Preparedness

[Nienna]

Just a while ago, I watched the movie The Secret of Kells. What a beautiful story! I think that it depicted, very well, what is being talked about here. To me, at least, it showed that be obsessed with survival from an attack is not what is really important. What is important is that once the attack is over, there is someone there who can help the people who remain in a spiritual and emotional way. To help them see light in the darkness. To help them live again.

As has been said in many places here on the forum, your intent is what is really important. Do you want to survive just for survival's sake? Or are you more concerned with the welfare of others who will remain after all is said and done?

fwiw

 

[Laurentien2]

What I want to say is: don't you think you will try to survive to help others and try to be the last one who die?

I would certainly try to help others, since that's why I'm here, though I think the 'last one to die' idea is rather horrific. With that said, death is nothing to be afraid of, and being afraid of it - living one's life in 'mortal fear' of mortality - is a waste of energy. At some point, death is preferable to living in a nightmare - just my personal take on that, of course.

I agree with you Anart, what is it with that poisonous gift from the lizy that we want so much to preserve. There is a price that I'm ready to pay for the lesson that are coming but, the day I will choose to stop helping others will be the day I dye. I'm not talking a physical dead here. As for the physical body, that gift from the lizard, that 3d existence in this sts environment I say, give back to Cesar what belong to Cesar.

 

[3DStudent]

Hmm, I think I could be going into wishful thinking and justification, but maybe acquiring survival skills and buying extra stuff could be a good idea. You could teach people what you know and give the extra things to them.

It's been a sobering thought learning from this thread that survival isn't everything. That at some point it may be fine to give up the fight of the physical body. For me it seems I need a refocus, that I'm not just preparing only for myself. That it is to be useful to others, and thus the Universe. After all, what is a bunch of resources and knowledge if you just hoard it.

 

[obyvatel]

My thinking on this topic is similar to that of anart's. The degree to which the infrastructure collapses could determine to what degree the survivalist mentality would prevail. Growing up in a "developing" country, I can say that when food is scarce and resources limited, people are usually not inclined to be reasonable and spiritual. When "amygdala hijack" happens in relatively prosperous times, it can only get worse in a even more stress inducing situation for most people - osit. It could be possible that if such a situation persists for some length of time, people may start to cooperate again as that is a more viable long-term strategy, but civilization would have been set back by a long way. There are many possible scenarios. As for myself, I do not want to fight others to procure or protect food and if it comes down to that, I would rather want to kick the bucket - at least that is my current thinking. Till that time comes, I would try to help others by sharing what I have learnt.
Despite having played the role of a "good obyvatel" (as per my understanding), I have had a long-standing feeling since early childhood that I do not really want to be here and hence did not have a dread for death. Now my concern lies mainly for my young son for whom I feel the imperative to go on. As for others I help and support, I do so without a sense of strong attachment. I care for them but do not feel as responsible for their well-being as I used to earlier. Perhaps this is due to a lowered sense of self-importance - but I could be wrong. So earlier I would agree to
[quote author=ellipse]
What I want to say is: don't you think you will try to survive to help others and try to be the last one who die?
[/quote]
but now, I would say yes, I would help others as long as I exist but I will not try to be the last one standing.

 

[Lucius]

I just think there is a fine line here - and I personally have no intention of living in a world where I have to eat grubs to survive - nothing against the grubs, of course - or living in a world where I have to kill other human beings to protect 'my stash' of sustenance. I mean, this is just my personal opinion, but death is really no big deal.

This is true until you're alone, have no family, no friends or no one else to take care or simply to live with and help. More, do not eating grubs if it can let you survive is a kind of suicide I think.

Hmm, to have no family, no friends or no one else to help or take care of would mean you're basically the last human on earth - since there is always someone to help.

Yes, problem to express myself accurately.

What I want to say is: don't you think you will try to survive to help others and try to be the last one who die?

I was telling This same "there now I do not it represent me situation somehow when someone will ask me about food ... I to see one another starving person how will oneself with her to does not it divide ?" Here https://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=21375.msg228128#msg228128

And also I think that you can take money from the system and buy needed stuff not for Survival but for LEARNING knowledge protect, You can learn very fun things as:
- making good healthy meat
- making meat in jar
- start making garden
- start going out - survival
- start learning about human body
Aa C's says It is don't matter Where you are but Who you are and what you see
then even making "needed" stuff as food you can See what is going on.
But when starving people will ask for food you just cant don't give them food... you "must" share.

Better is prepare for EE, Detox, Learn all lesson that you must learn, don't try by STS or STO just BE yourself and chose lesson dependence what you SEE.

Do what you fell to do but only if it is Trully Your not program:
- survival
- "I want to live"
- "huh there will be hungry i MUST to stock pit food"
- "Buy gold, buy gun"
- "quit job - because there is end of the System"

In my opinion all above and more programs ale bad, you are Here in this position to Learn Some centrally lesson - and if you do with your Hinger Self , you will know what to do when time will come No matter where you are and who you are.

 

[Ellipse]

To me, at least, it showed that be obsessed with survival from an attack is not what is really important. What is important is that once the attack is over, there is someone there who can help the people who remain in a spiritual and emotional way. To help them see light in the darkness. To help them live again.

As has been said in many places here on the forum, your intent is what is really important. Do you want to survive just for survival's sake? Or are you more concerned with the welfare of others who will remain after all is said and done?

fwiw

and

Hmm, I think I could be going into wishful thinking and justification, but maybe acquiring survival skills and buying extra stuff could be a good idea. You could teach people what you know and give the extra things to them.

It's been a sobering thought learning from this thread that survival isn't everything. That at some point it may be fine to give up the fight of the physical body. For me it seems I need a refocus, that I'm not just preparing only for myself. That it is to be useful to others, and thus the Universe. After all, what is a bunch of resources and knowledge if you just hoard it.

I totally agree.

Except that "to give up the fight of the physical body" is not as easy as telling it because:
1/ we have profound survival mechanisms inside us
2/ at present I see this as suicide and so a way to avoid tests

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Seem we can buy it in Europe due to legislation. There's an interesting (French) thread here: http://www.forums.supertoinette.com/recettes_431594.bocaux_sterilises_et_botulisme.html . Someone explain why a sterilizer is enough in his opinion.

I don't really know what to think anymore: why is an autoclave reserved to the industry in Europe and so widespread in the US/Canada? I read about people using a simple, no pressure canner to sterilize pâté, etc. but they usually eat them quite fast (within a few months), so I don't know how it compares to long-time canning with pressure. On the other hand, there IS a risk of botulism if the pressure cannot be sustained for several hours at 115 C°, no?

In the beginning of this thread, Laura said she had ordered a pressure canner/cooker, so I understood that it was an autoclave and thought it was the way to go. On the blog I was referring to earlier in this thread, he compares non-pressure canning with pressure canning and says he does not understand why it is barely differentiated in France, where they have more botulism cases than in Canada. But he does not say if a simple pressure cooker (thus not an autoclave) would do the trick.

 

[Ollie]

Just a while ago, I watched the movie The Secret of Kells. What a beautiful story! I think that it depicted, very well, what is being talked about here. To me, at least, it showed that be obsessed with survival from an attack is not what is really important. What is important is that once the attack is over, there is someone there who can help the people who remain in a spiritual and emotional way. To help them see light in the darkness. To help them live again.

As has been said in many places here on the forum, your intent is what is really important. Do you want to survive just for survival's sake? Or are you more concerned with the welfare of others who will remain after all is said and done?

fwiw

Thank you for that post Nienna Eluch, it was well put.

I have yet to view that movie, may be a good idea to do so, thanks.

 

[Mikey]

But he does not say if a simple pressure cooker (thus not an autoclave) would do the trick.

I think there is no real difference between an autoclave and a pressure cooker. Both can sustain pressure so that the temperature inside can rise above 100°C. I understand that autoclaves are bigger and therefore industrial, while pressure cookers are smaller and designed just for a handful of veggies.

Not the pressure is what kills bacteria, but a combination of temperature, time of exposure to temperature, pH value, salt conentration and natural antibiotics (like garlic). You can achieve high sterility even at 100°C if the duration is long enough. Absolute sterilization is impossible even at higher temperatures, you're just reducing the chance that a jar will be spoilt.

I've read a short book about perservation in glass jars. After the two World Wars over 90% of all European families knew, managed and performed this process. I guess no one of them ever had a pressure cooker, because my grandmother had their first pressure cooker way later (in the 60s). Most of them just had huge dedicated pots with an integrated thermometer.

The book I have even doesn't advise to use pressure cookers since the process is more difficult to handle. The heat can be too fast, not reaching the inner core of the foods. And you need long periods of cooling down, since when you restore normal pressure too quickly, the foods might start to boil again, making the seal leak.

I did both options: normal pressure and under pressure, both with good results.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Thanks for sharing this, Data.

Most of them just had huge dedicated pots with an integrated thermometer.

Yes, that's the one my mother has. She says my stepfather makes canned paté in it all the time (he's a hunter) and never had any problem, even though it's not canned under pressure.
I'm going to see for a pressure cooker instead of buying an autoclave overseas, it will far less expensive.

Thanks! :)

 

[Ellipse]

Seem we can buy it in Europe due to legislation. There's an interesting (French) thread here: http://www.forums.supertoinette.com/recettes_431594.bocaux_sterilises_et_botulisme.html . Someone explain why a sterilizer is enough in his opinion.

I was tired yesterday evening, the right sentence is "Seem we can't buy it in Europe due to legislation." of course.


[quote author=Mrs.Tigersoap] I don't really know what to think anymore[/quote]

About autoclave/sterilizer I'm always a bit confuse too. It seem that only acid fruit can be used with the sterilizer, and vegetables need the autoclave:
(fr) http://www.forums.supertoinette.com/recettes_233186.temps_de_conservation_des_bocaux_maison_et_pot.html

About conservation duration here they talk about 2,3 years: (fr) http://www.forums.supertoinette.com/recettes_233186.temps_de_conservation_des_bocaux_maison_et_pot.html, here about 12 months: (fr) http://www.recettes-zen.com/Les%20_conserves.html

I think their's a difference about the duration of conservation between, fruits, vegetable and paté.

Thanks for your input Data.

 

[RyanX]

hmm I was working and I think over taking credit for the preparation? Now I bought all the necessary things - the repayment would have been so low that hardly would be felt as a loan for 9 years. :) What do you think about this approach?

without a loan also will manage to buy things you need but it will take me 15 months
where food prices might be too high?

Lukas,

What sort of foods are you going to buy on credit? If it is anything perishable or needing to be used by a certain date, it might help to come up with a usage plan so you can rotate stock and use up foods before they go bad. Also, what sort of variety have you planned? You want to make sure you have enough variety of whatever you're buying or preparing stored away to keep your diet interesting. You don't want to get into a situation where you end up leaving something sit too long and spoil. Then you're stuck having to buy more food while paying off any remaining balance/interest on whatever food has gone bad.

Maybe it would be best to start off with some smaller quantities - like say a month's worth - and seeing how well you can survive on that. Then if that works, you can buy some large quantity on credit and proceed with the plan.

 

[Lucius]

hmm I was working and I think over taking credit for the preparation? Now I bought all the necessary things - the repayment would have been so low that hardly would be felt as a loan for 9 years. :) What do you think about this approach?

without a loan also will manage to buy things you need but it will take me 15 months
where food prices might be too high?

Lukas,

What sort of foods are you going to buy on credit? If it is anything perishable or needing to be used by a certain date, it might help to come up with a usage plan so you can rotate stock and use up foods before they go bad. Also, what sort of variety have you planned? You want to make sure you have enough variety of whatever you're buying or preparing stored away to keep your diet interesting. You don't want to get into a situation where you end up leaving something sit too long and spoil. Then you're stuck having to buy more food while paying off any remaining balance/interest on whatever food has gone bad.

Maybe it would be best to start off with some smaller quantities - like say a month's worth - and seeing how well you can survive on that. Then if that works, you can buy some large quantity on credit and proceed with the plan.

at this point i'm 1,5 month ad detox, and testing new healthy food .

for credit i want to buy:
- Excalibur-Dehydrator
- Pro-2300 Vacuum Sealer
- lots of bags
- lots of jar ( it is cheaper to buy more )
- big amount of supplement ( for myprotein )

thus I could right now buy more buckwheat and go with Vacuum sealer - without credit I will get Pro-2300 about 3 month from now ;] and I don't know If it will be to late... for good prize.. for food.


with food I dont have problem i'm rotating detox diet:) and is Very good.
Just love bacon and buckwheat (I have plenty of recipes for healthy cooking buckwheat)

At this poing I have boung 50 jars DZK 500 that are the best for meat in jars.
I'm learning how to make (healthy) meat in jars, lots of recipes.
And How to make Long termin food it is fun :) You can have fun making IT:) and if someone like it that is best thing ^^.

 

[agni]

I think fear (realized or not), is a major driver for survivalists of any degree. IMHO, "unprepared human" can not quite counter R-complex in reasonable & humane way that can be beneficial to survival of society as a whole. I've seen many quite sane people turn into some obsessive eye glowing irrationals when subject of survival is just only brought up. I can only imagine how they going to look/do when/if things to happen.

Perhaps I miss something, but why is it so important for human race to survive ? From looking at the mankind, I am not so sure if Universe is going to loose much if human race disappears one of those days. I mean, big deal. What's so important about us (humans) and our contribution (if any) to life itself ?

 

[RyanX]

at this point i'm 1,5 month ad detox, and testing new healthy food .

for credit i want to buy:
- Excalibur-Dehydrator
- Pro-2300 Vacuum Sealer
- lots of bags
- lots of jar ( it is cheaper to buy more )
- big amount of supplement ( for myprotein )

thus I could right now buy more buckwheat and go with Vacuum sealer - without credit I will get Pro-2300 about 3 month from now ;] and I don't know If it will be to late... for good prize.. for food.


with food I dont have problem i'm rotating detox diet:) and is Very good.
Just love bacon and buckwheat (I have plenty of recipes for healthy cooking buckwheat)

At this poing I have boung 50 jars DZK 500 that are the best for meat in jars.
I'm learning how to make (healthy) meat in jars, lots of recipes.
And How to make Long termin food it is fun :) You can have fun making IT:) and if someone like it that is best thing ^^.

Lukas,

It sounds like you've given this quite a bit of thought.

One thing to consider, and maybe you already have, is if you have the space in your home, buying a chest freezer might be a better alternative for meat than canning and drying. From the looks of prices, it will probably cost around $600, give or take, to purchase the dehydrator and sealer. Whereas a 14CU ft chest freezer, for instance, would probably cost about half of that price. Maybe you don't have space for a freezer or live in an area where reliable electricity is a problem. In that case the dehydrator, sealer combo may be the way to go. You'd have to factor in what it would cost, in terms of electricity, to keep the freezer running year round, so that might be another consideration.

Also, I'm not sure if you implied that you were going to use the seal bags for buckwheat or not. For buckwheat or any other pseudo-grains, I use a food-grade 6 gal bucket with a gamma seal lid. That works plenty well, I think.