Paul's Necessary Sin: The Experience of Liberation - Pauline Christianity = PaleoChristianity

lilies

Dagobah Resident
distortion in the translations of the bible are really astonishing. I checked a few passages in the German catholic standard translation, and it's crazy how the translators have imposed church doctrine on the text. For example, "God's word" is often rendered "proclamation" (Verkündigung), which is associated with "Jesus proclaiming the gospels" - reading that, it's impossible to interpret it as something coming from within that animates a person once he has the Christ spirit. Maybe it took a Quaker to figure it out, because the Quaker doctrine of the "inner light" already primes one to that kind of interpretation?
There is for example the expression in a Western, capitalist society based on debt-slavery:
1. "pay attention".
- You have to pay attention! Did you pay attention?! No? How you dare.. You are now guilty and in serious debt.. to me!! -

In an offensive and contractile society based on sarcasm, sexism, exploitation, where people have been conditioned to become power-craving and to psychically feed on each other like good obedient energy-vampires. These are two, ordinary, young adults raising their voices at work, at an international Helpdesk: with every argument of theirs looking like [on the psychic-plane] teethy monster-tentacles lashing out from their foreheads, hitting the targeted other participant and tearing out chunks of life-force, as the argument energetically strikes, then the attackers tentacle reels the catch back, to be gulped down. Then the injured argumentator, now desperate, launches a similar button-pushing riposte, designed to get the lost power and energy back. This attack, (when observed by a Seer / Castaneda's Sorcerer / tele-empath) looks the same again: hitting the other unfortunate, 'who attacked first', then this grisly battle continues until both argumentators are too exhausted [energetically injured] to go on.

I think, this expression - to pay attention - might have looked very different in the old times, in a relatively healthy, sober society. Probably during the times uncorrupted, early Christianity or in a pre-Christ Assyrian group?

2. Here is the raw translation of 'pay attention', the archaic expression from Hungarian:
- Please consecrate your attention onto me!
Or:
- Please involve me into your process of consecration of attention.

Because, I think, if two paid attention this way, they definitely heard each other, crystal clear.

I guess, in old times, when priests cleansed themselves for a holy ritual, communion with God or with the 'higher spheres', they attempted to purify themselves however they could: via washing, fervent prayer, abstaining, etc.. So their thoughts could become as spiritually pure as they could make them.

I think, the goal was to consecrate their attention: purify their thoughts to an extent that when talking to God, praying to God or having communion with [their most respected remote consciousnesses(G.)] sacred beings - saints, The Holy Spirit of Christ or angels, etc.. - their personal 'streams of thought' had to be as pure as possible, so they could present their best versions of themselves before God - to project only pure thoughts toward God during prayer.

The communion - I think - always had to be as pure as possible to make sure that the communication / prayer was received successfully "in heaven". (FRV match between the two parties) So the priests could hope for an answer, which was usually, I think, health and prosperity for the community: peaceful-good trade with other communities, abundant crops, healthy newborns, plague sparing the priests region [fields/forests] / living area more than less.
 
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memeontheroof

The Force is Strong With This One
Hello all

I managed to order a soft-cover copy at a good price from below. They ship worldwide. You can manually change the location and currency at the top to get localised price.
Thanks I rented the ebook for only $28
 

genero81

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
We know that the whole creation has been groaning in labour pains until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves , who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies.

Timothy Ashworth. Paul's Necessary Sin: The Experience of Liberation (Kindle Locations 4197-4199). Routledge. Kindle Edition.

Here and elsewhere it seems Paul is talking about developing a 4th density body.
 

genero81

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
And here:

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Here indeed we groan, and long to put on our heavenly dwelling, so that by putting it on we may not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we sigh with anxiety [Gk ‘groan’]; not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

Timothy Ashworth. Paul's Necessary Sin: The Experience of Liberation (Kindle Locations 4170-4173). Routledge. Kindle Edition.
 

Voyageur

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Regarding fear, there was in the Cassiopaea and Caesar Session from 2014:

Q: (Atriedes) If you could give 3 pieces of advice to the world, what would they be?

A: I was wrong to think I could change the masses by example. Humans are fickle and self-centered for the most part. Thus, if you wish to really effect changes, it can only be done by early education, and even then it is fragile and will not last. In the end you must be true to your own nature and fear nothing. If you do that you may make a difference after you are gone. That is not exactly what you are looking for, but there are no 3 pieces of advice that serve all events.
Small point to even make, yet when Caesar speaks these words above he used the word 'fragile' as in "and even then it is fragile and will not last". This made me think of (it's sitting on my desk) 'Antifragile' by Nassim Nichplas Taleb.

See here:

 

luc

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Paul's idea on spiritual development fits with Gurdjieff's "octaves" quite neatly. Here is the drawing from "Paul's Necessary Sin":

1579428242592.png

On the left, we still need the "law" because we are still "in the flesh" and would give free reign to our egoistic impulses without the law. The coming of Christ represents the "moral bankruptcy", the deep transformative crisis, the orignial "baptizing". After that, we live a life of faith, but are still subject to the fleshly temptations. We deeply want to do the right thing, but often we don't succeed. Finally, when we have reached the "Spirit" stage, our actions and values are completely aligned, the flesh has lost its power over us.

Gurdjieff talks about spiritual progress as a musical octave: we begin with the notes do-re-mi, which correspond to body, emotion and intellect. This is our starting point, and Gurdjieff calls it "mechanical man", Paul "living in the flesh". Paul's wording seems spot-on, since these three functions (body, emotions, intellect) form our biological make-up (i.e. flesh), including all the biological programming (i.e. mechanical). Here is the octave, though it should be ascending in this case:

1579428780995.jpeg

Now, to ascend spiritually, and to reach the note fa (Gurdjieff) or begin our life as "infants in Christ" (Paul), we need a "shock", which often manifests as a deep spiritual crisis/bankruptcy. On the note fa, according to G., a new state of consciousness shows up: we begin to see ourselves as we truly are, from a new, impartial vantage point. This is rather unpleasant and amplifies the crisis in sort of a feedback loop that, if we bear it and use it, "baptizes" us. Hence we become "of the spirit", although dimly, like children. But we find ourselves in an entirely new world nonetheless. However, we are not fully "in the spirit" yet, or in Gurdjieff's terms, we haven't reached the next octave, there's still way to go. If we take Gurdjieff's thoery seriously, before we finally reach the full spirit stage, another big shock is needed when we go from si to do :shock:
 
Paul's idea on spiritual development fits with Gurdjieff's "octaves" quite neatly. Here is the drawing from "Paul's Necessary Sin":

View attachment 33394

On the left, we still need the "law" because we are still "in the flesh" and would give free reign to our egoistic impulses without the law. The coming of Christ represents the "moral bankruptcy", the deep transformative crisis, the orignial "baptizing". After that, we live a life of faith, but are still subject to the fleshly temptations. We deeply want to do the right thing, but often we don't succeed. Finally, when we have reached the "Spirit" stage, our actions and values are completely aligned, the flesh has lost its power over us.

Gurdjieff talks about spiritual progress as a musical octave: we begin with the notes do-re-mi, which correspond to body, emotion and intellect. This is our starting point, and Gurdjieff calls it "mechanical man", Paul "living in the flesh". Paul's wording seems spot-on, since these three functions (body, emotions, intellect) form our biological make-up (i.e. flesh), including all the biological programming (i.e. mechanical). Here is the octave, though it should be ascending in this case:

View attachment 33395

Now, to ascend spiritually, and to reach the note fa (Gurdjieff) or begin our life as "infants in Christ" (Paul), we need a "shock", which often manifests as a deep spiritual crisis/bankruptcy. On the note fa, according to G., a new state of consciousness shows up: we begin to see ourselves as we truly are, from a new, impartial vantage point. This is rather unpleasant and amplifies the crisis in sort of a feedback loop that, if we bear it and use it, "baptizes" us. Hence we become "of the spirit", although dimly, like children. But we find ourselves in an entirely new world nonetheless. However, we are not fully "in the spirit" yet, or in Gurdjieff's terms, we haven't reached the next octave, there's still way to go. If we take Gurdjieff's thoery seriously, before we finally reach the full spirit stage, another big shock is needed when we go from si to do :shock:
Maybe, physical death?
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Maybe, physical death?
@Stoneboss ,

That would certainly do I think. But 5D is a "contemplation" pause between incarnations for "balance" according to the Cs. One thing I have found missing even with Paul is the concept of reincarnation.

Q: (L) Is there some intermediary between the 6th level Orions and the 4th level Lizzies, such as a 5th level force or being?

A: 5th level is contemplation zone for both "sides".

Q: (L) Does that mean that at the contemplation level that there is no activity? (J) Is it like a "time out?"

A: Close. Balancer.


Q: (L) Is there a 3rd level representative of the forces of the light?

A: Yes.


Q: (L) Who or what are they?

A: Don't exist on your planet.

Q: (L) Do they have a planet of their own?

A: Have quadrillions of them.
Just threw in the 3D "forces of the light" planets for contemplation before 5D contemplation.
 

3DStudent

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The outer dimensions of space might correspond to the 'breadth and length and height' which outwardly reflect the inner dimension of space (depth) that we see with the inner eye which is eternity. In this context (from the quote above) it might be that outer space (that we perceive as a two dimensional image on the retina) is but a reflection (or derivative?) of eternity/inner space. So in a sense I guess one can say that looking into outer space is, in a sense, looking into eternity which it is a reflection of. FWIW.
That sounds like we are the projectors. Maybe in a sense that all are fragments of 7D? Also, "duplicate of the Universe within which you dwell" comes to mind. There was a description of the difference of perception between 2D, 3D and 4D. I cannot find it, but it was something like one perceives the differences, another the similarities and 4D I think was the relationship between the object and perciever.
 

seek10

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
’ve shared some chapter summaries and relevant section summaries below with relevant quotes, as well as my own comments about some Gurdjieffian and Cassiopaean corollaries. I only share the G related things as aids because a part of me strongly doubts that we can just reduce Paul to terms of Gurdjieff or The Work has he characterized it. A few of these concepts I feel go beyond G and (as Laura said) Stoicism for that matter. Some of Paul’s work, I feel, that can’t really be described except on Paul’s own terms, and maybe that of other Eastern Church Fathers building on his wisdom.
It's a wonderful summary Whitecoast and really appreciate it. I really enjoyed reading it. It is interesting C's said PaleoChristianity is the only hope for the humanity. I guess paleo means 12,000 years back. C's said they were also part of 2000 years back channeling. I am not sure whom they channeled . Is it Julius caeser or Paul or may be both. It makes sense to have the same concept over the time to fit into the context of that time. Zorastra seems to have got the STO/STS, Good/evil concept 8000 years back.
 
@Stoneboss ,

That would certainly do I think. But 5D is a "contemplation" pause between incarnations for "balance" according to the Cs. One thing I have found missing even with Paul is the concept of reincarnation.



Just threw in the 3D "forces of the light" planets for contemplation before 5D contemplation.
Yes it seems Paul never mentioned anything about reincarnation. But then again, all we have are a few letters that Paul wrote to the "churches", so he may have talked about reincarnation in other letters that were lost or deliberately not included in the new testament, or/and talked about it to the members in person.

As far as "3D forces of the light planets for contemplation before 5D contemplation", I don't quite understand what that means. That there are planets that 3D STO beings could "go to" for contemplation?

Laura said:

Q: (L) Do they have a planet of their own?

A: Have quadrillions of them.
Can't help but to say this: What an incredibly awesome Universe we exist in!
 
I'd hope that it's not necessary, and that it's possible to get to that state while still in 3D. Maybe an NDE would work? It usually leaves the person with enhanced spiritual faculties and outlook. And there's even the physical component in that they seem to be of a different energetic profile, effecting electronics.
Paul did say that not every one will experience physical death:
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We shall not all die, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. (1 Cor 15:49–52)
 
This may be linked, then again? There is a form of rebirth that does not need physical death. Some of us have had such an experience.

In my case, one day of winter 2013 - out of the blue, I felt like I would faint, and lay down on the living room couch. There I went into a serious transe through which I entered a wormhole, just like in a movie, and I twirled into a void, until I reached an empty dark space. Very scared as I was, I could not make anything out and was very determined to return, which I did, through the same wormhole, then I woke up on the couch, very shaken (Understatement). Duration of missing time: 15 to 20 minutes max. The experience definitely changed me in many ways but slowly like program that unravels with time.

Less than a half hour later on the same day (after coming back to my senses), a close friend of mine, who I had been studying Kabbalah with for several years called me out of the blue on that weekday morning. AND HE WAS VERY EXCITED, HE RELATED BACK TO ME THAT HE HAD JUST LIVED THE EXACT SAME TRANSE, WORD FOR WORD, BUT FOR HIM ON THE OTHER SIDE, HE SAID HE MET HIS DEAD MOTHER, HIS DEAD GRAND-PARENTS, then also he returned through the worm hole. Then he said as if he had won the lottery: DANIEL I HAVE JUST BEEN BORN SPIRITUALLY!!!

This experience HAD left me so shaken, that I didn't tell the friend in question that I lived the same thing, at the same time as him. In the meantime I believed that he had either hypnotised me at a distance, or had managed to drug me somehow. I was petrified of the lad until our next meeting a month later where eventually we shared our simultaneous experience face to face and both broke into tears. To this day I have no valid explanation for this happening. But it gives credence to the idea that if you expect to see nothing when you die that is will happen, whereas if you expect to see your ancestors and such, that will happen instead?

But after thinking his through for several years, I personally think that moving into a new reality will be pretty much the same. Except that we will stay on the other side in a better reality, rather than returning to this one through the worm hole.

(It is stated in the transcripts that the Greys managed to move millions of people from Kantek to Earth in the equivalent of a week of our time, I can only imagine this being done in such a way, rather than physically moving the bodies)

It makes me wonder has anyone else lived something similar, and during day time, not while sleeping or NDE, or out-of-body, just a sudden deep transe? The wormhole, same as seen in many films and TV series these recent years). (Note: neither one of us were drug users. This was a legit otherworldly experience) Why the both of us? Why at that time? (My friend's name is Paul, haha...)

It also makes me wonder if we are to imagine a better world in order to reach it?
 
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sid

Jedi Master
Paul's idea on spiritual development fits with Gurdjieff's "octaves" quite neatly. Here is the drawing from "Paul's Necessary Sin":

View attachment 33394

On the left, we still need the "law" because we are still "in the flesh" and would give free reign to our egoistic impulses without the law. The coming of Christ represents the "moral bankruptcy", the deep transformative crisis, the orignial "baptizing". After that, we live a life of faith, but are still subject to the fleshly temptations. We deeply want to do the right thing, but often we don't succeed. Finally, when we have reached the "Spirit" stage, our actions and values are completely aligned, the flesh has lost its power over us.

Gurdjieff talks about spiritual progress as a musical octave: we begin with the notes do-re-mi, which correspond to body, emotion and intellect. This is our starting point, and Gurdjieff calls it "mechanical man", Paul "living in the flesh". Paul's wording seems spot-on, since these three functions (body, emotions, intellect) form our biological make-up (i.e. flesh), including all the biological programming (i.e. mechanical). Here is the octave, though it should be ascending in this case:

View attachment 33395

Now, to ascend spiritually, and to reach the note fa (Gurdjieff) or begin our life as "infants in Christ" (Paul), we need a "shock", which often manifests as a deep spiritual crisis/bankruptcy. On the note fa, according to G., a new state of consciousness shows up: we begin to see ourselves as we truly are, from a new, impartial vantage point. This is rather unpleasant and amplifies the crisis in sort of a feedback loop that, if we bear it and use it, "baptizes" us. Hence we become "of the spirit", although dimly, like children. But we find ourselves in an entirely new world nonetheless. However, we are not fully "in the spirit" yet, or in Gurdjieff's terms, we haven't reached the next octave, there's still way to go. If we take Gurdjieff's thoery seriously, before we finally reach the full spirit stage, another big shock is needed when we go from si to do :shock:
Well put luc. The big shock I personally feel is subsidence or grounding of all fleshy temptations and mechanical vices they inflict on our minds. This may or may not arrive at the point of physical death. True christianity provides us with the laws as an anchor point to help practice restraints until we learn to first overcome with our will and then finally let go of the temptations at sub-conscious level. One reaches a point where only the requirements of the flesh are met, not the temptations and this comes from within. Not by force or laws but via pure faith in the something higher.

The process is accelerated via 3D sufferings which act as waking calls ie first shock but despite being awake we still keep floating between the first and second shock thresholds due to the mental hold of these sufferings. Hence the slow and gradual process of work on the self. “Be the change you wish to see in others” takes a whole new meaning.
 
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