Postmodern thinking of millennials

[Windmill knight]

I'd really like to think that she is really the exception and not the rule. I once worked in a place full of millenials, and they were very much like Simon Sinek described them - they had their quirks, such as a lack of patience and an unrealistic urgency, almost entitlement, to being successful right away, and they also complained a lot. But they were nowhere near how that girl was. It could be that the numbers of the really narcissistic ones is growing, in which case the comment from the Cs comes to mind: 'The program is complete'. If so, the program is not just nihilism/relativism/materialism, but also an accute narcissism - which is kind of a logical consequence, if you think about it. Maybe they're all just aspects of the same postmodernist attitude or 'philosophy'.

 

[genero81]

It's "Selection and Substitution" that Lobaczewski describes so perfectly as being the foundation for hystericization.

Right, I think this is a good example if I'm understanding Lobaczweski correctly. She's substituting something one can have a personal preference for like a favorite color, with something that that doesn't apply to; the spelling of a word. And it comes off as a tad hysterical.

 

[Laura]

Right, I think this is a good example if I'm understanding Lobaczweski correctly. She's substituting something one can have a personal preference for like a favorite color, with something that that doesn't apply to; the spelling of a word. And it comes off as a tad hysterical.

That's certainly a simple way to describe it. But it is sure way deeper than that since the attitude is systemic. Following are a few snips from Ponerology on the topic:

Information selection and substitution

: Unconscious psychological processes outstrip conscious reasoning, both in time and in scope, which makes many psychological phenomena possible: including those generally described as conversive, such as subconscious blocking out of conclusions, the selection, and, also, substitution of seemingly uncomfortable premises.

We speak of blocking out conclusions if the inferential process was proper in principle and has almost arrived at a conclusion and final comprehension within the act of internal projection, but becomes stymied by a preceding directive from the subconscious, which considered it inexpedient or disturbing. This is primitive prevention of personality disintegration, which may seem advantageous; however, it also prevents all the advantages which could be derived from consciously elaborated conclusion and reintegration. A conclusion thus rejected remains in our subconscious and in a more unconscious way causes the next blocking and selection of this kind. This can be totally harmful, progressively enslaving a person to his own subconscious, and is often accompanied by a feeling of tension and bitterness.

We speak of selection of premises whenever the feedback goes deeper into the resulting reasoning and from its database thus deletes and represses into the subconscious just that piece of information which was responsible for arriving at the uncomfortable conclusion. Our subconscious then permits further logical reasoning, except that the outcome will be erroneous in direct proportion to the actual significance of the repressed data. An ever-greater number of such repressed information is collected in our subconscious memory. Finally, a kind of habit seems to take over: similar material is treated the same way even if reasoning would have reached an outcome quite advantageous to the person.

The most complex process of this type is substitution of premises thus eliminated by other data, ensuring an ostensibly more comfortable conclusion. Our associative ability rapidly elaborates a new item to replace the removed one, but it is one leading to a comfortable conclusion. This operation takes the most time, and it is unlikely to be exclusively subconscious. Such substitutions are often effected collectively, in certain groups of people, through the use of verbal communication. That is why they best qualify for the moralizing epithet “hypocrisy” than either of the above-mentioned processes.

The above examples of conversive phenomena do not exhaust a problem richly illustrated in psychoanalytical works. Our subconscious may carry the roots of human genius within, but its operation is not perfect; sometimes it is reminiscent of a blind computer, especially whenever we allow it to be cluttered with anxiously rejected material. This explains why conscious monitoring, even at the price of courageously accepting disintegrative states, is likewise necessary to our nature, not to mention our individual and social good.

Basically, it amounts to people creating narratives that make them feel good if reality isn't to their liking. It reminds me of a sort of joke that was passed around in the welfare agency where I used to work which had a department that dealt with people suffering mental issues: "Neurotics build castles in the air; Psychotics move into them."

It's one thing to neurotically avoid anything unpleasant, another to categorically deny the existence of what you don't like.

If a child is brought up from infancy being taught that their rights/ beliefs/ perspectives are perfect and wonderful, and they are entitled to them no matter what, they are basically being programmed to believe that their "personal reality" is more important and real than REALITY that exists independently of them. These are children who have never been told "NO", who have never been required to suffer the consequences of their behavior, who have been bailed out repeatedly by "helicopter parents" who can't bear the idea that little Bobby or Susie might ever be frustrated in the least.

During “good” times, the search for truth becomes uncomfortable because it reveals inconvenient factors. It is better to think about easier and more pleasant things. Unconscious elimination of data which are or appear to be inexpedient gradually turns to habit, then becomes a custom accepted by society at large. Any thought process based on such truncated information cannot possibly give rise to correct conclusions; it further leads to subconscious substitution of inconvenient premises by more convenient ones, thereby approaching the boundaries of phenomena which should be viewed as psychopathological.

Such contented periods, which are often rooted in some injustice to other people or nations, start to strangle the capacity for individual and societal consciousness; subconscious factors take over a decisive role in life. Such a society, already infected by the hysteroidal state, considers any perception of uncomfortable truth to be a sign of “ill-breeding”. J. G. Herder’s iceberg is drowned in a sea of falsified unconsciousness; only the tip of the iceberg is visible above the waves of life. Catastrophe waits in the wings. In such times, the capacity for logical and disciplined thought, born of necessity during difficult times, begins to fade. When communities lose the capacity for psychological reason and moral criticism, the processes of the generation of evil are intensified at every social scale, whether individual or macrosocial, until they revert to “bad” times.

While visiting Upper Austria in 1978, I decided to drop in on the local parson, who was in his seventies by then. When I told him about myself, I suddenly realized he thought I was lying and inventing pretty stories. He subjected my statements to psychological analysis, based on this unassailable assumption and attempted to convince me that his morals were lofty. When I complained to a friend of mine about this, he was amused: “As a psychologist, you were extremely lucky to catch the survival of authentic Austrian talk (die oesterreichische Rede). We young ones have been incapable of demonstrating it to you even if we wanted to simulate it.”

In the European languages, “Austrian talk” has become the common descriptive term for paralogistic[1] discourse. Many people using this term nowadays are unaware of its origin. Within the context of maximum hysterical intensity in Europe at the time, the authentic article represented a typical product of conversive thinking[2]: subconscious selection and substitution of data lead to chronic avoidance of the crux of the matter. In the same manner, the reflex assumption that every speaker is lying is an indication of the hysterical anti-culture of mendacity, within which telling the truth becomes “immoral”.

​

[1] Paralogism: n. illogical or fallacious deduction. paralogical, paralogistic, a. paralogize, v.i. be illogical; draw unwarranted conclusions. paralogist, n. [Editor’s note.]

[2] Conversive thinking: using terms but giving them opposing or twisted meanings. Examples: peacefulness - appeasement; freedom - license; initiative - arbitrariness; traditional - backward; rally - mob; efficiency - small-mindedness. Example: the words “peacefulness” and “appeasement” denote the same thing--a striving to establish peace, but have entirely different connotations which indicate the speaker’s attitude toward this striving toward peace. [Editor’s note.]

At the same time, America, especially the U.S.A., has reached a nadir for the first time in its short history. It is hard to judge whether we are observing the symptoms of incipient upward movement, although it seems likely. Grey-haired Europeans living in the U.S. today are struck by the similarity between these phenomena and the ones dominating Europe at the times of their youth. The emotionalism dominating individual, collective and political life, as well as the subconscious selection and substitution of data in reasoning, are impoverishing the development of a psychological world view and leading to individual and national egotism. The mania for taking offense at the drop of a hat provokes constant retaliation, taking advantage of hyper-irritability and hypo-criticality on the part of others.

America’s psychological recession drags in its wake an impaired socio-professional adaptation of this country’s people, leading to a waste of human talent and an involution of societal structure. If we were to calculate this country’s adaptation correlation index, as suggested in the prior chapter, it would probably be lower than the great majority of the free and civilized nations of this world, and possibly lower than some countries which have lost their freedom. A highly talented individual in this country finds it ever more difficult to fight his way through to his right to self-realization and a socially creative position. Universities, politics, and even some business areas ever more frequently demonstrate an united front of relatively untalented persons. The word “overeducated” is heard more and more often. Such “overqualified” individuals finally hide out in some foundation laboratory where they are allowed to earn the Nobel prize. In the meantime, the country as whole suffers due to a deficit in the inspirational role of highly gifted individuals.

As a result, America is stifling progress in all areas of life, from culture to technology and economics, not excluding political incompetence. When linked to other deficiencies, an egotist’s incapability of understanding other people and nations leads to political error and the scapegoating of outsiders. Slamming the brakes on the evolution of political structures and social institutions increases both administrative inertia and discontent on the part of its victims.

We should realize that the most dramatic social difficulties and tensions occur at least ten years after the first observable indications of having emerged from a psychological crisis. Being a sequel, they also constitute a delayed reaction to the cause or are stimulated by the same psychological activation process. The time span for effective countermeasures is thus rather limited.

 

[Woodsman]

America’s psychological recession drags in its wake an impaired socio-professional adaptation of this country’s people, leading to a waste of human talent and an involution of societal structure. If we were to calculate this country’s adaptation correlation index, as suggested in the prior chapter, it would probably be lower than the great majority of the free and civilized nations of this world, and possibly lower than some countries which have lost their freedom. A highly talented individual in this country finds it ever more difficult to fight his way through to his right to self-realization and a socially creative position. Universities, politics, and even some business areas ever more frequently demonstrate an united front of relatively untalented persons. The word “overeducated” is heard more and more often. Such “overqualified” individuals finally hide out in some foundation laboratory where they are allowed to earn the Nobel prize. In the meantime, the country as whole suffers due to a deficit in the inspirational role of highly gifted individuals.

I've been watching from the sidelines as this effect guts the Western comic book industry. Woke diversity cultists and cancel culture have pretty much torched a once thriving industry. It's been quite a circus over the last year or so; forces playing upon all of society performed live in microcosm.

It's also been fascinating as normal people, both those caught in the malestorm and those on the sidelines, have been readily, even enthusiastically, climbing a steep learning curve; since when could the average comic book reader discuss and apply complex psychological concepts with facility and concrete understanding? They're not using all the discrete definitions we are familiar with here, but they have a strong, working grasp of the concepts, using entirely different terminology. It may seem somewhat comical (heh), but that's exactly what is happening.

"Hard times forge strong people." -And the internet has accelerated the process enormously, where you can tune in for the latest dramatic updates daily.

 

[Arwenn]

A highly talented individual in this country finds it ever more difficult to fight his way through to his right to self-realization and a socially creative position. Universities, politics, and even some business areas ever more frequently demonstrate an united front of relatively untalented persons.

That describes my organisation (global eyewear & eye care conglomerate) in a nutshell. Over the last decade or so, the lack of competence in mid-senior management levels has been staggering.

 

[Gruchaa]

That describes my organisation (global eyewear & eye care conglomerate) in a nutshell. Over the last decade or so, the lack of competence in mid-senior management levels has been staggering.

Same in my company. More and more talking about Diversity, Inclusion etc (we have also training's about that).. And if someone makes mistake, there is no criticism. Even they promote sometimes these who made mistakes. It is very demotivating for these one who are trying and doing their job.

 

[Breo]

In the European languages, “Austrian talk” has become the common descriptive term for paralogistic[1] discourse. Many people using this term nowadays are unaware of its origin. Within the context of maximum hysterical intensity in Europe at the time, the authentic article represented a typical product of conversive thinking[2]: subconscious selection and substitution of data lead to chronic avoidance of the crux of the matter. In the same manner, the reflex assumption that every speaker is lying is an indication of the hysterical anti-culture of mendacity, within which telling the truth becomes “immoral”.

There is a joke like saying that describes the Austrian paralogistic mentality:
"Austrians managed to make the world believe that Beethoven was an Austrian and Adolf Hitler a German."

And then there is the historical fact that Austria was involved in the start of both World Wars.
The catalyst event for the outbreak of WW I in 1914 was the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, the heir to the Habsburg throne in Sarajevo. And Adolf Hitlers birthplace, who provoked the second World War, is in Upper Austria.

How closely Austria is connected to both World Wars is not explicitly taught in Austrian schools and not present in the average Austrian consciousness. When this is mentioned in a conversation the mildest typical Austrian reaction is uncomfortable bewilderment. At its worst it is "The mania for taking offense at the drop of a hat provoking constant retaliation, taking advantage of hyper-irritability and hypo-criticality on the part of others."

What is taught in Austrian schools is that Austria has been the victim of the annexation („Der Anschluss“) by Nazi Germany, which is legally correct but in stark contrast to the reality of how the majority of the population reacted. 1938 the masses frenetically welcomed Hitler in Vienna. A vivid example of „subconscious selection and substitution of data leading to chronic avoidance of the crux of the matter.“

The term „Austrian talk“ is typically not known or used in Austria of today, also not by educated intellectuals.

 

[Arwenn]

Same in my company. More and more talking about Diversity, Inclusion etc (we have also training's about that).. And if someone makes mistake, there is no criticism. Even they promote sometimes these who made mistakes. It is very demotivating for these one who are trying and doing their job.

Yup, same here. It's just appalling how the inept and untalented (who often get things wrong, sometimes very wrong) get promoted. And it starts from the top- if there's ineptitude at higher levels, they will install just as inept people (or more so) below them so that their jobs aren't threatened by someone who could do a much better job. And then the organisation wonders why they aren't getting results?

Came across some interesting research as part of my studies (doing a post-grad degree at the moment) in organisational behaviour with regards to personality traits. Conscientiousness is highly correlated with high-performance output, although the literature is mixed about highly agreeable and emotionally stable traits and team performance. What I found interesting in the literature was the finding that teams with no disagreeable or introverted individuals perform better and moreover, teams with mixed levels of conscientiousness perform worse than teams comprising conscientious individuals. The research demonstrates the potential effect of one person negatively affecting the group dynamic. This has happened to me at work. A team member who is not so conscientious means that everyone else around them is picking up the slack. Add to that varying degrees of entitlement & narcissism plus lack of adequate leadership and the situation is just a total mess.

 

[Woodsman]

There's some great stuff being aired this week...

Michael Knowles speaks well on Truth v Lies and makes some elegant reductions of the confusing Leftist ideology. (And if you close your eyes, yes, you do recognize that accent; it's the same one Obama used. I think it may be the new Mid-Atlantic accent).

If you zoom ahead to 41:25, you'll see a moment with a young man who wants to work in Hollywood receiving some powerful truth/advice. I found it moving.

 

[sid]

Yup, same here. It's just appalling how the inept and untalented (who often get things wrong, sometimes very wrong) get promoted. And it starts from the top- if there's ineptitude at higher levels, they will install just as inept people (or more so) below them so that their jobs aren't threatened by someone who could do a much better job. And then the organisation wonders why they aren't getting results?


Came across some interesting research as part of my studies (doing a post-grad degree at the moment) in organisational behaviour with regards to personality traits. Conscientiousness is highly correlated with high-performance output, although the literature is mixed about highly agreeable and emotionally stable traits and team performance. What I found interesting in the literature was the finding that teams with no disagreeable or introverted individuals perform better and moreover, teams with mixed levels of conscientiousness perform worse than teams comprising conscientious individuals. The research demonstrates the potential effect of one person negatively affecting the group dynamic. This has happened to me at work. A team member who is not so conscientious means that everyone else around them is picking up the slack. Add to that varying degrees of entitlement & narcissism plus lack of adequate leadership and the situation is just a total mess.

I also happen to be working for a similar large organisation who is now starting to get really worried about operational costs rising faster than sales numbers. Reading PP again helped put things in better perspective.

You see, large organisations have comparatively higher salary bands for executives and upper management. And such organisations will invariably breed or attract two kinds of personalities in such higher positions which the market will supply them readily –

Spellbinders - quoting from PP, page 155-157, emphasis mine

In order to comprehend ponerogenic pathways of contagion, especially those acting in a wider social context, let us observe the roles and personalities of individuals we shall call “spell-binders”, who are highly active in this area in spite of their statistically negligible number.

Spellbinders are generally the carriers of various pathological factors, some characteropathies, and some inherited anomalies. Individuals with malformations of their personalities frequently play similar roles, although the social scale of influence remains small (family or neighborhood) and does not cross certain boundaries of decency.

Spellbinders are characterized by pathological egotism. Such a person is forced by some internal causes to make an early choice between two possibilities: the first is forcing other people to think and experience things in a manner similar to his own; the second is a feeling of being lonely and different, a pathological misfit in social life. Sometimes the choice is either snake-charming or suicide.

And quite often, the choice is to be a snake-charmer.

Triumphant repression of self-critical or unpleasant concepts from the field of consciousness gradually gives rise to the phenomena of conversion thinking, or paralogistics, paramoralisms, and the use of reversion blockades. They stream so profusely from the mind and mouth of the spellbinder that they flood the average person’s mind. Everything becomes subordinated to the spellbinder’s over-compensatory conviction that they are exceptional, sometimes even messianic. An ideology emerges from this conviction, true in part, whose value is supposedly superior. However, if we analyze the exact functions of such an ideology in the spellbinder’s personality, we perceive that it is a nothing other than a means of self-charming, useful for repressing those tormenting self-critical associations into the subconscious. The ideology’s instrumental role in influencing other people also serves the spellbinder’s needs.

Most large organisations have a one-line mantra, culture-statement or an ideology to rally the troops so to speak. It literally acts like a spell on the unsuspecting workers as if they are working towards a great cause, eradicating poverty, making more money for themselves or some other BS. In reality all they are doing is helping to line the pockets of the spellbinder even more.

The spellbinder believes that he will always find converts to his ideology, and most often, they are right. However, they feel shock (or even paramoral indignation) when it turns out that their influence extends to only a limited minority, while most people’s attitude to their activities remains critical, pained and disturbed. The spellbinder is thus confronted with a choice: either withdraw back into his void or strengthen his position by improving the effectiveness of his activities.

The above is 100% truth and I have observed this personally. The spellbinder, instead of backing down, doubles down on his/her efforts and proceeds to build a coterie of religious followers to his ideology. Most of these followers are psychologically deficient and mentally retarded individuals. I call them whisperers and CEO-wives. They spread themselves around the workplace and keep an eye on everyone whilst remaining inconspicuous.

The spellbinder places on a high moral plane anyone who has succumbed to his influence and incorporated the experiential method he imposes. He showers such people with attention and property, if possible. Critics are met with “moral” outrage. It can even be proclaimed that the compliant minority is in fact the moral majority, since it professes the best ideology and honors a leader whose qualities are above average.

The spellbinder will position such individuals in key positions of influence within an organisation.

Such activity is always necessarily characterized by the in-ability to foresee its final results, something obvious from the psychological point of view because its substratum contains pathological phenomena, and both spellbinding and self- charming make it impossible to perceive reality accurately enough to foresee results logically. However, spellbinders nurture great optimism and harbor visions of future triumphs similar to those they enjoyed over their own crippled souls. It is also possible for optimism to be a pathological symptom.

In a healthy society, the activities of spellbinders meet with criticism effective enough to stifle them quickly. However, when they are preceded by conditions operating destructively upon common sense and social order; such as social injustice, cultural backwardness, or intellectually limited rulers some-times manifesting pathological traits, spellbinders’ activities have led entire societies into large-scale human tragedy.

Replace “societies” with organisations and the picture is complete.

A spellbinder will promote and surround himself/herself with other psychologically deficient individuals such as below. Most of them would appear to be children trapped in adult bodies and they make for good yes men. He/she may employ other spellbinders for as long a financial gain is to be made and there is low risk of coup d'etat.

Upward Adjusted Individual – page 75-76

Another type of individual, on the other hand, may achieve an important post because they belong to privileged social groups or organizations in power while their talents and skills are not sufficient for their duties, especially the more difficult problems. Such persons then avoid the problematic and dedicate themselves to minor matters quite ostentatiously. A component of histrionics appears in their conduct and tests indicate that their correctness of reasoning progressively deteriorates after only a few years’ worth of such activities. In the face of increasing pressures to perform at a level unattainable for them, and in fear of being discovered as incompetent, they begin to direct attacks against anyone with greater talent or skill, removing them from appropriate posts and playing an active role in degrading their social and professional adjustment. This, of course, engenders a feeling of injustice and can lead to the problems of the downwardly adapted individual as described
above. Upwardly-adjusted people thus favor whip-cracking, totalitarian governments which would protect their positions.

There is much more to this phenomenon and Andrew L. does a very good job in describing a Ponerogenic union, its roots, ideologies and eventual demise which can be readily applied to most of the current large business organisations.

Below is a really excellent article by André Spicer who has also written a book on Business language being employed/developed to hypnotise workers to produce more for less. Heck, they even studied Gurdjieff and re-hashed some of his ideas.

From inboxing to thought showers: how business bullshit took over

The long read: Vacuous management-speak is easily laughed off – but is there a real cost to talking rubbish?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Beau]

In that sense, I'm a bit more optimistic than "everyone is going to devolve unfettered into mindless drones."

I dunno, I look around the news and the world and I see the majority of people inflicted with mass hysteria. They may not be "mindless drones" but there is enough data available to look at and feel less than optimistic about the future. People are being pushed to the extremes and divided against each other. It's not the kind of world that makes me feel good about where it's headed.

 

[Mark7]

Well, when I was growing up ( in the 80s), one of my cousins was exactly like that (and from what I hear she still is even in her fourties). Back then there was no doubt that she was in some way " deranged" and extremely narcissistic. She was "one of a kind", not a minority. But nowadays, they seem to be multiplying! The fact that there is even enough people like that to form a minority is in and of itself concerning enough. And the current ideology is normalizing their behavior more and more. So yes, there is still "normal" fortunately, but IMO we shouldn't underestimate how quickly that "normal" is changing. That girl in the video would have been fired in 10 minutes in the past.

Nowadays they sometimes get put in charge of others. It's negative feedback that keeps motors and electronics from catching fire.

 

[Scottie]

I dunno, I look around the news and the world and I see the majority of people inflicted with mass hysteria. They may not be "mindless drones" but there is enough data available to look at and feel less than optimistic about the future. People are being pushed to the extremes and divided against each other. It's not the kind of world that makes me feel good about where it's headed.

What's even worse than those who are clearly utterly hysterical is the response of many people to the super-crazy ones.

If some people are totally nuts, and the reaction to that is rationality mixed with a hysterical flavor, that's not helping.

I've seen this countless times in the current Era of Nonsense, and even noticed it in myself a few times.

In short, if our reactions to crazymaking IN ANY WAY involve a hysterical, militant, or overly emotional flavor, then we're part of the problem - not the solution.

Of course, we tend to justify this by saying, "Well, I'm just righteously angry!" And sometimes that's true, but often it's not.

Learning to discern between the two seems rather important to me at this point, especially considering the C's declarations of the Wave being "hyperkinetic sensate".

Like, "Oh yeah, there's this super-multidimensional wave of sparkling mojo coming, and it's sort of like Hyper-Fast Sensory Overload Juice! Cool, eh??"

Well, it sure does feel like we're all being "overloaded" with sensory input these days... And unfortunately it's not all roses and butterflies and shiny stuff!

 

[SummerLite]

In short, if our reactions to crazymaking IN ANY WAY involve a hysterical, militant, or overly emotional flavor, then we're part of the problem - not the solution.

Great timing Scottie! This very thing happened to me yesterday. It was my first encounter in a long time with someone who is on the other side of the political fence, so to speak. My emotional reaction was internally explosive, such an emotional rush! I was able to recognize and stop it fairly quickly fortunately, before it created problems with a co-worker and I've been pondering it ever since. A hysterical reaction that does no good what so ever. It reminded me of Castaneda's take on using the energy inside us, generated by petty tyrants, to accelerate our own evolution, how to do that?. No doubt, I'll have more opportunity to work on my reactions to people around me who are so influenced by fake news.

 

[Ca.]

Oh man... from lib central SF-bay area. You gotta love it. LOL!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1178006738030645249

https://twitter.com/x/status/1178012565525282818