of heaven, on earth. Not my will, but Thy will. Etc. So it is true that we cannot do. It is also true that we Can do. It all depends on context.
 

curious georgia

The Force is Strong With This One
Approaching Infinity said:
When Gurdjieff described the reality, he was describing reality AS IT IS, not as it could be. People are machines, yes. But they have the possibility of being more. That's where the idea of macrocosmic transformation, alchemical transmutation, etc. comes into play. Life in "the Real world". The description of "reality" will necessarily be reality at a low level.

Getting to the specific quote, keep in mind it says that AD children "view life as random". Normal people do not view life as random, even if there lives ARE random. Part of the function of the intellect is to "make order" out of the sensory stimuli of the external world that present to the senses. But at a low, undeveloped level, it will mistake chaos for order. That's where we get rationalizations, self-justifications, conversive thinking, self-lies, etc. Fake order. In reality, everything just happens. Life is random. There is no control or will. This function of the psyche, at this level, is "married" with low levels of emotional and instinctive functions. For example, a person may be convinced that they are a humanitarian, giving to charities, etc., but this may be entirely motivated by the desire to appear to others as such, i.e. it has to do with the primitive drive for prestige, social position, etc.
Exactly. So it seems that AD children have a better Idea of "life as it is"(at a low level of reality) than "normal" people do.


[/quote]
 

Renaissance

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curious georgia said:
Exactly. So it seems that AD children have a better Idea of "life as it is"(at a low level of reality) than "normal" people do.

I think some of the issue here is in the expression of chaos versus the perception of it. Perhaps the referenced quote would have been better stated that "AD children experience life as random". Their experience is at the root of a pathological reality. I don't think AD children have a 'better idea' of our chaotic world but that they are of the chaotic world. They've had little to no opportunity to develop thinking or feeling abilities and so are ill equipped to formulate ideas. AD children primarily seem to have an impairment in their instinctive center, which prevents bonds and ordinary socialization from occurring. The basic instinct that holds the group in high regard (which AD children and psychopaths are lacking) seems necessary for the occurrence of both positive and negative movement (ponerization). If the instinct can be developed in the right type of individual, it can turn into empathy; if it is stunted it can block individual thinking and feeling from being developed and thus turn to mob mentality, i.e. the perception that everything is fine and dandy because the media told me so.
 

Approaching Infinity

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Los said:
curious georgia said:
Exactly. So it seems that AD children have a better Idea of "life as it is"(at a low level of reality) than "normal" people do.

I think some of the issue here is in the expression of chaos versus the perception of it. Perhaps the referenced quote would have been better stated that "AD children experience life as random". Their experience is at the root of a pathological reality. I don't think AD children have a 'better idea' of our chaotic world but that they are of the chaotic world. They've had little to no opportunity to develop thinking or feeling abilities and so are ill equipped to formulate ideas. AD children primarily seem to have an impairment in their instinctive center, which prevents bonds and ordinary socialization from occurring. The basic instinct that holds the group in high regard (which AD children and psychopaths are lacking) seems necessary for the occurrence of both positive and negative movement (ponerization). If the instinct can be developed in the right type of individual, it can turn into empathy; if it is stunted it can block individual thinking and feeling from being developed and thus turn to mob mentality, i.e. the perception that everything is fine and dandy because the media told me so.

This sounds right to me. It's not that they have a grasp on the chaos of life, it's that they LIVE that chaos.
 

curious georgia

The Force is Strong With This One
curious georgia said:
Exactly. So it seems that AD children have a better Idea of "life as it is"(at a low level of reality) than "normal" people do.
I realize that this is an obtuse remark. I was actualy trying to make a kind of ironic joke about "normal people"(normal as considered by mainstream society). I see now that this was innappropriate in such a serious thread. Not to mention the fact that no one seemed to get it. I've been told I have very strange sense of humor. My apologies. :(
 
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