Post-imperialism-A-Template-for-a-New-Social-Order

[bjorb]

[quote author=Mal7]I disagree with other points in the thread that seem to me to come from a viewpoint that money is bad, and that people who exchange goods or services for money are greedy or selfish.
[/quote]

Well, if you where referring to me. You are wrong. All I am saying is that community should come first and money second. I think that money is a good learning tool. It offers choose and setting priorities. But it shouldn’t run the show. Community spirit should do that. Hopefully community points could help people see that.

 

[Mal7]

Well, if you where referring to me. You are wrong. All I am saying is that community should come first and money second. I think that money is a good learning tool. It offers choose and setting priorities. But it shouldn’t run the show. Community spirit should do that. Hopefully community points could help people see that.

Okay fine. :) I think we can talk about money, without thinking that just because we are discussing money, that money is all-important and should come first. It is like a whole system with different components. Talking about what comes first or second might not be useful - it might be like saying of the physiological body that breathing should come first, and digestion second. Both are just components of the system, it is not a competition.

 

[Pierre]

Well, if you where referring to me. You are wrong. All I am saying is that community should come first and money second. I think that money is a good learning tool. It offers choose and setting priorities. But it shouldn’t run the show. Community spirit should do that. Hopefully community points could help people see that.

Okay fine. :) I think we can talk about money, without thinking that just because we are discussing money, that money is all-important and should come first. It is like a whole system with different components. Talking about what comes first or second might not be useful - it might be like saying of the physiological body that breathing should come first, and digestion second.

Money is a form of energy which is not intrinsically good or bad, it's a mean not and end. It's the way it's used that can make it positive or negative. Money can serve positive purposes like fair trade, fair compensation for work or it can serve negative purpose like speculation or debt slavery.

 

[kalibex]

Similarly, a 'psychopath', or whatever, involved in some crime, say of violence or attempted violence against another, will probably be dealt with on the spot by the intended victim or his/her helpers.

A potential scenario I envision is something like this: I'm out in the street, mulling over which way I want to go when I see someone run up to you and start beating you or whatever. Without even thinking about it, my body is probably going to simply take off in your direction and I'll wind up doing my best to stop the violence, even if I'm hurt in the process.

Oh, I figured something like that. But 'dealt with', how? Arrested? Permanently dispatched on the spot?

What would the new cultural stance be towards psychopaths? One would imagine, at this point, after all we've been through... that the attitude would be one of Zero Tolerance. Especially if they are indeed 4D STS proxies, and this became widely known and understood. Would psycopaths be, in effect, the equivalent of a 'mad dog'? To be dispatched, humanely, immediately upon discovery?

And if some were discovered and rooted out, but somehow evaded the good townspeople and escaped... what do you imagine those displaced psycopaths would be most likely to do next?

 

[Neil]

Well, my opinion is that in a world without psychopathy, there is no place for psychopaths. What kind of planet do you want to live on? Sometimes tough choices have to be made. Now, some of the garden variety psychopaths might be productive as heavy laborers, they would be given a certain minimum of comforts, but could never become full fledged citizens because they're too dangerous. However, the more clever and calculating ones as well as the hardcore sadomasochists would be executed in some form or fashion in many of the ancient societies that this model is based on.

The problem with this, of course, is once you give the government the authority to execute undesirables, the door to totalitarianism is opened in short order. Presently, there is no definitive way to identify psychopaths, which is why I think the template did not expand on how to handle them. Ultimately, I think this is a problem with a metaphysical solution, there must be a way to tune one's reading instrument to recognize one's level of Being, and if there is a certain level of nastiness, you pretty much know what you're dealing with. You could then have a "public viewing" in front of the populace, and a consensus decision could be made. However until, this ability is developed in humanity, your hands are kind of tied and anything you do is a pretty sticky wicket.

One alternative solution would be to sterilize those that have the genes for psychopathy, and see if you could breed it out of the gene pool, but I have this feeling that 4D STS can engineer as many psychopaths as it needs, and the problem won't really go away.

Another possibility is what the Cassiopaeans said about psychopaths being "failed OPs." Is it possible to modify the metaphysical environment so that these OPs, no longer "fail?" If you have a society that is led by souled individuals aligning with the thought center of Being, and this energy overflows and fills the authoritarian follower types, would it create some kind of group resonance that would inoculate them against the predations of 4D STS? That would be an ideal solution, but it again relies on metaphysics that we don't fully grasp. I'd be interested to see if the Cassiopaeans could give some guidance on this matter.

 

[mkrnhr]

One thing that should be kept in mind in the small community, village-like structure of society. In small villages, people know each other, and there are naturally village social events, and inter-village social events as well (dancing, marriages, etc.). Usually you have some archetypal characters like the idiot, the eccentric, the moron, etc., and people know how to adapt to each case accordingly, provided that have access to that shared knowledge. In the case of a psychopath being known as such, not only the small community system itself (with limited monopolization) with its open communication will prevent its ascention to power, it will also keep it from isolating victims. I would imagine that for instance if one transfers to such a community s/he'll be told something like: that person is a psycho, just be careful when you do business with and don't let it manipulate you, in any case don't worry as long as you talk about and avoid being driven into a one-to-one interaction. Something like that.

 

[Mal7]

Well, my opinion is that in a world without psychopathy, there is no place for psychopaths.

When there is much more awareness of psychopathy in a society, the psychopaths may not not be as great a threat, even without their being eliminated. They will not have the reins of power and the same level of influence on the culture. They could be thought of as like cancerous cells in a fundamentally healthy body. Scientists say that we all have a few cancerous cells here and there in our bodies, but most of the time they just sit there quietly, rather than becoming malignant and multiplying to dangerous levels.

 

[Buddy]

Oh, I figured something like that. But 'dealt with', how? Arrested? Permanently dispatched on the spot?

What would the new cultural stance be towards psychopaths? One would imagine, at this point, after all we've been through... that the attitude would be one of Zero Tolerance. Especially if they are indeed 4D STS proxies, and this became widely known and understood. Would psycopaths be, in effect, the equivalent of a 'mad dog'? To be dispatched, humanely, immediately upon discovery?

And if some were discovered and rooted out, but somehow evaded the good townspeople and escaped... what do you imagine those displaced psycopaths would be most likely to do next?

I don't know and the hypothetical questions and scenarios I've been entertaining so far are smoking my brain. Some of this will probably be figured out before it's needed and some of it will probably be figured out as life happens.

ATM, I'll have to evade anything more specific by pointing back to those who're describing it as a work-in-progress still. mkrnhr posted an example scenario that feels totally realistic and will probably most likely be the case, IMO. And Mal7 just posted something that might take away some of the fear due to their lack of power and influence.

 

[kalibex]

Another possibility is what the Cassiopaeans said about psychopaths being "failed OPs." Is it possible to modify the metaphysical environment so that these OPs, no longer "fail?"

I was wondering the same thing - what makes an OP 'fail' so that they can be co-opted? Maybe it's a simple physical malfunction during development or post birth illness/injury (detectable physical changes observed in psychopaths by some researchers, if I recall correctly) that leaves them with the malfunctioning 'conscience' area, henceforth 'useable' by 4D STS due to an energetic change. If so, might not be that difficult to spot the vulnerable ones.

Saw some claim recently that more psychopaths are born during January. Have to go find that; see if there's anything to that.

 

[mkrnhr]

ATM, I'll have to evade anything more specific by pointing back to those who're describing it as a work-in-progress still. mkrnhr posted an example scenario that feels totally realistic and will probably most likely be the case, IMO. And Mal7 just posted something that might take away some of the fear due to their lack of power and influence.

The main premise of the post-imperialism is to offer an environment that doesn't degenerate into a full pathocracy. It doesn't intend to oppose the natural order, yin/yang, petty tyrants, 3D experiences, karma learning profiles, etc. but to avoid the feedback instability that leads to mad imbalance we're witnessing. By offering such an environment that doesn't feed psychopaths with influence and power (one can think of it as an environment that it poor in psychopath's resources/food) there is no need for such measures as physical or genetic elimination of harmless psychopaths (which are projections from our current paradigm into a very different one). Natural selection would balance things out properly. OSIT

 

[Buddy]

ATM, I'll have to evade anything more specific by pointing back to those who're describing it as a work-in-progress still. mkrnhr posted an example scenario that feels totally realistic and will probably most likely be the case, IMO. And Mal7 just posted something that might take away some of the fear due to their lack of power and influence.

The main premise of the post-imperialism is to offer an environment that doesn't degenerate into a full pathocracy. It doesn't intend to oppose the natural order, yin/yang, petty tyrants, 3D experiences, karma learning profiles, etc. but to avoid the feedback instability that leads to mad imbalance we're witnessing. By offering such an environment that doesn't feed psychopaths with influence and power (one can think of it as an environment that it poor in psychopath's resources/food) there is no need for such measures as physical or genetic elimination of harmless psychopaths (which are projections from our current paradigm into a very different one). Natural selection would balance things out properly. OSIT

Awesome! The main premise appears to eliminate the threat that's potentially the most overwhelming, while leaving freedom for people to grow in whatever other dimensions and directions necessary and natural for them. Thanks for that, mkrnhr!

 

[kalibex]

(one can think of it as an environment that it poor in psychopath's resources/food) there is no need for such measures as physical or genetic elimination of harmless psychopaths

Ok, so you're saying keeping them from rising to the top would be enough. That and parental education (hopefully) eliminating
the phenomena of sadistic psychopaths being formed by childhood abuse. They might be clever or make lots of money but they'd never collect the type of social capital that would let them ever really influence much.

 

[Neil]

Well, my great fear is that the psychopaths will bide their time, find each other, and gradually coalesce into something that can surreptitiously dig it's claws into the social order. Supposedly there are underground cities full of not very nice people waiting for things to settle down so they can come out and reconsolidate their power on the surface. Yeah, a lot of them might get destroyed, but not all. I know I'm getting way off topic with this stuff, and perhaps my fears are irrational but...

If similar societies existed in Paleolithic times, even before Atlantis, and these psychopaths were around then, what the heck went so wrong that we find ourselves in this predicament? And how is our society going to avoid the same fate? Are we older and wiser now that we have been through that Yuga cycle and the lessons have been learned? I hope so.

 

[whitecoast]

ATM, I'll have to evade anything more specific by pointing back to those who're describing it as a work-in-progress still. mkrnhr posted an example scenario that feels totally realistic and will probably most likely be the case, IMO. And Mal7 just posted something that might take away some of the fear due to their lack of power and influence.

The main premise of the post-imperialism is to offer an environment that doesn't degenerate into a full pathocracy. It doesn't intend to oppose the natural order, yin/yang, petty tyrants, 3D experiences, karma learning profiles, etc. but to avoid the feedback instability that leads to mad imbalance we're witnessing. By offering such an environment that doesn't feed psychopaths with influence and power (one can think of it as an environment that it poor in psychopath's resources/food) there is no need for such measures as physical or genetic elimination of harmless psychopaths (which are projections from our current paradigm into a very different one). Natural selection would balance things out properly. OSIT

Another thing to think about to is that it could be counterproductive to completely eliminate psychopathy or the carriers of psychopathy. If an esoteric community removes them entirely, following generations would lose the valuable first hand experience of identifying them in the wild. Knowledge of psychopathy or ponerology could degenerate into a mere theoretical exercise. If such a community does encounter communities with psychopaths they would be at a greater risk of being psychologically compromised and ponerised. It's like culturing bacteria in Petrie dishes; they gradually lose the ability to deal with more complex environmental stressors. In that way having one or two in each generation or every other generation would act homeopathically to maintain its practical expertise in dealing with those individuals.

 

[Joe]

Another possibility is what the Cassiopaeans said about psychopaths being "failed OPs." Is it possible to modify the metaphysical environment so that these OPs, no longer "fail?"

I was wondering the same thing - what makes an OP 'fail' so that they can be co-opted? Maybe it's a simple physical malfunction during development or post birth illness/injury (detectable physical changes observed in psychopaths by some researchers, if I recall correctly) that leaves them with the malfunctioning 'conscience' area, henceforth 'useable' by 4D STS due to an energetic change. If so, might not be that difficult to spot the vulnerable ones.

Saw some claim recently that more psychopaths are born during January. Have to go find that; see if there's anything to that.

This may have to do with genetic 'tweaking' that the Cs have said was carried out to on humans and proto-human species over the course of human evolution. So getting rid of that might require a very different environment with different 'rules' to this one.

I think the one key factor that was not included in the article (although it sort of informed the idea) and therefore isn't really a part of most members' conception of this kind of 'postimperalist society' is that we may not be talking about a 3D society.