Post-imperialism-A-Template-for-a-New-Social-Order

[Deleted member 11729]

[quote author= May 4, 1996]Q: (L) What do you mean by "replacement of key personnel?" Key personnel according to whose definition?
A: 4th density STS.
Q: (L) Are these key personnel human?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) When you say replacement, do you mean something as simple as someone dying, such as a head of state, and being replaced by another person who comes to power? That would be the simplest scenario that would fit this explanation.
A: Your scenario is not simple.
Q: (L) I mean simple in terms of the machinations...
A: Both.
Q: (L) Would it also be that key personnel could also be replaced as in duplication?
A: Yes. And removing to secret activity realm. Enough wars have taken place to effectively create entire new "underground race" of humans, both from direct capture followed by "reeducation," and spawning activity using these persons and others.
Q: (L) What do you mean by spawning activitY?
A: Those captured have reproduced offspring, these never having seen your world.
Q: (L) Are you saying... (TK) They have given birth and these children have never seen our world... (L) How can an entire race of people, or groups of people, live under the surface of this planet, without the whole 6 billion of the rest of us on top, or at least a large number, realizing that there is anything going on? This is so wild an idea...
A: No. How much space exists underground, as opposed to that on the surface?
Q: (L) A lot, I suppose. You aren't saying that the earth is hollow, are you?
A: No, not exactly.
Q: (L) Well, how deep is the deepest of these underground cities?
A: 3,108 miles.
Q: (L) That's pretty deep! But wouldn't it be too hot at that depth?
A: No. Temperature averages 68 degrees F.
Q: (TK) That's pretty comfortable! (L) How do they have light?
A: Magnetic resonance.
Q: (L) Well, aren't they subject to being crushed by earthquakes?
A: No, earthquakes are not felt deep underground!!
Q: (L) Does any of this underground civilization activity have any relation to this massive underground base the Russians are building?
A: No.
Q: (TK) Is any of this under the ocean?
A: Yes.
Q: (TK) Well, we'll never explore all of what is under the ocean. (L) It just staggers the mind to think about it. What do they want these people for?
A: To replace you.
Q: (TK) And why? Because they can control them better. Right?
A: Completely.
Q: (L) Do these people being bred and raised in these underground cities have souls?
A: Yes, most.
Q: (TK) Are they just like us only raised differently?
A: More complicated than that.
Q: (L) How long have they been doing this?
A: 14,000 years, approximately.[/quote]
[/quote]

wow that's fascinating .... I am still struggling to take things like this "seriously" ... it is to far beyond our programed capabilities ... but yes it is like Tolkien already envisioned the new world in his Lord of the Rings and other "stories" that are maybe just a chronicle of human "forgotten" reality ...

But what took my attention in this quotation from transcript from 1996, is that yesterday I had a dream that actually there are already "another" humans on earth coming out from some experimental facilities at war zones on Middle East, Africa, and poverty places on East in general ... so that is why most of the places reserved for western tourist and travelers are actually fenced and hidden form public eye ... and some of that new humans are quite bizarre mixture of sea life and humans ... the dream was so real, and very frightening actually ...

 

[Hindsight Man]

wow that's fascinating .... I am still struggling to take things like this "seriously" ... it is to far beyond our programed capabilities ... but yes it is like Tolkien already envisioned the new world in his Lord of the Rings and other "stories" that are maybe just a chronicle of human "forgotten" reality ...

But what took my attention in this quotation from transcript from 1996, is that yesterday I had a dream that actually there are already "another" humans on earth coming out from some experimental facilities at war zones on Middle East, Africa, and poverty places on East in general ... so that is why most of the places reserved for western tourist and travelers are actually fenced and hidden form public eye ... and some of that new humans are quite bizarre mixture of sea life and humans ... the dream was so real, and very frightening actually ...

That reminds me of a sott show from way back where high strangeness was being discussed and Laura threw in a remark (if memory serves) about historical records of armored fishmen coming from the sea

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Solarmind]wow that's fascinating .... I am still struggling to take things like this "seriously" ... it is to far beyond our programed capabilities[/quote]

Maybe it looks like the pictures below? I tried to find art that could resemble it. All are pics that resemble from the inside a planet that is 'hollow' According to the C's their tech makes us looks like Neanderthal in comparison. Hence the High Tech. I suppose that for light they created something of an artificial sun (small version) And if you really wanted to use all the space maybe harnessing gravity and able to direct it could help?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-D8KF57Vu2co/UTUFUys-6PI/AAAAAAAANbM/oNE43oNIbPM/s1600/sparth-concept-art.jpg

http://www.igorstshirts.com/blog/conceptships/2012/sparth_halo/sparth_01.jpg

http://img.gawkerassets.com/post/9/2012/12/john_manyspires_01.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/69O5u.png

 

[Shared Joy]

What would you do with it if you were really good at hunting because you had to be and it only took a few hours of the day to bring home the bacon? Probably rest a bit or scout for the next day's advantage. Then tell tales around the campfire before bed. :)

I remember reading some obscure book where the Aborigines used all of that extra time for "dreamtime." The dreamtime seemed to define the core of their being and purpose of their lives. It seems to be a shamanic religion that emphasizes expanding ones awareness beyond the body to different worlds and communing with nature spirits to gain knowledge about life. Some of the accounts were reminiscent of Castaneda's stories. Wikipedia has a summary here _https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreaming_(spirituality)

.......
The main disadvantage to the nomadic life, as I see it, is even though it allows you to tune into nature and experience a much richer connection with yourself and others, it doesn't allow for much in the way of high culture. There isn't much in the way of research in to new technologies or techniques to broaden your horizons or find better ways of doing things. This requires institutions which specialize in various things. I think a lot of these shamans could benefit from a more intellectual environment that is not hostile to them; the marriage of science and mysticism. These shamanic cultures didn't seem to advance past a certain point; if someone shows up with tanks and bombs, they're basically finished. They seem to have stagnated and never mastered the mind power to repulse the invaders through their psychic abilities. Perhaps that isn't even possible at this level. I think choosing between primitivism and technologism is too black and white and simplistic. There must be a third way, which is superior because it synthesizes the best elements of both. The Cassiopaeans referred to it as "Technospirituality." It's kind of the same thing we've been dealing with on this forum since its inception, when contemplating which is better, religion or science? The answer, of course, is both. Without the Yin and the Yang together, things tend to fall apart.

Hi Buddy, Neil and All,

the book of Marlo Morgan "Mutant Message down under" was cited a few times. I think it's a good read for those who think that in a desert or a deserted place life cannot be fulfilling.

The author, who was a MD in USA went to Australia and took at heart the native population's poor living situation and effectively tried to help them. One day she received an invitation from a nomad tribe. She joined the for a walkabout in the nowhere when she had learned many astonishing lessons and learned to appreciate the spiritual and practical richness of these so called primitive people.
Here's a quote about dreamtime, spinning, water:

After our meal, we gathered around as we did each evening. Spirit Woman explained her
talent to me. Every human being is unique, and each of us is given certain characteristics
that are exceptionally strong and can become a talent in life. Her contribution to the society
was that of Dream Catcher. Everyone dreams, I was told. Not everyone cares to remember
their dreams or learn the information from them, but everyone does dream. “Dreams are the
shadow of reality,” she said. Everything that exists, that happens here, is also available in the
dream world. All answers are there. These special webs are helpful in a ceremony of song
and dance to aid in asking the universe for dream guidance. Spirit Woman then assists the
dreamer to understand the message.

I understood them to say that the word dreaming means levels of awareness. There is
ancestor dreaming when thought created the world; there is out-of-body dreaming such as
deep meditation, there is sleep dreaming, and so on.

The tribe uses the dream catchers to ask for guidance in any situation. If they want help in
understanding a relationship, a health question, or the purpose behind some experience,
they believe the answer can be brought to light in a dream. Mutants know only one way to
enter the dream state and that is sleep, but the Real People are aware of dream
consciousness while awake. Without the use of mind-controlling drugs, merely using breath
techniques and concentration, they perform consciously while in the dream world.
The instructions I received were to dance with the dream catcher. Whirling is especially
successful. You plant the question firmly in your mind and ask it over and over as you move
about. The most effective spin, and the Aboriginal explanation for it, is an exercise that
increases energy vortexes in seven key centers of the body: merely standing with my arms
outstretched and spinning always to the right.

Soon dizzy, I sat down and reflected how my life had changed. Out here where there was not
even one person per square kilometer, in an area more than three times the size of Texas, I
was performing a whirling dervish, kicking up the sand and causing the air that contacted my
dream catcher to ripple endlessly across the open expanse.
The tribal people do not dream at night unless they call in a dream. Sleep for them is a time
for important rest and recovery of the body. It is not meant to be a time of splitting energy
between projects. They believe the reason Mutants dream at night is because in our society
we are not allowed to dream during the day, and especially to dream with one’s eyes open is
totally misunderstood.
Finally it was time to sleep. I smoothed out the sand and used my arm as a pillow. I was
handed a small container of water and told to drink one-half of it now and the remainder
upon awakening. That would help me remember the dream in detail. The question that was
most pressing on my mind was the question I asked. What am I to do, after this journey is
concluded, with the information I am being given?
In the morning Spirit Woman, speaking through Ooota, asked me to recall my dream. I
thought it would be impossible for her to help interpret the meaning because it did not
contain anything that seemed related to Australia, but I told her about it anyway. She asked
me mostly about how I felt, what emotion was attached to the objects and things that
happened in my dream. It was remarkable how she could draw insight from me, when the
civilized lifestyle I had dreamed of was totally foreign to her.

........

I wondered if any of the others who had danced with the dream catcher would share their
dreams. Before I could ask the question, Ooota read my mind and said, “Yes, Tool Maker
wishes to speak.” Tool Maker was an elderly man who specialized in making not only tools, but paintbrushes, cooking gear, and just about everything.

His question had been about muscle aches. His dream had been about a turtle that crawled out of the billabong to discover he had lost legs on one side of his body and was lopsided. After Spirit Woman
talked him through the dream, like she had done with me, he came to the conclusion it was
time for him to teach someone else his trade. He once had loved the responsibility of being a
master craftsman, but now there was less true enjoyment and more self-inflicted pressure,
so he was signaled a need for change. He had become one-sided, no longer balanced in
work and play.
I saw him teaching others in the days that followed, and when I asked about his aches and
pains, his withered face increased in deep lines, as smiling he said, “When thinking became
flexible, joints became flexible. No pain, no more.”

Life in religion for them:

We journey a straight path in Oneness. Mutants
have many beliefs; they say your way is different from my way, your savior is not my savior,
your forever is not my forever. But the truth is, all life is one life. There is only one game in
progress. There is one race, many different shades. Mutants argue the name of God, what
building, what day, what ritual. Did He come to Earth? What do his stories mean? Truth is
truth. If you hurt someone, you hurt self. If you help someone, you help self. Blood and bone
is in all people. It’s the heart and intent that is different. Mutants think about this one hundred
years only, of self and separateness. Real people think about forever. It is all one, our
ancestors, our unborn grandchildren, all of life everywhere.”
After the game was over, one of the men asked me if it was true some people live their entire
lives and never know what their God-given talents are? I had to admit I had patients who
were very depressed, who felt life had passed them by, but others had made a contribution.
Yes, I had to admit, many Mutants did not think they were given any talent, and they did not
think about the purpose of life until they were dying. Big tears came into his eyes as he
shook his head, showing how difficult it was to believe such a thing could happen.
“Why can’t Mutants see, if my song makes one person happy, it is a good job? You help one
person, good job. Can only help one at a time anyway.”
I asked if they had ever heard the name Jesus. “Certainly,” I was told. “The missionaries
taught: Jesus is the Son of God. Our eldest brother. Divine Oneness in human form. He
receives the greatest veneration. Oneness came to the earth many years ago to tell the
Mutants how to live, what they had forgotten. Jesus did not come to the Real People tribe.
He certainly could have, we were right here, but it wasn’t our message. It didn’t apply to us
because we have not forgotten. We were already living His Truth. To us,” they continued,
“Oneness is not a thing. Mutants seem addicted to form. They can’t accept anything invisible
and without a shape. God, Jesus, Oneness for us is not an essence that surrounds things or
is present inside of things—it is everything!”

Life and living according to the tribe is in movement, advancement, and change. They spoke
about alive and nonalive time. People are nonliving when angry, depressed, feeling sorry for
themselves, or filled with fear. Breathing doesn’t determine being alive. It just tells others
which body is ready for burial or not! Not all breathing people are in a state of aliveness. It’s
okay to try out negative emotions and see how they feel, but it certainly isn’t a place one
would wisely want to stay. When the soul is in human form you get to play—to see how it
feels to be happy or sad, jealous or grateful, and so on. But you are supposed to learn from
the experience and ultimately figure out which feels painful and which feels great.

Next we talked about games and sports. I told them that in the United States we are very
interested in sporting events, that in fact we pay ballplayers much more than we pay
schoolteachers. I told them I could demonstrate a game and suggested we all make a line
and run as fast as we could. The one who runs the fastest will become the winner. The
people looked at me intently with their beautiful big dark eyes, then they looked at each
other. Finally someone said, “But if one person wins, everyone else must lose. Is that fun?
Games are for fun. Why would you submit anyone to such an experience and then try to
convince him he was in truth a winner? That custom is difficult to understand. Does it work
for your people?” I just smiled and shook my head “no.”

There was a dead tree nearby, so I asked for assistance, and we constructed a teeter-totter
by placing a long limb over a tall rock. It was great fun, and even the oldest members of the
group took a turn moving up and down. They pointed out to me there are some things you
just can’t do alone, and using this toy was one of them! Seventy-, eighty-, ninety-year-old
people had released the child within and had fun playing games not designed for winners
and losers, but for everyone’s enjoyment.

another dramatic moment was when she had to take the lead of the group:

That morning the daily rituals were special. I was placed in the center position of our
semicircle facing east. Ooota told me to acknowledge Divine Oneness in my own way and
send out my prayer for the goodness of the day. At the conclusion of the ceremony, while we
prepared to walk, I was told it was my turn to lead. I was to walk in front and lead the tribe.
“But I can’t,” I said. “I don’t know where we are going or how to find anything. I really
appreciate the offer, but I just can’t lead.”

“You should,” I heard. “It is time. In order to know your home, the earth, all its levels of life,
and your relationship to everything seen and unseen, you must lead. It is fine to walk for a
while as the last one in any group, and it is acceptable to spend time mingling in the middle,
but ultimately everyone must at some time lead. You have no way of understanding
leadership roles until you assume that responsibility. Everyone must experience all of these
roles at some time, without exception, sooner or later, if not in this lifetime, sometime! The
only way to pass any test is to take the test. All tests on every level are always repeated one
way or another until you pass.”

and so they walked for almost three days without food and water, but the whole tribe was commited to teach her the lesson, so they were literally ready to die if she failed:

Cool water lay in wet pool mirages before my eyes, but when I arrived at the place in the
sand, it was always only sand. The second day passed without food, water, or help. That
night I was too exhausted, ill, and discouraged to use even the pillow of hide; I think I passed
out instead of going to sleep. On the third morning I went to every individual in the group, and
on my knees I begged as loudly as my dying body would permit, “Please help me. Please
save us.” It was very difficult to speak because I had awakened with my tongue so dry it was
stuck fast to the inside of my cheek.

They listened and looked at me intently but only stood there smiling. I had the impression
they were thinking, “We are hungry and thirsty too, but this is your experience, so we support
you totally in what you must learn.” No one offered any help.

We walked and walked. The air was still, the world totally inhospitable. It seemed to
represent defiance against my intrusion. There was no help, no way out. My body was numb
from the heat and had become unresponsive. I was dying. These were the signs of fatal
dehydration. This was it. I was dying.

.................

I remembered all my jobs, schooling, degrees, education,
then realized here I was dying in the Australian desert. What was it all about? Had I
accomplished what my life was intended for? “Dear God,” I said to myself. “Help me
understand what is happening.”

Instantly the answer came to me.

I had traveled over ten thousand miles from my American hometown, but I had not budged
one inch in my thinking. I came from a left-brain world. I was raised on logic, judgment,
reading, writing, math, cause and effect; here, I was in a rightbrain reality, with people who
used none of my so-called important educational concepts and civilized necessities. They
were masters of the right brain, using creativity, imagination, intuition, and spiritual concepts.
They didn’t find it necessary to verbalize their communications; it was done through thought,
prayer, meditation, whatever you might call it. I had begged and pleaded for help vocally.
How ignorant I must have appeared to them. Any Real Person would have asked silently,
mind to mind, heart to heart, individual to the universal consciousness that links all life
together. I had up until that moment considered myself different, separate, apart from the
Real People. They kept saying we are all One, and they live in nature as One, but until then I
had been the observer. I had been keeping myself apart. I had to become One with them,
with the universe, and communicate as the Real People did. So I did. Mentally I said “Thank
you” to the source of this revelation, and in my mind I cried out, “Help me. Please, help me.” I
used the words I heard the tribe say each morning, “If it is in my highest good and the
highest good for all of life everywhere, let me learn.”

The thought came into my mind. “Put the rock in your mouth.” I looked around. There were
no rocks. We were walking on fine hour-glass sand. It came again. “Put the rock in your
mouth.” Then I remembered the rock I had chosen and still held in the cleavage of my chest.
It had been there for months. I had forgotten it. I took it out and put it in my mouth, wallowed
it around, and miraculously, moisture began to form. I could feel the ability to swallow being
restored. There was hope. Perhaps I was not meant to die today.
“Thank you, Thank you, Thank you,” I said in silence. I would have cried, but my body did not
have enough moisture left for tears. So I continued mentally asking for help: “I can learn. I
will do whatever is needed. Just help me find water. I don’t know what to do, what to look for,
where to walk.”
The thought came to me: “Be water. Be water. When you can be water, you will find water.” I
didn’t know what it meant. It didn’t make sense. Be water! That isn’t possible. But again I
concentrated on forgetting my left-brain society programing. I shut out logic; I shut out
reason.
I opened myself up to intuition, and closing my eyes, I began being water. As I
walked, I used all my senses. I could smell water, taste it, feel it, hear it, see it. I was cold,
blue, clear, muddy, still, rippling, ice, melting, vapor, steam, rain, snow, wet, nourishing,
splashing, expanding, unlimited. I was every possible image of water that came to mind.

We walked across a flat plain, level as far as the eye could see. There was only one small
tawny mound in sight, a sand dune about six feet high with a rock ledge on top. It appeared
misplaced in the bleak landscape. I walked up the side of it, my eyes half-closed in the
blazing light, almost in a mental trance, and sat on the rock. I looked down, and there in front
of me, all of my supportive, unconditionally-loving friends had stopped and were looking up
with grins that spread across their faces from ear to ear. I faintly returned the smile. Then I
stretched back my left hand to steady myself and felt something wet. My head jerked around.
There behind me, in the continuation of the rock ledge I was perched on, was a rock pool
about ten feet in diameter and about eighteen inches deep, filled with beautiful, crystal clear
water from yesterday’s taunting rain cloud.

I truly believe I was closer to our Creator with that first sip of tepid water than with any taste
of communion I have ever received in a church.

Learning sometimes is fun, sometimes is hardship. It depends very much on the teacher-student relationship and the context. But, usually there is an unusual context which breaks apart an existing set of conditions, beliefs, that is continuity.

Somebody has to be aware to lead the re-crystallization on correct foundation.

Anyway, I don't intend to lengthen this post too much. Just read the book, it worth the effort.

Thank you for your attention and time to read all these
Joy

 

[kalibex]

Hi Buddy, Neil and All,

the book of Marlo Morgan "Mutant Message down under" was cited a few times. I think it's a good read for those who think that in a desert or a deserted place life cannot be fulfilling.

The author, who was a MD in USA went to Australia and took at heart the native population's poor living situation and effectively tried to help them. One day she received an invitation from a nomad tribe. She joined the for a walkabout in the nowhere when she had learned many astonishing lessons and learned to appreciate the spiritual and practical richness of these so called primitive people.

I would advise caution in recommending Morgan's book - the book has been a source of much controversy, mainly for numerous alleged inaccuracies about Aboriginal culture. Supposedly some native Australians themselves confronted Morgan regarding it:

1996 a group of Aboriginal elders, seriously disturbed by the book’s implications, received a grant to travel to the States and confront Marlo Morgan about her book and to try to prevent a Hollywoodisation of it.

She admitted publicly that she had faked it but this received little publicity in the USA. The Aboriginal people are very angry that this book continues to be promoted and sold widely because it gives a very false picture of their traditional culture and of their current political and social status.

Source: http://www.creativespirits.info/resources/books/fiction-novels/marlo-morgan-mutant-message-down-under-critique-by-chris-sitka#ixzz43SPdXrIi

 

[luc]

Fascinating discussion, thanks Pierre for this great article and everyone for your very interesting posts!

A few thoughts:

The idea was that journalists would be lauded for their truth telling and held to account for lies or manipulation. I don't see any censorship there.

Why not a censor, but the opposite of what we're conditioned to. Years ago I found myself thinking about all this and saying to myself that there *should* be a national censor...but this one would make sure lies and manipulation didn't get out in the first place. Not that I'd suggest such a thing for risk of connotation-driven, jaw-dropping shock from merely using the word "censor." :D

Hear ya! I think one reason why some people seem confused about the society outlined in the article is that it's an illusion to think you can live "without authority", or even with "minimal authority", and call it "freedom". Wrong! I think a strong authority is essential - we are just not used to the concept of a strong, benevolent authority as opposed to psychopaths ruling the world. We do have Putin though as an inspiration - and look how strong he is! He heavily influences all spheres of life in Russia - society, economy, media etc. - and he needs to be strong in order to counter the enormous power of the corporate psychopaths! Naturally, the West screams "authoritarian", "freedom of the press" etc., but of course, would Putin not exert such power and authority, big business and the psychos would plunder and rape Russia in a heartbeat.

And I think this is a reflection of the principle Gurdjieff talked about, that our freedom is an illusion - there is always an authority, we can only choose to align ourselves with this or that influence, but we cannot be free of authority. In fact, if we proclaim that we "don't want any authority", we are duped by STS and align ourselves with the "dark side", osit.

As I understand it, an STO-oriented society should keep in mind some principles of the Work in order to counter the psychopaths aka. "the dark side"/"the influence of the moon". Or in more modern parlance, as Simon hints at in his book "Character Disturbance", such a society should have as a primary goal the education of its members to help them develop a real character, or as Dabrowski calls it, bocome a "personality".

Here are some excerpts from ISOTM:

"The influence of the moon upon everything living manifests itself in all that happens on the earth. The moon is the chief, or rather, the nearest, the immediate, motive force of all that takes place in organic life on the earth. All movements, actions, and manifestations of people, animals, and plants depend upon the moon and are controlled by the moon. The sensitive film of organic life which covers the earthly globe is entirely dependent upon the influence of the huge electromagnet that is sucking out its vitality. Man, like every other living being, cannot, in the ordinary conditions of life, tear himself free from the moon. All his movements and consequently all his actions are controlled by the moon. If he kills another man, the moon does it; if he sacrifices himself for others, the moon does that also. All evil deeds, all crimes, all self-sacrificing actions, all heroic exploits, as well as all the actions of ordinary everyday life, are controlled by the moon.

"The liberation which comes with the growth of mental powers and faculties is liberation from the moon. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in ourselves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon.

He defines real freedom as:

Freedom is first of all freedom from identification.

"It very often happens that at the beginning of the work the members of a group do not like some or other of the rules. And they even ask: Can we not work without rules? Rules seem to them to be an unnecessary constraint on their freedom or a tiresome formality, and to be reminded about rules seems to them to be ill will or dissatisfaction on the part of the teacher.

"In reality rules are the chief and the first help that they get from the work. It stands to reason that rules do not pursue the object of affording them amusement or satisfaction or of making things more easy for them. Rules pursue a definite aim: to make them behave as they would behave 'if they were,' that is, if they remembered themselves and realized how they ought to behave with regard to people outside the work, to people in the work, and to the teacher. If they remembered themselves and realized this, rules would not be necessary for them. But they are not able to remember themselves and understand this at the beginning of work, so that rules are indispensable, although rules can never be either easy, pleasant, or comfortable. On the contrary, they ought to be difficult, unpleasant, and uncomfortable; otherwise they would not answer their purpose. Rules are the alarm clocks which wake the sleeping man. But the man, opening his eyes for a second, is indignant with the alarm clock and asks: Can one not awaken without alarm clocks?

Speaking in general there is every reason to think and to assert that humanity is at a standstill and from a standstill there is a straight path to downfall and degeneration. A standstill means that a process has become balanced. The appearance of any one quality immediately evokes the appearance of another quality opposed to it. The growth of knowledge in one domain evokes the growth of ignorance in another; refinement on the one hand evokes vulgarity on the other; freedom in one connection evokes slavery in another; the disappearance of some superstitions evokes the appearance and the growth of others; and so on.

As for community points, I think this could be seen as a form of benevolent authority, guiding a community to a more STO-oriented approach, keeping in mind as well that authoritarian followers and OPs still exist. However, I guess the devil is in the details.

For example, in my experience with clubs and voluntary work, I witnessed great people who really strive to be a positive force, to get some good things going to bring people together, to use their time to do something for others etc. However, some also engage in those things for the wrong reasons, like gaining power over others, benefits and so on. Then there are those who do a lot of things, but are kind of "bulldozers" who don't really teach others, but actually block the progress of others. I think it's not always easy to distinguish between STO and STS motivations. So I think a community points system should be set up in a way that people benefit from it who show a primarily selfless motivation (which would make the community points unnecessary, because such people would do it anyway, benefit or not). In other words, people should be rewarded for actions that they do without expecting any reward, if that makes sense. And of course, such a system should go hand in hand with other mechanisms to monitor people's behaviors, attitudes, motivations etc., so that pathologicals and STS-oriented people can't corrupt the system. How this would look like in practical terms is difficult to say though.

Just some thoughts - thanks again everyone.

 

[kalibex]

...people should be rewarded for actions that they do without expecting any reward, if that makes sense.

Sure...but, lacking mind readers... as you pointed out, there's no practical way to do so currently. But since it is said that pathologicals can't hide their true colors forever, it shouldn't matter as once someone loses enough points to get a 'bad rep', then everyone would know. As long as people do pro-social things, they get points, the community benefits, and stable, non-traumatizing environments should make it much easier for people to grow. It's a lot easier to start helping others in a natural 'this makes sense' way when you are stable. Wasn't it implied that all beings seem to eventually (eventuuuallllyy) come to see that STO is basically simple common sense?

Perhaps the sign of development of STO-ness would be either consistently high or 'stable' (no backsliding) point scores. That or people eventually will gain the ability to sense others' interior milieu, perhaps gradually, over time - will gain confidence in using it, 'calibrate' it so to speak, in mixed company. Should that ever happen, I suspect by the time people can go out and 'scan' people, they'll already be in tighter communities with 'matching' polarities anyway.

Time will tell!

 

[kalibex]

...some of that new humans are quite bizarre mixture of sea life and humans ... the dream was so real, and very frightening actually ...

Hmm...

_http://cryptozoologynews.com/three-amphibious-humanoids-spotted-in-england/_

The Judokan teacher on Wednesday told Cryptozoology News that he was walking his way home along the seafront pavement in Brighton at 10:30 p.m. when the event took purportedly took place.

“I stopped to light a cigarette and heard noises towards the sea, other than the waves,” the man, who provided a full name but requested anonymity, said about last Saturday’s encounter. “The sounds were very strange, a kind of wheezing oge,oge noise.”

The eyewitness reports that, concerned about someone choking, he went and took a look over the railing.

“I then shouthed ‘hello!’ and that’s when I saw three small figures stand up from what I guess was a prone position , all three stared for a few second , then lept back down and turn and crawled into the sea,” he recalls about the incident.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

...some of that new humans are quite bizarre mixture of sea life and humans ... the dream was so real, and very frightening actually ...

Hmm...

_http://cryptozoologynews.com/three-amphibious-humanoids-spotted-in-england/_

The Judokan teacher on Wednesday told Cryptozoology News that he was walking his way home along the seafront pavement in Brighton at 10:30 p.m. when the event took purportedly took place.

“I stopped to light a cigarette and heard noises towards the sea, other than the waves,” the man, who provided a full name but requested anonymity, said about last Saturday’s encounter. “The sounds were very strange, a kind of wheezing oge,oge noise.”

The eyewitness reports that, concerned about someone choking, he went and took a look over the railing.

“I then shouthed ‘hello!’ and that’s when I saw three small figures stand up from what I guess was a prone position , all three stared for a few second , then lept back down and turn and crawled into the sea,” he recalls about the incident.

thank you for the link .. uhmmm interesting .... and also even this is not like sea creatures, but somehow on some other level for me this connecting too ... like there must be something in the air about this humanoid sea connection on some gross and decadent level ...
_http://www.telegraph.co.uk/theatre/actors/mark-rylance-and-emma-thompson-pose-nude-with-fish-for-marine-pr/

 

[Deleted member 11729]

[quote author= Solarmind]wow that's fascinating .... I am still struggling to take things like this "seriously" ... it is to far beyond our programed capabilities

Maybe it looks like the pictures below? I tried to find art that could resemble it. All are pics that resemble from the inside a planet that is 'hollow' According to the C's their tech makes us looks like Neanderthal in comparison. Hence the High Tech. I suppose that for light they created something of an artificial sun (small version) And if you really wanted to use all the space maybe harnessing gravity and able to direct it could help?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-D8KF57Vu2co/UTUFUys-6PI/AAAAAAAANbM/oNE43oNIbPM/s1600/sparth-concept-art.jpg

http://www.igorstshirts.com/blog/conceptships/2012/sparth_halo/sparth_01.jpg

http://img.gawkerassets.com/post/9/2012/12/john_manyspires_01.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/69O5u.png
[/quote]

thank you for the links bjorn ... for me this underground could be more like this real Son Doong cave. When I first sow the photos from there I just thought o wow, probably there must be some human life going on there ...

_http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2014/09/the-lost-forest-world-of-the-worlds-largest-cave/

" The discovery of Son Doong also poses another question. What other lost places remain out there for us to find? It is exciting to think that right here on our own planet there may be whole new vast, alien realms, even new ecosystems, hidden away from us, waiting to be discovered. Or perhaps maybe they will never be discovered, and will remain untouched by human hands as they have for millions of years and will for millions more. Whatever the case may be, even as the modern world seems to become ever smaller, it appears that there are still surprises locked away within this planet of ours."

 

[kalibex]

thank you for the link .. uhmmm interesting .... and also even this is not like sea creatures, but somehow on some other level for me this connecting too ... like there must be something in the air about this humanoid sea connection on some gross and decadent level ...
_http://www.telegraph.co.uk/theatre/actors/mark-rylance-and-emma-thompson-pose-nude-with-fish-for-marine-pr/

There's more:

"Berossus, the Babylonian priest writing in 3rd century BCE Athens, claimed that man’s ancestry and origin can be traced to “Oannes,” an amphibious creature that came out of the Persian Gulf to teach the arts of civilisation to man. “Berossus called them ‘annedoti’ which translate as the ‘repulsive ones’ in Greek. He also refers to them as ‘musarus,’ an abomination”

--R.A Boulay

&

"If the tradition had been invented, a more normal attitude would have been to glorify these creatures as splendid gods or heroes, yet the fact that they chose to describe their ancestors this way argues for the authenticity of the account.”

--ibid

 

[Anamarija]

This article means to me so much. So, first of all I like to thank you Pierre, Joe and the rest of the crew, even the Lobaczewski because there is great influence from his "Political Ponerology" for making this little wonder.
I have read this article some time ago and from that moment I feel great hope, even more than usual. This is excellent template and I don't see reason why this can't go trough, maybe, some day in the future. I like to ask you some questions, practical one:

1. What do you think that will happend with disease? Because the way I see that society, there is no such stressfull environment, no poverty, no homelessness, no pollution and there is no government that deliberately poison her people.

2. About working hours? Is there the usual working time (even is shorter version) from 8 a.m. to 1 p.m. or do you think that this could be flexible? I'm asking because some people are morning person, some are night birds;).

3. From which material houses will be build?

4.

Q: Is school compulsory?

Yes. It is compulsory from 9 to 12. It provides the basic writing, reading and calculus skills. Then from 12 to 18, youngsters test what they like AND are good at. It occurs mostly through internship and practice. Of course any individual is free to study before of after compulsory ages. The mentor/ apprentice relationship is privileged.

Nothing to ask about this, I just like to express child in me - I would really like to be part of this kind of society, school, teaching, learning, exploring and free/natural searching in what we are good at. YES!

5.

Q: Can people own guns?

A: Citizens who have earned enough community points are allowed to own guns.

Maybe I have to much idealize picture of this but I cannot find any reason for some one to own a gun?

6.

Q: Is there death sentence?

A: No, but an inmate can decide to be killed rather than being detained longer.

I presume that the hardest work in NSO could be working with psychopats, criminals and people don't like to work. Wetiko is fast spread ed disease, and it could easily transfer from enclavs, don't you think? How can be helped to those who works in that enclavs?

7. Sexuality issue, mucho mucho problemos with this one. From which age you think that children should learn about this?


And last one:

Q: What are the rules concerning marriage and procreation?

A: Procreation occurs at a physical level while marriage should be at a soul level. Thus anyone can marry anyone and divorce is legal. However only heterosexual married couples can adopt children and raise them. Before having children, heterosexual married couples have to attend parenting classes and go through a 5 year probation period as a general rule.

Even there was plenty of explanation in this thread about why author of text thinks that it wrong to give homosexual partners possibility to adopt children, I think that this issue is more complex and will be more complex in this kind of society. In our world many people have many desires and needs that they don't try to realize because of lot of programs, prejudice or just because they afraid how others will react on that. In new postimperialism society I think that people will be from the start more open to others, to they needs and orientation. That could lead for some orientation or just expressing behavior what others could find offensive. For example, if someone is bisexual, but also he has desire to live with woman and man, is there possibility for them to adopt or just made a child together?

This society can provide (IMO) excellent environment for real evolution of people, but the most effective studying of human choice of partner, sexual orientation and needs could only be study in the right way if you let people to be free to explore and express what they feel. We cannot make good choices about rules regarding this issues because we don't poses valid study about this subject (IMO).

Just one problem I see in this picture of new society that there is 'picture' that everyone should accomplish. You gonna get the points ;), and if you don't come in the 'picture' (if you're gay and cannot adopt child and have a happy family like others) you will not have the same possibilities like heterosexual people. Because you will feel like a second class citizen you may become depressed, anxious and lose will to earn your points and be good citizen.

 

[Chad]

4.

Q: Is school compulsory?

Yes. It is compulsory from 9 to 12. It provides the basic writing, reading and calculus skills. Then from 12 to 18, youngsters test what they like AND are good at. It occurs mostly through internship and practice. Of course any individual is free to study before of after compulsory ages. The mentor/ apprentice relationship is privileged.

Nothing to ask about this, I just like to express child in me - I would really like to be part of this kind of society, school, teaching, learning, exploring and free/natural searching in what we are good at. YES!

It seems for many grown ups who were curious and naturally intelligent children, they'd agree with the above too. I had a conversation about it just the other day actually; my friend never read a book about geography and hated the teacher trying to coerce him into doing so, yet growing up in the Romanian countryside he is a natural at map reading, understanding the landscape, basic survival and so on.

John Taylor Gatto, former New York State Teacher of the Year and proponent for education reform, told a fascinating little story: a girl of no more than 12 years old, maybe younger, who i think came from a difficult home and was therefore fairly uninterested in even attending classes, but was extremely enthusiastic about swimming.

He told her that he wouldn't declare her absent if she would do the following: Go to every swimming pool in the city; swim in them; map the distances, routes and times to get to them; test the ph of the water. All of which the girl apparently did with glee. Even if this child didn't make Olympic swimmer, she learnt how to learn alongside something she loves, which made it next to effortless.

I think i've learned a lot from hearing his talks and interviews about the damaging effects on forced learning, the institution of schooling is a whole other corruption, imo, and i certainly feel i've experienced it in my own life. I asked an acquaintance who had studied history at university what was her most recent related book she had read, having been out of school for a few years, her response was that she no longer reads history books. And though it's anecdotal, i think there's something to it.

Being forced to learn anything unrelated to your interests and at a speed set by a standards committee isn't normal imo. Nevermind the environment itself which isn't conducive to such energetic and curious young children.

In Germany i understand there are schools where the children (see wiki below) spend much of the summer and even early winter months in the woodland and learn there. My point is that there are already a few examples of other options and it is insane that we continue damaging children in the way we do, osit.

A forest kindergarten is a type of preschool education for children between the ages of three and six that is held almost exclusively outdoors. Whatever the weather, children are encouraged to play, explore and learn in a forest or natural environment. The adult supervision is meant to assist rather than lead. It is also known as Waldkindergarten (in German), outdoor nursery, nature kindergarten, or nature preschool.

Roland Gorges [15 - Prof. Roland Gorges M.A.] found that children who had been to a forest kindergarten were above average, compared by teachers to those who had not, in all areas of skill tested. In order of advantage, these were:

Improved skills
Knowledge and skills in specific subjects.
Reading
Mathematics
Constructive contributions to learning
Asking questions and interest in learning
Motivation
Sports
Music
Art and creativity
Positive social behaviour
Religion
Concentration
Handling writing and painting equipment

 

[SeekinTruth]

I'd have to agree that John Taylor Gatto's work is excellent. He knows from first-hand experience being teacher just how screwed up modern schooling really is.

 

[Psalehesost]

I'm very skeptical of the idea of having public schooling at all in a sensibly organized society, and this ties very much into what I've learned from John Taylor Gatto's works. The book Weapons of Mass Instruction provides the most condensed coverage of what he arrived at later on. I'll summarize some things.

However, I note in advance that this is a subject I tend to have very strong views on. (Given my own experience of public school - the Swedish version, but the basic principles are the same across most of the world - in combination with the knowledge I've gathered later on about what public schooling is essentially about, I'd need some substantial fact-based input to come to any other conclusion than a general, and rather strong, rejection of public schooling.)

As an institution, public schooling brings children away from family and local community life, robbing them of life experience, and so retarding psychological maturation. (Before public schooling, people often reached responsible age, and the corresponding degree of psychological maturity, around age 7. Nowadays, this happens a decade later, and the entire concept of 'adolescence' is an invention which describes this artificial extension of childhood, which does not naturally exist. Gatto makes the case that this difference in how people develop and engage life is clear from the historical record.) This separation of children from their natural life environment also weakens the fabric of family and local community life.

John Gatto describes how the rate of literacy in the sourthern states of the US fell with the introduction of public schooling. Education by family and local community did much better at providing writing and other basic skills, and what was learned typically went beyond what would nowadays be considered basic. E.g., a popular book in rhetoric meant for use in teaching children aged 9 covered things nowadays corresponding to University-level education.

If people learn through involvement of family and local community, they are likely to be all done with learning the more basic things by age 9, rather than needing to go through public schooling at that age to begin learning it. The idea of beginning to learn writing by age 9 only makes sense from the perspective of the dumbed-down present.

(I'll add that, if there are unfortunate children without access to capable parents and/or teaching by the local community, then maybe some kind of school may make sense to provide for them as a substitute solution. But if the real deal is available, why replace it with an artificial substitute?)

(Also: I seriously think that public schooling is a very large part of what harms and stunts the development of essence and cultivates false personality in children. Its impact deserves as much examination as the impact of being brought up by narcissistic parents.)

Gatto looks at the historical development of the educational psychology which is in use in schooling. The US ideologues who put in place public schooling in conjunction with the industrial revolution got the idea from Prussia. In turn, Gatto lists examples of the same fundamental principles having been stated and re-stated, with various variations, centuries further back in history.

I'll end by including two quotes, from ideological supporters of public education, included by Gatto.

Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual...

The great purpose of school can be realized better in dark, ugly, airless places... It is to master the physical self, to transcend the beauty of nature. School should develop the power to withdraw from the external world. {I.e., school should train people to dissociate. Gatto also generally describes how school develops self-alienation in people, and relates it to this passage.}

We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific manual tasks.