Praying

Bud said:
Dingo said:
...a lot of the time, I will think to myself, I must found out more about "________", and then sometime in the future, sometimes a week, months, whatever, the very book, article, etc I needed to fulfill that turns up. It's like intent without attachment, which seems to me what you were referring to Bud with the Quest for the Holy Grail of No Anticipation.

Yep, exactly. Putting a time limit on it (anticipation involves a time and form factor, OSIT) = not-so-helpful! :)


Ever since I made this post I started having this really stupid idea but I can not logically remove it. If this is how the mind works then wouldn't it logically make sense to 'anticipate' all those things you don't want if the act of anticipation constricts its flow?
 
Dingo said:
Ever since I made this post I started having this really stupid idea but I can not logically remove it. If this is how the mind works then wouldn't it logically make sense to 'anticipate' all those things you don't want if the act of anticipation constricts its flow?
I don't think so as it seems it would be two sides of the same coin. Either way, it's the person's attempt to decide for themselves what is best which blocks the flow, or so I think.
 
Dingo said:
Bud said:
Dingo said:
...a lot of the time, I will think to myself, I must found out more about "________", and then sometime in the future, sometimes a week, months, whatever, the very book, article, etc I needed to fulfill that turns up. It's like intent without attachment, which seems to me what you were referring to Bud with the Quest for the Holy Grail of No Anticipation.

Yep, exactly. Putting a time limit on it (anticipation involves a time and form factor, OSIT) = not-so-helpful! :)


Ever since I made this post I started having this really stupid idea but I can not logically remove it. If this is how the mind works then wouldn't it logically make sense to 'anticipate' all those things you don't want if the act of anticipation constricts its flow?

It would seem to make sense, wouldn't it? Could it have something to do with actual vs imaginary possibilities?

Using the lottery as an example, there are lottery machines and paper. People work for a lottery organization. People win a lottery. In short, there is, at least, a little bit of evidence in reality at the moment, as it relates to you, to suggest that a possibility exists to win a specific lottery amount and have it paid a specific way. A very real possibility that can be canceled out by anticipation.

To try and cancel the possibility of a negative happening, is there any evidence in reality at the moment, as it relates to you, that might suggest the possibility that a specific unwanted event, happening a specific way, is possible?

I think the meaning of the word 'possible' must be taken seriously in this context, or one would risk falling into imagination, OSIT.
 
This seems to me trying to trick a law by veiling the real intent with a rewording of it. The intent is really that you don't want some things to occur.

If the flow is constricted, then wouldn't it follow that the prevention of the undesirable things wouldn't happen?

Let's call "the not happening of all the things you don't want" - 'E' and "anticipation" - 'A'

A~E‎‎ (A implies not E)

Or: anticipating the not happening of all the things you don't want will constrict the flow of the not happening of the things you don't want.
 
Dingo said:
Ever since I made this post I started having this really stupid idea but I can not logically remove it. If this is how the mind works then wouldn't it logically make sense to 'anticipate' all those things you don't want if the act of anticipation constricts its flow?

If it is anticipation itself and not necessarily WHAT is anticipated that changes your interactions with reality, then no... I am not sure we want to try to logically disprove your idea because then we probably need to define what axioms govern the system of logic we will be using. Since lots of people have spent lots of time trying to axiomatize math and physics, which I suspect by reflex must be simpler than axiomatizing all of reality, and failed, I think we may not want to go there.

For me, poetry is sufficient for explaining this idea to me. If I am dancing with the universe and I am strongly anticipating what the next move will be, I may not be able to follow the universe's lead as well. I could be starting a movement that has not been signaled or getting out of rhythm. Even if I anticipated the next move and happen to enter it at the correct moment, I might be operating from an entirely different part of the mind than that part which would be activated by sensitive interaction with the universe's cues.
 
I never prayed until i was made aware of the benefits through the c's. I am still not sure how, but i realize that it's more the intent. I try pray to the universe and everything sto. The reason i am posting thios, is cause i have just recently realized that i never included my higher self before. The first time i did have this revalation, it seemed like i could actually feel the connection.
 
Great answers, many thanks to you all.

I find that a simple thread such as this always opens up a can of worms for me! I hope this is not being inconsiderate :-[

I guess the upshot is, we need to live in 'the now', which is obviously difficult, but in reality we are not, we are working towards something we perceive is going to happen in the future. This could be one area where I come unstuck.

truth seeker said:
I don't think so as it seems it would be two sides of the same coin. Either way, it's the person's attempt to decide for themselves what is best which blocks the flow, or so I think.
Exactly! But are we deciding what is best based on anticipation of a future event.


Bud said:
To try and cancel the possibility of a negative happening, is there any evidence in reality at the moment, as it relates to you, that might suggest the possibility that a specific unwanted event, happening a specific way, is possible?

I think the meaning of the word 'possible' must be taken seriously in this context, or one would risk falling into imagination, OSIT.

No there is no evidence, only past experience, and this is obviously the crux of the main issue of worrying about stuff all the time, like money, because we imagine some possible outcome all the time based on the past, and we tend to assume the worst.

Jerry said:
This seems to me trying to trick a law by veiling the real intent with a rewording of it. The intent is really that you don't want some things to occur.

If the flow is constricted, then wouldn't it follow that the prevention of the undesirable things wouldn't happen?

Let's call "the not happening of all the things you don't want" - 'E' and "anticipation" - 'A'

A~E‎‎ (A implies not E)

Or: anticipating the not happening of all the things you don't want will constrict the flow of the not happening of the things you don't want.
LOL Being out-tricked by trying to trick...Nice!

Patience said:
Dingo said:
Ever since I made this post I started having this really stupid idea but I can not logically remove it. If this is how the mind works then wouldn't it logically make sense to 'anticipate' all those things you don't want if the act of anticipation constricts its flow?

If it is anticipation itself and not necessarily WHAT is anticipated that changes your interactions with reality, then no... I am not sure we want to try to logically disprove your idea because then we probably need to define what axioms govern the system of logic we will be using. Since lots of people have spent lots of time trying to axiomatize math and physics, which I suspect by reflex must be simpler than axiomatizing all of reality, and failed, I think we may not want to go there.

For me, poetry is sufficient for explaining this idea to me. If I am dancing with the universe and I am strongly anticipating what the next move will be, I may not be able to follow the universe's lead as well. I could be starting a movement that has not been signaled or getting out of rhythm. Even if I anticipated the next move and happen to enter it at the correct moment, I might be operating from an entirely different part of the mind than that part which would be activated by sensitive interaction with the universe's cues.

Nicely put.

I see lots of people on this forum struggling because they have jobs, are financially dependent (like me), and have to devote more time than they wish to jobs etc and less to themselves. How does one fix this other than to ask for financial independence or something similar, or a better and more efficient way to learn. How does one afford all the supplements etc when they are always broke? If one is in need of more financial independence in order to maintain health and work on oneself by having more time, they need to ask for it, but why do this if we are meant to be living in the now?

We are stuck here between living in the now and anticipating some future event that is driving our actions in the now, are we not?

I want to be more financially independent, because I want more freedom to explore not only my inner universe, but the outer one too which starts with this planet. I want the time to be able to explore as many options as possible when it comes to my health, my being, my seeking of knowledge, yet my lack of money and therefore time renders me in a tight spot where I am forced to have to accept others words, opinions and experiences over being able to learn for myself because in the back of my mind I have this idea that I am running out of time.

To truly live in the now and to accept that my life is guided by something bigger than me means I must suspend all anticipation of anything.

However to 'believe' that something big is coming and that I must prepare for this, means I have to anticipate.


When I get into these issues where I am totally confused as to what I am supposed to think, I usually default to the 'hell with it' nothing is making sense so I will not commit to either!

At this juncture, it would be nice to know the very origins of prayer I think. I know too that because I have asked this very question at some point I will find it :cool2:
 
Dingo said:
I guess the upshot is, we need to live in 'the now', which is obviously difficult, but in reality we are not, we are working towards something we perceive is going to happen in the future. This could be one area where I come unstuck.

To me, the interesting thing is that "Now" seems to have always been right in front of our faces, but we fail to see it because we've been behaviorally conditioned and our consciousnesses have been trained to live in a linear story line narrative of our lives, instead of actually experiencing our lives and the world, as it is, and fully, OSIT.


Jerry said:
This seems to me trying to trick a law by veiling the real intent with a rewording of it. The intent is really that you don't want some things to occur.

If the flow is constricted, then wouldn't it follow that the prevention of the undesirable things wouldn't happen?

Let's call "the not happening of all the things you don't want" - 'E' and "anticipation" - 'A'

A~E‎‎ (A implies not E)

Or: anticipating the not happening of all the things you don't want will constrict the flow of the not happening of the things you don't want.

Wonderful, Jerry! I want to give you a high five so bad.....
If we could combine the NOT logic with a knowledge of actual vs imaginary possibilities, we might have enough data to set up actual experiments!


Dingo said:
Bud said:
To try and cancel the possibility of a negative happening, is there any evidence in reality at the moment, as it relates to you, that might suggest the possibility that a specific unwanted event, happening a specific way, is possible?

I think the meaning of the word 'possible' must be taken seriously in this context, or one would risk falling into imagination, OSIT.

No there is no evidence, only past experience, and this is obviously the crux of the main issue of worrying about stuff all the time, like money, because we imagine some possible outcome all the time based on the past, and we tend to assume the worst.

Dingo, I really hope you enjoyed that link to the "Holy Grail of no Anticipation", because it's worth a re-read and because it seems to me that people are not picking up on some clues that are available.

The Left brain - Right brain thing is important to contemplate, OSIT.

You could think of it this way: The left brain is the story teller and the right brain is the 'feeler and creator of the Now'.

Try to ditch the 'time' concept by temporarily suspending your left-brain internal story-line. Instead, feel an Eternal Now where there is no 'time' - only cycles and repeating cycles and patterns of motion.

Instead of saying "at any given time", you could say "at any given point on a particular cycle". You are always at some point of some cycle or set of cycles that relate to you as well as coincide with the worldly and cosmic cycles. Whatever cycle you are currently engaged with is part of multiple cycles that steadily increase in scope, rather than 'time'. Whatever has happened in your 'past' happened on a previous point of a cycle which will be coming back around eventually, if not sooner.

This is an important reason for recapitulation and knowing your machine, because only learning lessons will release you from repeating patterns (cycles of motion) if they're undesirable. The more self-aware you become, through recapitulation or other means, the more you should come to know about your own repeating cycles and where you are on any 'circle', so-to-speak.

You said "No there is no evidence, only past experience", but past experience is specific and your worry seems to be generalized. What will help is for you to figure out what cycles repeat for you and what are the usual sequences so that you can recognize and be able to 'predict' things in your own life.

I don't know how old you are, but you could do your recapitulation of your life in cycles of 20 years, then 10 years, then 5 years, etc, going from making the most general statement of what a period of time was about for you and working your way down to the specific details that validate your general statement. You could even count the cycles in a day to determine how many behaviors repeat during the course of a day. How many 'routines', 'rituals', or "regular ways of doing something" make up the entirety of a day for you.

From the most repetitive behaviors in the course of a day, to something you only do once every 20 years or more, place everything you can about your life into a single context like a solar system, or galaxy, with orbiting bodies to represent these habits, or cycles.

If you make an effort to recap in terms of cycles instead of a linear story line, this will give you valuable practice for identifying personal repeating patterns, OSIT. This is the way your life happens anyway, so it's also more realistic.

By fooling ourselves into living a linear narrative, we create an illusion that there are "future moments" that are "fresh and new and full of promise and danger". Well, maybe. But a case can also be made that whatever you are doing now, you've done before and will do again, because there are only cycles.

You could probably combine Jerry's "NOT Anticipation" (which I find wonderful, burble, burble :)) with the idea of actual possibilities which are real for you from your knowledge of your own cycles and patterns and you should be able to see your life more like a model of a living operating system and less like some random walk mystery needing prayerful intervention except for maybe an extraordinary case or two.

Does this make any sense?
 
Bud said:
Dingo said:
I guess the upshot is, we need to live in 'the now', which is obviously difficult, but in reality we are not, we are working towards something we perceive is going to happen in the future. This could be one area where I come unstuck.

To me, the interesting thing is that "Now" seems to have always been right in front of our faces, but we fail to see it because we've been behaviorally conditioned and our consciousnesses have been trained to live in a linear story line narrative of our lives, instead of actually experiencing our lives and the world, as it is, and fully, OSIT.


Jerry said:
This seems to me trying to trick a law by veiling the real intent with a rewording of it. The intent is really that you don't want some things to occur.

If the flow is constricted, then wouldn't it follow that the prevention of the undesirable things wouldn't happen?

Let's call "the not happening of all the things you don't want" - 'E' and "anticipation" - 'A'

A~E‎‎ (A implies not E)

Or: anticipating the not happening of all the things you don't want will constrict the flow of the not happening of the things you don't want.

Wonderful, Jerry! I want to give you a high five so bad.....
If we could combine the NOT logic with a knowledge of actual vs imaginary possibilities, we might have enough data to set up actual experiments!


Dingo said:
Bud said:
To try and cancel the possibility of a negative happening, is there any evidence in reality at the moment, as it relates to you, that might suggest the possibility that a specific unwanted event, happening a specific way, is possible?

I think the meaning of the word 'possible' must be taken seriously in this context, or one would risk falling into imagination, OSIT.

No there is no evidence, only past experience, and this is obviously the crux of the main issue of worrying about stuff all the time, like money, because we imagine some possible outcome all the time based on the past, and we tend to assume the worst.

Dingo, I really hope you enjoyed that link to the "Holy Grail of no Anticipation", because it's worth a re-read and because it seems to me that people are not picking up on some clues that are available.

The Left brain - Right brain thing is important to contemplate, OSIT.

You could think of it this way: The left brain is the story teller and the right brain is the 'feeler and creator of the Now'.

Try to ditch the 'time' concept by temporarily suspending your left-brain internal story-line. Instead, feel an Eternal Now where there is no 'time' - only cycles and repeating cycles and patterns of motion.

Instead of saying "at any given time", you could say "at any given point on a particular cycle". You are always at some point of some cycle or set of cycles that relate to you as well as coincide with the worldly and cosmic cycles. Whatever cycle you are currently engaged with is part of multiple cycles that steadily increase in scope, rather than 'time'. Whatever has happened in your 'past' happened on a previous point of a cycle which will be coming back around eventually, if not sooner.

This is an important reason for recapitulation and knowing your machine, because only learning lessons will release you from repeating patterns (cycles of motion) if they're undesirable. The more self-aware you become, through recapitulation or other means, the more you should come to know about your own repeating cycles and where you are on any 'circle', so-to-speak.

You said "No there is no evidence, only past experience", but past experience is specific and your worry seems to be generalized. What will help is for you to figure out what cycles repeat for you and what are the usual sequences so that you can recognize and be able to 'predict' things in your own life.

I don't know how old you are, but you could do your recapitulation of your life in cycles of 20 years, then 10 years, then 5 years, etc, going from making the most general statement of what a period of time was about for you and working your way down to the specific details that validate your general statement. You could even count the cycles in a day to determine how many behaviors repeat during the course of a day. How many 'routines', 'rituals', or "regular ways of doing something" make up the entirety of a day for you.

From the most repetitive behaviors in the course of a day, to something you only do once every 20 years or more, place everything you can about your life into a single context like a solar system, or galaxy, with orbiting bodies to represent these habits, or cycles.

If you make an effort to recap in terms of cycles instead of a linear story line, this will give you valuable practice for identifying personal repeating patterns, OSIT. This is the way your life happens anyway, so it's also more realistic.

By fooling ourselves into living a linear narrative, we create an illusion that there are "future moments" that are "fresh and new and full of promise and danger". Well, maybe. But a case can also be made that whatever you are doing now, you've done before and will do again, because there are only cycles.

You could probably combine Jerry's "NOT Anticipation" (which I find wonderful, burble, burble :)) with the idea of actual possibilities which are real for you from your knowledge of your own cycles and patterns and you should be able to see your life more like a model of a living operating system and less like some random walk mystery needing prayerful intervention except for maybe an extraordinary case or two.

Does this make any sense?

Hi Bud,
Sorry for the late reply. I was away when you wrote this, and I have had to think about it since reading it when I came back. I guess it is better for me to mull over things before replying because in this case alone, I was able to recognize patterns within me, even in the way I think and what occupies my mind just upon waking or going to bed. It was quite revealing, and hopefully, from recognizing it, I can put stops to it.

I'm not sure what you say convinces me, I guess nothing does anyway, but I 'liked' it, if that makes any sense. I like the idea that the idea of linear time is a conditioned belief, rather than reality, and that cycles are more likely what is going on.

Thanks for your reply, it has given me food for thought. However, I still have a question, 'what is the reason for prayer?' Is this something that coincides with what you say in relation to asking for something but not in a linear fashion but more in changing what happens in one's cycles? Still confused on this one
 
Dingo said:
Hi Bud,
Sorry for the late reply. I was away when you wrote this, and I have had to think about it since reading it when I came back. I guess it is better for me to mull over things before replying because in this case alone, I was able to recognize patterns within me, even in the way I think and what occupies my mind just upon waking or going to bed. It was quite revealing, and hopefully, from recognizing it, I can put stops to it.

I'm not sure what you say convinces me, I guess nothing does anyway, but I 'liked' it, if that makes any sense. I like the idea that the idea of linear time is a conditioned belief, rather than reality, and that cycles are more likely what is going on.

Thanks for your reply, it has given me food for thought.

Have you given any thought to the role that 'Creation' stories might play? Most every culture has a 'Creation' story and such could serve nicely as a foundation for the linear time mindset because it seems to be established in the deepest parts of our being where spiritual aspirations seem to reside.

Such a story allows for a 'beginning' (past) a 'middle' and a 'future'. Yet, the C's say there is only the now? Hmmm. What would reality feel like without any stories that have a past, present and future? What would reality feel like if there was only a sense of patterns and cycles as happenings that repeat themselves? Only the cycles that repeat in our own lifetimes would be noticed by us and 'cultural remembering' (Oral tradition) would account for any memory of larger cycles. Since any cycle that has ever occurred would, by definition, still exist, that might account for how everything could be still happening in the Now. Not a 'frozen' Now, but a perpetual, ongoing, cyclic Now.

Where would any 'linear' sense develop from if not from a 'story' with the kinds of elements mentioned above?

I'm just wondering and thinking too, but I think there may be something to this.

Dingo said:
However, I still have a question, 'what is the reason for prayer?' Is this something that coincides with what you say in relation to asking for something but not in a linear fashion but more in changing what happens in one's cycles? Still confused on this one

Sorry about the confusion. I would say it's more about a process of thought leading to having an idea what you can or cannot, or should or should not pray for...if there is any 'reason' for the process. Otherwise you might run into a snafu praying for something that simply couldn't happen unless Universe is willing to change the scheme of patterns and cycles It uses to operate. This makes sense to me but it doesn't mean I can't be wrong. :)
 
Bud said:
Dingo said:
Hi Bud,
Sorry for the late reply. I was away when you wrote this, and I have had to think about it since reading it when I came back. I guess it is better for me to mull over things before replying because in this case alone, I was able to recognize patterns within me, even in the way I think and what occupies my mind just upon waking or going to bed. It was quite revealing, and hopefully, from recognizing it, I can put stops to it.

I'm not sure what you say convinces me, I guess nothing does anyway, but I 'liked' it, if that makes any sense. I like the idea that the idea of linear time is a conditioned belief, rather than reality, and that cycles are more likely what is going on.

Thanks for your reply, it has given me food for thought.

Have you given any thought to the role that 'Creation' stories might play? Most every culture has a 'Creation' story and such could serve nicely as a foundation for the linear time mindset because it seems to be established in the deepest parts of our being where spiritual aspirations seem to reside.

Such a story allows for a 'beginning' (past) a 'middle' and a 'future'. Yet, the C's say there is only the now? Hmmm. What would reality feel like without any stories that have a past, present and future? What would reality feel like if there was only a sense of patterns and cycles as happenings that repeat themselves? Only the cycles that repeat in our own lifetimes would be noticed by us and 'cultural remembering' (Oral tradition) would account for any memory of larger cycles. Since any cycle that has ever occurred would, by definition, still exist, that might account for how everything could be still happening in the Now. Not a 'frozen' Now, but a perpetual, ongoing, cyclic Now.

Where would any 'linear' sense develop from if not from a 'story' with the kinds of elements mentioned above?

I'm just wondering and thinking too, but I think there may be something to this.

Not before, but that makes sense. Even though I said I'm not convinced, I think it has more merit now to me than the idea of linear time, a greater possibility of being correct.

So the future event we are working towards, i.e. ascension to 4th density, is simply part of a large cycle. It may be that praying is simply asking for the right guidance in order to be ready during this cycle and to not make the same mistakes as last cycle (12,000 or 309K years ago whichever it is).
 
Dingo said:
So the future event we are working towards, i.e. ascension to 4th density, is simply part of a large cycle. It may be that praying is simply asking for the right guidance in order to be ready during this cycle and to not make the same mistakes as last cycle (12,000 or 309K years ago whichever it is).

Now you're talking in cycles...and making more sense from my perspective! :D
 
Im having a particulary tough time atm and have only just started praying for guidance. Is there anything specific i need to be doing during prayer? Does i need to do it in front of a cross (for example) ? A particulary time?
Any advice is appreciated.
 
melatonin said:
Im having a particulary tough time atm and have only just started praying for guidance. Is there anything specific i need to be doing during prayer? Does i need to do it in front of a cross (for example) ? A particulary time?
Any advice is appreciated.

It's my understanding that all one needs is to ask sincerely and it will be heard. Whatever the time, wherever the place.
 
melatonin said:
Im having a particulary tough time atm and have only just started praying for guidance. Is there anything specific i need to be doing during prayer? Does i need to do it in front of a cross (for example) ? A particulary time?
Any advice is appreciated.

Why would you pray in front of a cross?? That is a symbol of organized religion, which is just a tool of the PTB, and rituals basically do nothing. Do you do the Prayer of the Soul meditation from EE? That may help you. :)
 

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