Putin giving away free land in the Far East?

[Cosmos]

[...]
I could be wrong but heard that corruption is very rampant there.
[...]

That is an important point. Although russia has a great leadership in moskau, it is the biggest country on earth with a lot of local interregnum. Putin and staff are doing there best to get that under control, but that takes time in such a huge country. It would be false to believe that just because there is a great leadership in moskau, that everything is fine and dandy everywhere in russia. Russia is certainly no imaginary paradise. Putin himself recently pilloried the following:

"Huge violations of human rights in russia":

http://en.news-4-u.ru/chaika-reported-about-3-2-million-violations-of-constitutional-human-rights-in-russia-putin-called-it-a-huge.html

Putin and staff have done their best over the last 15 years to bring that down and actually have done a pretty darn good job in that respect, considering what they are faced with. But as one can see, that project is far from being completed, which is no wonder in such a big country in which curruption, violence and human right abuses where part of normal live for a long time before Putin came into power.

Having said that, I still think that one is far better of getting land there, as opposed to western states under the rule of psychopaths.

 

[Gaby]

Well, I did some checking and apparently what I wrote in the previous post isn't relevant anymore, because they did corrections to the law and foreigners aren't allowed to participate in the program anyway. Only Russian citizens and those who were born in what is now Russia as part of the governmental supportive program of returning to the motherland.

I'm still eligible!

Sometimes it makes me wonder, my ancestors used to live there and were deported from there to the former Soviet Union countries in the Middle East during Stalin times. The ancestors thrived in the Far East at that time, and even had their own radio channel, schools, journals, etc. Funny that this land opportunity comes some 80 years later.

http://<iframe width="560" height="...yU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Looks beautiful!

 

[Keit]

Looks beautiful!

Yes, but it looks like this kind of project is far from being easy, especially when most of the divided land was either never in use (agricultural or other), or it was a long time ago. Apparently there are also many who question this program and say that it is no more than a marketing trick, because if people really wanted to open business in the area, they could do it a long time ago and with much less hardship.

But I think that many probably see it as a wake up call or an opportunity to change their lives. I also doubt that this program is really going to take off. Or perhaps many will reserve land portions, but only some of them will actually do something with it. But it looks like it is still very appealing to many, perhaps on a psychological or visceral level.

As for the corruption, yes, it is a virus that permeates all levels of Russian society. We could see it during the recent Q&A session with Putin, when people from the fish factory on Sakhalin talked how they didn't receive salary for months and were practically held hostage there.

What is good about this particular program, that it gets official governmental support, and probably also overseeing. Too many people are interested in it for various reasons. On the other hand, many people don't want it to succeed either. In any case, it seems like before even thinking about asking for a land there, there is a need to have at least one solid business plan. If the plan is good enough, than it can get governmental funding too.

 

[Gaby]

But it looks like it is still very appealing to many, perhaps on a psychological or visceral level.

I agree. I think the government said that similar programs have worked in the past, although I don't know the track record for sure. I know that the Koreans thrived in the Far East, but then, they were all deported due to political reasons of that particular time (1930s).

There are also other parts of Russia that are very appealing, like the middle or Baikal region. Here is an interesting documentary that shows a fresh view on some people's lifestyle in the Yenisei river.

http://<iframe width="853" height="...LX" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[ng.kock.leong]

Hi, you could start here, where all the chapters of the wave series are available:

Wave Series

or just have a look generally around Lauras material:

Cassiopaea.org

Hihi thanks Gawan, will have a look :)

 

[ng.kock.leong]

I should have been clearer: I was acknowledging that your idea was a good one, but not necessarily including you in it since we don't have a clue who you are.

Hihi Laura, that's sound fair and practical :)

There's a chinese proverb with the meaning "Cautiousness will enable you to steer even an centuries old ship" (小心駛得萬年船)

 

[ng.kock.leong]

Tempting idea,though I know that I'll too pre-occupied at least for the next 4 or so years.But for those of you decide on going there,make sure you have a team with diverse skills.Plumbing,medicine,hunting etc.You'll also need to know yourself fairly well,how tough are you?Can you work with a broken finger,how well do you handle frigid temperature,can you really give up all the modern luxuries that our soft bodies are used to.Imagine not being able to shower and having to prepare a bath an hour ahead,depending on your setup.How will you get rid of trash etc.The practical aspect seems like a huge undertaking imo.

Agreed... Though I feel that you shall call yourself foresight man instead...

Btw, I read that for the previous scheme for Siberia (I believe Far East is also considered Siberia), many Russian gave up and returned...

Also, I read that many Russian men (probably myth only) become alcoholic probably due to hardship/boredom.

 

[ng.kock.leong]

Actually, it's the other way around. The locals wanted to do a referendum regarding this new proposal (the government declined their request), because they are afraid that all kind of shady sources will use the land to search and excavate minerals and other resources. There are only specific regions that you can use for agriculture (since it is so cold there), and the rest are suitable either for building or reindeer/fluffy cows farms. Or for some other creative ideas.

Besides, if you are not willing to work hard during the first 5 years, what's the point of taking the land and going there anyway? This region is largely or completely cut off from any sort of infrastructure. And actually the land itself is very cheap there anyway, even in regions that are more closer to civilization. Meaning, there is no need to participate in the program in order to buy land dirt cheap.

Another thing to consider is that if you are a foreigner it is best to show the country you want to live in that you respect its laws and customs, especially when locals already weary of "outsiders" trying to use the situation. And trying to do "the bare minimum" in order to use the system to your advantage doesn't send the right message. ;) It doesn't provide any incentive to the authorities to be forthcoming, and also doesn't help with building ties with the rest of the local community. osit.

Hmm, true... That's hard to balance then...

What if you invest in all your money and when 5 years is up, they seized back the land (excuses can be cooked)? Or require lots of money to grease their palms?

Also, in theory, I believe Russia don't allow dual citizenship in theory and there is no backing of your former country to fight for your rights.

 

[ng.kock.leong]

Well, I did some checking and apparently what I wrote in the previous post isn't relevant anymore, because they did corrections to the law and foreigners aren't allowed to participate in the program anyway. Only Russian citizens and those who were born in what is now Russia as part of the governmental supportive program of returning to the motherland.

Apparently around 30 million Russians expressed interest in the program, most of them of young age. There are various limitations to the program, such as: you can't buy land near cities or natural reserves, and you must use all the land for any purpose, otherwise after 5 years it will be taken from you. And there are some regulations regarding removing trees or damaging the forest and such.

There is a site in Russian where any Russian citizen within 15 minutes can choose their land and send a request. Even children younger than 18 years old can reserve their land. Until 1 of February, 2017 there is a priority for citizens of Far East.

The program is valid until 1 of January, 2035.

One important note that the program allows for several people (not necessarily family) to get together and get land for mutual purpose. Not sure if it means only one hectare or several, but it's good that they offer it non the less.

The rest of the process is being done online too. Here's a video that explains it. It's in Russian.

http://<iframe width="560" height="...yU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hihi Keit, thanks for the updates :)

Go go, Russian, make the whole idea work... The land and future belong to you :D

 

[ng.kock.leong]

That is an important point. Although russia has a great leadership in moskau, it is the biggest country on earth with a lot of local interregnum. Putin and staff are doing there best to get that under control, but that takes time in such a huge country. It would be false to believe that just because there is a great leadership in moskau, that everything is fine and dandy everywhere in russia. Russia is certainly no imaginary paradise. Putin himself recently pilloried the following:

"Huge violations of human rights in russia":

http://en.news-4-u.ru/chaika-reported-about-3-2-million-violations-of-constitutional-human-rights-in-russia-putin-called-it-a-huge.html

Putin and staff have done their best over the last 15 years to bring that down and actually have done a pretty darn good job in that respect, considering what they are faced with. But as one can see, that project is far from being completed, which is no wonder in such a big country in which curruption, violence and human right abuses where part of normal live for a long time before Putin came into power.

Having said that, I still think that one is far better of getting land there, as opposed to western states under the rule of psychopaths.

Yap, that needs time and perseverance...

Sorry I'm not too familiar with Putin but on the whole, based on my limited knowledge, I feel that he is a good leader.

Although many of my friends might disagree.

 

[ng.kock.leong]

What is good about this particular program, that it gets official governmental support, and probably also overseeing. Too many people are interested in it for various reasons. On the other hand, many people don't want it to succeed either. In any case, it seems like before even thinking about asking for a land there, there is a need to have at least one solid business plan. If the plan is good enough, than it can get governmental funding too.

Why they don't want it to succeed? It will bring wealth and better quality of life if successful.
Are the people opposing it because they don't get to profit from it?
If so, well done, Putin... The country, it's people (together with you and your family) first...

Why not get funding from Russian businessman? Maybe 49% share go to the businessman (not too sure if they will be agreeable as that means giving up control of the business).
As the country has too much expenses, if need to allocate budget for this, it will mean that money had to be obtained from elsewhere... (Taxes, reduction in other areas etc)

 

[ng.kock.leong]

Please ignore my ignorant reference to getting Russian business to invest...

Because if I'm the businessman, I will probably not invest in it as
1. There is no existing infrastructure there
2. The returns if successful might not be impressive to account for taking the risk of losing the money when the investment fails.

 

[whitecoast]

It sounds like an interesting idea to settle in the Siberian wilderness, but a part of me wonders if it will remain viable if/when western relations with Russia deteriorate further. If, God forbid, outright war breaks out (or even if diplomatic ties get cut) it will probably be very difficult for someone from a NATO country to obtain such a grant or entrance visa. Mind you, I'm not sure what specifically the government would worry about, if people are just opting to settle and work land way out in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Keit]

Why they don't want it to succeed? It will bring wealth and better quality of life if successful.
Are the people opposing it because they don't get to profit from it?
If so, well done, Putin... The country, it's people (together with you and your family) first...

Local people, especially in Yakutia, don't like the idea because they are afraid that this way their way of life and their habitat will be destroyed. Their land is totally covered by permafrost and there is not much agriculture you can do there, only perhaps reindeer farms and other related things. There could be resources and minerals, but the program excludes selling lands that have valuable resources. But they are mainly worried about the disturbance to their way of life, which is understandable.

And, yes, at this point it looks like they don't want for foreigners to use the situation to their advantage, especially since Putin was against this idea. Also the program explicitly prohibits transferring or giving this land as a gift to foreigners after 5 years. So it seems like they are mainly interested in developing this region by and for Russian citizens. I do wonder if it would be possible for Russian citizens to buy land, register and create a business, and then invite foreigners to work there with work visa.

 

[ng.kock.leong]

Local people, especially in Yakutia, don't like the idea because they are afraid that this way their way of life and their habitat will be destroyed. Their land is totally covered by permafrost and there is not much agriculture you can do there, only perhaps reindeer farms and other related things. There could be resources and minerals, but the program excludes selling lands that have valuable resources. But they are mainly worried about the disturbance to their way of life, which is understandable.

And, yes, at this point it looks like they don't want for foreigners to use the situation to their advantage, especially since Putin was against this idea. Also the program explicitly prohibits transferring or giving this land as a gift to foreigners after 5 years. So it seems like they are mainly interested in developing this region by and for Russian citizens. I do wonder if it would be possible for Russian citizens to buy land, register and create a business, and then invite foreigners to work there with work visa.

Oh I see now...

Then he is right not to let foreigner join the program...
Also, the migrant there must not be too hasty (which for a business, it is not possible)...
They shall do things slowly so that can convince the locals there that it will not be as disruptive as they originally thought...

I think shalln't be a issue right?... Eg giving China chinese work visa to work there as cheap labour
Although I read that one of the reason (I could be wrong) that he is starting this initiative is so that the people of Far East will not feel that they are part of China and thus been annexed by China (as in the case of Crimea).
If so, maybe he might not be so comfortable letting in more Chinese.