Can a @mod please delete my last reply to "Youlik". The editor did close for some reason before i finished the posting. My complete response is below:
Excerpt from the report of I. V. Stalin at the solemn meeting of the Moscow Council of Workers' Deputies with party and public organizations of Moscow on November 6, 1941. [..]
I'm sorry about that. I Attributed to Hitler the words spoken by Goering
First i would need a source for this citation. The only source you link under it is an Wikipedia entry for the
"Barbarossa decree". The text with the quotations allegedly coming from Hitler and Goebels has no valid source given. And excuse me if i have a hard time believing anything Stalin said at a Moscow "Council of Workers" meeting.
I'm sorry about that. I Attributed to Hitler the words spoken by Goering. A very principled substitution, however, he also said enough.
If words are not enough, I cite a link to the official orders of the Wehrmacht General Staff on the same topic, recognized by the Nuremberg Tribunal as criminal.
Приказ «О применении военной подсудности в районе Барбаросса» — Википедия
This is the link in Russian for the "Barbarossa directive". I dont see any sources for, example citation: "everyone who is against us, kill, kill, you are not responsible for this, but I am, so kill!"
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Приказ_«О_применении_военной_подсудности_в_районе_Барбаросса»
Here, again, I apologize, there was a machine translation error. Instead of the word anticipate in the sense of prediction, it is necessary to use the word forestal in the sense of do earlier. We must pay tribute to Pilsudski, although he was ahead of the fascists in organizing concentration camp, he was still not the inventor of such forms. Here the primacy belongs, as I see it, to the British during the Anglo-Boer War.
Asking "how they could know about conentration camps in 1941" aims at the fact that what today is understood as "german concentration camp" hasnt existed until after the war. Russian soldiers would not be moved into concentration camps (maybe there had been exceptions) but used as work force. A lot of them happy to meet the fate of a forced worker in germany, with food, instead of being a russian soldier without food and shot in the back by his russian poltical officiers.
As for the soldiers of the Red Army who happily surrender to the Fascist captivity, you are right here - there were such and there were many of them. The Germans formed a whole army of them. The Russian Liberation Army it was called. We called them Vlasovtsy by the name of the commander, by the way, a former lieutenant general of the Red Army. This name, Vlasovtsy, has become a household name and a synonym for traitors to the motherland, along with Bandera, whose heirs are now, at the moment, resisting the forces of the DPR, LPR and the Russian army in Ukraine.
Yeah, i did hear the name "Bandera" a couple of times during the last 2 days.
Here again there is a misunderstanding. Speaking about the myth, I did not mean the absence of this event as a fact. I do not dispute with the fast as such, the Prosecutor General's Office has recognized it in our country. However, I realized that you didn't read the article. It notes a certain number of inconsistencies, which makes it possible to doubt the thoroughness of documenting the facts.
Could you give me the link again?
I don't understand your statement about typicality. Are you really full of fairy tales about bloodthirsty Russians who devoured all the children alive and -flicked- all living things on the territory of unhappy Europe? If that's the case, then you and I have nothing to talk about at all.
Well, i could say the same about you and "Bloodthirsty Germans". See, this is (recent) history and i can assure you that i dont have "any beef" with russians. On the contrary. With "typical" i mean that a lot of false evidence/propaganda had been created during, but more so after WW2.
With germany having no chance of defending itself as mainly Russia and the US had and still have (!) most relevant german documents in their possession. "A lot" of them still disclosed (!) and probably a lot of them long time destroyed, as neither the americans nor the russians wants "the truth" to be exposed. Even 77 years after the war ended.
Here, in my opinion, there is a whole series of substitutions.
Firstly, I do not know what text you are familiar with, the text that is published here does not say a single word about what you are talking about. Below I will translate for you the full text of the article, known to us, and you will show me with your finger in which place it says about ALL Germans, not "only" soldiers and raping all woman as you say.
I did research again and some persons state that the version of the flyer where "Ilya Ehrenburg" ordered "to take the pride of the german woman" would be a german fake. Yet i havent seen any proof for this. I did read reports from german soldiers that while russian forces entered germany the "Ilya Ehrenburg Flyer" "Kill" had been thrown down on russian troops. They report seeing them falling from the sky and picking them up. Which could hardly been done by germans as germany had lost its control over its airspace years ago and especially during the last days there had been hardly any german planes in the air. And i doubt that regular german soldiers made this up.
This here sums up the roots of russian propaganda of the likes of an "Ehrenburg", translation from the
german wikipedia entry for "Ilya Ehrenburg", citation:
"Especially in the first year and a half of the war, up to the Battle of Stalingrad, his lyrics were extremely emotionally charged - they aimed to stir up the hatred he felt was necessary to persevere. The huge human and territorial losses suffered by the Soviet Union in the early months of the German invasion in 1941 had a demoralizing effect on the Red Army. And the concept of fascism represented in Soviet propaganda, according to which National Socialism appeared solely as a project of finance capital and by no means the mass of the population, had created an unrealistic image of the Wehrmacht among many Red Army soldiers. The idea that the ordinary soldiers of the Wehrmacht would side with the Russian revolution in a war was widespread.[62] [..] In this desperate situation, Soviet writers and propagandists, from Alexei Tolstoy to Mikhail Sholokhov and Konstantin Simonov to Ehrenburg, saw the slogan of hatred of the German invaders as the only way to strengthen the fighting power of the troops. [..]
Ehrenburg's texts often contained animal metaphors for the German invaders: There was talk of "rabid wolves", "reptiles" and "scorpions". At the same time, his gaze was directed at a specific figure that he by no means described as animalistic: the educated German SS man or officer who methodically and systematically tortured and murdered the Russian and especially the Jewish population, the "fascist soldier who made bloodthirsty, fanatical nonsense about his racial superiority in his exquisite pen in his pretty little book, shamelessly cruel things that would have horrified any savage."
Now for "Ehrenburgs Flyer". Thats a "can of worms". After about 4 hours of researching it again i must say that there seems to be no indisputable proof that the "Ilya Ehrenburg flyer" had been published und utilized during the invasion of germany. It is mentioned in various german books and newspapers, amongst them the
memoires of "Karl Doenitz", Admiral of the german "Kriegsmarine" which i, and most of his former enemies, hold in high esteem. But no, you are right, no indisputable proof.
Regarding the "trial of Nurnberg" you did mention: A show trial using eyewitness reports partly produced under torture and threat of death, not acceptance of various documents and eyewitness reports as well as obscure and brutal verdicts aimed at punishing former adverasies independent of any facts.
One might explain to me how the nuernberg "court" could punish german miliary personal for utilizing soldiers as "slave labor" when at the same time hundred of thousands of german soldiers had been sent to do slave work in Russia with 1/3 of them dying in gulags and 4 million (!) germans, amongst them civilians, also woman had been forced to do slave labor in europe.
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t.me
riseofthenewmedia.com
ua.usembassy.gov
