Organic Portals: Human variation

[Lauranimal]

Thank you for your responses. I wrote that post and headed off to work, and what do you think was the first thing that happened?!?! LOL!!!! My 3 most difficult Vampires, one right after the other, first thing. I was actually kind of laughing to myself, and observing as best as I could.

I have more to respond, but will not have any thoughtful time until tomorrow night. Opossum... I will share what I can of the techniques we use; effective at times and maybe not so much at others. I supposed it depends on the determination of the vampire.

More soon. And thanks again :)

 

[Breton]

It seems that the turn taken in this thread is away from who is an organic portal, which is very difficult to determine, to who is draining one's energy. Further, we want to figure out what is it in us that attracts them, and how can we protect ourselves? To me, this sort of discussion has the most practical application, although the information about the existence of OPs is very important to understanding our reality of course and I am very happy to have followed this topic.

 

[go2]

I make a point of teaching my team techniques for politely showing them (whenever possible) a healthy boundary.

Auranimal, I could have written your post and it would have been exactly what I am feeling. I am surrounded by these people and ,sadly, some of them are my own grown children. I am also very sad and lonely.
Would you be willing to elaborate on the techniques you mentioned? I would be grateful.

There is a technique that always works, it can get messy and is difficult to do until practiced a few times
in front of a mirror until you find the right tone of voice.

Say, "NO" or "no".

Its not easy, but its cheap and it always works. It is remarkable how hard that word is to say for those of us who
wish to be of service. Perhaps, we aren't yet sincere and haven't yet shed the victim role. This has been
a fruitful area of Work for me. I carefully observe my inner feelings simultaneously observing the outer
interaction. This attention led to the discovery of my insincerity of motive in being helpful, available, or
the white knight. Being the victim absolved me of responsibility for my own life. It is very interesting to
observe saying "NO" for the first time to our own personal vampires. "Learning is fun."

 

[Risen]

It is very interesting to
observe saying "NO" for the first time to our own personal vampires. "Learning is fun."

HE HE, I did this to one of the vampires at work last week when he asked me for the third time that night to stay and close for him. I said, "NO". You should have seen the anger and hatred in his eyes. He tried to start an argument going but I ignored him and went about my business. He was baffled yet subdued.

 

[manitoban]

There is a technique that always works, it can get messy and is difficult to do until practiced a few times
in front of a mirror until you find the right tone of voice.

Say, "NO" or "no".

Its not easy, but its cheap and it always works. It is remarkable how hard that word is to say for those of us who
wish to be of service. Perhaps, we aren't yet sincere and haven't yet shed the victim role. This has been
a fruitful area of Work for me. I carefully observe my inner feelings simultaneously observing the outer
interaction. This attention led to the discovery of my insincerity of motive in being helpful, available, or
the white knight. Being the victim absolved me of responsibility for my own life. It is very interesting to
observe saying "NO" for the first time to our own personal vampires. "Learning is fun."

Yeah, practising saying No is something I do quite often and it does help. For those of us with the "be nice/say yes" program, saying no does not come easy, we have to learn how to do it.

It's a good point, go2, to observe that the motive behind the "be nice" program really is about our own self image of being seen as a "nice", helpful, good person. Unfortunately this program leads us into all kinds of unhealthy situations simply because we can't say no when it's so much easier to say yes. And as Laura has said, when we say yes to someone who doesn't deserve it, we lose a bit of our essence.

 

[Aliana]

Yeah, practising saying No is something I do quite often and it does help. For those of us with the "be nice/say yes" program, saying no does not come easy, we have to learn how to do it.

It's a good point, go2, to observe that the motive behind the "be nice" program really is about our own self image of being seen as a "nice", helpful, good person. Unfortunately this program leads us into all kinds of unhealthy situations simply because we can't say no when it's so much easier to say yes. And as Laura has said, when we say yes to someone who doesn't deserve it, we lose a bit of our essence.

When we have had narcissists for parents and learned at a very early age that is NOT OK to say no because our very survival depended on the “make nice” program, I think it is more difficult later to learn how to say No without feeling great anxiety. And then it becomes part of the false personality - we want to be nice people, unlike our narcissist parents. Finally, we begin to draw these vampires into our lives because they can spot our programs and see we are ripe for feeding. Also I think we draw them because they feel familiar.

I do believe that knowledge protects - once I began to see this in action - I started practicing NO! At first some of my No’s were “white lies” - I still had my make nice program going, so would make excuses - and I still do that at times because it is often easier than going head-to-head with a controlling narcissist. I also found that I became better at recognizing these people sooner and am now able to make myself scarce before getting involved with them. The most difficult however is dealing with family; that is still an issue for me - but at least I SEE more and am actively taking steps to curtail my exposure. It’s a process - OSIT

 

[manitoban]

When we have had narcissists for parents and learned at a very early age that is NOT OK to say no because our very survival depended on the “make nice” program, I think it is more difficult later to learn how to say No without feeling great anxiety.

Exactly! Yeah, that is where it begins, and given the rampant narcissism in our society, it's affected practically everybody. It is quite amazing to observe within ourselves the fear and anxiety that arises when having to say no to even the most trivial of requests.

And then it becomes part of the false personality - we want to be nice people, unlike our narcissist parents. Finally, we begin to draw these vampires into our lives because they can spot our programs and see we are ripe for feeding. Also I think we draw them because they feel familiar.

Yeah, all true. The vampires recognise us as weak, and quickly learn that we won't say no. And, unfortunately, many of us grew up in such situations and it does seem normal and familiar so the warning signs get ignored.

I do believe that knowledge protects - once I began to see this in action - I started practicing NO! At first some of my No’s were “white lies” - I still had my make nice program going, so would make excuses - and I still do that at times because it is often easier than going head-to-head with a controlling narcissist. I also found that I became better at recognizing these people sooner and am now able to make myself scarce before getting involved with them. The most difficult however is dealing with family; that is still an issue for me - but at least I SEE more and am actively taking steps to curtail my exposure. It’s a process - OSIT

Yeah, it is an ongoing process for sure - for me this a huge program - but as they say, practice makes perfect. :) It sure sounds like you've made some great progress!

 

[Risen]

I would like to add one small detail to this saying no. We must learn to say no without any kind of emotion attached. No anger, apologetic feeling, no excuses, nothing. For me it will take a bit of practice.

 

[Aliana]

Quote from Manitoban

Yeah, it is an ongoing process for sure - for me this a huge program - but as they say, practice makes perfect. Smiley It sure sounds like you've made some great progress!

Well - one step forward and another back as they say. I recently had a huge revelation of having let my mother run over me with a mactruck for most of my life - and i am way to old to be having to admit this, sad to say. Guess family members are the toughest obstacles to overcome. Although I also have to add, she is quite a master of her trade - I am not her only victim :(

I would like to add one small detail to this saying no. We must learn to say no without any kind of emotion attached. No anger, apologetic feeling, no excuses, nothing. For me it will take a bit of practice.

What helped me in the initial process many years ago, was reading Judith Martin (Miss Manners) describe how to graciously decline invitations of all kinds. I think it applies to most instances of saying No.

She says one must just politely say No, thank you and then “shut up”! BIG SILENCE! The more you say after that and the more excuses you make just get you into trouble and you find yourself stumbling into yes. If you are having trouble, you may excuse yourself by saying you must check first with your [wife/husband/boss/children/pets/houseplants] - and then call back and say no.

When I remembered to do this, it has gotten me through many a sticky situation! I have also found that silence is a great way to respond to really outrageous comments.

 

[Lauranimal]

Thank you Anart and Aaronr for your words of encouragement. I will try to take them on board.

RyanX, while it is understandable and appropriate to take a break from people for a while, I think the degree to which I have increasingly isolated myself has become unhealthy. For the last 2 and a half years, and more completely for the last year ... I have really pushed EVERYone away. I barely remember the social creature that I used to be. I know that this is not 'normal'.

Quote from opossum:

Auranimal, I could have written your post and it would have been exactly what I am feeling. I am surrounded by these people and ,sadly, some of them are my own grown children. I am also very sad and lonely.
Would you be willing to elaborate on the techniques you mentioned? I would be grateful.

I am not sure all of these techniques would apply for you as I am discussing a retail situation (read: soul sucking), but they can be understood and applied in other situations:

One of the things I try to remind my Team of on a regular basis, is that whatever behaviors our customers project in interactions with us, it is not personal. It is NOT about us. We have the choice not to take on their poison. Sometimes people want so badly to hook us and drain us that they try very hard to make it personal. We just have to keep our perspective. Do not own someone elses' poison.

But there are those who will take our attention and energy and try to keep it well beyond what is appropriate. They try to hook with pity and use so many different forms of manipulation for stealing energy. Sometimes, when they pause for long enough, we say, “I am just going to check in with some other customers, please let me know if there is anything else I can help with” Creating a distraction. (which, most of the time is in all honesty)

Or if they want to argue and have a need to make you wrong so that they can be right, we just say, “It sounds like you know a good deal more about this than I do. I’m sorry I could not have better assisted you. Please let me know if there is something else I can help you find.”

In other words… we are looking for ways to diffuse them without being offensive (even thought we would like to show them a mirror)

On the occasions when I have a Team Member who is just overwhelmed and no longer feels like they know how to cope with the day after day shite we have to deal with, I encourage them to develop a more literal boundary.

Try to imagine that you have roots that go deep into the Earth and connect to the source of our living planet. Imagine that you draw that energy up through your roots and into your body. That it fills you and overflows through the top of your head to run down over you like a coating and back into the Earth. Always, this energy is moving. This coating is semi-porous and the only energy that can pass in or out of that boundary, is consciously chosen. Remember that you can always choose to be connected to this source and that no one can take your energy through this boundary without your permission. Stay grounded. Stay conscious.

It’s all very difficult because we are in a situation where we are expected to find ways to say Yes to people. So this is really more about working in the retail world and being strategic. It is never-the-less, very hard to stay grounded, when you are pulled in 20 directions at once, and even harder when you are trying to observe yourself and apply knowledge and be … in a conscious way.

I agree with many of the comments here about how important it is to be able to say NO. As it happens, Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estes just posted something about this on Facebook earlier today.

“…Kind ways to say no. No, I wish I could but I cannot. Not now. I am sorry, but I’m full up. That sounds nice but I can’t clear my calendar. Gosh, I was just going to ask you if you could, cause I cant. Can’t see the future, so have to say no. Sorry, I cannot fit one more thing in without something else going ka-plooey….. These all come under the category Mother Teachings: Kind ways to say yes and mean a clear no. Yes, this is so important, I’m so sorry I cannot. Yes there are many needed you are right and I cannot. Yes, it is good, and I will call you if I can, but for now and foreseeable, answer is regretful no.”

For me personally, I am a bit more firm with certain members of my family. I just say, NO… I don’t want to. No… I am not comfortable with that. And No, I really don’t feel the need to explain myself. If they press further, I remind them that their issue with it is exactly that; Their issue. Clearly they want something from me. They often do it under the guise of offering me something they think I will want, in order to entice me. I think it has become pretty clear to them that there is no THING that I want, and if I wanted to give something, I would give it. At the first or tiniest hint of any kind of manipulation, conscious or not, I am out the door. I don't really care anymore what they think and there is no emotion attached to it. This hurts them, and so it is more externally considerate for me to just stay away from them. I am required to wear a mask at work in order to earn a paycheck. I will not wear one and don't have the energy to keep it up, outside of work.

I am barely finding the motivation to get out of bed every day. Always amazed that I show up at work and handle a complex array of tasks and personalities. Motivation is very hard to find. I keep telling myself that I will start the EE, and I have tried a couple of times. And as much as I have taken a great deal of knowledge on board, the only thing I am sure of, is that I do not want to come back and do this whole 3D cycle again.

 

[Aaron r]

Auranimal, another spot-on post from my point of view. You sound really exhausted. For many months all I did was say the Cosmic Mind prayer once a day. That was all I had in me. Bottom line for me was I started feeling better when I started breathing. By breathing I don't mean the EE program. That was too much for me. I just did slow pipe breathing and said the prayer.

In time I certainly will recommence the full program. I feel the old me slowly returning and dare I say a bit of something extra that I cannot really define.

Although you may not feel it, I think you are on the cusp of really moving forward. Please keep going, you can do it. :)

 

[dugdeep]

I finished reading the book "Breakthrough to Creativity" by Shafica Karagulla written in 1967. I only saw one other post about her in the forum. She dealt with what she called the "Higher Sense Perception" and the book talks frequently about energy fields and people who she called sensitives that were able to see these fields. What I wasn't expecting to find and what relates to this topic is the following taken from pages 162-170:
[...]

I'm finding the recent additions to this thread quite helpful. Thanks all.

I'm just starting to read Unholy Hungers and am really looking forward to understanding this topic more. It's quite interesting.

Tonight a friend of mine called me up and asked if I wanted to get a drink (which amounts to a soda water for me). I had been feeling like I wanted to get out of the house, so I agreed to meet him on a patio.

I should point out that this "friend" is not a good friend. In fact, I don't know that I've ever hung out with him outside of a group of mutual friends before tonight. All night, though, I found him to be disagreeable, for lack of a better term, and I couldn't figure out why. I came home thinking I just do not enjoy this guy's company, but now I think there might be something more to it. A few things, like the fact that he was late and had picked a really busy patio that we had to wait in line for started things off on a bad note, but there was definitely something more than that.

He's a talker and he takes a long time to finish a thought, even when I've already gotten the gist of what he's saying. I found myself getting quite annoyed by this. I also found that he didn't really take in anything I was saying. He would agree with me and then continue on with his point and I'd realize he didn't really agree with me at all - in fact I don't think he was even considering my points.

He also seemed to be controlling in the way of time; something I've noticed others do in the past. One way people sometimes hold power over you, OSIT, is by making you wait. He showed up late, so I had to wait for him. When the cheque finally came he took his time getting out his money, doing calculations in his head, chatting to the people next to us, even though I had expressed my desire to leave. All the while he is controlling the situation by forcing me to adhere to his schedule. Even on our walk home he kept stopping for this reason or that reason, got me to hold his bike for him while he rifled through his bag - all things I wouldn't normally mind doing, but tonight, with this guy, it just annoyed me more.

All this sounds fairly petty on my part and if I hadn't read the excerpt findit had written in this thread (odd timing on that :) , thanks findit!) I might have passed it off as just me being irritable. I actually think this guy was feeding off my energy without me being aware of it at the time. I think I fared OK - I don't feel particularly drained, just annoyed. But in the excerpt, one of the symptoms of getting "sapped" is annoyance and a need to get away. That was me tonight. I found even my posture was turned away from him in my chair and I wasn't making a lot of eye contact (which didn't slow down his talking, mind you).

I don't know, maybe this situation isn't quite what others are talking about. I'm pretty new to this idea and haven't tried to see these sorts of dynamics in the past. I might finish reading Unholy Hungers and hang out with this guy again to see if I can spot the true energy dynamic of the social situation.

Sorry about the length of this.

 

[Laura]

I finished reading the book "Breakthrough to Creativity" by Shafica Karagulla written in 1967. I only saw one other post about her in the forum. She dealt with what she called the "Higher Sense Perception" and the book talks frequently about energy fields and people who she called sensitives that were able to see these fields. What I wasn't expecting to find and what relates to this topic is the following taken from pages 162-170:<snip>

Thanks for this great excerpt.

I think that the "sappers" could be OPs or they could just be individuals who have been pathologized and some of their own energy generating systems shut down. Either way, the result is the same. But I DO tend more to the OP explanation.

Another thing to think about is that this sort of thing can happen with two individuals who would otherwise be normal, but who have injured systems, and their interaction together is detrimental to both. In such situations, it can be difficult to figure out who is draining whom. I think that it often occurs in relationships where there is no frequency match; each partner is trying to pull the other into their own reality, or trying to be what the other wants them to be when it is not a natural part of their being. So much energy gets used up in this dynamic that both suffer.

 

[realitybugll]

Another thing to think about is that this sort of thing can happen with two individuals who would otherwise be normal, but who have injured systems, and their interaction together is detrimental to both. In such situations, it can be difficult to figure out who is draining whom. I think that it often occurs in relationships where there is no frequency match; each partner is trying to pull the other into their own reality, or trying to be what the other wants them to be when it is not a natural part of their being. So much energy gets used up in this dynamic that both suffer.

I have been trying to put a name to the relationship I have with my mom, and what your wrote above is extremely similar to the conclusion I've came to over the past month or so. There is so much feeding in our relationship yet I feel we are for the most part nice, empathetic people. it is strange. My resolution has been to (instead of blaming my mom), take it upon myself to break the feeding cycle which means much more external consideration on my part. My logic is that if I can stop my part of the negative energy exchange (or whatever exactly is going on), overtime my mom's feeding will also stop... This is very hard for me to do though. we have been in this feeding cycle for years and so its super hard to break. I commit myself to being externally considerate, then the next minute I decide I just can't take it anymore because my mom is "hurting" me by saying something, and I start yelling and becoming irate. Then what is interesting, if I am feeling very abused, I will begin to try to get an emotional reaction out of my mom and hurt her purposely. I think my mom does it to me more unconsciously; for instance:why can't you be like... , your not trying hard enough, you NEVER do anything to help, etcetera.

Anyways that is a bit tangental, but what I want to say lastly, is that by "committing" myself to stop my feeding, one thing I've really noticed is the amount of feeding that really goes on The amount of times I notice, and suppress, a mostly conditioned and habitual reaction to my mom's feeding, which could be hurtful to her, is shocking. Then there is the times where I do notice I am about to feed yet it is "too late" and I go all for it. This is not to mention all the feeding instances which probably fly under my radar.

An interesting effect in the last month or so which I'm liking, is that, after having a particularly bad feeding episode, instead of resolving myself to HATE my mom, what I do is resolve myself to try even harder to stop my reactions from getting out of control, to be more externally considerate etc. Also what is happening is I am crying much more. I think this is because in the instances when my mom is feeding and I decide to not reciprocate, her words impact me much more because I'm not 'feeding back at her' which suppresses my emotional response maybe. or suppresses my 'emotional awareness. Another reason I think I've been crying more (I very rarely do) is because I've become aware of a vast amount of what I've been calling "negative energy" between us, and in our household. For the most part when I did cry the last few months I did it alone, but a few times not. when not, I get the sympathy reaction from my mom (she is more empathetic than me maybe) which I crave but also feel very guilty about. not sure how to feel about that.
My mom cries at least once a week or more at home. (if thats not indicative of feeding by me/ my brother, I'm not sure what is.) I've become conditioned maybe unresponsive to her crying perhaps, but I'm not exactly sure what to make of it...



So maybe I can ask a question... I feel my mom has amazing STO instincts. her whole life she has been independent, and a hard worker. Always thinking of others etc. In the same way, she believes in a "divine cosmic mind" :D / god / creator, but refutes organized religions. It is interesting though... she does not go beyond this. She would never care to investigate "spirituality" I guess. maybe that is not totally true... what I am trying to say is that I believe she has a small or unused intellectual center? maybe it has declined, because it was shocking for me to find out she took calculus in college. In my opinion when she does "think" her logic is to reinforce / support her emotions. its emotional reinforcing, thinking.

For instance, I asked her the question recently, "what is wrong with organized religions?" or similar in wording. (because you would think someone who takes that stance has done some thinking about it perhaps???" My mom referred to pedophilia in the christian church, but that was the only reasoning besides "it just doesn't feel right..." or "I've always considered myself more spiritual". and then she asked me "do you think I'm a spiritual person" and I was like "Okayyyy.... yes." I then asked her so what is wrong with buddhism, to which she didn't answer. So maybe she isn't really against organized religion, but she says she is... it is strange to me, my mom has these amazing qualities, and intuitive feelings about life, and living life, yet how did she get to these conclusions I wonder somehow...

Sometimes What I will say is similar to "Mom you need to think" "your not very intellectual" "your not too smart". These are extremely narccistictic and it happens when I get "annoyed" or fed up, and in these situations my mom is not even doing feeding herself probably.. By default I am more intellectual than emotional I guess. thats how I would consider myself. maybe not much more, but very intellectually dominant / driven at times. I'm thinking maybe this is something that could contribute to what Laura describes as a poor "frequency match". to simplify, can an emotional person get along with an intellectual person? It seems like I have more a problem with my mom being emotional, then she does with my intellectualness... It seems possible, but requires some work on my part. One of the defining aspects of the negative energy between us really does have to do with this principle of my mom being emotional, and me intellectual i think. perhaps not.

My mom's non-thinking will get me very annoyed, more-so when her "non-thinking" lets her make mean statements to me. she says "you hate me" "you don't care about anyone but yourself". these hurt me A LOT :(. It not just that she says this, but I am almost 100% sure she feels this way :(. When she has drunken too much, she gets very depressed and will continue the same line of thought only she isn't angry when she says it. emotionally she feels severely attacked by her children (me and my brother) and severely under-appreciated. I'm not totally sure, that is my speculation. In some cases her feelings aren't true to reality though. My brother likes to tell her "thats warped thinking... your living in a warped reality." At the same-time I have to reason even if intellectually I don't "understand" her attack me, her emotions are not insignificant. how significant? I'm not sure. (this is a lot of thoughts jumbled around sorry).

Conclusion: I'm going to keep following my realization to end my "feeding" with my mom. really it is a simple realization. people are always saying "you are the one who has to make the change" but it hard to get there sometimes. especially when their is someone else to "blame" for the non-change. its my approach for the moment, and will continue to observe and results. I feel like saying "thanks for letting me post" I sure shared a lot. In a way you guys did "allow" me to post; the previous posts and the topic all encouraging me.

I referred to emotions / thoughts / emotional center / intellectual center. For the most part I used my own definitions of Gurdjieff's terminology I think. sorry to offend Gurdjieff LOL. I hope you guys get my ideas.

 

[Risen]

Thank you Anart and Aaronr for your words of encouragement. I will try to take them on board.

RyanX, while it is understandable and appropriate to take a break from people for a while, I think the degree to which I have increasingly isolated myself has become unhealthy. For the last 2 and a half years, and more completely for the last year ... I have really pushed EVERYone away. I barely remember the social creature that I used to be. I know that this is not 'normal'.

Auranimal, again, I could have written what you have said here except that I have had almost no contact with anyone outside of work for 6 years, including my own grown children. I agree that it is not normal but neither is being constantly manipulated and drained by those around us. I do not have even one person in my life who is interested in anything besides their own sick fantasy world. I am a waitress in a restaurant so the techniques you mentioned will be very helpful if I can remember and find the strength to practice them at the appropriate moment. I do sometimes encounter customers who are a breath of fresh air in the midst of the carnage and most of my loving, sharing encounters with caring people are with people I never see again. This is enough to give me hope and I am strengthened by those brief interactions.

I think that the "sappers" could be OPs or they could just be individuals who have been pathologized and some of their own energy generating systems shut down. Either way, the result is the same. But I DO tend more to the OP explanation.

I agree with you Laura, most of them seem to be OP's. I know we are not supposed to be trying to spot the OP, so to speak, but after long and careful observation of people in general I believe I am beginning to get a feel for them. I'm sure that sometimes a person is so damaged that they appear the same but there seems to be a subtle difference in vibration. Of course I could be wrong so I try not to label people as such and just see them as energy suckers, period. I have noticed that treating them with respect and being compassionate with them while standing firm and not allowing them to feed is a powerful defense. It is difficult to do and takes great concentration and practice but well worth it when successful. Being constantly in the public can be a great training ground for psychological "warfare". I know that if I had even one friend with me whom I could physicaly "hang out" with it would make a tremendous difference so I am doing what I can to prepare myself to be ready to meet my comrades because , for some reason, I know we will meet soon and this may also be the case with you Auranimal. I do not know how I would survive without the fellowship of people on the forum.