Paul's Necessary Sin: The Experience of Liberation - Pauline Christianity = PaleoChristianity

Luks

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
To my understanding. Authentic Christianity (PaleoChristianity), conveyed to us i.a. by Paul is a "story" about the three main "characters" play in the Universe: STO, STS, Free Will, and basic settings due to the Universe/Nature/Cosmic Mind works. In other words, this is the basic knowledge to understand until someone goes to the 4 Density.

I already write what I have on my mind. There is one very important factor in how the Universe works. Everything that we give comes back to us. This idea is related to karma too. Karma exists as something that can be "translated" to energy and information terms. This leads us to that that recognizes something as Karma requires from us some understanding of what karma is, and as a result, we have "karmic and simple understanding" - the notable fragment from C's sessions.

When we read that, you shouldn't steal. Oh yes, because stealing creates unbalance. When somebody gets something from another what comes to be his ownership (it also represents something at the energy and informational level) he became of the owner of something he does not create with his energy, so the universe will balance things and get what he posses because there is anything that can balance of that gained thing at the level of that specific individual.

The sentence: do not do to the other to what is unpleasant to you. Isn't it a suggestion that what bad you do to another can turn against you? So, this could be about balance and karma.

Be good to your neighborhood. Isn't it about keeping respect to these who live their way and could be different in some way, but still they deserve autonomy and if it is necessary to cooperate with them? If you respect the autonomy of another, your autonomy will be respected. If you are open to cooperating, you will find others who will be open to you. Opposite: if you do not respect, you won't be, etc.

Love your enemies. Have mercy. Why? Because if you are good to another who made you suffer, then good come back to you anyway. And this bad person who made you suffer to get what deserve anyway. Even further, if you help this person, who fault, what bad happens, even if he doesn't "deserve" for this help? Nothing, because if you help such a person, you can be helped generally and even in certain greater need, as he. If there is something of what he has to pay, then, do not worry, he will pay it anyway, there is no reason to be against such a person.

What if you are in a team that shears the wood. And you see that you do the most of the job and others do less than you. Then do not be disappointed about that. Some day you will come late to the job for about 1 hour. And you ask if you have to stay for 1 hour in the job, then you will be surprised that somebody says to you then you don't need it because circumstances have arisen that your comrade started earlier his job and sees that there will be no reason for you to stay longer.

Another example. Let say you have food because you make preparation before hard times. These hard times came and you see a hungry man. And you do not give him a portion of food because you say to yourself that this is his fault that he had not got the knowledge and not prepare himself. Okay, but at some point in "time", you can be in his situation. You were prepared, but someway you lose you canned food in the fire. You go on the street and ask for food, and then another man will find an excuse: "You should keep an eye on your stove."...

Have the spirit of Christ formed in self is to achieve the state when you do not see/feel/think any longer about need/reason/motive to any activity embodying of the idea of hurt, suppress, control, abuse another human being and possession of his thing, money, energy in the way of robbery, scam, cheat, manipulation, lie etc.

What is the practical meaning of these things? When we, for instance, from today, start to be Christians. That means to be ready for long hill climbing. We start to react to other people in our life who appear in various situations in the way of examination if our deeds: 1)"In this situation I am/I will break the free will of other?" ...If not, then this is the right direction... 2) "In this situation I give or I get something (energy, money, ...)?"

And step by step, I create my new reality. Create reality in a factual way, not in my mind (basing on wishful thinking), but in real life, by getting back what I gave to others. As my life goes and new events and situations with other people happens there, I find new opportunity to make a choice acting the way that reflects love, at the same time taking on self bad moments paying karmic debts.

With progression, the Universe goes back with events and people who mirror good deeds made by the individual. If the relationship between this certain individual and other person seeks clarification, the means finally make them free of karmic tie and every one of them achieved the level of being of self-discipline, self-control, and required crystallization has been achieved, then both of them are in the Christ.

From that point, other people can get into the circle. The next stage is to form bigger groups. Until the growing Spirit embraces the whole of humanity by pulling it out of 4D STS domination. It is so simple (in a sense), but see how humanity deviated. The simple ways of behavior would be able to slip out of Snake's rule, by no feed him by negative emotions energy and change the fate of humanity. This is maybe not all that allows for 4D graduate but surely keep humanity closer to it.

What is Sin? When the state of the Spirit of Christ is the state where souls are in balance, what means that these souls (the consciousness units) are not in relation where any conscious being of that group does not in process of any kind of abuse (in more spiritual meaning: get energy or something like that) from another conscious unit or be victimized by another. So, the Sin will be a primal break of that state of union between souls, start to be against themselves, the unbalance between them, where one gets energy from another and the further abuser is abused too, and so on, and so on. The 'little sins' coming from the bigger Sin, are all these wrongdoings.

If we interpret this Sin as something that was intended by certain higher force and experiencing the effect of that first main sin was also designed, then this is really the Necessary Sin. And stop to live in the Sin is really Liberation because in the current state humanity is convicted only to the closed circle of meaningless picking up of the energy instead focus these energies and to something magnificent in the spiritual world.
 

gnosisxsophia

Jedi Council Member
How about giving a reference for "Artemes" vs Artemis and what you think that implies. A She-bear goddess and "perfects" connection do not seem very logical with such little information.


Yes, apologies...the quote was from a book by Harold Bayley.

The inner (spirit) vs outer (material) conversation above, had happened to combine with thoughts of Isaiah's 'ascent' and 'angels' relative to Caesar / 'Jesus' as a 'Celestial' figure with Paul the 'physical' counterpart - along this sort of line;


Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you... You are not your own.


Where the bold accent and capitalisation of 'Origin', in your quote, relative to genetics / 'bloodlines';


... the inner “Origin” – or Edenic state...

...the important point is: those with the spark of the divine within cannot worship outside what is inside. No matter how hard they may try to “have faith” in this god or that god who has promised to save them, that divine spark within will constantly agitate, asking questions and casting doubts. Such individuals carry the bloodline – the genetic traits – to manifest the Origin...


Brought this to mind;


A: Is that your origin?

Q: You mean Orion?

A: Interesting the word root similarity, yes?

Q: So, I should be more careful of what I say in regards to the discoveries I have made about the bloodline of Jesus on the 'Jesus' pages on the web?

A: Tread lightly.

Q: Alright, I will. Where did these bloodlines originate?

A: Orion region.

A: Bloodline extends off the planet.


Which made me ponder the 'ancestral home' of the group and also the 'eventual' destination.


A: ... Pay attention to Orion! This is your ancestral home, and your eventual destination...This is a region that extends across 3rd and 4th density space for a distance as vast as the distance between your locator and it...There are overseer zones in 5th and 6th densities.


Wondering then if that was a '4D transition' or 'cessation of the corporeal' type statement and thus maybe also a 'locator' for Caesar (as Jesus) relative to historical, 3D Paul?

Where Corinthians took on another hue;


If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.


One thing leading to another;


...the Hebrew word for Orion (Chesil) is exactly the same as the Hebrew word for fool.


Such that Caesar as not only Paul's inspiration, but also the basis for 'Arthur' of Grail myth, then melded with artos/arcas and arcus - all meaning 'bear'.

And with 'arcus' also Latin for bow...conflating 'Orion' with 'Artemis' (to me) and so on...

In hindsight an interesting 'face in a cloud' such that I'm glad the topic was shared, as now I know :-)
 

seek10

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
In fact, the Amazon format has a copy protection in it that is bound to the user - I don't see any way to convert the format.
With the Kindle for PC I can copy the text page by page and then translate it with deepl ... it's cumbersome but doable.
I am not sure whether you already figured out how to go beyond amazon format issue. If not, here is a way as I found out today. Kindle 1.25 has the DRM(which was hard to bypass). So you need to manually downgrade the kindle on your machine as mentioned in the following link - uninstall the current version, install an older version less than 1.25( the following link has an older version URL for download), and then use any converter software you had to convert from kindle to pdf.
 

ryu

Jedi
FOTCM Member
I just finished reading the book and it truly is a masterpiece. It was hard for me to get into it after so many romance novels, but after the 3 first chapters, it became easier.
I want to thank the Chateau crew and the my fellow forumites for bringing this book to our knowledge and for posting your impressions in this thread, which brings additional comprehensions thanks to the different pov. It's not the kind of book that are advertised in mainstream society, so I am grateful to be able to read works of such quality.
I will read the book again later, but it really made be glad to be human, to participate in all of this, and motivated me to grow. Paul must have been an hell of an orator so that his words are still alive after so many centuries.

Two quotes that really struck me were "we become what we see". It reminded me the words of the Cs "it's not what who you are and what you do that are important, but what you see".
The other was "that selfishness is death, and our world may die because of selfishness" . It really resonate with the global situation, where wishful thinking, greed and blindness are kings. But there is hope and Paul has all my gratitude for dedicating his life to humankind.
 

Kari Baba

Jedi
FOTCM Member
Thank you seek10, that is very attentive!
Indeed I have managed it. I can't remember how, but I have the book in German translation as doc-file.
At the same time, I have translated other English books into German.;-D
I'm desperate here, because I can't translate the English PDF into German. First I converted it to Word, removed all pictures. It still doesn't work. If you have a German translation, would you be OK to share it? I think many German-speaking members would be very happy about that. :-D
 

naorma

Jedi Master
When I was scrolling through this pages a few days ago something happened to me.
I got connected to a very inner part of me that I had nearly lost during the harshness of life. I remembered (not for the first time, but it came more on top now) my childhood. I am about seven years or so and am sitting at my writing desk and looking at the wonderful pictures and stories of Jesus and this warmness and kindness and I am totally happy and safe and feel protected. it is like light, shining, bright and it feels like it cannot be destroyed and is going to shine through me.
Through the last two days these thoughs and feelings came again and again to my mind. And now that I write it down it even gets stronger. So in a way I decided that this is one of my tasks in life. I will walk around with that light in me and let in shine on other people, giving something of the gift I obviously have in me. Smiling at them and be friendly the most often it is possible!

I hope this sounds not to confused but at the moment this is the best I can do and I feel it is important for me to post this. To help me to stay on that line! Thank you very much!! :-[ 🥰 🥰
 

Mike

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Gaby posted this letter/excerpt from Paul here - Paul's Necessary Sin: The Experience of Liberation - Pauline Christianity = PaleoChristianity

I printed this out and have been reading it a number of times of late. Below, after the full quote, are some thoughts.

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

And if I have prophetic powers – that is, the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose; and understand all the secret truths and mysteries and possess all knowledge, and if I have faith so that I can remove mountains, but have not love I am nothing – a useless nobody.

Even if I dole out all that I have to give food to the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy; is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.

It is not conceited – arrogant and inflated with pride; it is not rude, and does not act unbecomingly. Love does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it – pays no attention to a suffered wrong.

It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.

Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstance and it endures everything without weakening.

Love never fails – never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end. As for prophecy, it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will be superseded by truth.

For our knowledge is fragmentary and our prophecy is fragmentary.

But when the complete and perfect comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away – become antiquated, void and superseded.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside.

For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim reflection of reality as in a riddle or an enigma, but then, when perfection comes, we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part; but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood by God.

And so, faith, hope, love abide; these three, but the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 13:1–13)

And Ashworth's translation of the last part:

"For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part. But at the coming of age, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child: when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known." (1 Cor 13:10-12)

The letter, I think, is very interesting and applicable to our current situation. I think it starts out talking about divination:

“"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels”

and “And if I have prophetic powers – that is, the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose”

And comes back to it:

”As for prophecy, it will be fulfilled and pass away”

and “prophecy is fragmentary”

and “as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease”

and possible here as well “For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim reflection of reality as in a riddle or an enigma”

In terms of the “looking in a mirror” quote, it brought to mind, if I remember right, that Nostradamus used a mirror or a bowl of water, or some people think he used, to look into to see things from which he wrote his prophecies. The mirror mentioned by Paul also brings to mind the psychomanteum that Laura writes about using, which includes using a mirror, and also there is mention of the psychomanteum in a few of the sessions.

Could seeing things that might be the future and receiving prophecy from using such things be what Paul is referring to when he says “For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim reflection of reality as in a riddle or an enigma.”

Is he saying we have seen these things through our divination methods (that uses some kind of mirror device), but we don’t know the full extent or truth of what we are seeing or being given to see or shown to try to understand or prophecy from, because it is not fully clear exactly what we are being shown – “riddle or an enigma” and “our prophecy is fragmentary”?

And he seems to also be saying that we have some knowledge, but “our knowledge is fragmentary” and “as for knowledge, it will be superseded by truth.“ What the “truth” might be I mention below.

He also mentions faith at the beginning:

if I have faith so that I can remove mountains, but have not love I am nothing – a useless nobody.

And comes back to faith at the very end:

And so, faith, hope, love abide; these three, but the greatest of these is love.

And his answer to this is to have and posses the love he details in the letter as the greatest of all of these.

He seems to be saying we can have our divination/prophecy and our knowledge and our faith in things (and we only have a part or fragment of these and not the full picture), but if we have no love and don’t act with the love he describes toward each other and reality, then it is all for not. That love bridges the gap with these other things.

And what might Paul see as the gap that is being bridged or to what end he and other people are reaching for and striving for?

”as for knowledge, it will be superseded by truth.

”But when the complete and perfect comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away – become antiquated, void and superseded.”

“but then, when perfection comes, we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part; but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly

It seems to me he is saying that when the transition happens to 4D, then we will have the truth and understand fully and clearly in terms of what has been given via divination and prophesy. Our knowledge and view of reality will be “complete and perfect”. That the things we have been seeing in the mirror in terms of divination/prophecy will be experienced “in reality and face to face” in 4D. This “face to face” could also possibly mean that they were seeing and interacting with people and/or beings when looking in the mirror and when the transition to 4D happens they will see and interact with them “in reality and face to face”.

This is also all related to becoming an adult from being a child. So the transition from 3D to 4D could be seen as becoming an adult from a child.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside.

And until that time of transition to 4D and what we are seeing via our divination and prophesy, we should:

And so, faith, hope, love abide; these three, but the greatest of these is love.

And that without love in what we are doing in the here and now and toward each other and reality, it does not mean much of anything. You can have knowledge, divine or prophecy things, have faith, and give or donate to the poor or to whatever, but love is essential. The love that Paul describes, but also, I think, the love Laura describes in the last chapter of the last Wave book.

Finally, some things I was thinking the other night and now after reading the full quote above.

For those that are like a child, are the opposite of what Paul writes about in terms of love, those that ignore reality or are ignorant in terms of reality, those that are in error in understanding and behavior toward others and reality and the actions they take (or even lack of action), the possible suffering ahead may give them the opportunity to be and see a different way and learn through experience and suffering to appreciate and become the attributes of love Paul describes and to possess this love and perspective. To become an adult with this love.

Another thought is that even if a person thinks they are pure in intent and they are good, if they are a child, they will get the results of a child and need to face suffering to learn and possibly learn to see and act differently. To become an adult. As the C’s say, all there is is lessons. Life is religion. This one big school. But that does not mean the school or lessons are easy and suffering, the ‘punishment’ for error or the road to learning lessons, can lead a person toward learning, seeing, and acting clearly or in alignment with the path they have chosen. I remember back to the C’s session where the topic of punishing a child comes up and I remember Ark talking about his mom punishing him for playing on the train tracks. Without the punishment he may have gotten injured or killed. The suffering from the punishment taught him the lesson of not going on the tracks.

Universe (‘God’) and reality could be seen as the headmaster of the school guiding all beings within the universe in their lessons and the opportunity to learn through experience and trial and error. Learning from suffering created by this trial and error. These lessons can only be learned by doing and experiencing, with suffering being a key component of this learning. That Universe is just and true for all. It allows beings the free will choice to choose the path they desire. You advance and get out of this school proportional to the effort you put into learning and growing along that path. But Universe will also be unwavering in what it takes to pass tests and lessons and to move to the next level. And first a person needs to strive to be an adult who embodies love. I think this might be in part what Paul is talking about in terms of love and that it is the key. The key to progressing on the STO path.
 
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