Oslo Bombing and Utoya Island Massacre

[birk]

Some thoughts from Norway:

I have followed the story quite closely since Friday and it is just terrible.
I live in a small place with about 1000 people of which two young boys aged 21 and 18 were killed at Utøya.
The town is of course in shock and grief

Breivik is supposed to have used special fragmenting bullets to cause maximum internal damage.

At this time it seems the media are going for the lone gunman theory despite numerous witness reports about a second shooter.
The police say they are investigating the possibility of a helper but there is very limited information about this in the media.
Breivik is supposed to have said he acted alone. I think this is suspicious.

hopefully the coming days will bring more clarity around the operation and I am very curious if/when the police will release surveilance tapes of the explosion(s) in oslo.

There was a "positive" message from the police today; they will propably adjust down the number of casualties during the day.

fwiw, birk

 

[Giray Khan the Brave]

I live in a small place with about 1000 people of which two young boys aged 21 and 18 were killed at Utøya.
The town is of course in shock and grief

Hi birk,

As the father of two young boys, your post just reminded me once again how terrible this event was and how hard it must be to go through such a time.

I wanted to take the opportunity to say that all of us here pray that Spirit will give you and your brave nation the resilience and the patience to endure the aftermath of this event...

 

[chaps23]

Norwegian Massacre a Greenbaum?

So I did a quick search on the forum and did not find any open thread discussing this so if there is pls merge. (or place in appropraite spot)

As most of you have herd about the recent disaster in Norway, a good friend of mine has just travelled there and I have not yet been able to contact him, although I am sure he is fine this subject has still sparked my interest in the event as to what sinister plans might be behind this or not.

Was the Norwegian massacre committed by a Greenbaum programmed person?

If so was he deliberatly triggered? or another one of those accidental discharges so to speak?

If not what were his intentions?.... Is he simply Crazy or trying to prove a political point?

Please anyone with any insight I would love to discuss.


Regards,

Brent.

 

[Vulcan59]

Re: Norwegian Massacre a Greenbaum?

Hi chaps23,

The Norwegian massacre is being discussed here and there is another member who asked the same question. I'll merge your post. :)

 

[realitybugll]

I've been following this story for the last few days. It is an interesting coincidence for me...because I was looking through some books on freemasonry and secret societies and I had a guy approach me and give me a lecture on the Knights Templar how they upheld Christianity...

So one of the most interesting parts of this case with Andrew Breivik is his claim about this modern revival of the knights templar and there being other "cells" like himself. To me I associate the Knights templar, freemasonry with the Occult from what little I know, but this modern revival that Breivik depicts has nothing to do with the Occult. Actually he dismisses the existing freemasonry groups as just imitation, that there is nothing left that resembles the heroic actions of the Knights Templar. He believes in violence or "shock attacks" to be a legitimate method for starting change so he is very dismissive of everything else.

What his compendium tells of is a three step solution actually beginning with shock attacks but the plan is really for a violent revolution through all of Europe. in order to save Europe.

One thing that is interesting is the probability that there really exists a larger network besides himself. He blatantly claims there is but gives very little evidence and there is No evidence I have seen so far. And why announce it in his compendium? And why give the odd hints that maybe are just delusional and to scare the reader? So what is interesting to me is the chance that he was manipulated and how he was manipulating. He tells about some of his inspiration being political happenings... he mentions some kind of mentor... so I am speculating is he acting out an agenda and how.

His style of writing directly addresses the reader. encouraging others to follow in his footsteps...but it seems not probable that others could/will engage with him in this way through the reading.

I have not read too much but one thing I wanted to understand his parts of his philosophy itself. Some of it is legitimate. He has grievances with the "Multicultural" agenda...and some of it makes sense. In my mind there is not a multicultural conspiracy but to him it seems so. He wants recognition to the fact that there is ethnic differences between Arabs and whites... indeed the cultures are different and should they be mixed?

There is a lot that is logical. I think he cannot grasp that we are 7 billion beings on earth trying to survive or to live. he does not see the true evil... for him the evil began as communism... At least in Europe. The sense I get is that he does not hate Arabs just as a fact but he hates the integration with our culture and the degradation of Judeo christian lifestyle. But he is so deluded here... can he articulate what so good about the 1950's in America...in Norway before "isamisation" began to be felt... i don't think so. The funny thing is he hates homosexuals too... the one thing that is relate-able to many is his concerns on the sexualization of European youth. This includes to him, I gathered, the turning of straight youth gay through the promotion / avocation of gay rights. but he blames this on "Islam" or Arabs in general, I don't know which, but this does not make any sense...

He is such a smart guy... I have to give more thought to his writing. the problem is as I read it... i realize how unconscious I am when I read. I start to assimilate his points his ideas... The historic perspective he gives. Unless I am careful i start to take it as truth which is shocking because I no it is anything but the truth.

There is some good history i think in the compendium. He talks about the link from Social Marxism to cultural Marxism into the United states hippie movement. And I can understand why he would hate these Marxist professors and students. Clearly there has been large social changes in the world in the recent hundred years and there is many reasons to resent it.

Those are my thoughts on the compendium. To think that he killed so many children like that. I have to imagine that he is not really "present" inside himself. There is also speculation he was on some kind of mind-altering medications to purposely strengthen himself...and this is confirmed by the book. The video games influence too... it is very reminiscent of the Columbine shootings.

 

[obyvatel]

[quote author=wetroof]
He is such a smart guy... I have to give more thought to his writing. the problem is as I read it... i realize how unconscious I am when I read. I start to assimilate his points his ideas... The historic perspective he gives. Unless I am careful i start to take it as truth which is shocking because I no it is anything but the truth.
.....................
I have not read too much but one thing I wanted to understand his parts of his philosophy itself. Some of it is legitimate.
........................
There is a lot that is logical.
.........................
There is some good history i think in the compendium. He talks about the link from Social Marxism to cultural Marxism into the United states hippie movement. And I can understand why he would hate these Marxist professors and students. Clearly there has been large social changes in the world in the recent hundred years and there is many reasons to resent it.


[/quote]

I could be mistaken but it seems to me that you (at least some parts of you) are getting identified with pathological propaganda and also developing a sort of appreciation for a mass murderer. In other words, the ponerizing influence seems to be getting to you. Propaganda uses information that contains some factual elements and then spins that with lies to create a somewhat believable package to manipulate minds.

Are you familiar with ponerology? You can find numerous quotes from the book Political Ponerology in the forum and may also want to look at the website http://www.ponerology.com/

[quote author=wetroof]
To think that he killed so many children like that. I have to imagine that he is not really "present" inside himself. There is also speculation he was on some kind of mind-altering medications to purposely strengthen himself...and this is confirmed by the book.
[/quote]

It could also be possible that he did not have "anything really present inside himself" at any time. Have you considered that possibility?

[quote author=wetroof]
He has grievances with the "Multicultural" agenda...and some of it makes sense. In my mind there is not a multicultural conspiracy but to him it seems so. He wants recognition to the fact that there is ethnic differences between Arabs and whites... indeed the cultures are different and should they be mixed?
[/quote]

Is the above a rhetorical question? What are your views on that and did it change in any way after reading the compendium?

 

[Arne]

This massacre is just crazy. My first initial thought was Secret Team and they are gonna blame it on Libya. But it twisted around. One of the last articles on sott builds up on the Greenbauming hypothesis. His father was a diplomat in London in the 70ties and was divorced when ABB was 1 year old.

Breivik called his upbringing in a middle-class home in Oslo privileged, even though his parents divorced when he was one and he lost contact with his father in his teens.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/232441-Norwegian-terrorist-s-father-was-London-diplomat

 

[Voyageur]

[quote author=chaps23]

Was the Norwegian massacre committed by a Greenbaum programmed person?
[/quote]

It seems that quite possibly, as many here may have pondered, that he/they either were self/directly programmed or an operational program found he/they and made such diabolical use. The coincidences of events, the insanity and intense shock on people produced, share some subtle signs of a type of evil ephemeral undercurrent that has existed for a long time. Of course there are many dots to connect in this circumstance, both human and political, yet facts are likely to be blurred, suppressed or manipulated as they usually are. As example, like the Oswald fantasy story and its historical fallout on many levels, or the current efforts to affect geopolitical streams, both western domestic or Middle Eastern in particular, and with powerful social ptb engineering, utilizing any number of global methods to induce shocks, programs, thefts and compliance; both as example had or are having the same effective ends and continuances, osit

 

[realitybugll]

Hi obyvatel, I haven't read political ponerology but it is on my list after this other book, because it is close to the subject I am investigating at the moment. Maybe it will add some pieces to the puzzle for me.

Propaganda uses information that contains some factual elements and then spins that with lies to create a somewhat believable package to manipulate minds.

right… I guess you could call it propaganda. It's also his beliefs. So I its not intentionally misleading. I'm trying to figure out what is truth and what is lies. his method and ideology seems wrong to me. The fact that his ideology creates different groups of people i.e class A,B,C traitors who should be punished, I guess that is the method part. But the idea that he classifies people as traitors to a judeo-christian cause when they might not even be conscious of it. the cause itself. He writes a lot about the negative influence of Arabs in Western Europe. uses statistics. I guess trying to figure out how / why Andrew comes to blame all the problems of society (which I can sympathize with for the most part) on Arab immigration to Europe.

also developing a sort of appreciation for a mass murderer.

Yes its odd…but I can't help but appreciate him in some way. I wouldn't say I have respect for him. I couldn't really say that. But I am stunned at person who is able to kill so many people face-to-face and be "rational" for the most part. I mean he planned it for at least two years, up to nine or more, but he followed through. I guess it is just psychopathy. It's his confidence that intrigues me. He confidence in fighting the government alone as an individual. It is like it made his life worth living... I know what he did is not a real achievement in fact its the opposite. I don't appreciate it but I'm attracted to it that is all. I think it is similar to why I like to watch action movies.

indeed the cultures are different and should they be mixed?

I think that the mixing is inevitable due to I guess the economic and political differences in different geographies. And I think it causes tension because the cultures are different because they are "outsiders". I suppose it is like "immigration". Also has to do with the economic position of immigrants. I don't think the mixing is the cause of societal problems like he paints it out to be. I always think the cause--effect framework is limiting but I'm not sure if that is his exact message. For the immigrant families that I know personally I feel sorry for them. Both of the families I know were higher class in their countries (Nepal and Ethiopia) I guess that part of why they are able to come to America. But I just think they should have stayed. America is not a good place to raise a child. One of the children in one of the families was born with Autism...I wonder why... I suppose I can't really judge if different societies should mix with each other or not. Also their cultures are lost to the next generation which is sad to see. So I suppose these views are very different then Andrew. But I want to understand his views. maybe it is pointless.

This is a part of the manifesto that I'll quote. It's kind of interesting as a summation of the way he sees society.

Most Europeans look back on the 1950s as a good time. Our homes were safe, to the point where many people did not bother to lock their doors. Public schools were generally excellent, and their problems were things like talking in class and running in the halls. Most men treated women like ladies, and most ladies devoted their time and effort to making good homes, rearing their children well and helping their communities through volunteer work. Children grew up in two–parent households, and the mother was there to meet the child when he came home from school. Entertainment was something the whole family could enjoy.
What happened?
If a man of the 1950s were suddenly introduced into Western Europe in the 2000s, he would hardly recognise it as the same country. He would be in immediate danger of getting mugged, carjacked or worse, because he would not have learned to live in constant fear. He would not know that he shouldn’t go into certain parts of the city, that his car must not only be locked but equipped with an alarm, that he dare not go to sleep at night without locking the windows and bolting the doors – and setting the electronic security system.
If he brought his family with him, he and his wife would probably cheerfully pack their children off to the nearest public school. When the children came home in the afternoon and told them they had to go through a metal detector to get in the building, had been given some funny white powder by another kid and learned that homosexuality is normal and good, the parents would be uncomprehending.
In the office, the man might light up a cigarette, drop a reference to the “little lady,” and say he was happy to see the firm employing some coloured folks in important positions. Any of those acts would earn a swift reprimand, and together they might get him fired.
When she went into the city to shop, the wife would put on a nice suit, hat, and possibly gloves. She would not understand why people stared, and mocked.
And when the whole family sat down after dinner and turned on the television, they would not understand how pornography from some sleazy, blank-fronted “Adults Only” kiosk had gotten on their set.
Were they able, our 1950s family would head back to the 1950s as fast as they could, with a gripping horror story to tell. Their story would be of a nation that had decayed and degenerated at a fantastic pace, moving in less than a half a century from the greatest countries on earth to Third World nations, overrun by crime, noise, drugs and dirt. The fall of Rome was graceful by comparison.

I think I can appreciate the fact, I think gurdjieff said it, no man ever does anything in the interests of evil, only in the interest of good as they see it.

 

[nicklebleu]

wetroof,

You have to be very wary of this "us vs. them" spiel, which is one of the most effective ploys of the psychopathic agenda.

People have grievances with others for a lot of different reasons. These are manipulated by the psychopaths to put a wedge between the "normal" people, so that they don't recognize the true enemy and continue their endless infighting. It is not christian vs. islamic, poor vs. rich, homosexual vs. heterosexual, man vs. woman, white vs. black etc., etc. but it is US the normal people against the PSYCHOPATHS.

There is an article that describes this very well. Don't be put off by the repetitive nature of the author's style and his long lists of comparisons ... I think it will give you an excellent overview to what I mean!

The article has the title: WE GROW UP, NOW, OR WE DIE by Mathew Kristin Kiel, and can be found here

 

[know_yourself_1234]

I cannot believe that a man alone killed 80 people, whatever weapon he could have

He could in the time he had to do it. That's what infuriates me about this incident and also the Columbine Massacre. In Columbine, the shooters were walking around the school shooting for an hour an a half (if I remember right). All the time there was a SWAT team outside waiting until it was "safe" to go in!!!

What has been exercising my mind very much since Virginia Tech shooting is, why in such cases the shooter goes on shooting and killing so many people, and nobody fights back.

Even untrained people, when acting in an organized fashion in a group of 5 or 10, could have ran him over and taken him down. Somebody of the group may have been hurt, but so many lives would have been spared.

Yes I do agree, and I even thought about "throwing" something to him, like rocks or whatever that could neutralize him. But I think that I am in a complete iinadequate state of mind by thinking so, maybe because my "idea of coherence" depends now about not being in such a situation, as I am writing.

EDIT: quotes


Edit=fixed broken quote tag

 

[Windmill knight]

Hi obyvatel, I haven't read political ponerology but it is on my list after this other book, because it is close to the subject I am investigating at the moment. Maybe it will add some pieces to the puzzle for me.

[...]

Yes its odd…but I can't help but appreciate him in some way. I wouldn't say I have respect for him. I couldn't really say that. But I am stunned at person who is able to kill so many people face-to-face and be "rational" for the most part. I mean he planned it for at least two years, up to nine or more, but he followed through. I guess it is just psychopathy. It's his confidence that intrigues me. He confidence in fighting the government alone as an individual. It is like it made his life worth living... I know what he did is not a real achievement in fact its the opposite. I don't appreciate it but I'm attracted to it that is all. I think it is similar to why I like to watch action movies.

When you read Ponerology, pay attention to schizoidal psychopathy. Here is a fragment:

During stable times which are ostensibly happy, albeit marked by injury to individuals and nations, doctrinaire people believe they have found a simple solution to fix such a world. Such a historical period is always characterized by an impoverished psychological world-view, a schizoidally impoverished psychological world-view thus does not stand out during such times and is accepted as legal tender. These doctrinaire individuals characteristically manifest a certain contempt with regard to moralists then preaching the need to rediscover lost human values and to develop a richer, more appropriate psychological world-view.

Schizoid characters aim to impose their own conceptual world upon other people or social groups, using relatively controlled pathological egotism and the exceptional tenacity derived from their persistent nature. They are thus eventually able to overpower another individual’s personality, which causes the latter’s behavior to turn desperately illogical. They may also exert a similar influence upon the group of people they have joined. They are psychological loners who feel better in some human organization, wherein they become zealots for some ideology, religious bigots, materialists, or adherents of an ideology with satanic features. If their activities consist of direct contact on a small social scale, their acquaintances easily perceive them to be eccentric, which limits their ponerogenic role. However, if they manage to hide their own personality behind the written word, their influence may poison the minds of society in a wide scale and for a long time.

The cult of power thus supplants those mental values so essential for maintaining law and order by peaceful means. A nation’s enrichment or involution regarding its psychological world-view could be considered an indicator of whether its future will be good or bad.

 

[seekr]

This is a part of the manifesto that I'll quote. It's kind of interesting as a summation of the way he sees society.

Most Europeans look back on the 1950s as a good time. Our homes were safe, to the point where many people did not bother to lock their doors. Public schools were generally excellent, and their problems were things like talking in class and running in the halls. Most men treated women like ladies, and most ladies devoted their time and effort to making good homes, rearing their children well and helping their communities through volunteer work. Children grew up in two–parent households, and the mother was there to meet the child when he came home from school. Entertainment was something the whole family could enjoy.
What happened?
If a man of the 1950s were suddenly introduced into Western Europe in the 2000s, he would hardly recognise it as the same country. He would be in immediate danger of getting mugged, carjacked or worse, because he would not have learned to live in constant fear. He would not know that he shouldn’t go into certain parts of the city, that his car must not only be locked but equipped with an alarm, that he dare not go to sleep at night without locking the windows and bolting the doors – and setting the electronic security system.
If he brought his family with him, he and his wife would probably cheerfully pack their children off to the nearest public school. When the children came home in the afternoon and told them they had to go through a metal detector to get in the building, had been given some funny white powder by another kid and learned that homosexuality is normal and good, the parents would be uncomprehending.
In the office, the man might light up a cigarette, drop a reference to the “little lady,” and say he was happy to see the firm employing some coloured folks in important positions. Any of those acts would earn a swift reprimand, and together they might get him fired.
When she went into the city to shop, the wife would put on a nice suit, hat, and possibly gloves. She would not understand why people stared, and mocked.
And when the whole family sat down after dinner and turned on the television, they would not understand how pornography from some sleazy, blank-fronted “Adults Only” kiosk had gotten on their set.
Were they able, our 1950s family would head back to the 1950s as fast as they could, with a gripping horror story to tell. Their story would be of a nation that had decayed and degenerated at a fantastic pace, moving in less than a half a century from the greatest countries on earth to Third World nations, overrun by crime, noise, drugs and dirt. The fall of Rome was graceful by comparison.

I think I can appreciate the fact, I think gurdjieff said it, no man ever does anything in the interests of evil, only in the interest of good as they see it.

Yes those differences do exist now, but how can ANY of the above changes be attributed to the immigration of Muslims?!?

Perhaps a better place for blame, would be the theft of Palestinian land to create the Zionist nation just prior to 1950 (the theft continues even today) and the now Zionist owned world media along with the "Social Engineering" of the Psychopathic Banksters..... combined with our ignorance of the Puppet Masters

Just a thought

 

[The rabbit]

Listening / watching Live norwegian police conference.

Question was asked.

A fireman said that three shots were heard after Breivik was apprhended.

Police answer we are not willing to answer such question.

Answering questions in English in 10 minutes from now 16:33 (gmt+1)

 

[Mr. Premise]

Listening / watching Live norwegian police conference.

Question was asked.

A fireman said that three shots were heard after Breivik was apprhended.

Police answer we are not willing to answer such question.

Answering questions in English in 10 minutes from now 16:33 (gmt+1)

Is there a newspaper that will publish the transcript in the original language? It's always good to grab that stuff before any cleanups.

(edit: punctuation)